7610 / k3 ... amp comparisons

[Arthur Nienhouse]

*/I will agree with everything said pasted below but for one thing which
is Fan Noise I'm a rag chewer around 30 wpm QSK the fan will ratchet up
to speed 3 after a few minutes of keying so the fan noise is very a
subjective opinion not right not wrong just is, being fair in my
assessment mine is built from a kit when they first came out.

By the way as an Icom owner of both the 7300 now parked unplugged and
for sale and the 7610 the cw qsk is better in the 7610 but  the K3 is my
choice for split frequency DX QSK exchanges over both of the Icom radios
the 7610 is a big improvement how ever I find it clumsy to work Split
listening up stuff .... the Internal Keyer in the K3 is much better
there is a better range of adjustments available in the Elecraft
internal keyer ....would I like to see it like the Supper CMOS 3 keyer
choices heck yes ....Icom gives you little choice my fist after a lot of
practicing and paying attention is better with the Icom but not as good
as the Elecraft Mode A Mode B is most important choice but even more
choices would be nice like the length of (each element) not just the
spacing between each element.

One important discovery the 7610 muted VFO A from a S9 signal just up
the band on vfo B while chasing the Baker Is DX-Pedition it took me a
while to (find) out this is what was going on wanting to master the
listening up pile up with the 7610 and only one VFO knob  takes getting
used to the cw monitor side tone is 5 taps deep in the menu to change I
can not hear it well enough even set at 100% you have to turn down the
RF gain making the guy on the island weaker copy then turn up the AF
gain making the side tone for my fist louder so I can hear what I'm
doing on the paddle, (self defeating) and *stupid* The cw side tone is
tied to the *flipping* AF gain not separate like in the K3.....
*stupid*. If you can't hear the island on one VFO because a big signal
is a couple cycles up push his button never listening to *hear the guy
on the island* who he is working or know if he is calling Mr button
pusher that kind of qrm is not necessary nor productive to the run rate.
Mr button pusher was not working QSK was he waiting for a computer to
tell him the island is calling?????
You can't fix *STUPID*..............front end muting from a big signal
near by is a problem. Now change to head phones you ears get blown up by
the side tone level needing 5 taps deep in the menu then adjusting it
even one more time *stupid* at the very least this adjustment needs to
be in the MULTI button empty spot menu ...........like it is for SSB
don't hold your breath waiting to Icom to fix this over site.
Both radios drive the KPA500 well the hook up is straight forward easy
to do QSK  relays perfect the best.
Oh yea Icom needs a menu setting SPK+Phones, a rear plug for 3.5 Mic
input and 3.5 Elec-Key input.

  Back to Baker Is DX I finally gave up switched to the K3 bam in the
log ...... You get what you pay for there is a lot to like with the 7610
a lot, many features you don't get with the base set up in many other
radios the price is really good but if you want to race  Pro Stock it is
not cheep performance counts and cost....

Not sorry.. never have been on my choice I have put a helper fan on top
to push air as soon as the amp comes on cooling it from before key down
lower start temp. My shack is hottest room in the house the station is
in a corner
the helper fan is a Noctua fan NF-a9x14pwm low profile. To be fair a TV
is always going two computers big monitor all making the room hotter. I
get a couple more minutes till the temp runs to 65c kicks speed 3 on
which is my time out timer to turn it over,  the equipment is also
stacked to save space I found that at full song speed 3 kicks in if I'm
in the middle of some sentence and keep going the fan will run at speed
3 then go back to speed 2 .....be nice to set the on set of speed 3 a
bit higher in the tempeture range. This amp is well built really does
the job I'm happy happy happy, and yes my Z bracket has the correct
length hold down screws it will click when cooling down ( not always )
not real objectionable for me the fan noise more annoying. The screws
were re-tightened after a heat cycle one at a time like you do with race
engines.

I also took the advice to run the amp to its limit not at 400w out it
does seem the final is most efficient and running a tad cooler and
longer before speed 3 which is annoying and to be avoided in my opinion.
The helper fan starts things from a cooler lower temperature as well
giving a bit longer run time to speed
speed 3 another thing that can be done which I did before the helper fan
is run speed 1 at turn on keeping the idle temp lower.

The Quadra has been in stand by ever since the KPA500 made it debut
plugged in and doing its timed maintenance mode, running the relays and
noisy fans. I would switch between them, now its not even plugged in I
do not see the need for what I'm doing....say that to say this I just
might get the new 1500 if I can sell the Quadra ( new 1998) never an
inrush current problem first run second version was the best, the only
problem replaced the 4 meter lights a few years ago. Elecraft ATU is so
good compared to the Quadra with  RF sniffing power needed is a speck in
the ocean compared to the 50 watts into a perfect load Mr Quadra want's
to see.

Regards
Art
ka9zap

/*After much investigation and consideration I elected to purchase the
KPA-500/F.   Since I have the K3S and now the KAT-500,  I've "trained"
the KAT-500 for the antennas and frequencies on each band.  With the VFO
tracking, I dial the frequency and everything follows.

Specifically the KPA-500 I find to be very quiet, it delivers 500 watts
+ on every band, 160 - 6M.  Drive power is about 25 watts on every
band.  The fan is quiet and is of no concern even at the highest
speed.   It does step down quickly as the amp cools. Normally the fan is
off until the temperature rises.   Using it on FT-8 at 500 watts out, it
will increment to #2 on occasion.    The input always appears as a 1:1
SWR to the transceiver.    The high SWR circuit does protect the amp and
is fast.  With my station configuration I feel as though I have a 500
watt transceiver, automatically selecting antennas and tuning as
needed.   I touch nothing but the VFO knob or enter the frequency for
the next band. Everything switches silently and automatically.

I come from a line of tube amps in the 1000 to 1200 watt class. Fans run
all the time.  Power output varies with band as well as drive
requirements.  Most seem to be optimized for 20M.   My last tube amp was
a AL-80B and it was one of the smoothest tuning amps I've used. Power
out always 1000 + watts.   But it required tuning with each frequency
and band change.

The difference in power is 3 dB or only 1/2 S unit.    All works for
me.  I vote for the KPA-500.
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[Wes Stewart-2]

I wish I could understand all of this.

On 7/24/2018 6:58 AM, Arthur Nienhouse wrote:

> */I will agree with everything said pasted below but for one thing which is
> Fan Noise I'm a rag chewer around 30 wpm QSK the fan will ratchet up to speed
> 3 after a few minutes of keying so the fan noise is very a subjective opinion
> not right not wrong just is, being fair in my assessment mine is built from a
> kit when they first came out.
>
> By the way as an Icom owner of both the 7300 now parked unplugged and for sale
> and the 7610 the cw qsk is better in the 7610 but the K3 is my choice for
> split frequency DX QSK exchanges over both of the Icom radios the 7610 is a
> big improvement how ever I find it clumsy to work Split listening up stuff
> .... the Internal Keyer in the K3 is much better there is a better range of
> adjustments available in the Elecraft internal keyer ....would I like to see
> it like the Supper CMOS 3 keyer choices heck yes ....Icom gives you little
> choice my fist after a lot of practicing and paying attention is better with
> the Icom but not as good as the Elecraft Mode A Mode B is most important
> choice but even more choices would be nice like the length of (each element)
> not just the spacing between each element.
>
> One important discovery the 7610 muted VFO A from a S9 signal just up the band
> on vfo B while chasing the Baker Is DX-Pedition it took me a while to (find)
> out this is what was going on wanting to master the listening up pile up with
> the 7610 and only one VFO knob  takes getting used to the cw monitor side tone
> is 5 taps deep in the menu to change I can not hear it well enough even set at
> 100% you have to turn down the RF gain making the guy on the island weaker
> copy then turn up the AF gain making the side tone for my fist louder so I can
> hear what I'm doing on the paddle, (self defeating) and *stupid* The cw side
> tone is tied to the *flipping* AF gain not separate like in the K3.....
> *stupid*. If you can't hear the island on one VFO because a big signal is a
> couple cycles up push his button never listening to *hear the guy on the
> island* who he is working or know if he is calling Mr button pusher that kind
> of qrm is not necessary nor productive to the run rate. Mr button pusher was
> not working QSK was he waiting for a computer to tell him the island is
> calling?????
> You can't fix *STUPID*..............front end muting from a big signal near by
> is a problem. Now change to head phones you ears get blown up by the side tone
> level needing 5 taps deep in the menu then adjusting it even one more time
> *stupid* at the very least this adjustment needs to be in the MULTI button
> empty spot menu ...........like it is for SSB don't hold your breath waiting
> to Icom to fix this over site.
> Both radios drive the KPA500 well the hook up is straight forward easy to do
> QSK  relays perfect the best.
> Oh yea Icom needs a menu setting SPK+Phones, a rear plug for 3.5 Mic input and
> 3.5 Elec-Key input.
>
>  Back to Baker Is DX I finally gave up switched to the K3 bam in the log
> ...... You get what you pay for there is a lot to like with the 7610 a lot,
> many features you don't get with the base set up in many other radios the
> price is really good but if you want to race  Pro Stock it is not cheep
> performance counts and cost....
>
> Not sorry.. never have been on my choice I have put a helper fan on top to
> push air as soon as the amp comes on cooling it from before key down lower
> start temp. My shack is hottest room in the house the station is in a corner
> the helper fan is a Noctua fan NF-a9x14pwm low profile. To be fair a TV is
> always going two computers big monitor all making the room hotter. I get a
> couple more minutes till the temp runs to 65c kicks speed 3 on which is my
> time out timer to turn it over,  the equipment is also stacked to save space I
> found that at full song speed 3 kicks in if I'm in the middle of some sentence
> and keep going the fan will run at speed 3 then go back to speed 2 .....be
> nice to set the on set of speed 3 a bit higher in the tempeture range. This
> amp is well built really does the job I'm happy happy happy, and yes my Z
> bracket has the correct length hold down screws it will click when cooling
> down ( not always ) not real objectionable for me the fan noise more annoying.
> The screws were re-tightened after a heat cycle one at a time like you do with
> race engines.
>
> I also took the advice to run the amp to its limit not at 400w out it does
> seem the final is most efficient and running a tad cooler and longer before
> speed 3 which is annoying and to be avoided in my opinion.
> The helper fan starts things from a cooler lower temperature as well giving a
> bit longer run time to speed
> speed 3 another thing that can be done which I did before the helper fan is
> run speed 1 at turn on keeping the idle temp lower.
>
> The Quadra has been in stand by ever since the KPA500 made it debut plugged in
> and doing its timed maintenance mode, running the relays and noisy fans. I
> would switch between them, now its not even plugged in I do not see the need
> for what I'm doing....say that to say this I just might get the new 1500 if I
> can sell the Quadra ( new 1998) never an inrush current problem first run
> second version was the best, the only problem replaced the 4 meter lights a
> few years ago. Elecraft ATU is so good compared to the Quadra with  RF
> sniffing power needed is a speck in the ocean compared to the 50 watts into a
> perfect load Mr Quadra want's to see.
>
> Regards
> Art
> ka9zap
>
> /*After much investigation and consideration I elected to purchase the
> KPA-500/F.   Since I have the K3S and now the KAT-500,  I've "trained" the
> KAT-500 for the antennas and frequencies on each band.  With the VFO tracking,
> I dial the frequency and everything follows.
>
> Specifically the KPA-500 I find to be very quiet, it delivers 500 watts + on
> every band, 160 - 6M.  Drive power is about 25 watts on every band.  The fan
> is quiet and is of no concern even at the highest speed.   It does step down
> quickly as the amp cools. Normally the fan is off until the temperature
> rises.   Using it on FT-8 at 500 watts out, it will increment to #2 on
> occasion.    The input always appears as a 1:1 SWR to the transceiver.    The
> high SWR circuit does protect the amp and is fast.  With my station
> configuration I feel as though I have a 500 watt transceiver, automatically
> selecting antennas and tuning as needed.   I touch nothing but the VFO knob or
> enter the frequency for the next band. Everything switches silently and
> automatically.
>
> I come from a line of tube amps in the 1000 to 1200 watt class. Fans run all
> the time.  Power output varies with band as well as drive requirements.  Most
> seem to be optimized for 20M.   My last tube amp was a AL-80B and it was one
> of the smoothest tuning amps I've used. Power out always 1000 + watts.   But
> it required tuning with each frequency and band change.
>
> The difference in power is 3 dB or only 1/2 S unit.    All works for me.  I
> vote for the KPA-500.

