In a message dated 11/7/05 7:39:51 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [hidden email] writes: 40+ Years of CW SSing and still LOVING IT! I am a newcomer to all of this, and I am wondering if there is any place left in contesting for those of us who choose not to have a computer send code or receive code--ie just used for logging. I am working on getting my speed up, but I couldn't participate due to my inability to copy the high speed CW used by what I assume are mostly computers sending code. Am i off-base here? I do enjoy the QRP contests I have entered since these seem to use "manually" generated exchanges at slower speeds (20 - 25 WPM). Thanks for any advice...Ci, WU7R _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
> but I couldn't participate due to my inability to copy the high speed CW
> used by what I assume are mostly computers sending code. I admit to being fully automated. WriteLog did 95% of my sending. The other 5% was a keyboard connected to the microKeyer box. I sent CQ once or twice by hand just to break the monotony. Part of the fun for me is the technology, so don't anyone give me any crap about not sending my own code. :-) I didn't design my transceiver either. I'm comfortable ragchewing at 18-20 WPM -- by no means fast. I had the keyer set to around 28 for SS. I found most everyone was in that range... Maybe 30-35 at worst. I made a few exchanges at 35 just because the other guy was going that fast and it was no sweat to hit Alt-F10 a couple times to crank it up. *Many* times I slowed the keyer down to 18 for someone sending slower. After watching WriteLog, my wife asked me about the need to know any code. While the code-copying abilities of WriteLog are awesome (it copies at six audible frequency ranges simultaneously, and can do this for two radios at the same time), It doesn't handle low s/n ratios as well as the human ear, and it's not uncommon for it to drop a dit at the beginning or end of a letter. You can't depend on it. What I find (and I'm sure everyone does) is I can copy a lot faster in a contest than in real life, because the messages have a fixed format. Almost everything is numbers, which are easy to copy fast, and what isn't a number is a letter from a small list of possibilities (5 or 6 precedence codes and 80 sections). Most of the time I'm able to copy the caller's previous Q and increment the sequence number by one. Then when I call him I've actually already copied what he's going to send. I can use that time to verify I copied it right. The hard part is when you're sending CQ and you don't know what you're going to get back. I tend to send CQ at 25 WPM and hope that the answer will come back at the same speed. I get the same thing while flying my airplane -- people ask how I can keep track of everything ATC says. It's all in a fixed format using a limited vocabulary. You know what they're going to say before they say it so it's trivial to "remember" it. Craig NZ0R K1 #1966 K2/100 #4941 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
In reply to this post by Ci Jones
>I am a newcomer to all of this, and I am wondering if there is any place >left in contesting for those of us who choose not to have a computer send >code >or receive code--ie just used for logging. I am working on getting my >speed up, > but I couldn't participate due to my inability to copy the high speed CW >used by what I assume are mostly computers sending code. Am i off-base >here? I >do enjoy the QRP contests I have entered since these seem to use "manually" >generated exchanges at slower speeds (20 - 25 WPM). Thanks for any >advice...Ci, > WU7R What a curious comment: "ie just used for logging" This is not a criticism, simply a comment on these digitized times. The presupposition is that if there's anybody left that does not use a computer to send and receive code, then surely it must go without saying that everybody uses a computer to keep logs, at least in contests. I've been hamming (for fun) for over 40 years and talking to computers (for money) for only a trifle less than 40 years (yes, we had them back then), and have never seen the need to mix the two. I still send CW with a key (admittedly hooked to an electronic memory keyer), receive CW with pen and paper and do all my logkeeping on paper. I'm the first to admit that in "go for blood" contesting I would be hopelessly outmatched by the computerized QRO stations that roll up 90 QSOs per hour. However, in QRP contesting (i.e., in the QRP class in regular contests where you're score is only compared to other QRP entrants, but you're competing head to head with the QRO stations for contacts), where the S5 signal in an S9 ambience pretty much guarantees a relatively low contact rate (10-20 QSOs per hour), a computer does not give that much of an advantage, except maybe in preparing the log for submittal. 73, Steve AA4AK _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
In reply to this post by Ci Jones
> I am a newcomer to all of this, and I am wondering if there is any place
