2nd RX Vs. P3

[w7aqk]

Hi All,

There has been a fair amount of discussion here about which accessory for
the K3 trumps the other --a P3 or a 2nd RX.  I don't have an answer, but I
do have an opinion.

I have the full K-Line here, but due to neighborhood restrictions, my
antennas are modest.  I use an R8 and a vertical dipole (Sigma 40XK) set up
for 40 meters.  That gives me decent coverage from 40 meters up, but nothing
really fancy--and not a sure fire pile up buster!  I'm certainly no threat
to the "honor roll!"  Hi.  I think I have been a bit cavalier about relying
too much on the P3 to spot DX listening frequencies with just the P3.  I
love the P3, but I can't say I have been particularly accurate by using it.
I do turn on the 2nd RX fairly often, but more often than not,  I get lazy
about doing just that.

The recent K1N Dxpedition was sort of a wake-up call for me about using the
2nd RX more.  I'd use the P3, and think  I had ID'd the listening freq., but
it just wasn't producing any results.  Their split was very wide, and
besides that, stations were calling and calling, even though they weren't
the station K1N had acknowledged.  That' nothing new, but it was
particularly bad on this operation.  I was getting a lot of "false" readings
just using the P3.  For days I had "zero" success.  Eventually I went to the
2nd RX, and the results improved dramatically.  I got 5 band slots in fairly
short order by doing so.  There just doesn't seem to be a really good
substitute for knowing exactly which freq. the DX station is listening on at
the time.  It doesn't guarantee success, but it sure gives you a leg up!

I think, in my case at least, the 2nd RX may be the more advantageous for
this kind of thing.  Stations with more power, and bigger antennas, have a
definite advantage.  They can be picked out of the pile much more readily
than I can.  Some of the big guns have signals so strong they are like
magnets!  I think anyone in my shoes, who is trying to nab a good DX contact
here or there, is apt to find the 2nd RX to be a great accessory, and more
productive than the P3 for that particular purpose.  Chances are I'm not
using the P3 to it's best advantage, but I am trying to get better at it.
I'm sure there are "tricks" I'm not aware of.

Since the K1N DXpedition, there have been 4 or 5 other situations where the
2nd RX got me a contact in fairly short order--a couple of them just this
weekend.  Anyway, I'm getting more and more convinced that the 2nd RX was a
good move on my part.  The P3 was too, but it is more useful to me for other
reasons.  If I had it to do all over, and could only get one accessory, or
only one at a time, I would start with the 2nd RX.

By the way, on the KX3, the "dual watch" feature is priceless, and very
effectively emulates a 2nd RX!  K1N probably stretched the limits of that
feature (15 khz), but generally that is more than adequate.  The KX3 is just
a super slick radio, and with the PX3 you have a dynamite combo!

Dave W7AQK


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[w0mu]

A very difficult choice indeed.  The P3 display can be studied to
understand how a DX operator is working the pile.  You can tell if he is
working up or down the split or where in split in the case of large
splits of late or if he is shotgunning it.

I use both constantly.  The 2nd receiver can be set up with just a
couple of filters and you are good to go.  The 2nd receiver is great to
listen on a 2nd band if you have a 2nd antenna to use.

Mike W0MU

On 3/14/2015 10:42 PM, dyarnes wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> There has been a fair amount of discussion here about which accessory
> for the K3 trumps the other --a P3 or a 2nd RX.  I don't have an
> answer, but I do have an opinion.
>
> I have the full K-Line here, but due to neighborhood restrictions, my
> antennas are modest.  I use an R8 and a vertical dipole (Sigma 40XK)
> set up for 40 meters.  That gives me decent coverage from 40 meters
> up, but nothing really fancy--and not a sure fire pile up buster!  I'm
> certainly no threat to the "honor roll!"  Hi.  I think I have been a
> bit cavalier about relying too much on the P3 to spot DX listening
> frequencies with just the P3.  I love the P3, but I can't say I have
> been particularly accurate by using it. I do turn on the 2nd RX fairly
> often, but more often than not,  I get lazy about doing just that.
>
> The recent K1N Dxpedition was sort of a wake-up call for me about
> using the 2nd RX more.  I'd use the P3, and think  I had ID'd the
> listening freq., but it just wasn't producing any results.  Their
> split was very wide, and besides that, stations were calling and
> calling, even though they weren't the station K1N had acknowledged.  
> That' nothing new, but it was particularly bad on this operation.  I
> was getting a lot of "false" readings just using the P3.  For days I
> had "zero" success.  Eventually I went to the 2nd RX, and the results
> improved dramatically.  I got 5 band slots in fairly short order by
> doing so.  There just doesn't seem to be a really good substitute for
> knowing exactly which freq. the DX station is listening on at the
> time.  It doesn't guarantee success, but it sure gives you a leg up!
>
> I think, in my case at least, the 2nd RX may be the more advantageous
> for this kind of thing.  Stations with more power, and bigger
> antennas, have a definite advantage.  They can be picked out of the
> pile much more readily than I can.  Some of the big guns have signals
> so strong they are like magnets!  I think anyone in my shoes, who is
> trying to nab a good DX contact here or there, is apt to find the 2nd
> RX to be a great accessory, and more productive than the P3 for that
> particular purpose.  Chances are I'm not using the P3 to it's best
> advantage, but I am trying to get better at it. I'm sure there are
> "tricks" I'm not aware of.
>
> Since the K1N DXpedition, there have been 4 or 5 other situations
> where the 2nd RX got me a contact in fairly short order--a couple of
> them just this weekend.  Anyway, I'm getting more and more convinced
> that the 2nd RX was a good move on my part.  The P3 was too, but it is
> more useful to me for other reasons.  If I had it to do all over, and
> could only get one accessory, or only one at a time, I would start
> with the 2nd RX.
>
> By the way, on the KX3, the "dual watch" feature is priceless, and
> very effectively emulates a 2nd RX!  K1N probably stretched the limits
> of that feature (15 khz), but generally that is more than adequate.  
> The KX3 is just a super slick radio, and with the PX3 you have a
> dynamite combo!
>
> Dave W7AQK
>
>
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[Fred Smith-2]

Hello to the Group


I also agree with this assessment of the two they like many other "things"
in one's tool box can be and are quite useful at different times. As taught
me by my mentor K0AZ it is knowing "when" and "what" tool to use at the
proper time to make a contact is what counts. Too bad there isn't a tool to
do that also 8>)

I know that I'm not using all the features that my K-Lines have but I'm
still learning every day for all these years, then as soon as I get close
new firmware and the learning and features start over. The main reason that
I drank the cool-aid I guess.

I'm very lucky to have the ground, in the country, very low noise level for
a good antenna farm small but adequate, but let's my K-Line work the way it
was designed.


73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser # 6730--KX3 # 5210--K2/100 # 6470-KAT100
P3/SVGA--KAT500--W2
Amps Elecraft KPA500 HF/6m--Alpha's 9500 HF--87A HF--Mirage B-5030-G
300+w--(2) B-5016-G's 165w 2m



-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
dyarnes
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 11:42 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] 2nd RX Vs. P3

Hi All,

There has been a fair amount of discussion here about which accessory for
the K3 trumps the other --a P3 or a 2nd RX.  I don't have an answer, but I
do have an opinion.

I have the full K-Line here, but due to neighborhood restrictions, my
antennas are modest.  I use an R8 and a vertical dipole (Sigma 40XK) set up
for 40 meters.  That gives me decent coverage from 40 meters up, but nothing
really fancy--and not a sure fire pile up buster!  I'm certainly no threat
to the "honor roll!"  Hi.  I think I have been a bit cavalier about relying
too much on the P3 to spot DX listening frequencies with just the P3.  I
love the P3, but I can't say I have been particularly accurate by using it.
I do turn on the 2nd RX fairly often, but more often than not,  I get lazy
about doing just that.

