1750Hz tone in MCU 3.41 / DSP 2.37, 10-02-2009

[dj7mgq]

Hi Wayne and the list,

without having actually testing this:

> * EU REPEATER 1750 HZ PL TONE BURST: If a 1750 Hz
> PL TONE is selected, a 500 ms tone burst will be
> sent on each PTT activation.

This sounds wrong.

During a normal QSO the tone is only needed once. Here in DL the  
1750Hz tone is used to "turn a repeater on," and it stays active until  
it no longer detects an "incoming" signal for 10 seconds or so. In  
other words, transmitting the tone as a kind of inverse roger beep  
would be very irritating.

vy 73 de toby


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[wayne burdick]

Hi Toby,

We can modify the present behavior if required. Our EU field testers  
reported that it worked on all repeaters they tried it with.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Oct 6, 2009, at 11:51 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi Wayne and the list,
>
> without having actually testing this:
>
>> * EU REPEATER 1750 HZ PL TONE BURST: If a 1750 Hz
>> PL TONE is selected, a 500 ms tone burst will be
>> sent on each PTT activation.
>
> This sounds wrong.
>
> During a normal QSO the tone is only needed once. Here in DL the  
> 1750Hz tone is used to "turn a repeater on," and it stays active  
> until it no longer detects an "incoming" signal for 10 seconds or  
> so. In other words, transmitting the tone as a kind of inverse roger  
> beep would be very irritating.
>
> vy 73 de toby

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Alexandr Kobranov]

Hello Wayne and the list!

Just idea about two future developments:

1) redisign this as for Roger-Beeb (at the end of transmit) for any
voice mode (FM, SSB) - maybe with some tone to choose (sometimes CW
"K" on higher wpm used also)

and

2) allow it (1750Hz tone) as a possible option for FM only as a
function of TUNE button (or other one button), just to use it when
needed without relation to PTT and permanent presence in TX signal

*of course, all switchable options for R-Beeb and FMrepeater friends
only ;-)*

Surely now implemented 1750Hz beep will start repeater here (if this
one is sensitive to this) so this is working for now - no doubts.

Many thanks for last f/w!
73!
L. -dst-
K3/10 #727


Wayne Burdick napsal(a):

> Hi Toby,
>
> We can modify the present behavior if required. Our EU field testers  
> reported that it worked on all repeaters they tried it with.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> On Oct 6, 2009, at 11:51 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> Hi Wayne and the list,
>>
>> without having actually testing this:
>>
>>> * EU REPEATER 1750 HZ PL TONE BURST: If a 1750 Hz
>>> PL TONE is selected, a 500 ms tone burst will be
>>> sent on each PTT activation.
>> This sounds wrong.
>>
>> During a normal QSO the tone is only needed once. Here in DL the  
>> 1750Hz tone is used to "turn a repeater on," and it stays active  
>> until it no longer detects an "incoming" signal for 10 seconds or  
>> so. In other words, transmitting the tone as a kind of inverse roger  
>> beep would be very irritating.
>>
>> vy 73 de toby
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[dj7mgq]

Hi Wayne & Co.,

like I said, my comment was based only upon your announcement and not  
on actual experience.

I am sure that it will work as implemented, but transmitting a 500ms  
beep every time one starts to transmit would be overkill. Generally FM  
rigs here have an extra button for transmitting the 1750Hz tone to  
activate the the repeater, which only needs to be done once per QSO -  
at least here in DL, this does vary a bit from country to country  
within Europe.

Take care & thanks for the newest software,

vy 73 de toby


Quoting Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>:

> Hi Toby,
>
> We can modify the present behavior if required. Our EU field testers
> reported that it worked on all repeaters they tried it with.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Julian, G4ILO]

Toby Deinhardt wrote

I am sure that it will work as implemented, but transmitting a 500ms  
beep every time one starts to transmit would be overkill. Generally FM  
rigs here have an extra button for transmitting the 1750Hz tone to  
activate the the repeater, which only needs to be done once per QSO -  
at least here in DL, this does vary a bit from country to country  
within Europe.

I was actually surprised to see this feature being implemented as the repeaters here only support 1750Hz toneburst for legacy reasons. In the UK repeaters now use CTCSS as the primary if not only method of access, and have done for years. But perhaps it is different elsewhere in Europe.

[wayne burdick]

We had more requests for this than any other FM/repeater-related  
change, so apparently there are lots of legacy repeaters still in use  
out there.

This revision of firmware includes two other requested changes for FM/
repeater use: adjustable PL tone deviation, and repeater/PL TONE  
update during channel scanning. The new "live" memory recall (M>V) is  
also useful with repeater channels.

73,
Wayne


On Oct 6, 2009, at 1:19 PM, Julian, G4ILO wrote:

>
>
> Toby Deinhardt wrote:
>>
>> I am sure that it will work as implemented, but transmitting a 500ms
>> beep every time one starts to transmit would be overkill. Generally  
>> FM
>> rigs here have an extra button for transmitting the 1750Hz tone to
>> activate the the repeater, which only needs to be done once per QSO -
>> at least here in DL, this does vary a bit from country to country
>> within Europe.
>>
> I was actually surprised to see this feature being implemented as the
> repeaters here only support 1750Hz toneburst for legacy reasons. In  
> the UK
> repeaters now use CTCSS as the primary if not only method of access,  
> and
> have done for years. But perhaps it is different elsewhere in Europe.
>
> -----
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
> * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
> * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/1750Hz-tone-in-MCU-3-41-DSP-2-37-10-02-2009-tp3777012p3777873.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[gm3sek]

toby wrote:
>
>I am sure that it will work as implemented, but transmitting a 500ms
>beep every time one starts to transmit would be overkill. Generally FM
>rigs here have an extra button for transmitting the 1750Hz tone to
>activate the the repeater

On the old Yaesu FT-221/225 series, the 1750Hz toneburst could be
activated when needed by simply double-clicking the PTT. It was very
easy and effective.

