Advice on first HF Antenna

[Elecraft mailing list]

Dipole is great. If you want a multiband I have 2 G5RV antennas.  105' for 80m and up and another for 160m and up. Both are reasonable compromises. You must have a tuner.

If you have the KX3 then you will be QRP. I bought a couple hundred feet of insulated 24 ga wire. I have lengths cut for the 15, 20, 30 and 40 m bands. Each wound separately and stored in a plastic pill container. The wire can be had real cheap at Hamfests so losing a run is not a problem.

Bob/nz2z


Bob Bennett
Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2015, at 9:12 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> Send Elecraft mailing list submissions to
>    [hidden email]
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    [hidden email]
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    [hidden email]
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Elecraft digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: New K3SYNA and RTTY (Rich)
>   2. Re: KRX3 & K144XV question (Don Wilhelm)
>   3. Re: KRX3 & K144XV question (Oliver Dr?se)
>   4. Advice on First HF Antenna (CRAIG SCHROEDER)
>   5. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna (Gerald Manthey)
>   6. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna (Dr. William J. Schmidt, II)
>   7.  Advice on First HF Antenna (James Wilson)
>   8. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna (Barry LaZar)
>   9. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna ([hidden email])
>  10. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna (Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT)
>  11. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna (CRAIG SCHROEDER)
>  12. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna (John Kramer)
>  13. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna (David Guernsey)
>  14. Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v- practice
>      fast (Kevin Cozens)
>  15. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna (Don Wilhelm)
>  16. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna (Augie "Gus" Hansen)
>  17. K3S rocking on flat surface - SOLVED! (Dauer, Edward)
>  18. NAQCC Sprint this Tuesday Evening (Larry W2LJ)
>  19. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna (Sfbonk)
>  20. Re: K3S rocking on flat surface - SOLVED! (Don Wilhelm)
>  21. Re: K3S rocking on flat surface - SOLVED! (Bob Novas)
>  22. Re: Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v-
>      practice fast (Robert G Strickland)
>  23. Re: Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v-
>      practice fast (Don Wilhelm)
>  24. Re: Advice on First HF Antenna (Jim Brown)
>  25. Re: Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow -v-
>      practice fast (Robert G Strickland)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:57:52 -0500
> From: Rich <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New K3SYNA and RTTY
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> I am talking about the RX decoding.   I would have no real way of
> knowing which the sender is using.  I guess to be more precise I was
> using Writelog/MMTTY for decoding, however I did watch the K3 display
> every now and then.  The  decode on the K3 was just as accurate.  I was
> sending FSK.
>
> Rich
>
> On 12/7/2015 3:30 PM, efortner wrote:
> Are you using afsk or fsk?
>
> Earl, K4KAY
>
>> On 12/7/2015 3:30 PM, efortner wrote:
>> Are you using afsk or fsk?
>>
>> Earl, K4KAY
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rich
>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 12:19 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] New K3SYNA and RTTY
>>
>> I am seeing dramatic improvements in weak signal RTTY decoding.
>>
>> Are other K3 RTTY contesters out there seeing the same remarkable
>> improvement?
>>
>> Rich
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
>> delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:58:29 -0500
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> To: Alan Muldawer <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KRX3 & K144XV question
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Alan,
>
> Set the Config menu VFO IND to YES.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 12/7/2015 3:58 PM, Alan Muldawer wrote:
>> I have a K3 with the second receiver KRX3 and I also have the internal 2
>> meter card K144XV and what I would like to do is to be on 6 meter, VFO A
>> and to listen to 2 meters on VFO B . I have had no luck! It looks like in
>> the information for K144XV it seems that this is possible :  "If you have a
>> KRX3 sub receiver installed, you can tune HF-6 meters with the sub while
>> operating on 2 meters with the main receiver/transmitter. "
>> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K144XV%20Data%20Sheet%20rev%204sm.pdf
>> I have separate antennas for both bands. The 6 meter antenna is on #2 and
>> the 2 meter antenna is on #3.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 23:00:16 +0100
> From: Oliver Dr?se <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KRX3 & K144XV question
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Alan,
>
> as your quoted instructions say: VFO A on 2 m, VFO B on HF-6. Does not
> work vice versa (as in your request) as the K144XV only connects to the
> main RX (plus the sub RX if you share both, that would mean VFO A + B
> both on 2 m). Also take a look at the RX switching PDF on the Elecraft
> website for deeper insight into possible RX path'.
>
> 73, Olli - DH8BQA
>
> Contest, DX & radio projects: http://www.dh8bqa.de
>
>
>> Am 07.12.2015 um 21:58 schrieb Alan Muldawer:
>> I have a K3 with the second receiver KRX3 and I also have the internal 2
>> meter card K144XV and what I would like to do is to be on 6 meter, VFO A
>> and to listen to 2 meters on VFO B . I have had no luck! It looks like in
>> the information for K144XV it seems that this is possible :  "If you have a
>> KRX3 sub receiver installed, you can tune HF-6 meters with the sub while
>> operating on 2 meters with the main receiver/transmitter. "
>> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K144XV%20Data%20Sheet%20rev%204sm.pdf
