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2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

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Phil Hystad-3

2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

Does anyone have the K3 2-meter option and use a solid-state linear amplifier?

If so, which one. Also, maybe some information on the best to worst in available 2-meter amplifiers as I have never looked into these before.

And, a friend suggested building my own 2-meter solid-state amplifier. Has anyone done this and maybe I can hear a little about that too.

Thanks for any comments.

73, phil, K7PEH

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Jim Brown-10

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

On 1/20/2013 9:53 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
> Does anyone have the K3 2-meter option and use a solid-state linear amplifier?

I've not done so with the Elecraft units, but I own several 2M power
brick amps, and studied the field before buying them. My understanding
is that of the moderate cost, medium power units (150 W output), the
original Mirage (before MFJ) and the RF Concepts units, which I had
heard had a common heritage, are the best. They were built with several
levels of drive requirement -- 10W, 35W, 50W, or something like that, as
I recall. Most, but not all, have built-in RX preamps.

> And, a friend suggested building my own 2-meter solid-state amplifier. Has anyone done this and maybe I can hear a little about that too.

I would STRONGLY suggest that you avoid that unless you're a REALLY good
RF design engineer with experience building stuff like that. i would
consider building a well engineered kit, but that's as close as i would
get to it. :)

73, Jim K9YC
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Sebastian, W4AS

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

Owning and having owned several VHF/UHF solid state brick amplifiers, I have the following to offer:

I have four Mirage brick amps right now. Two for 2 meters; one is a brown 10 in 80 watt output, and the other is a black 50 in 300 watt output amp.

I use those for EME and meteor scatter with my K3, and an XV144 transverter for 2 meters with a sequencer.

I also have a pair of black faced amps for 222 Mhz and 432 MHz, with the XV222 and XV432 transverters.

All have served me well for many years, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy them again.

Lots have been said about Mirage pre-MFJ units vs after MFJ units, but I personally haven't experienced any issues with those; although I have seen the 'quality' of other MFJ equipment.

I would however, say to stay clear of the TE Systems amps. They are very popular and I have owned both the 2 meter and 6 meter versions, but they can't be trusted, and I may be in the minority of this view.

The TE Systems amps have no protection for the following: high SWR, excessive input power, and temperature protection. They are 'supposed' to have high temperature protection, but the ones I had failed when it was too late. In addition, you won't find a schematic for the TE amps, and as a result, repairs and parts can be an issue.

There have been many times where my black faced Mirage amp has encountered a disconnected antenna, and it immediately goes into fault mode. The TE Systems amps will happily continue to provide full output, without an antenna connected, and I don't have to tell you what happens to it.

The TE Systems amps are usually advertised in the used market as being 400 watt units, but the ones I had would do at best 300-350 watts into a dummy load with a Bird watt meter.

Of all of those, I would say the built in preamps usually just add to the noise and don't help in most cases.

73 de Sebastian, W4AS

On Jan 20, 2013, at 2:10 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1/20/2013 9:53 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> Does anyone have the K3 2-meter option and use a solid-state linear amplifier?
>
> I've not done so with the Elecraft units, but I own several 2M power brick amps, and studied the field before buying them. My understanding is that of the moderate cost, medium power units (150 W output), the original Mirage (before MFJ) and the RF Concepts units, which I had heard had a common heritage, are the best. They were built with several levels of drive requirement -- 10W, 35W, 50W, or something like that, as I recall. Most, but not all, have built-in RX preamps.
>
>> And, a friend suggested building my own 2-meter solid-state amplifier. Has anyone done this and maybe I can hear a little about that too.
>
> I would STRONGLY suggest that you avoid that unless you're a REALLY good RF design engineer with experience building stuff like that. i would consider building a well engineered kit, but that's as close as i would get to it. :)
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

Jim Brown-10

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

On 1/20/2013 11:35 AM, Sebastian, W4AS wrote:
> I would however, say to stay clear of the TE Systems amps.

My "word of mouth" advice (dating from my time in Chicago) agrees with
this. Rather unreliable, for the reasons noted.

73, Jim K9YC

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N5GE

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

If I were new to the use of solid state VHF/UHF amps I would make
sure I bought amps with protection for SWR and overdrive mistakes.

I use TE Systems amps with the K3 and XV432 in the shack, but as
others have said, be careful with any amps that have no protection
circuits. The cost of repair (if not done by you) can be as
expensive as a new amp with the protection circuits.

I think Mirage amps are good amps, but haven't had one since MFJ
began manufacturing them.

On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:53:34 -0800, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>Does anyone have the K3 2-meter option and use a solid-state linear amplifier?
>
>If so, which one. Also, maybe some information on the best to worst in available 2-meter amplifiers as I have never looked into these before.
>
>And, a friend suggested building my own 2-meter solid-state amplifier. Has anyone done this and maybe I can hear a little about that too.
>
>Thanks for any comments.
>
>73, phil, K7PEH
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

Phil Hystad-3

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

Tom,

Right. I would never buy a solid-state amp without full high-SWR protection built in. I am not close to making any decisions though as I do not even own the 2-meter K3 option yet though it is on my to-buy list. A number of details need to be resolved. One is a good high-gain 2-meter antenna which I am also researching. The other is the solid-state amplifier.

I am in no rush -- I like to collect gobs of information first. I doubt that I will be spending money before this summer. I am going to catch three big northwest hamfests first looking primarily for a good antenna and then maybe an amp but I would likely buy the amp new unless I found one in absolutely pristine condition.

73, phil, K7PEH

On Jan 20, 2013, at 4:00 PM, Tom H Childers <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> If I were new to the use of solid state VHF/UHF amps I would make
> sure I bought amps with protection for SWR and overdrive mistakes.
>
> I use TE Systems amps with the K3 and XV432 in the shack, but as
> others have said, be careful with any amps that have no protection
> circuits. The cost of repair (if not done by you) can be as
> expensive as a new amp with the protection circuits.
>
> I think Mirage amps are good amps, but haven't had one since MFJ
> began manufacturing them.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:53:34 -0800, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have the K3 2-meter option and use a solid-state linear amplifier?
>>
>> If so, which one. Also, maybe some information on the best to worst in available 2-meter amplifiers as I have never looked into these before.
>>
>> And, a friend suggested building my own 2-meter solid-state amplifier. Has anyone done this and maybe I can hear a little about that too.
>>
>> Thanks for any comments.
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 73,
> Tom
> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
> ARRL Lifetime Member
> QCWA Lifetime Member
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Mel

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

In reply to this post by N5GE

As one that has designed and manufactured SS HF, VHF, and UHF amplifiers, the world in the last 15 years has evolved with many new devices that are really bullet proof. However, I have not seen any on the market with the new Freescale devices. I have designed and built several from 13 to 450 MHz for industrial use in the 100 to 500 watt class. If you decide to build your own, look up Freescale the gain these devices have is incredible. They have a wealth of application information and evaluation PCB's available. FWIW. Cheers,

Mel, K6KBE

--- On Sun, 1/20/13, Tom H Childers <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Tom H Childers <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option
To: "[hidden email] List" <[hidden email]>
Date: Sunday, January 20, 2013, 4:00 PM

If I were new to the use of solid state VHF/UHF amps I would make
sure I bought amps with protection for SWR and overdrive mistakes.

I use TE Systems amps with the K3 and XV432 in the shack, but as
others have said, be careful with any amps that have no protection
circuits. The cost of repair (if not done by you) can be as
expensive as a new amp with the protection circuits.

I think Mirage amps are good amps, but haven't had one since MFJ
began manufacturing them.

On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:53:34 -0800, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]>
wrote:

73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

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W7GJ, Lance

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

I also am anxious to get the internal 2m option for my K3. I have to wait until i
return from Clipperton in March though, since my K3 has already been shipped. I
also am hand carrying my KX3 down there with me, so I will have two rigs for 6m.