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[Kjeld Holm]

Quote
> the fan noise is very a subjective
> opinion not right not wrong just is

Yes, but it can be measured in dB(A)......

Vy 73 de OZ1CCM, Kjeld

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[Josh Fiden]

TL;DR


Sent from my mobile device

> On Jul 24, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I wish I could understand all of this.
>
>> On 7/24/2018 6:58 AM, Arthur Nienhouse wrote:
>> */I will agree with everything said pasted below but for one thing which is Fan Noise I'm a rag chewer around 30 wpm QSK the fan will ratchet up to speed 3 after a few minutes of keying so the fan noise is very a subjective opinion not right not wrong just is, being fair in my assessment mine is built from a kit when they first came out.
>>
>> By the way as an Icom owner of both the 7300 now parked unplugged and for sale and the 7610 the cw qsk is better in the 7610 but the K3 is my choice for split frequency DX QSK exchanges over both of the Icom radios the 7610 is a big improvement how ever I find it clumsy to work Split listening up stuff .... the Internal Keyer in the K3 is much better there is a better range of adjustments available in the Elecraft internal keyer ....would I like to see it like the Supper CMOS 3 keyer choices heck yes ....Icom gives you little choice my fist after a lot of practicing and paying attention is better with the Icom but not as good as the Elecraft Mode A Mode B is most important choice but even more choices would be nice like the length of (each element) not just the spacing between each element.
>>
>> One important discovery the 7610 muted VFO A from a S9 signal just up the band on vfo B while chasing the Baker Is DX-Pedition it took me a while to (find) out this is what was going on wanting to master the listening up pile up with the 7610 and only one VFO knob  takes getting used to the cw monitor side tone is 5 taps deep in the menu to change I can not hear it well enough even set at 100% you have to turn down the RF gain making the guy on the island weaker copy then turn up the AF gain making the side tone for my fist louder so I can hear what I'm doing on the paddle, (self defeating) and *stupid* The cw side tone is tied to the *flipping* AF gain not separate like in the K3..... *stupid*. If you can't hear the island on one VFO because a big signal is a couple cycles up push his button never listening to *hear the guy on the island* who he is working or know if he is calling Mr button pusher that kind of qrm is not necessary nor productive to the run rate. Mr button

  pusher was not working QSK was he waiting for a computer to tell him the island is calling?????

>> You can't fix *STUPID*..............front end muting from a big signal near by is a problem. Now change to head phones you ears get blown up by the side tone level needing 5 taps deep in the menu then adjusting it even one more time *stupid* at the very least this adjustment needs to be in the MULTI button empty spot menu ...........like it is for SSB don't hold your breath waiting to Icom to fix this over site.
>> Both radios drive the KPA500 well the hook up is straight forward easy to do QSK  relays perfect the best.
>> Oh yea Icom needs a menu setting SPK+Phones, a rear plug for 3.5 Mic input and 3.5 Elec-Key input.
>>
>>  Back to Baker Is DX I finally gave up switched to the K3 bam in the log ...... You get what you pay for there is a lot to like with the 7610 a lot, many features you don't get with the base set up in many other radios the price is really good but if you want to race  Pro Stock it is not cheep performance counts and cost....
>>
>> Not sorry.. never have been on my choice I have put a helper fan on top to push air as soon as the amp comes on cooling it from before key down lower start temp. My shack is hottest room in the house the station is in a corner
>> the helper fan is a Noctua fan NF-a9x14pwm low profile. To be fair a TV is always going two computers big monitor all making the room hotter. I get a couple more minutes till the temp runs to 65c kicks speed 3 on which is my time out timer to turn it over,  the equipment is also stacked to save space I found that at full song speed 3 kicks in if I'm in the middle of some sentence and keep going the fan will run at speed 3 then go back to speed 2 .....be nice to set the on set of speed 3 a bit higher in the tempeture range. This amp is well built really does the job I'm happy happy happy, and yes my Z bracket has the correct length hold down screws it will click when cooling down ( not always ) not real objectionable for me the fan noise more annoying. The screws were re-tightened after a heat cycle one at a time like you do with race engines.
>>
>> I also took the advice to run the amp to its limit not at 400w out it does seem the final is most efficient and running a tad cooler and longer before speed 3 which is annoying and to be avoided in my opinion.
>> The helper fan starts things from a cooler lower temperature as well giving a bit longer run time to speed
>> speed 3 another thing that can be done which I did before the helper fan is run speed 1 at turn on keeping the idle temp lower.
>>
>> The Quadra has been in stand by ever since the KPA500 made it debut plugged in and doing its timed maintenance mode, running the relays and noisy fans. I would switch between them, now its not even plugged in I do not see the need for what I'm doing....say that to say this I just might get the new 1500 if I can sell the Quadra ( new 1998) never an inrush current problem first run second version was the best, the only problem replaced the 4 meter lights a few years ago. Elecraft ATU is so good compared to the Quadra with  RF sniffing power needed is a speck in the ocean compared to the 50 watts into a perfect load Mr Quadra want's to see.
>>
>> Regards
>> Art
>> ka9zap
>>
>> /*After much investigation and consideration I elected to purchase the KPA-500/F.   Since I have the K3S and now the KAT-500,  I've "trained" the KAT-500 for the antennas and frequencies on each band.  With the VFO tracking, I dial the frequency and everything follows.
>>
>> Specifically the KPA-500 I find to be very quiet, it delivers 500 watts + on every band, 160 - 6M.  Drive power is about 25 watts on every band.  The fan is quiet and is of no concern even at the highest speed.   It does step down quickly as the amp cools. Normally the fan is off until the temperature rises.   Using it on FT-8 at 500 watts out, it will increment to #2 on occasion.    The input always appears as a 1:1 SWR to the transceiver.    The high SWR circuit does protect the amp and is fast.  With my station configuration I feel as though I have a 500 watt transceiver, automatically selecting antennas and tuning as needed.   I touch nothing but the VFO knob or enter the frequency for the next band. Everything switches silently and automatically.
>>
>> I come from a line of tube amps in the 1000 to 1200 watt class. Fans run all the time.  Power output varies with band as well as drive requirements.  Most seem to be optimized for 20M.   My last tube amp was a AL-80B and it was one of the smoothest tuning amps I've used. Power out always 1000 + watts.   But it required tuning with each frequency and band change.
>>
>> The difference in power is 3 dB or only 1/2 S unit.    All works for me.  I vote for the KPA-500.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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[Wes Stewart-2]

Now I wish I understood that.  Doesn't anyone write in English anymore?  I
suppose I should be relieved that every third word isn't "like."


On 7/24/2018 3:08 PM, Josh Fiden wrote:

> TL;DR
>
>
> Sent from my mobile device
>
>> On Jul 24, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I wish I could understand all of this.
>>
>>> On 7/24/2018 6:58 AM, Arthur Nienhouse wrote:
>>> */I will agree with everything said pasted below but for one thing which is Fan Noise I'm a rag chewer around 30 wpm QSK the fan will ratchet up to speed 3 after a few minutes of keying so the fan noise is very a subjective opinion not right not wrong just is, being fair in my assessment mine is built from a kit when they first came out.
>>>
>>> By the way as an Icom owner of both the 7300 now parked unplugged and for sale and the 7610 the cw qsk is better in the 7610 but the K3 is my choice for split frequency DX QSK exchanges over both of the Icom radios the 7610 is a big improvement how ever I find it clumsy to work Split listening up stuff .... the Internal Keyer in the K3 is much better there is a better range of adjustments available in the Elecraft internal keyer ....would I like to see it like the Supper CMOS 3 keyer choices heck yes ....Icom gives you little choice my fist after a lot of practicing and paying attention is better with the Icom but not as good as the Elecraft Mode A Mode B is most important choice but even more choices would be nice like the length of (each element) not just the spacing between each element.
>>>
>>> One important discovery the 7610 muted VFO A from a S9 signal just up the band on vfo B while chasing the Baker Is DX-Pedition it took me a while to (find) out this is what was going on wanting to master the listening up pile up with the 7610 and only one VFO knob  takes getting used to the cw monitor side tone is 5 taps deep in the menu to change I can not hear it well enough even set at 100% you have to turn down the RF gain making the guy on the island weaker copy then turn up the AF gain making the side tone for my fist louder so I can hear what I'm doing on the paddle, (self defeating) and *stupid* The cw side tone is tied to the *flipping* AF gain not separate like in the K3..... *stupid*. If you can't hear the island on one VFO because a big signal is a couple cycles up push his button never listening to *hear the guy on the island* who he is working or know if he is calling Mr button pusher that kind of qrm is not necessary nor productive to the run rate. Mr button
>    pusher was not working QSK was he waiting for a computer to tell him the island is calling?????
>>> You can't fix *STUPID*..............front end muting from a big signal near by is a problem. Now change to head phones you ears get blown up by the side tone level needing 5 taps deep in the menu then adjusting it even one more time *stupid* at the very least this adjustment needs to be in the MULTI button empty spot menu ...........like it is for SSB don't hold your breath waiting to Icom to fix this over site.
>>> Both radios drive the KPA500 well the hook up is straight forward easy to do QSK  relays perfect the best.
>>> Oh yea Icom needs a menu setting SPK+Phones, a rear plug for 3.5 Mic input and 3.5 Elec-Key input.
>>>
>>>   Back to Baker Is DX I finally gave up switched to the K3 bam in the log ...... You get what you pay for there is a lot to like with the 7610 a lot, many features you don't get with the base set up in many other radios the price is really good but if you want to race  Pro Stock it is not cheep performance counts and cost....
>>>
>>> Not sorry.. never have been on my choice I have put a helper fan on top to push air as soon as the amp comes on cooling it from before key down lower start temp. My shack is hottest room in the house the station is in a corner
>>> the helper fan is a Noctua fan NF-a9x14pwm low profile. To be fair a TV is always going two computers big monitor all making the room hotter. I get a couple more minutes till the temp runs to 65c kicks speed 3 on which is my time out timer to turn it over,  the equipment is also stacked to save space I found that at full song speed 3 kicks in if I'm in the middle of some sentence and keep going the fan will run at speed 3 then go back to speed 2 .....be nice to set the on set of speed 3 a bit higher in the tempeture range. This amp is well built really does the job I'm happy happy happy, and yes my Z bracket has the correct length hold down screws it will click when cooling down ( not always ) not real objectionable for me the fan noise more annoying. The screws were re-tightened after a heat cycle one at a time like you do with race engines.
>>>
>>> I also took the advice to run the amp to its limit not at 400w out it does seem the final is most efficient and running a tad cooler and longer before speed 3 which is annoying and to be avoided in my opinion.
>>> The helper fan starts things from a cooler lower temperature as well giving a bit longer run time to speed
>>> speed 3 another thing that can be done which I did before the helper fan is run speed 1 at turn on keeping the idle temp lower.
>>>
>>> The Quadra has been in stand by ever since the KPA500 made it debut plugged in and doing its timed maintenance mode, running the relays and noisy fans. I would switch between them, now its not even plugged in I do not see the need for what I'm doing....say that to say this I just might get the new 1500 if I can sell the Quadra ( new 1998) never an inrush current problem first run second version was the best, the only problem replaced the 4 meter lights a few years ago. Elecraft ATU is so good compared to the Quadra with  RF sniffing power needed is a speck in the ocean compared to the 50 watts into a perfect load Mr Quadra want's to see.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Art
>>> ka9zap
>>>
>>> /*After much investigation and consideration I elected to purchase the KPA-500/F.   Since I have the K3S and now the KAT-500,  I've "trained" the KAT-500 for the antennas and frequencies on each band.  With the VFO tracking, I dial the frequency and everything follows.
>>>
>>> Specifically the KPA-500 I find to be very quiet, it delivers 500 watts + on every band, 160 - 6M.  Drive power is about 25 watts on every band.  The fan is quiet and is of no concern even at the highest speed.   It does step down quickly as the amp cools. Normally the fan is off until the temperature rises.   Using it on FT-8 at 500 watts out, it will increment to #2 on occasion.    The input always appears as a 1:1 SWR to the transceiver.    The high SWR circuit does protect the amp and is fast.  With my station configuration I feel as though I have a 500 watt transceiver, automatically selecting antennas and tuning as needed.   I touch nothing but the VFO knob or enter the frequency for the next band. Everything switches silently and automatically.
>>>
>>> I come from a line of tube amps in the 1000 to 1200 watt class. Fans run all the time.  Power output varies with band as well as drive requirements.  Most seem to be optimized for 20M.   My last tube amp was a AL-80B and it was one of the smoothest tuning amps I've used. Power out always 1000 + watts.   But it required tuning with each frequency and band change.
>>>

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[Jim Sr Sturges]

That was a completely understandable post. If you have trouble with
conversational prose, please reset your ears before you criticize an
experienced operator. Somebody like N7WS doesn't deserve amateurish (not in
the good sense) criticism. -- 73, N3Sz

On Tuesday, July 24, 2018, Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Now I wish I understood that.  Doesn't anyone write in English anymore?  I
> suppose I should be relieved that every third word isn't "like."
>
>
> On 7/24/2018 3:08 PM, Josh Fiden wrote:
>
>> TL;DR
>>
>>
>> Sent from my mobile device
>>
>> On Jul 24, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Wes Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I wish I could understand all of this.
>>>
>>> On 7/24/2018 6:58 AM, Arthur Nienhouse wrote:
>>>> */I will agree with everything said pasted below but for one thing
>>>> which is Fan Noise I'm a rag chewer around 30 wpm QSK the fan will ratchet
>>>> up to speed 3 after a few minutes of keying so the fan noise is very a
>>>> subjective opinion not right not wrong just is, being fair in my assessment
>>>> mine is built from a kit when they first came out.
>>>>
>>>> By the way as an Icom owner of both the 7300 now parked unplugged and
>>>> for sale and the 7610 the cw qsk is better in the 7610 but the K3 is my
>>>> choice for split frequency DX QSK exchanges over both of the Icom radios
>>>> the 7610 is a big improvement how ever I find it clumsy to work Split
>>>> listening up stuff .... the Internal Keyer in the K3 is much better there
>>>> is a better range of adjustments available in the Elecraft internal keyer
>>>> ....would I like to see it like the Supper CMOS 3 keyer choices heck yes
>>>> ....Icom gives you little choice my fist after a lot of practicing and
>>>> paying attention is better with the Icom but not as good as the Elecraft
>>>> Mode A Mode B is most important choice but even more choices would be nice
>>>> like the length of (each element) not just the spacing between each element.
>>>>
>>>> One important discovery the 7610 muted VFO A from a S9 signal just up
>>>> the band on vfo B while chasing the Baker Is DX-Pedition it took me a while
>>>> to (find) out this is what was going on wanting to master the listening up
>>>> pile up with the 7610 and only one VFO knob  takes getting used to the cw
>>>> monitor side tone is 5 taps deep in the menu to change I can not hear it
>>>> well enough even set at 100% you have to turn down the RF gain making the
>>>> guy on the island weaker copy then turn up the AF gain making the side tone
>>>> for my fist louder so I can hear what I'm doing on the paddle, (self
>>>> defeating) and *stupid* The cw side tone is tied to the *flipping* AF gain
>>>> not separate like in the K3..... *stupid*. If you can't hear the island on
>>>> one VFO because a big signal is a couple cycles up push his button never
>>>> listening to *hear the guy on the island* who he is working or know if he
>>>> is calling Mr button pusher that kind of qrm is not necessary nor
>>>> productive to the run rate. Mr button
>>>>
>>>    pusher was not working QSK was he waiting for a computer to tell him
>> the island is calling?????
>>
>>> You can't fix *STUPID*..............front end muting from a big signal
>>>> near by is a problem. Now change to head phones you ears get blown up by
>>>> the side tone level needing 5 taps deep in the menu then adjusting it even
>>>> one more time *stupid* at the very least this adjustment needs to be in the
>>>> MULTI button empty spot menu ...........like it is for SSB don't hold your
>>>> breath waiting to Icom to fix this over site.
>>>> Both radios drive the KPA500 well the hook up is straight forward easy
>>>> to do QSK  relays perfect the best.
>>>> Oh yea Icom needs a menu setting SPK+Phones, a rear plug for 3.5 Mic
>>>> input and 3.5 Elec-Key input.
>>>>
>>>>   Back to Baker Is DX I finally gave up switched to the K3 bam in the
>>>> log ...... You get what you pay for there is a lot to like with the 7610 a
>>>> lot, many features you don't get with the base set up in many other radios
>>>> the price is really good but if you want to race  Pro Stock it is not cheep
>>>> performance counts and cost....
>>>>
>>>> Not sorry.. never have been on my choice I have put a helper fan on top
>>>> to push air as soon as the amp comes on cooling it from before key down
>>>> lower start temp. My shack is hottest room in the house the station is in a
>>>> corner
>>>> the helper fan is a Noctua fan NF-a9x14pwm low profile. To be fair a TV
>>>> is always going two computers big monitor all making the room hotter. I get
>>>> a couple more minutes till the temp runs to 65c kicks speed 3 on which is
>>>> my time out timer to turn it over,  the equipment is also stacked to save
>>>> space I found that at full song speed 3 kicks in if I'm in the middle of
>>>> some sentence and keep going the fan will run at speed 3 then go back to
>>>> speed 2 .....be nice to set the on set of speed 3 a bit higher in the
>>>> tempeture range. This amp is well built really does the job I'm happy happy
>>>> happy, and yes my Z bracket has the correct length hold down screws it will
>>>> click when cooling down ( not always ) not real objectionable for me the
>>>> fan noise more annoying. The screws were re-tightened after a heat cycle
>>>> one at a time like you do with race engines.
>>>>
>>>> I also took the advice to run the amp to its limit not at 400w out it
>>>> does seem the final is most efficient and running a tad cooler and longer
>>>> before speed 3 which is annoying and to be avoided in my opinion.
>>>> The helper fan starts things from a cooler lower temperature as well
>>>> giving a bit longer run time to speed
>>>> speed 3 another thing that can be done which I did before the helper
>>>> fan is run speed 1 at turn on keeping the idle temp lower.
>>>>
>>>> The Quadra has been in stand by ever since the KPA500 made it debut
>>>> plugged in and doing its timed maintenance mode, running the relays and
>>>> noisy fans. I would switch between them, now its not even plugged in I do
>>>> not see the need for what I'm doing....say that to say this I just might
>>>> get the new 1500 if I can sell the Quadra ( new 1998) never an inrush
>>>> current problem first run second version was the best, the only problem
>>>> replaced the 4 meter lights a few years ago. Elecraft ATU is so good
>>>> compared to the Quadra with  RF sniffing power needed is a speck in the
>>>> ocean compared to the 50 watts into a perfect load Mr Quadra want's to see.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Art
>>>> ka9zap
>>>>
>>>> /*After much investigation and consideration I elected to purchase the
>>>> KPA-500/F.   Since I have the K3S and now the KAT-500,  I've "trained" the
>>>> KAT-500 for the antennas and frequencies on each band.  With the VFO
>>>> tracking, I dial the frequency and everything follows.
>>>>
>>>> Specifically the KPA-500 I find to be very quiet, it delivers 500 watts
>>>> + on every band, 160 - 6M.  Drive power is about 25 watts on every band.
>>>> The fan is quiet and is of no concern even at the highest speed.   It does
>>>> step down quickly as the amp cools. Normally the fan is off until the
>>>> temperature rises.   Using it on FT-8 at 500 watts out, it will increment
>>>> to #2 on occasion.    The input always appears as a 1:1 SWR to the
>>>> transceiver.    The high SWR circuit does protect the amp and is fast.
>>>> With my station configuration I feel as though I have a 500 watt
>>>> transceiver, automatically selecting antennas and tuning as needed.   I
>>>> touch nothing but the VFO knob or enter the frequency for the next band.
>>>> Everything switches silently and automatically.
>>>>
>>>> I come from a line of tube amps in the 1000 to 1200 watt class. Fans
>>>> run all the time.  Power output varies with band as well as drive
>>>> requirements.  Most seem to be optimized for 20M.   My last tube amp was a
>>>> AL-80B and it was one of the smoothest tuning amps I've used. Power out
>>>> always 1000 + watts.   But it required tuning with each frequency and band
>>>> change.
>>>>
>>>>
>
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