> left in contesting for those of us who choose not to have a computer send > code or receive code Actually I was daydreaming about the opposite and was wondering if anyone is working on this: There's no reason a program couldn't be written to automate the entire contesting process. The computer could work the radio, answer calls, send replies, and keep its own log. A control op would have to be present, and we'd need an operating class for "fully automated". It wouldn't necessarily be something where you'd sell the software to the mass market, thus destroying contesting forever, but rather it would make an interesting competition among the various software companies. You could even have networks of computers working one-per-band and other computers acting as spotters for rare multipliers. Software is pretty close to this already. WriteLog can integrate sending CW so tightly with logging, that it really only adds one keystroke to the normal keystrokes required for logging. After sending a CQ you enter the callsign and hit enter. It sends your report. Then enter the other guy's report and hit enter again. It logs the QSO and sends QSL/QRZ. If it could parse the CW decoder window it would be half-way there. As a programmer this sounds really cool. I don't have time to write it but it would be fun to work on if I could. Craig NZ0R K1 #1966 K2/100 #4941 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Why not go one step further and remove the radio all together? Just send
the QSO's over the internet! Craig Rairdin wrote: >>I am a newcomer to all of this, and I am wondering if there is any place >>left in contesting for those of us who choose not to have a computer send >>code or receive code > > > Actually I was daydreaming about the opposite and was wondering if anyone is > working on this: There's no reason a program couldn't be written to automate > the entire contesting process. The computer could work the radio, answer > calls, send replies, and keep its own log. A control op would have to be > present, and we'd need an operating class for "fully automated". It wouldn't > necessarily be something where you'd sell the software to the mass market, > thus destroying contesting forever, but rather it would make an interesting > competition among the various software companies. > > You could even have networks of computers working one-per-band and other > computers acting as spotters for rare multipliers. > > Software is pretty close to this already. WriteLog can integrate sending CW > so tightly with logging, that it really only adds one keystroke to the > normal keystrokes required for logging. After sending a CQ you enter the > callsign and hit enter. It sends your report. Then enter the other guy's > report and hit enter again. It logs the QSO and sends QSL/QRZ. If it could > parse the CW decoder window it would be half-way there. > > As a programmer this sounds really cool. I don't have time to write it but > it would be fun to work on if I could. > > Craig > NZ0R > K1 #1966 > K2/100 #4941 > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
In reply to this post by Craig Rairdin
On Mon, 7 Nov 2005, Craig Rairdin wrote:
>> I am a newcomer to all of this, and I am wondering if there is any place >> left in contesting for those of us who choose not to have a computer send >> code or receive code > > Actually I was daydreaming about the opposite and was wondering if anyone is > working on this: There's no reason a program couldn't be written to automate > the entire contesting process. The computer could work the radio, answer > calls, send replies, and keep its own log. A control op would have to be > present, and we'd need an operating class for "fully automated". It wouldn't > necessarily be something where you'd sell the software to the mass market, > thus destroying contesting forever, but rather it would make an interesting > competition among the various software companies. Man....it's not even close to April 1st. > > You could even have networks of computers working one-per-band and other > computers acting as spotters for rare multipliers. > > Software is pretty close to this already. WriteLog can integrate sending CW > so tightly with logging, that it really only adds one keystroke to the > normal keystrokes required for logging. After sending a CQ you enter the > callsign and hit enter. It sends your report. Then enter the other guy's > report and hit enter again. It logs the QSO and sends QSL/QRZ. If it could > parse the CW decoder window it would be half-way there. Why not set up a server on the internet that allows multiple cw qsos...then, instead of using rf spectrum for the operator-less contest, folks could pit their computer against each other. Obviously, no logs would have to be submitted, since the exchanges would be on the server. The server could tally the scores and announce the winners via a web page and/or email. > > As a programmer this sounds really cool. I don't have time to write it but > it would be fun to work on if I could. Perhaps you could find the time if you stopped using your K2/100...after all, with the system mentioned above, you wouldn't need to have a K2/100. 73,Thom-k3hrn www.zerobeat.net Home of QRP Web Ring, Drakelist home page, Free Classified Ads for amateur radio, QRP IRC channel Elecraft Owners Database www.tlchost.net/hosting/ *** Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
In reply to this post by Craig Rairdin
On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 02:52:30PM -0600, Craig Rairdin wrote:
> > I am a newcomer to all of this, and I am wondering if there is any place > > left in contesting for those of us who choose not to have a computer send > > code or receive code > > Actually I was daydreaming about the opposite and was wondering if anyone is > working on this: There's no reason a program couldn't be written to automate > the entire contesting process. The computer could work the radio, answer > calls, send replies, and keep its own log. A control op would have to be > present, and we'd need an operating class for "fully automated". It wouldn't > necessarily be something where you'd sell the software to the mass market, > thus destroying contesting forever, but rather it would make an interesting > competition among the various software companies. This was first done during Field Day, 1986, by a robot built by N6TR using the Z80 processor: http://www.trlog.com/history.shtml -- Kenneth E. Harker WM5R [hidden email] http://www.kenharker.com/ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
In reply to this post by Ci Jones
Hi Ci
To answer your question, sure, there is plenty of room for those who want to do paper logging. I did that myself up to two years ago when I was given an ancient 33MHZ Compac laptop. I added TRLOG to it and never looked back. When doing paper logging, you need to invent some shortcuts to save a lot of manual paper shuffling. Look at the contest you will be entering and look at the exchange. Is there any part that is repetitive? Some use a signal exchange that is nearly always "599". If so, just leave it printed in your log sheet and don't try to hand enter it. For time, just enter the hour once then only the minutes for each contact within that hour. Don't log anything that isn't called for. Manual logging is a pain once you have used a computer, but it worked for all those years and still does. Just has lower throughput. With manual logging, it will be difficult to be competitive, but a QRPer in a "big dogs" contest really isn't anyway. My primary goals are just to beat my previous efforts in a given contest, and add some score points to my contest club's combined score. Thank goodness there are plenty of others out there to help carry THAT load :-) Don't give up, just be more selective in your goals. Enjoy. Good luck and 73 Bob N6WG The Little Station with Attitude -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of [hidden email] Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:20 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] ARRL November Sweepstakes CW In a message dated 11/7/05 7:39:51 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [hidden email] writes: 40+ Years of CW SSing and still LOVING IT! I am a newcomer to all of this, and I am wondering if there is any place left in contesting for those of us who choose not to have a computer send code or receive code--ie just used for logging. I am working on getting my speed up, but I couldn't participate due to my inability to copy the high speed CW used by what I assume are mostly computers sending code. Am i off-base here? I do enjoy the QRP contests I have entered since these seem to use "manually" generated exchanges at slower speeds (20 - 25 WPM). Thanks for any advice...Ci, WU7R _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
In reply to this post by Ci Jones
[hidden email] wrote:
> > I am a newcomer to all of this, and I am wondering if there is any place > left in contesting for those of us who choose not to have a computer send code > or receive code--ie just used for logging. I am working on getting my speed up, > but I couldn't participate due to my inability to copy the high speed CW > used by what I assume are mostly computers sending code. Am i off-base here? I > do enjoy the QRP contests I have entered since these seem to use "manually" > generated exchanges at slower speeds (20 - 25 WPM). Thanks for any advice...Ci, > WU7R I worked a lot of stations up high in the band who were using keyers (you could tell it was not computer generated!) , bugs and a few straight keys. And most of them were in the 20 - 25 wpm range, calling CQ and working stations. No idea if they were using computers for logging or logging on paper, but they are there. On Sunday, when things slow down, I spend some time up around 7060 CQ'ing at around 24 - 26 wpm to catch the slower stations who don't want to get down in the fast lane between about 7020 and 7040 on 40. 72 73 Hank K8DD _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
In reply to this post by Ci Jones
In a message dated 11/7/05 2:55:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes: > The > presupposition is that if there's anybody left that does not use a computer > to send and receive code, then surely it must go without saying that > everybody uses a computer to keep logs, at least in contests. > I don't. Although I must admit that copying and duping several hundred contest QSOs is a bit of work after the contest is over. Best I ever did was a bit over 600 QSOs in SS. But that was more than a decade ago. 73 de Jim, N2EY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
In reply to this post by hank k8dd-2
In contests, code speed is inversly proportional to how far you are
