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APP roll pins

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Dave G.

APP roll pins

The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the
cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins...
In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!!

--
Dave G. KK7SS
'65 MK III Sprite in Richland, WA
"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
But I'm not so sure about the universe." ... Albert Einstein.

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Mike B-12

Re: APP roll pins

I've purchased an APP pack or two that instead of having real roll pins (as in a
flat piece of metal rolled over on itself, having a bit of spring tension in the
process), just a piece of tiny metal tubing. While these slipped in place, they
also tended to slip out of place.

I'm guessing that this is what many dissatisfied APP users have purchased,
instead of getting a pack with real roll pins.

Dave G. wrote:
> The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the
> cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins...
> In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!!

73,

Mike
KW1ND
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Tom Hammond-2

Re: APP roll pins

I must admit that I have had less than stellar results with the roll pins
myself... having a number fall out over time. Fortunately none fell into
'sensitive' electronic areas... they just fall out...

I didn't have have all that good luck with Super Glues either... not sure
why, but the several times I tried them did not end well, with the connectors
STILL coming apart.

I think I like the idea of filling the 'roll pin hole' with hot glue. That
seems like a much more viable method.

I currently use a short length of #12 solid copper wire, stuck thru the hole
and then bent (on both ends) around at least two sides of each of the APP
connector shells. This method allows for a slight amount of movement between
the shells, but it does keep them together and in a manner which allows for
complete disassembly if necessary at a later time. It's not terribly 'pretty',
but it does work.

73,

Tom Hammond N0SS

At 21:29 04/05/2008, Mike B wrote:

>I've purchased an APP pack or two that instead of having real roll
>pins (as in a flat piece of metal rolled over on itself, having a
>bit of spring tension in the process), just a piece of tiny metal
>tubing. While these slipped in place, they also tended to slip out of place.
>
>I'm guessing that this is what many dissatisfied APP users have
>purchased, instead of getting a pack with real roll pins.
>
>Dave G. wrote:
>>The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the
>>cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins...
>>In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!!
>
>73,
>
>Mike
>KW1ND
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: APP roll pins

Tom and all,

That is quite contrary to my experience. The APP housings that I have
purchased (from both PowerWerks and West Mountain Radio) have dovetail
matings that need quite a bit of force to slide completely together, and
I lock them with a drop of SuperGlue. I never had one come apart, and
that includes the 3 of them that are in constant use on the workbench.
The ones in the hamshack are more permanent - they are seldom changed.
I have roll pins and use them only sometimes. If I use the roll pins, I
lock the pins in place with a drop of Superglue.

BTW - I just saw evidence that using the 'good' West Mountain crimper is
not the entire answer. The crimps this gentleman had made with that
tool had distorted the connector barrel and tongue severely such that
good contact was not made. When we discussed the problem, I found that
he was using the tool improperly. So even the proper tool can produce a
bad job if you do not know what a good crimped connection looks like.
Unfortunately, West Mountain Radio does not provide any instructions
with the tool.

73,
Don W3FPR

Tom Hammond wrote:

> I must admit that I have had less than stellar results with the roll pins
> myself... having a number fall out over time. Fortunately none fell into
> 'sensitive' electronic areas... they just fall out...
>
> I didn't have have all that good luck with Super Glues either... not sure
> why, but the several times I tried them did not end well, with the
> connectors
> STILL coming apart.
>
> I think I like the idea of filling the 'roll pin hole' with hot glue.
> That
> seems like a much more viable method.
>
> I currently use a short length of #12 solid copper wire, stuck thru
> the hole
> and then bent (on both ends) around at least two sides of each of the APP
> connector shells. This method allows for a slight amount of movement
> between
> the shells, but it does keep them together and in a manner which
> allows for
> complete disassembly if necessary at a later time. It's not terribly
> 'pretty',
> but it does work.
>
> 73,
>
> Tom Hammond N0SS
>

Jim Sheldon

RE: APP roll pins

In reply to this post by Tom Hammond-2

Just a comment on the APP connectors and roll pins. There are many ways to
solve the problem, some good and some not so good. Everyone that's used
them long enough will probably have tackled the disappearing roll pin
dilemma at one time or another.

Glueing them tends not to work because most glues don't like shear force
after being applied, and that's what happens when you slide the two halves
of the connector back together after putting the glue on them. Super glue
is really succeptible to this because it sets so fast. Other types of glue
have been used with varying degrees of success, mostly poor.

My solution was to clamp the connector halves in a vise, run a 4-40 tap
through the hole and then use a 4-40 x 1/4" setscrew screwed into the hole
to keep them from coming apart. You can also use a miniscule drop of blue
"Loc-Tite" on the threads of the setscrew to sort of lock it in place --
haven't had one come apart since I started doing this.

If you decide to try it, make sure you snug the connector in the vise, but
not so tight that you deform it. Carefully run the tap in and out of the
hole. Put the 4-40 x 1/4" setscrew into the hole before you remove the
connector from the vise. Check to make sure the APP will still mate with
another one and hasn't spread from the pressure if the setscrew. If it has,
remove the screw, reclamp it and run the tap back & forth several times to
cut the threads deeper. I've found this method works best with a new, sharp
tap.

Not all APP's are created equal, and some of the plastic material seems to
be harder than others. Probably depends on what plastic mix was used when
they were formed at the factory.

Jim Sheldon, W0EB

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alsopb

Re: APP roll pins

In reply to this post by Dave G.

This is crazy.

Who would ever want to use a connector with all the "problems" and care and feeding of the APP's?

Something has gotten lost here. Imagine if you had to go endure all of this for the AC plugs on all your household appliances?

Either the connector is no darn good or the problems reported here are greatly exaggerated.

The function is of a connector is to plug it in and forget about. It should be completely trouble free and a non-issue--ever.

de K3KO

Dave G. wrote

The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the
cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins...
In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!!

--
Dave G. KK7SS
'65 MK III Sprite in Richland, WA
"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
But I'm not so sure about the universe." ... Albert Einstein.

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John-483

Re: APP roll pins

At 08:12 AM 06/04/08, you wrote:

>This is crazy.
>
>
>Either the connector is no darn good or the problems reported here are
>greatly exaggerated.

Well said! It's fun to follow the threads and see just how far they
go though. I think G4ILO put an end to the 7.5 lb knob thread with
his comment too. :-)

JOhn
k7up
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Tom Hammond-2

Re: APP roll pins

In reply to this post by alsopb

Actually, the 'basic' APP connectors have few 'problems'... they slip together
nicely and if properly assembled, require little additional 'help'.

The discussion had to do with the perceived need to 'help' them by inserting
pins to keep them from coming apart, which is rare anyway.

I virtually NEVER 'pin' my APP connectors, and have had very few
problems at all.
However, WHEN I DO pin them, I was reporting my experiences.

I've been using APP connectors since before they were "APP"
connectors. There was
a previous manufacturer... and I've been using them for at least 15 years now
with extremely good results.

Tom N0SS

At 09:12 04/06/2008, K3KO wrote:

>This is crazy.
>
>Who would ever want to use a connector with all the "problems" and care and
>feeding of the APP's?
>
>Something has gotten lost here. Imagine if you had to go endure all of this
>for the AC plugs on all your household appliances?
>
>Either the connector is no darn good or the problems reported here are
>greatly exaggerated.
>
>The function is of a connector is to plug it in and forget about. It should
>be completely trouble free and a non-issue--ever.
>
>de K3KO
>
>
>Dave G. wrote:
> >
> > The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the
> > cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins...
> > In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!!
> >
> > --
> > Dave G. KK7SS
> > '65 MK III Sprite in Richland, WA
> > "Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
> > But I'm not so sure about the universe." ... Albert Einstein.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
> >
> >
>
>--
>View this message in context:
>http://www.nabble.com/APP-roll-pins-tp16520010p16524603.html
>Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>_______________________________________________
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George Victor-2

Re: APP roll pins

Sermos.
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AC7AC

RE: APP roll pins

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

John E. Reiser

Re: APP roll pins

In reply to this post by John-483

Hi All,

I think the problems have been exagerated. I have been using PP connectors
on all of my 12-volt toys for the past six years, with roll pins, both
soldered and crimped, without problems of any kind.