The recent K1N Dxpedition was sort of a wake-up call for me about using the
2nd RX more.  I'd use the P3, and think  I had ID'd the listening freq., but
it just wasn't producing any results.  Their split was very wide, and
besides that, stations were calling and calling, even though they weren't
the station K1N had acknowledged.  That' nothing new, but it was
particularly bad on this operation.  I was getting a lot of "false" readings
just using the P3.  For days I had "zero" success.  Eventually I went to the
2nd RX, and the results improved dramatically.  I got 5 band slots in fairly
short order by doing so.  There just doesn't seem to be a really good
substitute for knowing exactly which freq. the DX station is listening on at
the time.  It doesn't guarantee success, but it sure gives you a leg up!

I think, in my case at least, the 2nd RX may be the more advantageous for
this kind of thing.  Stations with more power, and bigger antennas, have a
definite advantage.  They can be picked out of the pile much more readily
than I can.  Some of the big guns have signals so strong they are like
magnets!  I think anyone in my shoes, who is trying to nab a good DX contact
here or there, is apt to find the 2nd RX to be a great accessory, and more
productive than the P3 for that particular purpose.  Chances are I'm not
using the P3 to it's best advantage, but I am trying to get better at it.
I'm sure there are "tricks" I'm not aware of.

Since the K1N DXpedition, there have been 4 or 5 other situations where the
2nd RX got me a contact in fairly short order--a couple of them just this
weekend.  Anyway, I'm getting more and more convinced that the 2nd RX was a
good move on my part.  The P3 was too, but it is more useful to me for other
reasons.  If I had it to do all over, and could only get one accessory, or
only one at a time, I would start with the 2nd RX.

By the way, on the KX3, the "dual watch" feature is priceless, and very
effectively emulates a 2nd RX!  K1N probably stretched the limits of that
feature (15 khz), but generally that is more than adequate.  The KX3 is just
a super slick radio, and with the PX3 you have a dynamite combo!

Dave W7AQK


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What helps me a lot in cw pileup situations, is to set the filter width of
the 2nd rx to as wide as it will go (2.8 KHz in my case), and tighten up
the filter on the main receiver listening to the DX station. The wide
filter on the pileup makes it much easier to quickly find the station
currently being worked.

I use both the P3 and KRX3 and wouldn't want to be without either, but
considering the sadly frequent lack of good operating practice these days,
you'll have the greatest chance of identifying the station being worked by
using the 2nd rx.

73, Dale
WA8SRA


> Hi All,
>
> There has been a fair amount of discussion here about which accessory for
> the K3 trumps the other --a P3 or a 2nd RX.  I don't have an answer, but
<snip> ...
> I think anyone in my shoes, who is trying to nab a good DX
> contact
> here or there, is apt to find the 2nd RX to be a great accessory, and more
> productive than the P3 for that particular purpose.  Chances are I'm not
> using the P3 to it's best advantage, but I am trying to get better at it.
> I'm sure there are "tricks" I'm not aware of.
...
> Dave W7AQK


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[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

A good analysis ... the P3 compliments the KRX3 and vice versa.

Like Dave I have very modest antennas - an N6BT Q51 dipole at
6 meters for 20-10, an R5 or R7, and a 160/80/40 trapped inverted
V at 12 meters.  In many cases the P3 allows me to see quickly
where the DX is listening, offset just slightly and get in quickly
(if my signal is strong enough).  However, with the bigger piles
and the terrible operating behavior that has become the norm in
the last 10 years or so the P3 doesn't do the job on its own.

Just last night E30FB was on 40 CW calling for North America UP 3.
Sure enough there were callers UP 3 on the P3 and the timing was
right.  After a few fruitless calls, I turned up the KRX3 and -
sure enough - all the callers up 3 were simply calling whenever
E30FB stopped transmitting.  Looking at the P3 again - and using
the KRX3 - E30FB was actually listening up 4.5.  I called just
above the last caller in a bit of a clearing and he was in the log.

The same was true with K1N - although that one was almost a local.

I think a lot of the "out of turn calling" is due to those who can
not copy CW and are using decoders (whether that be in software or
in the rig).  Since the decoders are not 100% - particularly with
QRM present - those lids simply push the memory/macro button to send
their call every time the DX stops transmitting in hopes he will
repeat himself *if* they were the one he was calling.  Pile-up
behavior on CW has become worse than what it was on SSB 40 years
ago and phone is now so bad I won't even go there unless I need
it for an ATNO (only 5) or band credit.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2015-03-15 12:42 AM, dyarnes wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> There has been a fair amount of discussion here about which accessory
> for the K3 trumps the other --a P3 or a 2nd RX.  I don't have an answer,
> but I do have an opinion.
>
> I have the full K-Line here, but due to neighborhood restrictions, my
> antennas are modest.  I use an R8 and a vertical dipole (Sigma 40XK) set
> up for 40 meters.  That gives me decent coverage from 40 meters up, but
> nothing really fancy--and not a sure fire pile up buster!  I'm certainly
> no threat to the "honor roll!"  Hi.  I think I have been a bit cavalier
> about relying too much on the P3 to spot DX listening frequencies with
> just the P3.  I love the P3, but I can't say I have been particularly
> accurate by using it. I do turn on the 2nd RX fairly often, but more
> often than not,  I get lazy about doing just that.
>
> The recent K1N Dxpedition was sort of a wake-up call for me about using
> the 2nd RX more.  I'd use the P3, and think  I had ID'd the listening
> freq., but it just wasn't producing any results.  Their split was very
> wide, and besides that, stations were calling and calling, even though
> they weren't the station K1N had acknowledged.  That' nothing new, but
> it was particularly bad on this operation.  I was getting a lot of
> "false" readings just using the P3.  For days I had "zero" success.
> Eventually I went to the 2nd RX, and the results improved dramatically.
> I got 5 band slots in fairly short order by doing so.  There just
> doesn't seem to be a really good substitute for knowing exactly which
> freq. the DX station is listening on at the time.  It doesn't guarantee
> success, but it sure gives you a leg up!
>
> I think, in my case at least, the 2nd RX may be the more advantageous
> for this kind of thing.  Stations with more power, and bigger antennas,
> have a definite advantage.  They can be picked out of the pile much more
> readily than I can.  Some of the big guns have signals so strong they
> are like magnets!  I think anyone in my shoes, who is trying to nab a
> good DX contact here or there, is apt to find the 2nd RX to be a great
> accessory, and more productive than the P3 for that particular purpose.
> Chances are I'm not using the P3 to it's best advantage, but I am trying
> to get better at it. I'm sure there are "tricks" I'm not aware of.
>
> Since the K1N DXpedition, there have been 4 or 5 other situations where
> the 2nd RX got me a contact in fairly short order--a couple of them just
> this weekend.  Anyway, I'm getting more and more convinced that the 2nd
> RX was a good move on my part.  The P3 was too, but it is more useful to
> me for other reasons.  If I had it to do all over, and could only get
> one accessory, or only one at a time, I would start with the 2nd RX.
>
> By the way, on the KX3, the "dual watch" feature is priceless, and very
> effectively emulates a 2nd RX!  K1N probably stretched the limits of
> that feature (15 khz), but generally that is more than adequate.  The
> KX3 is just a super slick radio, and with the PX3 you have a dynamite
> combo!
>
> Dave W7AQK
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>

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[Ross Primrose]

The decision was easy for me: My shack desk is too small to add a P3,
and the K3RX takes no space....

73, Ross N4RP

--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.”

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