listening up from the bottom of the band. Fred K6DGW Auburn CA CM98lw Hank Kohl K8DD wrote: > [hidden email] wrote: > >> >> I am a newcomer to all of this, and I am wondering if there is any >> place left in contesting for those of us who choose not to have a >> computer send code or receive code--ie just used for logging. I am >> working on getting my speed up, but I couldn't participate due to my >> inability to copy the high speed CW used by what I assume are mostly >> computers sending code. Am i off-base here? I do enjoy the QRP >> contests I have entered since these seem to use "manually" generated >> exchanges at slower speeds (20 - 25 WPM). Thanks for any advice...Ci, >> WU7R > > I worked a lot of stations up high in the band who were using keyers > (you could tell it was not computer > generated!) , bugs and a few straight keys. And most of them were in > the 20 - 25 wpm range, calling CQ > and working stations. No idea if they were using computers for logging > or logging on paper, but they are there. > > On Sunday, when things slow down, I spend some time up around 7060 > CQ'ing at around 24 - 26 wpm to > catch the slower stations who don't want to get down in the fast lane > between about 7020 and 7040 on 40. > > 72 73 Hank K8DD Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Glad to see that some of you are at least brave enough to try. I started contesting in the old Novice Roundup in 1966. Made 353 contacts with, 75 multipliers, in about 15 hours of operation. I run about 100 watts output to a Radioworks 40 meter "Superloop" up about 50 feet. I also have a full size 80 meter dipole. The "Super Loop" is used on 40 though 10 meters, with a tuner. The dipole is used on 160, 80 and 15. The "Super Loop" does not work well on 15. I use N3FJP software for logging, and like it. Very reasonably priced, and very easy to use. I still use paper logging when out in the field during state QSO parties. I use an Idiom Press CMOS Super Keyer 3. I have used several memory keyers since the mid 1970's, and think it is one of the best. The AEA MM3 is also very good, but very hard to find. My advise to a new contester, is to start out at the high end of the cw band of your choice. As you get more comfortable, work your way down. You will be amazed how quickly you are down in the Extra part of the cw band. I do it all the time. "CW GET" is also a good program to have. I use it to help me with the "speed merchants" who won't slow down. In my experience, most will. I rarely send more than about 18 - 20 wpm. Too many requests for repeats. If you find me, I will slow down as much as you wish. I usually increase the spacing between characters. In general, I have found contesters to be a pretty mellow group of people. Keep at it. Hope to hear you in a future contest. 73, Steve Brandt N7VS ex: WB6VVS, WN6QYP _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
In reply to this post by Ci Jones
On Nov 7, 2005, at 11:19 AM, [hidden email] wrote: > I am a newcomer to all of this, and I am wondering if there is any > place > left in contesting for those of us who choose not to have a > computer send code > or receive code--ie just used for logging. I am working on getting > my speed up, > but I couldn't participate due to my inability to copy the high > speed CW > used by what I assume are mostly computers sending code. Am i off- > base here? I > do enjoy the QRP contests I have entered since these seem to use > "manually" > generated exchanges at slower speeds (20 - 25 WPM). Thanks for any > advice... A couple of things here. First, congratulations for joining the contesting community. Contesting is a lot of fun, although it does take practice and experience to become proficient. Second, virtually NO ONE uses a computer to receive code in a contest. Send, yes, receive, no. The extremely good operators have no problem copying 25-40 wpm code in their head. Third, one way to operate a contest like SS when there are lots of QRQ signals on the air is to find a strong station and listen to him over and over, pick out his callsign letter by letter, then the exchange until you have just about everything. Then call him. When he replies, you'll already have most of the content for the exchange. This works in every contest except the Sprint. Forth, contest exchanges at 20-25 wpm are nothing to be ashamed of. I often run with my computer set at 24-26 wpm, since this is where I am comfortable copying responses. My paddles are set to about 20-22, since I can't physically send faster without making lots of errors. If you want to work exchanges at slower speeds, get on and call CQ at the speed you are comfortable, especially higher in the band. If calling CQ doesn't work, you can call the QRQ ops and say PSE QRS. Most will oblige. Personally, I call many ops in contests, but the super QRQ ops going 40+ wpm, I just tune by. I'm not there yet. Keep practicing! Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email] Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!" -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
In reply to this post by Craig Rairdin
On Nov 7, 2005, at 3:52 PM, Craig Rairdin wrote: > Actually I was daydreaming about the opposite and was wondering if > anyone is > working on this: There's no reason a program couldn't be written to > automate > the entire contesting process. The computer could work the radio, > answer > calls, send replies, and keep its own log. A control op would have > to be > present, and we'd need an operating class for "fully automated". It's called TACO (for Totally Automated Contest Operation). While much has been written about it, including some interesting articles in the National Contest Journal (NCJ) about 10 years ago, achieving any sort of competitive level of operation has yet to happen. There's no need for a separate operating class yet, and human operators have little to fear at the moment from hordes of robotic operations. Besides, why let a computer have all the fun? Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email] Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!" -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |