About the K3 cw speed
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Martin,how many ops nowaday in contests or even dx work TX/RX over 30 wpm ? Almost none,how many roundtables you find nowaday with guys TX/RX over 50 wpm ? almost none,eventually you will find sometimes a reduced group of two or three guys sending over 60 wpm and most of them using keyboards and PC sofware to decode,so the K3 has more than enough speed for any high or slow cw operator.
I am one of the few left old timers who still can copy with my ears up 65 wpm and send with my fist up to 60 but I never go that fast because can't find anyone to practice with,so I think Elecraft did a good job with the builtin keyer set to 50. I was in the field day recently and also in the last cw contest and could find anyone who could RX me when I was over 40 wpm,my speed was all the time no more than 30. Don't you realize that the CW spirit has been lost in the last years,haven't you see how few stations are using that mode ? I don't think we need more speed on the K3 AD4C "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits".. -- Albert Einstein ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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"the K3 has more than enough speed for any high or slow cw operator"
I have to disagree: Or maybe it depends on what he is high on..... With an external keying source, keyboard or whatever, the K3 cannot send good code over 40 wpm. Don't believe me? Try recording it and playing it back. Wayne has some ideas to help and will get to it when he can. I have an old Jupiter that keys beautifully over 90 wpm. The problem with the K3 lies in the vco circuit so I'm told. Steve N4LQ [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hector Padron" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:07 PM Subject: [Elecraft] About the K3 cw speed Martin,how many ops nowaday in contests or even dx work TX/RX over 30 wpm ? Almost none,how many roundtables you find nowaday with guys TX/RX over 50 wpm ? almost none,eventually you will find sometimes a reduced group of two or three guys sending over 60 wpm and most of them using keyboards and PC sofware to decode,so the K3 has more than enough speed for any high or slow cw operator. I am one of the few left old timers who still can copy with my ears up 65 wpm and send with my fist up to 60 but I never go that fast because can't find anyone to practice with,so I think Elecraft did a good job with the builtin keyer set to 50. I was in the field day recently and also in the last cw contest and could find anyone who could RX me when I was over 40 wpm,my speed was all the time no more than 30. Don't you realize that the CW spirit has been lost in the last years,haven't you see how few stations are using that mode ? I don't think we need more speed on the K3 AD4C "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits".. -- Albert Einstein ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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>> "the K3 has more than enough speed for any high or slow cw operator"
> I have to disagree: Or maybe it depends on what he is high on..... Same here. For a high speed op, 50 can be limiting (such as built-in top speed on the K2). With external keying the K2 can do about 70 but I'd love to see that built into the K2. Plenty high speed ops out there -- FOC, FISTS, CFO... We all have our wish lists though; no disrespect to the K2/K3 and all the engineering and budgeting decisions that undoubtedly went into them. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AD4C2009
Hi AD4C,
for you, a speed limitation at 50 wpm might be enough, for me it would be a very nice addition to be able to key with more than 60 wpm. And maybe you didn't see the smiley at the end of my remark. I am more than happy with my K3, and I can easily plug in an external keyer to be able to use this perfect cw trabsceiver in the speed range that I "need". It is nothing than a wish... and I should be allowed to have those wishes. Martin DK4XL EHSC #47 WAA #025 |
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In reply to this post by Steve Ellington
Back on April 15, 2009, Wayne asked for volunteers to field test a
high speed CW firmware mod (up to 120 WPM with an external keyer.) Did that not make it into a beta release? I've not paid attention since I'm far from taxing the built in keyer. 73 -- Joe KB8AP On Jul 30, 2009, at 9:15 AM, Steve Ellington wrote: > "the K3 has more than enough speed for any high or slow cw operator" > I have to disagree: Or maybe it depends on what he is high on..... > With an external keying source, keyboard or whatever, the K3 cannot > send > good code over 40 wpm. Don't believe me? Try recording it and > playing it > back. Wayne has some ideas to help and will get to it when he can. I > have an > old Jupiter that keys beautifully over 90 wpm. The problem with the > K3 lies > in the vco circuit so I'm told. > Steve > N4LQ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I believe you are referring to the addition to the weight menu item in
config. You can choose between old and new versions. It has no effect on the cw character distortion I'm referring to. CW sent at over 40 wpm by an external source comes out with varying dit and dah lengths and irregular element spacing due to sluggish switching. At 65 wpm you can record and play your transmission back at 32 wpm and easily hear what I am talking about. Instead of the perfectly formed characters normally produced by a keyboard, it comes out sounding like a BUG. You can hear this without actually transmitting by using test mode and listening to the sidetone. However,,,,if you push the XMIT button, all is well and cw sounds fine. Steve N4LQ [hidden email] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Planisky" <[hidden email]> To: "Steve Ellington" <[hidden email]> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] About the K3 cw speed > Back on April 15, 2009, Wayne asked for volunteers to field test a high > speed CW firmware mod (up to 120 WPM with an external keyer.) Did that > not make it into a beta release? I've not paid attention since I'm far > from taxing the built in keyer. > > 73 > -- > Joe KB8AP > > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 9:15 AM, Steve Ellington wrote: > >> "the K3 has more than enough speed for any high or slow cw operator" >> I have to disagree: Or maybe it depends on what he is high on..... >> With an external keying source, keyboard or whatever, the K3 cannot send >> good code over 40 wpm. Don't believe me? Try recording it and playing it >> back. Wayne has some ideas to help and will get to it when he can. I >> have an >> old Jupiter that keys beautifully over 90 wpm. The problem with the K3 >> lies >> in the vco circuit so I'm told. >> Steve >> N4LQ > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Joe Planisky
> Back on April 15, 2009, Wayne asked for volunteers to field test a
> high speed CW firmware mod (up to 120 WPM with an external keyer.) Did > that not make it into a beta release? I've not paid attention since > I'm far from taxing the built in keyer. As I recall, that update primarily relates to PTT CW, where the XMIT function is engaged for such devices as contest keyers. When using PTT keying, the K3 is capable of blistering fast CW. OTOH, the K3 presently hits a wall at roughly 45-50WPM in QSK and SEMI modes where element spacing accuracy suffers. I've confirmed N4LQ's observations. Overall, I think K3 keying has improved with time. CW rise/fall is now about 2.5 ms and under the "OLD" QSK menu, the RF envelope starts ~ 13 ms after key closure. It's a bit longer under the "NEW" menu configuration and a bit more "K" compensation is required with an external keyer in that mode. The faster slope rise/fall was achieved without a perceptible increase in keying bandwidth. That was quite an accomplishment. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by DK4XL
What´s the CW speed for the internal keyer on the K3?. Sure if I buy a K3 I will don´t be happy to spend many thousand $$$ in a radio to use an external keyer.! It´s possible with the K3 internal keyer, to use both keyboard and paddles when for example you are using contest software? (Win-Test) Thanks, Jorge CX6VM -----Mensaje original----- De: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de DK4XL Enviado el: Jueves, 30 de Julio de 2009 02:17 p.m. Para: [hidden email] Asunto: Re: [Elecraft] About the K3 cw speed Hi AD4C, for you, a speed limitation at 50 wpm might be enough, for me it would be a very nice addition to be able to key with more than 60 wpm. And maybe you didn't see the smiley at the end of my remark. I am more than happy with my K3, and I can easily plug in an external keyer to be able to use this perfect cw trabsceiver in the speed range that I "need". It is nothing than a wish... and I should be allowed to have those wishes. Martin DK4XL EHSC #47 WAA #025 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/About-the-K3-cw-speed-tp3357274p3357643.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __________ Informacisn de NOD32, revisisn 4290 (20090730) __________ Este mensaje ha sido analizado con NOD32 antivirus system http://www.nod32.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Max speed is 50WPM and yes there are two separate jacks in the back one for
paddles and a separate Key input for your contest software. ~Brett (KC7OTG) -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jorge Diez - CX6VM Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:21 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] About the K3 cw speed What´s the CW speed for the internal keyer on the K3?. Sure if I buy a K3 I will don´t be happy to spend many thousand $$$ in a radio to use an external keyer.! It´s possible with the K3 internal keyer, to use both keyboard and paddles when for example you are using contest software? (Win-Test) Thanks, Jorge CX6VM -----Mensaje original----- De: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de DK4XL Enviado el: Jueves, 30 de Julio de 2009 02:17 p.m. Para: [hidden email] Asunto: Re: [Elecraft] About the K3 cw speed Hi AD4C, for you, a speed limitation at 50 wpm might be enough, for me it would be a very nice addition to be able to key with more than 60 wpm. And maybe you didn't see the smiley at the end of my remark. I am more than happy with my K3, and I can easily plug in an external keyer to be able to use this perfect cw trabsceiver in the speed range that I "need". It is nothing than a wish... and I should be allowed to have those wishes. Martin DK4XL EHSC #47 WAA #025 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/About-the-K3-cw-speed-tp3357274p3357643.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __________ Informacisn de NOD32, revisisn 4290 (20090730) __________ Este mensaje ha sido analizado con NOD32 antivirus system http://www.nod32.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Andrew Moore-3
"With external keying the K2 can do about 70 but I'd love to see that built into the K2. Plenty high speed ops out there -- FOC, FISTS, CFO" True,there are dozen good high speed ops that can receive up to and over 70 wpm like friend of mine in Miami who can copy and type 75 wpm but how many of them will be able to TRANSMITT 70 wpm with his fist and a paddle ? Sure NONE.! So what's the point of having a TX speed over 50 unless you wanted to do a real messy transmission at 70. AD4C We all have our wish lists though; no disrespect to the K2/K3 and all the engineering and budgeting decisions that undoubtedly went into them. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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During a contest where the exchange report is the same (cqww) sometimes ops transmit the exchange at higher speed than the other parts of the qso, not sure, but i´m afraid is over 50 wpm. So the K3 will not do that?. 73, Jorge CX6VM -----Mensaje original----- De: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de Hector Padron Enviado el: Jueves, 30 de Julio de 2009 03:36 p.m. Para: Andrew Moore CC: [hidden email] Asunto: Re: [Elecraft] About the K3 cw speed "With external keying the K2 can do about 70 but I'd love to see that built into the K2. Plenty high speed ops out there -- FOC, FISTS, CFO" True,there are dozen good high speed ops that can receive up to and over 70 wpm like friend of mine in Miami who can copy and type 75 wpm but how many of them will be able to TRANSMITT 70 wpm with his fist and a paddle ? Sure NONE.! So what's the point of having a TX speed over 50 unless you wanted to do a real messy transmission at 70. AD4C We all have our wish lists though; no disrespect to the K2/K3 and all the engineering and budgeting decisions that undoubtedly went into them. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __________ Información de NOD32, revisión 4290 (20090730) __________ Este mensaje ha sido analizado con NOD32 antivirus system http://www.nod32.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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NO way Jorge,yes and no,in contests certainly the fastest ops send their numbers at higher speed but its not 50 as you think,otherwise lots of ops won't be able to copy anything in a crowded band full of QRM,the standard is between 35 and 40 wpm which is very confortable for all contesters.
AD4C "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits".. -- Albert Einstein --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Jorge Diez - CX6VM <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] About the K3 cw speed To: Cc: [hidden email] Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 6:41 PM During a contest where the exchange report is the same (cqww) sometimes ops transmit the exchange at higher speed than the other parts of the qso, not sure, but i´m afraid is over 50 wpm. So the K3 will not do that?. 73, Jorge CX6VM -----Mensaje original----- De: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de Hector Padron Enviado el: Jueves, 30 de Julio de 2009 03:36 p.m. Para: Andrew Moore CC: [hidden email] Asunto: Re: [Elecraft] About the K3 cw speed "With external keying the K2 can do about 70 but I'd love to see that built into the K2. Plenty high speed ops out there -- FOC, FISTS, CFO" True,there are dozen good high speed ops that can receive up to and over 70 wpm like friend of mine in Miami who can copy and type 75 wpm but how many of them will be able to TRANSMITT 70 wpm with his fist and a paddle ? Sure NONE.! So what's the point of having a TX speed over 50 unless you wanted to do a real messy transmission at 70. AD4C We all have our wish lists though; no disrespect to the K2/K3 and all the engineering and budgeting decisions that undoubtedly went into them. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __________ Información de NOD32, revisión 4290 (20090730) __________ Este mensaje ha sido analizado con NOD32 antivirus system http://www.nod32.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AD4C2009
quote: ... but how many of them will be able to TRANSMITT 70 wpm with his fist and a paddle ? Sure NONE.! Now I'm pretty sure that you don't know enough from this part of the cw world. Everybody takes the cw transmissions of the german ham DF4KV as computer made - but he uses an old Vibrokeyer to produce the by far best and fastest cw you can imagine. You should not judge about things you are not too deeply involved in. |
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In reply to this post by AD4C2009
On Thu, 2009-07-30 at 11:35 -0700, Hector Padron wrote:
> True,there are dozen good high speed ops that can receive up to > and over 70 wpm like friend of mine in Miami who can copy and > type 75 wpm but how many of them will be able to TRANSMITT 70 Many years ago, a friend was listening to a couple of the QRQ boys on the low end of 40 meters having at it at 70 wpm. Chuck recorded them on the reel-to-reel tape recorder at 7-1/2 inches per second and later played them back at half speed. He said that during the entire QSO neither one of them ever got the other's callsign correct. :=) Al N1AL ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by DK4XL
> ... but how many of them will be able to TRANSMITT 70 wpm with his fist
and > a paddle ? Sure NONE.! Right. We need to differentiate between internal and external keying here. The problem really isn't 50 WPM on an internal keyer while using a paddle -- I agree it's rare (but not impossible) that an operator could key proficiently beyond 50. It has been done, but it's rare. To clarify, the limit is the 50 (or 70, or whatever) when keying the rig EXTERNALLY. That is, for example, when setting the K2 to "input method = straight key" (can't recall exactly how the menu text phrases it) and using an external keyboard to send at anything higher than 70 WPM. The rig just can't handle it. So yes, 50 WPM on the "keyer" knob, fine by me. That said, I love the K2. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Alan Bloom
Alan Bloom wrote:
> Many years ago, a friend was listening to a couple of the QRQ boys on > the low end of 40 meters having at it at 70 wpm. Chuck recorded them on > the reel-to-reel tape recorder at 7-1/2 inches per second and later > played them back at half speed. He said that during the entire QSO > neither one of them ever got the other's callsign correct. :=) Many believe that marine radiotelegraphy back in the "good old days" was moderately high speed. In fact, it wasn't at all. We ran our wheel at 18WPM which is what W1AW uses for bulletins I think. All the operator afloat had to be able to copy was our and his call signs. He could look the QSX up. Traffic was essentially always handled slower ... 15WPM or below. Press was normally sent at 18-20, it didn't require letter perfect copy. Fists afloat ranged from pretty good to totally awful. Vibroplexes were notoriously hard to slow down to the common speeds. See radiomarine.org/historic-5.html for one ingenious example. 50WPM is fast enough for me. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2009 Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2009 - www.cqp.org ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AD4C2009
Fred wrote:
>50WPM is fast enough for me. 20WPM is fast enough for me Fred. CU in October for the CQP. 73 (Wow, we must be the same age too. just kidding) Fred, AE6IC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by k6dgw
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Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> but they were operators on some rare, private, closed circuit [Apologies to all for this off-topic rambling] I was the R/O on the SS Tampa Bay (KNJA), one of the last of the US Flag, all CW, banana boats. Most of the US Flag ships had long since gone to SITOR or INMARSAT -- we had neither. I used to work WLO every day as we plied the waters of South America and Africa. We handled all traffic at speeds between 25 and 30 WPM and it was rare for a fill either direction. And since we both had full QSK and knew how to use it, fills were nearly instantaneous. I don't know but I suspect the WLO guys were using electronic keyers -- I know I was. (I still use that keyer, a Wm. M. Nye ESK-001 that has keyed everything I've ever plugged it in to.) It was my very strong preference to always send my traffic through WLO because they were quick and efficient. Plus, I could hit them from *anywhere* in the Pacific or Atlantic on 12 or 16 MHz. WLO KNJA ================== ================== Sending wheel CQ "WLO" "DE" "KNJA" "UP" DIT QSY to working frequency and handle traffic. There was one incident where we were in heavy seas and I couldn't even stay seated in the chair. Anyway, I kept making mistakes and finally stopped and apologized to the op at WLO. He came back with something along the lines of "you've got the best fist we work". Now, I'm not *that* great of an op so his comment inspired me to listen to some of the other ships WLO was working -- I do not know how the guys at WLO could even copy them. I could only decipher about a quarter of what they were sending. It was the worst CW I've ever heard and I've *never* heard CW that bad on the ham bands.. I tell you this: those guys at WLO were incredible ops! 73, -Doug, W7KF ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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