I have a Mirage 2m "brick" that has taken a lot of abuse over the years. I also am
sure you would have success with a TE SYSTEMS amp because the K3 does not put out the
notorious power spikes like most of the ICOM rigs. I use a TE SYSTEMS amp with my K3
on 6m, and it works great. If you are looking for some more power that uses the
Freescale transistors, I suggest taking a look at the M2 2m amp.

http://www.m2inc.com/pdf_manuals/2M-1K2%20SPECIFICATIONS.pdf

I use their 6m amp on my 6m EME DXpeditions, and had it modified so I could drive it
to maximum output with under 3w so I could use it with either my K3 or KX3 when I am
on DXpeditions. I am taking this amp with me to Clipperton to use a backup to the
Alpha 8406.

The problem with the new high gain solid state amplifiers is that the FCC doesn't
currently permit 1kw output with a few watts drive, although it certainly is easily
obtained with the new solid state components. So if you are operating in the USA,
you would have to make the modifications yourself for low drive directly from the K3.

GL and VY 73, Lance

On 1/21/2013 12:30 AM, Mel Farrer wrote:

> As one that has designed and manufactured SS HF, VHF, and UHF amplifiers, the world in the last 15 years has evolved with many new devices that are really bullet proof. However, I have not seen any on the market with the new Freescale devices. I have designed and built several from 13 to 450 MHz for industrial use in the 100 to 500 watt class. If you decide to build your own, look up Freescale the gain these devices have is incredible. They have a wealth of application information and evaluation PCB's available. FWIW. Cheers,
>
> Mel, K6KBE
>
> --- On Sun, 1/20/13, Tom H Childers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> From: Tom H Childers <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option
> To: "[hidden email] List" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sunday, January 20, 2013, 4:00 PM
>
>
>
> If I were new to the use of solid state VHF/UHF amps I would make
> sure I bought amps with protection for SWR and overdrive mistakes.
>
> I use TE Systems amps with the K3 and XV432 in the shack, but as
> others have said, be careful with any amps that have no protection
> circuits. The cost of repair (if not done by you) can be as
> expensive as a new amp with the protection circuits.
>
> I think Mirage amps are good amps, but haven't had one since MFJ
> began manufacturing them.
>
>
>
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:53:34 -0800, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have the K3 2-meter option and use a solid-state linear amplifier?
>>
>> If so, which one. Also, maybe some information on the best to worst in available 2-meter amplifiers as I have never looked into these before.
>>
>> And, a friend suggested building my own 2-meter solid-state amplifier. Has anyone done this and maybe I can hear a little about that too.
>>
>> Thanks for any comments.
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 73,
> Tom
> Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
> ARRL Lifetime Member
> QCWA Lifetime Member
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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--
Lance Collister, W7GJ
(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073
USA
TEL: (406) 626-5728
QTH: DN27ub
URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
Windows Messenger: [hidden email]
Skype: lanceW7GJ
2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME
email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web
page (above)!

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N5GE

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

I use an M2 18XXX 18 element. It's very long. I think it's 32 feet
or more long. When using it, it's like aiming a rifle. I like it
very much.

For omni directional horizontal polarization I use a pair of M2
stacked loops on both 144 and 432 MHz. They are all on the same mast
with the 70cm loops stacked between the 2m loops. I also use them
for 2m repeaters up to 75 miles.

73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:07:06 -0800, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>One is a good high-gain 2-meter antenna which I am also researching. The other is the solid-state amplifier.
>
[snip]

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

Peter Torry

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Phil,

I use a K3 with internal transverter for 2m driving a LDmos power amplifier to good effect. If buying a commercial amp then consider a BEKOHLV series that uses the freescale device with full protection. Taking the amateur route building one is relatively easy and there are kits and boards available for the DUBUS design by F1JRD, look up the QST for October 2012 or the W6PQL site where you will find full information.

May I suggest that before buying an amp that you review the system that you intend to use as money spent on a good antenna and low loss feeder are a better investment than an amp.

73

Peter
G3SMT

>> Does anyone have the K3 2-meter option and use a solid-state linear amplifier?
>>
>> If so, which one. Also, maybe some information on the best to worst in available 2-meter amplifiers as I have never looked into these before.
>>
>> And, a friend suggested building my own 2-meter solid-state amplifier. Has anyone done this and maybe I can hear a little about that too.
>>
>> Thanks for
any comments.
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>
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Jim Brown-10

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

On 1/21/2013 8:13 AM, Peter Torry wrote:
> May I suggest that before buying an amp that you review the system that you intend to use as money spent on a good antenna and low loss feeder are a better investment than an amp.

Excellent suggestion, Peter.The difference between 5 watts and 160 watts
is 15 dB. It's not too difficult to achieve 10 dB or more of gain with
a 2M Yagi of manageable size, to gain another 10dB by getting it high in
the air, and to lose 10 dB in a long run of small coax and junk connectors.

73, Jim K9YC
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N5GE

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

In reply to this post by Peter Torry

Good advice, Peter.

Nothing less than LMR600 should be used for feed lines at 2m and
70cm. Naturally if you're really interested in VHF/UHF work, some
sort of hard-line is better.

Another thing I recommend:

Never, ever use a regular multi port switch box for VHF/UHF. Make
one your self using coaxial relays. You can switch 4 antennae with
two relays. My installation is configured for 2m with stacked
horizontal loops on the NC side of the relay and the 18 el Yagi-Uda
on the NO side. The 70cm system is done the same way.

My relays are inside a military ammo can on the mast of the tower.
The ammo can and relays cost less than a store bought switch box.

73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:13:30 +0000 (GMT), Peter Torry
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>Phil,
>
>I use a K3 with internal transverter for 2m driving a LDmos power amplifier to good effect. If buying a commercial amp then consider a BEKOHLV series that uses the freescale device with full protection. Taking the amateur route building one is relatively easy and there are kits and boards available for the DUBUS design by F1JRD, look up the QST for October 2012 or the W6PQL site where you will find full information.
>
>May I suggest that before buying an amp that you review the system that you intend to use as money spent on a good antenna and low loss feeder are a better investment than an amp.
>
>73
>
>Peter
>G3SMT
>
>
>
>
>
>>> Does anyone have the K3 2-meter option and use a solid-state linear amplifier?
>>>
>>> If so, which one. Also, maybe some information on the best to worst in available 2-meter amplifiers as I have never looked into these before.
>>>
>>> And, a friend suggested building my own 2-meter solid-state amplifier. Has anyone done this and maybe I can hear a little about that too.
>>>
>>> Thanks for
> any comments.
>>>
>>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

Phil Hystad-3

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Yes, although I did not indicate this earlier, getting a high-gain antenna is first on my research and shopping list. I know more about what I want there and where to find it. It is the amplifier part of the problem that I was asking here. Also, just in case someone wants to raise the issue, I am already planning on LMR600 low-loss coax (but likely not super low loss hardline coax).

73, phil, K7PEH

On Jan 21, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1/21/2013 8:13 AM, Peter Torry wrote:
>> May I suggest that before buying an amp that you review the system that you intend to use as money spent on a good antenna and low loss feeder are a better investment than an amp.
>
> Excellent suggestion, Peter.The difference between 5 watts and 160 watts is 15 dB. It's not too difficult to achieve 10 dB or more of gain with a 2M Yagi of manageable size, to gain another 10dB by getting it high in the air, and to lose 10 dB in a long run of small coax and junk connectors.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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Merv Schweigert

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

For the cost of LMR-600 you can find excellent used hard line removed from
cell use etc.
I used to buy it from the tower installers for 1.00 ft. most of it was
new end of
spool stuff even.
Shop around, its there, even the junk yards have it many times if your
in a
large populated area. A 12 pack of beer to the junk yard man produces a lot
of good stuff set aside for you.
Merv K9FD/KH6

> Yes, although I did not indicate this earlier, getting a high-gain antenna is first on my research and shopping list. I know more about what I want there and where to find it. It is the amplifier part of the problem that I was asking here. Also, just in case someone wants to raise the issue, I am already planning on LMR600 low-loss coax (but likely not super low loss hardline coax).
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/2013 8:13 AM, Peter Torry wrote:
>>> May I suggest that before buying an amp that you review the system that you intend to use as money spent on a good antenna and low loss feeder are a better investment than an amp.
>> Excellent suggestion, Peter.The difference between 5 watts and 160 watts is 15 dB. It's not too difficult to achieve 10 dB or more of gain with a 2M Yagi of manageable size, to gain another 10dB by getting it high in the air, and to lose 10 dB in a long run of small coax and junk connectors.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
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Dr. William J. Schmidt, II

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

This sounds good on the surface, but has the potential to be a disaster.
New end-of-spool heliax is fine. BUT...Avoid used heliax like the plague
unless you have the equipment to scan it (like a good Time Domain
Reflectometer). The longer the heliax is on the tower, the higher the
percentage that lightening damaged it (carbon tracks inside). The only way
to know is to scan it... and that may be long after you've bought it. So
what? You may re-live the lightening strike with mere RF power!

<<< For the cost of LMR-600 you can find excellent used hard line removed
from cell use etc.
I used to buy it from the tower installers for 1.00 ft. most of it was new
end of spool stuff even.
Shop around, it's there, even the junk yards have it many times if your in
a large populated area. A 12 pack of beer to the junk yard man produces a
lot of good stuff set aside for you.
Merv K9FD/KH6 >>>

Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ / J68HZ/ 8P6HK/ ZF2HZ/ PJ4HZ

Owner - Operator
Big Signal Ranch
Staunton, Illinois

email: [hidden email]

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N0AZZ

Re: 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3 2-meter option

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

Phil

I have the internal 2m module in my K3 and just went through the same
issues. I used a single yagi an M2 2m5WL I liked the truss system much
better than the 17B2's that always fail at the truss points the M2's figured
that out. It's on a 34' boom but light weight and small wind load.

I used a mast mounted preamp with low loss coax and only fittings till the
amp. I use 2 Mirage amps the first a QRP/ HT amp 5-10w in to step the power
up to about 50w then into my Mirage B-5030-G 50w in 300w out with a true 50w
input and 14.8v with a 70 amp supply the output is 358w into my Bird
wattmeter. I have a small fan's running on top of the heat sink's on both
amps and they show no sign of over hearing during digital modes or any heavy
duty cycles. I also have a B-5016-G a 165w Mirage amp all of these are the
Black face models and have never had a problem with any of them.......almost
forgot all of the amps were purchased used online over the last 5-6 years.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 11:08 AM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 2-meter solid-state linear amplifiers with K3
2-meter option

Yes, although I did not indicate this earlier, getting a high-gain antenna
is first on my research and shopping list. I know more about what I want
there and where to find it. It is the amplifier part of the problem that I
was asking here. Also, just in case someone wants to raise the issue, I am
already planning on LMR600 low-loss coax (but likely not super low loss
hardline coax).

73, phil, K7PEH

On Jan 21, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1/21/2013 8:13 AM, Peter Torry wrote:
>> May I suggest that before buying an amp that you review the system that
you intend to use as money spent on a good antenna and low loss feeder are a
better investment than an amp.
>
> Excellent suggestion, Peter.The difference between 5 watts and 160 watts
is 15 dB. It's not too difficult to achieve 10 dB or more of gain with a 2M
Yagi of manageable size, to gain another 10dB by getting it high in the air,
and to lose 10 dB in a long run of small coax and junk connectors.

>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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