The function was only available - and only needed - when using FM with
repeater split.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[ww2r2]

Having had it tested it on a couple of UK repeaters, I found they require a
tone at the start of every transmission irrrespective of the gap between
transmissions; The present functionality is fine

Admittedly most have been accepting PL for many years now

Dave

G4FRE

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:51:47 +0200
From: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] 1750Hz tone in MCU 3.41 / DSP 2.37, 10-02-2009
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
        format="flowed"

Hi Wayne and the list,

without having actually testing this:

> * EU REPEATER 1750 HZ PL TONE BURST: If a 1750 Hz
> PL TONE is selected, a 500 ms tone burst will be
> sent on each PTT activation.

This sounds wrong.

During a normal QSO the tone is only needed once. Here in DL the
1750Hz tone is used to "turn a repeater on," and it stays active until
it no longer detects an "incoming" signal for 10 seconds or so. In
other words, transmitting the tone as a kind of inverse roger beep
would be very irritating.

vy 73 de toby


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[David Pratt]

In a recent message, Alexandr Kobranov <[hidden email]> writes
>1) redisign this as for Roger-Beeb (at the end of transmit) for any
>voice mode (FM, SSB) - maybe with some tone to choose (sometimes CW
>"K" on higher wpm used also)

Not necessary unless you are taking your K3 to Moon.

In any case, sending K on CW wouldn't do because many of today's phone
operators can't read Morse code anyway ;-(

73
--
David G4DMP
Leeds, England, UK




______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Jan Erik Holm]

PLEASE if you are going to keep this silly thing with a
toneburst at the start of every transmission at least
make it so that i can be switched off.
In Sweden this is not needed for repeater work, after
repeater been activated with 1750Hz it is carrier
operated.

/SM2EKM
-----------
ww2r2 wrote:

> Having had it tested it on a couple of UK repeaters, I found they require a
> tone at the start of every transmission irrrespective of the gap between
> transmissions; The present functionality is fine
>
> Admittedly most have been accepting PL for many years now
>
> Dave
>
> G4FRE
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:51:47 +0200
> From: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] 1750Hz tone in MCU 3.41 / DSP 2.37, 10-02-2009
> To: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
> format="flowed"
>
> Hi Wayne and the list,
>
> without having actually testing this:
>
>> * EU REPEATER 1750 HZ PL TONE BURST: If a 1750 Hz
>> PL TONE is selected, a 500 ms tone burst will be
>> sent on each PTT activation.
>
> This sounds wrong.
>
> During a normal QSO the tone is only needed once. Here in DL the
> 1750Hz tone is used to "turn a repeater on," and it stays active until
> it no longer detects an "incoming" signal for 10 seconds or so. In
> other words, transmitting the tone as a kind of inverse roger beep
> would be very irritating.
>
> vy 73 de toby
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[wayne burdick]

On my list.

tnx
Wayne
N6KR

Jan Erik Holm wrote:

> PLEASE ...make it so that [1750 Hz burst at start] can be switched  
> off.
> In Sweden this is not needed for repeater work, after
> repeater been activated with 1750Hz it is carrier
> operated.



______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[David Woolley (E.L)]

Wayne Burdick wrote:
> We had more
> requests for this than any other FM/repeater-related change, so
> apparently there are lots of legacy repeaters still in use out there.

That could be because:

- the use of tone burst in embedded in folk law and many people don't
realise it is no longer needed (rig instruction booklets probably
reinforce this); or even

- if you are driving long distances, on unfamiliar routes, stopping to
identify the right CTCSS frequency and program it in may be too much of
a hassle.



--
David Woolley
"we do not overly restrict the subject matter on the list, and we
encourage postings on a wide range of amateur radio related topics"
List Guidelines <http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm>
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Brendan Minish]

The logic here in EI is typically a 1750Hz tone is needed to 'wake up'
the repeater after a period of inactivity. once the repeater is open the
1750Hz tone is no longer required
if this is to be 'auto-magic' have it TX a 1750Hz tone IF, repeater
shift is on AND squelch is closed at the time of TX. If the squelch is
open then the repeater is already open and the Tone burst is not
required to wake it up.

Here in EI all repeaters support Tone burst access, many support CTSS
and some encode CTSS on their transmissions too (but only when the
repeater has it's squelch open, I.e no ctss on beacon IDENTs etc)

73
Brendan EI6IZ (Keeper of EI2TGR repeater )  

On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 21:52 -0700, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> On my list.
>
> tnx
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
> Jan Erik Holm wrote:
>
> > PLEASE ...make it so that [1750 Hz burst at start] can be switched  
> > off.
> > In Sweden this is not needed for repeater work, after
> > repeater been activated with 1750Hz it is carrier
> > operated.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html