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600 meters

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riese-k3djc

600 meters

Gang

with all the traffic that goes through this list I thought I spotted
something
is it true that the KX3 will be able to rcv/tx in the new ( when we get
it )
470 Khz band

WOW

Bob K3DJC
____________________________________________________________
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Ken Alexander-2

Re: 600 meters

Hi Bob,

I wasn't paying close attention, but I thought I read that the KX3 will
cover the upper half of the MW band and could be made to cover the rest
of the band in the future. Hopefully, somebody with a better memory
than mine will jump in and correct me. The thought of receiving the
mediumwave band with something as good as an Elecraft leaves me
breathless. Being able to transmit on the 600m band with an Elecraft is
just too cool to contemplate!

73,

Ken Alexander
VE3HLS

On 12/01/2012 9:24 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Gang
>
> with all the traffic that goes through this list I thought I spotted
> something
> is it true that the KX3 will be able to rcv/tx in the new ( when we get
> it )
> 470 Khz band
>
> WOW
>
> Bob K3DJC
> ____________________________________________________________
> 57 Year Old Looks 27
> Local Woman Reveals Wrinkle Secret That Has Doctors Angry.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f0f962839dd360f6m03vuc
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

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wayne burdick

Re: 600 meters

Administrator

Hi Ken,

I appreciate your enthusiasm for coverage of this range. There's not
quite a free lunch here, though. The KX3 will receive down to about
300 kHz, but there's a moderate-slope high-pass filter in the T/R
switch to prevent PIN-diode IMD due to high-amplitude LF signals. So
the sensitivity decreases as you go down in frequency. When we get a
chance we'll put some numbers on it.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jan 12, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ken Alexander wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> I wasn't paying close attention, but I thought I read that the KX3
> will
> cover the upper half of the MW band and could be made to cover the
> rest
> of the band in the future. Hopefully, somebody with a better memory
> than mine will jump in and correct me. The thought of receiving the
> mediumwave band with something as good as an Elecraft leaves me
> breathless. Being able to transmit on the 600m band with an
> Elecraft is
> just too cool to contemplate!
>
> 73,
>
> Ken Alexander
> VE3HLS
>
>
> On 12/01/2012 9:24 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Gang
>>
>> with all the traffic that goes through this list I thought I spotted
>> something
>> is it true that the KX3 will be able to rcv/tx in the new ( when we
>> get
>> it )
>> 470 Khz band
>>
>> WOW
>>
>> Bob K3DJC
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> 57 Year Old Looks 27
>> Local Woman Reveals Wrinkle Secret That Has Doctors Angry.
>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f0f962839dd360f6m03vuc
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

wayne burdick

Re: 600 meters

Administrator

In reply to this post by riese-k3djc

Receive, yes. Transmit is theoretically possible but I can't say if/
when. Yet.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jan 12, 2012, at 6:24 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

>
> Gang
>
> with all the traffic that goes through this list I thought I spotted
> something
> is it true that the KX3 will be able to rcv/tx in the new ( when we
> get
> it )
> 470 Khz band
>
> WOW
>
> Bob K3DJC
> ____________________________________________________________
> 57 Year Old Looks 27
> Local Woman Reveals Wrinkle Secret That Has Doctors Angry.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f0f962839dd360f6m03vuc
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Ken Alexander-2

Re: 600 meters

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Right! Thaaaat's what I remember reading! Thanks Wayne.

I assume the highpass filter starts working just below 160m?

73 - Ken

On 12/01/2012 10:13 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Hi Ken,
>
> I appreciate your enthusiasm for coverage of this range. There's not
> quite a free lunch here, though. The KX3 will receive down to about
> 300 kHz, but there's a moderate-slope high-pass filter in the T/R
> switch to prevent PIN-diode IMD due to high-amplitude LF signals. So
> the sensitivity decreases as you go down in frequency. When we get a
> chance we'll put some numbers on it.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Jan 12, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ken Alexander wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> I wasn't paying close attention, but I thought I read that the KX3 will
>> cover the upper half of the MW band and could be made to cover the rest
>> of the band in the future. Hopefully, somebody with a better memory
>> than mine will jump in and correct me. The thought of receiving the
>> mediumwave band with something as good as an Elecraft leaves me
>> breathless. Being able to transmit on the 600m band with an Elecraft is
>> just too cool to contemplate!
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Ken Alexander
>> VE3HLS
>>
>>
>> On 12/01/2012 9:24 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> Gang
>>>
>>> with all the traffic that goes through this list I thought I spotted
>>> something
>>> is it true that the KX3 will be able to rcv/tx in the new ( when we get
>>> it )
>>> 470 Khz band
>>>
>>> WOW
>>>
>>> Bob K3DJC
>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>> 57 Year Old Looks 27
>>> Local Woman Reveals Wrinkle Secret That Has Doctors Angry.
>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f0f962839dd360f6m03vuc
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>

riese-k3djc

Re: 600 meters

In reply to this post by riese-k3djc

living next to a hospital with loads of switchers LF has become
pretty useless but for some reason the 500 K band is a QRN free zone
the TX/rcv
rig would be fantastic
of major interest to the many 600 meter band enthusiasts

Bob K3DJC

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 19:13:23 -0800 Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
writes:

> Hi Ken,
>
> I appreciate your enthusiasm for coverage of this range. There's not
>
> quite a free lunch here, though. The KX3 will receive down to about
>
> 300 kHz, but there's a moderate-slope high-pass filter in the T/R
> switch to prevent PIN-diode IMD due to high-amplitude LF signals. So
>
> the sensitivity decreases as you go down in frequency. When we get a
>
> chance we'll put some numbers on it.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Jan 12, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ken Alexander wrote:
>
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > I wasn't paying close attention, but I thought I read that the KX3
>
> > will
> > cover the upper half of the MW band and could be made to cover the
>
> > rest
> > of the band in the future. Hopefully, somebody with a better
> memory
> > than mine will jump in and correct me. The thought of receiving
> the
> > mediumwave band with something as good as an Elecraft leaves me
> > breathless. Being able to transmit on the 600m band with an
> > Elecraft is
> > just too cool to contemplate!
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Ken Alexander
> > VE3HLS
> >
> >
> > On 12/01/2012 9:24 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> >> Gang
> >>
> >> with all the traffic that goes through this list I thought I
> spotted
> >> something
> >> is it true that the KX3 will be able to rcv/tx in the new ( when
> we
> >> get
> >> it )
> >> 470 Khz band
> >>
> >> WOW
> >>
> >> Bob K3DJC
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> 57 Year Old Looks 27
> >> Local Woman Reveals Wrinkle Secret That Has Doctors Angry.
> >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f0f962839dd360f6m03vuc
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
> >>
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f0faa6adbad66303m03vuc
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wayne burdick

Re: 600 meters

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ken Alexander-2

On Jan 12, 2012, at 7:46 PM, Ken Alexander wrote:

> I assume the highpass filter starts working just below 160m?

Correct.

Wayne

>
> 73 - Ken
>
>
>
> On 12/01/2012 10:13 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> Hi Ken,
>>
>> I appreciate your enthusiasm for coverage of this range. There's
>> not quite a free lunch here, though. The KX3 will receive down to
>> about 300 kHz, but there's a moderate-slope high-pass filter in the
>> T/R switch to prevent PIN-diode IMD due to high-amplitude LF
>> signals. So the sensitivity decreases as you go down in frequency.
>> When we get a chance we'll put some numbers on it.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2012, at 7:07 PM, Ken Alexander wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Bob,
>>>
>>> I wasn't paying close attention, but I thought I read that the KX3
>>> will
>>> cover the upper half of the MW band and could be made to cover the
>>> rest
>>> of the band in the future. Hopefully, somebody with a better memory
>>> than mine will jump in and correct me. The thought of receiving the
>>> mediumwave band with something as good as an Elecraft leaves me
>>> breathless. Being able to transmit on the 600m band with an
>>> Elecraft is
>>> just too cool to contemplate!
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Ken Alexander
>>> VE3HLS
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/01/2012 9:24 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>> Gang
>>>>
>>>> with all the traffic that goes through this list I thought I
>>>> spotted
>>>> something
>>>> is it true that the KX3 will be able to rcv/tx in the new ( when
>>>> we get
>>>> it )
>>>> 470 Khz band
>>>>
>>>> WOW
>>>>
>>>> Bob K3DJC
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> 57 Year Old Looks 27
>>>> Local Woman Reveals Wrinkle Secret That Has Doctors Angry.
>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f0f962839dd360f6m03vuc
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>>

Edward R Cole

Re: 600 meters

In reply to this post by riese-k3djc

Wayne,

First of all I heard you say the KX3 will receive down to 310-KHz but
nothing about transmitting. Can it transmit below 500-KHz like the
K3? As far as sensitivity drop with freq. I assume an external
preamp could compensate for this.

I would be thrilled if the KX3 could do 1mw output on 461-510 KHz as
it could replace my K3 for 600m operations. I did build a
10.461-0.461 MHz transmit converter (LO=10-MHz) working at mw levels
(my 100w NDB xmtr needs only 1mw drive), but having a fully
functional transceiver would be more useful.

A question about RF output if the 2m transverter being designed for
the KX3. I have heard power levels of 2-3w mentioned and also
10w. Is there more definitive info on this topic? 2w will drive a
couple of my linear 2m amps to 30-45w.

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
Coming Soon - "Kits made by KL7UW"
======================================
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Mike Morrow-3

Re: 600 meters

In reply to this post by riese-k3djc

It is damnably difficult to radiate *much* power on 600 meters unless
one has a lot of transmitter and real estate for antenna and ground.

The SCR-578 and AN/CRT-3 WWII 'Gibson Girl' lifeboat emergency hand-crank
transmitters (500 kHz, A2) and other later emergency lifeboat stations
typically used a two-watt input transmitter to a balloon- or kite-hoisted
300-foot wire antenna with sinker on braided wire to throw in the water for
the ground. That actually made a fairly passable 500 kHz antenna system.

Most hams will be lucky to achieve a few milliwatts ERP from a few hundred
watts input power with small antennas not located over salt water.

Up to 25 years ago I kept a receiver in my bedroom tuned to 500 kHz at
night. There was once a fascinating world of maritime Morse traffic in
the 420 to 510 kHz band, but it's all been gone since 1999. I miss it.

I'm not holding my breath for WARC 500 kHz ham authorization, nor for
Elecraft equipment to operate there. If it happens, I hope that A2 will
sometimes be legal on 500 kHz, just like before 1999. I am glad the KX3
will be able to receive whatever is on MF well below the 160m band, with
addition of the KXAT3.

73,
Mike / KK5F
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: 600 meters

In reply to this post by riese-k3djc

Wayne has told us that receive is possible on those frequencies.
No official word has been given about transmit capability on those
bands. We will have to wait and see and one perimeter is the setting
0gg KDDSP2

On 1/12/2012 9:24 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Gang
>
> with all the traffic that goes through this list I thought I spotted
> something
> is it true that the KX3 will be able to rcv/tx in the new ( when we get
> it )
> 470 Khz band
>
> WOW
>
> Bob K3DJC
> ____________________________________________________________
> 57 Year Old Looks 27
> Local Woman Reveals Wrinkle Secret That Has Doctors Angry.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4f0f962839dd360f6m03vuc
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post:mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Edward R Cole

Re: 600 meters

In reply to this post by riese-k3djc

Mike Morrow, KK5F, wrote: "It is damnably difficult to radiate *much*
power on 600 meters unless
one has a lot of transmitter and real estate for antenna and ground."
"Most hams will be lucky to achieve a few milliwatts ERP from a few hundred
watts input power with small antennas not located over salt water."

Well I assume you are talking theory. I have been QRV for over a
year on 600m running 100w RF output to an inverted-L antenna (43ft
high x 122ft long) with large loading coil at the base. My
calculated (EasyNEC2) ERP = 4.15w (not mw). Granted that this is an
antenna efficiency of 0.8% so little RF is effectively radiated (most
is warming worms). I consider my soil as poor and use four radials
of 2-foot wide chicken wire laid on the ground surface. MY signal
has been detected 2800 miles away! QRO and renting a WWV site is not
needed! Some of our participants are radiating 20w ERP using 500w
amplifiers. BTW my 600m radio is my K3 or alternate Rx: SDR-IQ.

BTW I regularly check into the Elecraft 20m-SSB Net with 16w from my
K3/10, with little problem. Again, QRO is overrated. Maybe in a QRM
loaded 20m contest but this does not exist on 600m. Just a handful
of experimenters and enthusiasts finding out what can be done with ERP<20w.

Actually more than you would guess. Out to 300-km propagation is
100% all the time using ground wave. I made a series of GW tests in
summer of 2010 running 4w ERP with +35 dB SNR ( S6-S7) at 100-miles
at my two receiving partners. I wish our station in North Pole (AK)
had been active (300-mi) to gather info at that range.

In the winter 600m acts somewhat like 160m with lengthening DX over
thousands of miles. I have copied a station in Buffalo, NY at about
4000 miles from me, and several instances of copying Vancouver, BC
and Oregon (1300-2000 miles). The biggest limitation is static noise
in the lower-48. It doesn't exist much up here in Alaska.

So, yes, full-size antennas are huge, but a typical 160m antenna, if
loaded, will work pretty good!
BTW I've heard that theoretically bumblebees cannot fly! ;-)

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
Coming Soon - "Kits made by KL7UW"
======================================
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Sean Cavanaugh-4

Re: 600 meters

Ed, you're quite right.

In Canada, we have a ham band at 2200m (135.7-137.8kHz) which I am (very slowly) working on becoming QRV on. The regulations are different than other ham bands in that we are limited to 1W EIRP. Even with that low level, DX is possible, for instance VE7TIL-JA7NI in 2010. So don't discount what a low EIRP can accomplish!

73
Sean - VA5LF

On 2012-01-13, at 12:02 PM, Edward R. Cole wrote:

> Mike Morrow, KK5F, wrote: "It is damnably difficult to radiate *much*
> power on 600 meters unless
> one has a lot of transmitter and real estate for antenna and ground."
> "Most hams will be lucky to achieve a few milliwatts ERP from a few hundred
> watts input power with small antennas not located over salt water."
>
> Well I assume you are talking theory. I have been QRV for over a
> year on 600m running 100w RF output to an inverted-L antenna (43ft
> high x 122ft long) with large loading coil at the base. My
> calculated (EasyNEC2) ERP = 4.15w (not mw). Granted that this is an
> antenna efficiency of 0.8% so little RF is effectively radiated (most
> is warming worms). I consider my soil as poor and use four radials
> of 2-foot wide chicken wire laid on the ground surface. MY signal
> has been detected 2800 miles away! QRO and renting a WWV site is not
> needed! Some of our participants are radiating 20w ERP using 500w
> amplifiers. BTW my 600m radio is my K3 or alternate Rx: SDR-IQ.
>
> BTW I regularly check into the Elecraft 20m-SSB Net with 16w from my
> K3/10, with little problem. Again, QRO is overrated. Maybe in a QRM
> loaded 20m contest but this does not exist on 600m. Just a handful
> of experimenters and enthusiasts finding out what can be done with ERP<20w.
>
> Actually more than you would guess. Out to 300-km propagation is
> 100% all the time using ground wave. I made a series of GW tests in
> summer of 2010 running 4w ERP with +35 dB SNR ( S6-S7) at 100-miles
> at my two receiving partners. I wish our station in North Pole (AK)
> had been active (300-mi) to gather info at that range.
>
> In the winter 600m acts somewhat like 160m with lengthening DX over
> thousands of miles. I have copied a station in Buffalo, NY at about
> 4000 miles from me, and several instances of copying Vancouver, BC
> and Oregon (1300-2000 miles). The biggest limitation is static noise
> in the lower-48. It doesn't exist much up here in Alaska.
>
> So, yes, full-size antennas are huge, but a typical 160m antenna, if
> loaded, will work pretty good!
> BTW I've heard that theoretically bumblebees cannot fly! ;-)
>
>
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
> ======================================
> BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
> EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
> Coming Soon - "Kits made by KL7UW"
> ======================================
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Jim Brown-10

Re: 600 meters

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

On 1/13/2012 12:14 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> It simply demonstrates that unexpected DX can be obtained on those
> frequencies, although far less frequently that one expects at H.F.

Not only on MF. During the recent RTTY RU, G3LZQ answered my CQ on 80M
around 0730Z, with a signal that was so loud that I absolutely did not
believe it was real -- a REAL S9+ on my K3, as strong as a big station
in CO. G3 is 5,200 miles and over the pole (and G is limited to 400W).
I'd never heard an 80M EU signal stronger than about about S6. I was
convinced it was a pirate playing games, and deleted the QSO from my
log, not wanting to be penalized. Turns out it was quite real, and I had
to restore it to my log. Now I'm a believer in "ya never know.: :)

73, Jim K9YC
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