YMMV. 73, John, W2GW

----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins

> At 08:12 AM 06/04/08, you wrote:
>
>>This is crazy.
>>
>>
>>Either the connector is no darn good or the problems reported here are
>>greatly exaggerated.
>
> Well said! It's fun to follow the threads and see just how far they go
> though. I think G4ILO put an end to the 7.5 lb knob thread with his
> comment too. :-)
>
> JOhn
> k7up _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

k7svv

Re: APP roll pins

In reply to this post by alsopb

K3KO's response is the best I have read in this thread so far and I agree
100%. I have been using and putting up with these APP's for at least 6-7
years and have learned that I always crimp them using a cheap crimper and I
always solder them too. It took a while for me to learn (I am a slow
learner) that you must crimp it near the edge where the wire goes into the
connector. Stay as far away as you can from the contact end so that you
don't deform it to the point where you can't insert it into the housing. I
don't use heat shrink tubing but I may in the future. I know many of you
don't agree but this is what works best for me. To me the APP's are a pain
to assemble and they are not reliable because they come apart too easy even
though they snap together properly. I had to get these remarks in before
Eric pulls the plug which should be any day now.

John [K7SVV]

P.S. I use the roll pin.

----- Original Message -----
From: "K3KO" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins

>
> This is crazy.
>
> Who would ever want to use a connector with all the "problems" and care
> and
> feeding of the APP's?
>
> Something has gotten lost here. Imagine if you had to go endure all of
> this
> for the AC plugs on all your household appliances?
>
> Either the connector is no darn good or the problems reported here are
> greatly exaggerated.
>
> The function is of a connector is to plug it in and forget about. It
> should
> be completely trouble free and a non-issue--ever.
>
> de K3KO
>
>
> Dave G. wrote:
>>
>> The APP kit I bought (some time ago) from PowerWerx contained the
>> cheap crimper, anc 20 sets of 30A APP's including the roll pins...
>> In over three years I have NOT had a roll pin come out!!
>>
>> --
>> Dave G. KK7SS
>> '65 MK III Sprite in Richland, WA
>> "Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
>> But I'm not so sure about the universe." ... Albert Einstein.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/APP-roll-pins-tp16520010p16524603.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1362 - Release Date: 4/6/2008
> 11:12 AM
>
>

Don Brown-4

Re: APP roll pins

Hi

I have been using these for several years and they are on all of my 12 volt
stuff. I mounted a 5 circuit RigRunner on my work bench that I can plug
into to power radios I am working on. I have used the roll pins but do not
use them any more. If you are careful to make the wires exactly the same
length the connectors will not tend to come apart. I have found the glue
for PVC pipe works well to glue the connectors. I like it better than super
glue. Use a tiny bit on one side before you slide the dovetails together.
If you think you need a roll pin glue a toothpick into the hole for the pin
and clip off the excess with flush cutters. If it ever does come out at
least it will not short out anything.

Thanks

Don Brown
KD5NDB

K3 S/N 0575

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John [K7SVV]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 1:03 PM
To: "K3KO" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins

> K3KO's response is the best I have read in this thread so far and I agree
> 100%. I have been using and putting up with these APP's for at least 6-7
> years and have learned that I always crimp them using a cheap crimper and
> I always solder them too. It took a while for me to learn (I am a slow
> learner) that you must crimp it near the edge where the wire goes into the
> connector. Stay as far away as you can from the contact end so that you
> don't deform it to the point where you can't insert it into the housing.
> I don't use heat shrink tubing but I may in the future. I know many of
> you don't agree but this is what works best for me. To me the APP's are a
> pain to assemble and they are not reliable because they come apart too
> easy even though they snap together properly. I had to get these remarks
> in before Eric pulls the plug which should be any day now.
>
> John [K7SVV]
>
> P.S. I use the roll pin.
>

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: APP roll pins [END of Thread]

Administrator

Let's end this thread for now.
73,
Eric WA6HHQ
Elecraft List Moderator

_..._

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Charly

RE: APP roll pins

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

APPs are bad design, bad technology, just bad.... why?

1 the crimp or solder or buy a special tool or what ----facts as noted often here.

2. need glue often.... what!!!

3. no strain relief.

4. no repeat use, can not be used again.

5. do not step on this plastic or u will need another set.

6. do not get caught outside the easy ordering/purchase of these dogs or u will be sticking a bare wire into

the socket when ur apps are broken. Surprise, most of the world never hrd of these things ... and for good reason.

When, oh when, will users of this junk wake up to its obvious limits and abandon the false start they

represent?

Charles Harpole

[hidden email]

> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 09:15:03 -0400
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] APP roll pins
> CC: [hidden email]
>
> Tom and all,
>
> That is quite contrary to my experience. The APP housings that I have
> purchased (from both PowerWerks and West Mountain Radio) have dovetail
> matings that need quite a bit of force to slide completely together, and
> I lock them with a drop of SuperGlue. I never had one come apart, and
> that includes the 3 of them that are in constant use on the workbench.
> The ones in the hamshack are more permanent - they are seldom changed.
> I have roll pins and use them only sometimes. If I use the roll pins, I
> lock the pins in place with a drop of Superglue.
>
> BTW - I just saw evidence that using the 'good' West Mountain crimper is
> not the entire answer. The crimps this gentleman had made with that
> tool had distorted the connector barrel and tongue severely such that
> good contact was not made. When we discussed the problem, I found that
> he was using the tool improperly. So even the proper tool can produce a
> bad job if you do not know what a good crimped connection looks like.
> Unfortunately, West Mountain Radio does not provide any instructions
> with the tool.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Tom Hammond wrote:
> > I must admit that I have had less than stellar results with the roll pins
> > myself... having a number fall out over time. Fortunately none fell into
> > 'sensitive' electronic areas... they just fall out...
> >
> > I didn't have have all that good luck with Super Glues either... not sure
> > why, but the several times I tried them did not end well, with the
> > connectors
> > STILL coming apart.
> >
> > I think I like the idea of filling the 'roll pin hole' with hot glue.
> > That
> > seems like a much more viable method.
> >
> > I currently use a short length of #12 solid copper wire, stuck thru
> > the hole
> > and then bent (on both ends) around at least two sides of each of the APP
> > connector shells. This method allows for a slight amount of movement
> > between
> > the shells, but it does keep them together and in a manner which
> > allows for
> > complete disassembly if necessary at a later time. It's not terribly
> > 'pretty',
> > but it does work.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Tom Hammond N0SS
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Jim-170

RE: APP roll pins

Charles,

I believe that the Elecraft Moderator has asked for this Disruptive thread
"APP Roll Pins" to come to a halt.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make here.

K4PV

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Charles Harpole
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 9:59 PM
To: [hidden email]; Tom Hammond
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] APP roll pins

APPs are bad design, bad technology, just bad.... why?

1 the crimp or solder or buy a special tool or what ----facts as noted
often here.

2. need glue often.... what!!!

3. no strain relief.

4. no repeat use, can not be used again.

5. do not step on this plastic or u will need another set.

6. do not get caught outside the easy ordering/purchase of these dogs or u
will be sticking a bare wire into

the socket when ur apps are broken. Surprise, most of the world never hrd
of these things ... and for good reason.

When, oh when, will users of this junk wake up to its obvious limits and
abandon the false start they

represent?

Charles Harpole

[hidden email]

pins
> > myself... having a number fall out over time. Fortunately none fell into
> > 'sensitive' electronic areas... they just fall out...
> >
> > I didn't have have all that good luck with Super Glues either... not
sure

> > why, but the several times I tried them did not end well, with the
> > connectors
> > STILL coming apart.
> >
> > I think I like the idea of filling the 'roll pin hole' with hot glue.
> > That
> > seems like a much more viable method.
> >
> > I currently use a short length of #12 solid copper wire, stuck thru
> > the hole
> > and then bent (on both ends) around at least two sides of each of the

APP

> > connector shells. This method allows for a slight amount of movement
> > between
> > the shells, but it does keep them together and in a manner which
> > allows for
> > complete disassembly if necessary at a later time. It's not terribly
> > 'pretty',
> > but it does work.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Tom Hammond N0SS
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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