>> I have separate antennas for both bands. The 6 meter antenna is on #2 and
>> the 2 meter antenna is on #3.
>> Has anyone been able to do this and how. Thanks!
>> 73 Alan N3ALN
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 16:13:22 -0600
> From: CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Craig
> KD0TXL
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:24:11 -0600
> From: Gerald Manthey <[hidden email]>
> To: CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
>
> Craig
> Do you have the real estate to have dipoles up or are you limited in space?
> Tnx
> Gerald KC6CNN
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:24:51 -0600
> From: "Dr. William J. Schmidt, II" <[hidden email]>
> To: CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>
> How much money do you want to spend?
>
>
> Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ
>
> Owner - Operator
> Big Signal Ranch ? K9ZC
> Staunton, Illinois
>
> Owner ? Operator
> Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ
> Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I.
> Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com
>
> email:  [hidden email]
>
>
>> On Dec 7, 2015, at 4:13 PM, CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Craig
>> KD0TXL
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:31:45 -0600
> From: James Wilson <[hidden email]>
> To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft]  Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID:
>    <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Craig,
> For a first HF antenna, I would suggest not buying but building your basic
> antenna. A Half-Wave wire antenna (made from stranded copper wire from a
> "big box" store) that is resonant (trimmed to the right length) at the
> frequency you want to operate is both fundamental and highly effective.
>
> Take a look at half wave dipole antennas in an ARRL Handbook or Antenna
> Book.
>
> This will get you on the air quite effectively.
>
>> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try
>
>> my hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna,
>
>> primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would
>
>> you recommend?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 22:33:38 +0000
> From: "Barry LaZar" <[hidden email]>
> To: "CRAIG SCHROEDER" <[hidden email]>,
>    "[hidden email]"    <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <em4e75bdaf-7b72-439b-9229-d7f1b6a42229@barry-laptop2>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8
>
> Craig,
>     Let me start with there is such thing as the perfect antenna. Each
> is a compromise. Now having said that, there are several antennas that
> come to mind. First, there is a simple dipole, fan dipole, or off center
> fed dipole. This assumes that you have supports, trees or equal, that
> can allow you to get the antenna up at least 35' and are at least 70'
> apart. I prefer a 40 meter off center fed dipole, OCFD, as it covers all
> the bands, and being off center fed, allow it to be tuned fairly easily.
> A simple 40 meter dipole fed in the center will work on 20, but it will
> require a 4:1 current balun in the system. Fan dipoles can be made to
> operate on both bands, but tuning is interactive.
>
>     If you want to spend ~$600, a Gap Titan is a good antenna. It is a
> bit cumbersome to stand up, but they work. Just make sure the bottom of
> the antenna is about 10' above ground. This height prevents clothes
> lining friends and relatives, and no radials are required.
>
>     There are other antennas. Each has something good or bad, price,
> performance, difficulty, etc. My belief is simple is best. And, the same
> should be true field work.
>
> 73,
> Barry
> K3NDM
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "CRAIG SCHROEDER" <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 12/7/2015 5:13:22 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
>
>> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my
>> hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna,
>> primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you
>> recommend?  Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field
>> antenna for QRP?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Craig
>> KD0TXL
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 22:35:48 +0000 (UTC)
> From: <[hidden email]>
> To: CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]>,
>    "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID:
>    <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Craig, my best advise, ARRL Antenna Book.
> There are way too many variables , and when it comes to Antenna, the only
> high performance Antenna there is, is measured in dbi.
> Go back through the archives here on the forum and you'll find many of educating
> discussion of different antenna subject.
>
> Best of luck, and WELCOME to Ham Radio and Elecraft.
> ((((73)))) Milverton / W9MMS.
>
>      From: CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, December 7, 2015 4:13 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
>
> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at DX'ing!? If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?? Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Craig
> KD0TXL
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 14:41:08 -0800
> From: "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Wire antennas are flexible, work well and are incredibly inexpensive.
>
> Put up as many as you can as big as you can.  If they stay up, they were
> too small.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
>> On 12/7/2015 2:13 PM, CRAIG SCHROEDER wrote:
>> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Craig
>> KD0TXL
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 16:45:35 -0600
> From: CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]>
> To: Gerald Manthey <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Gerald,
>
> I own a large lot with 2 tall trees that could accommodate an 80 meter dipole, and with the cooperation of a friendly neighbor, I could fit 160 meters using his large tree across the back of his property.  My trees run east to west and using the neighbors tree I can run north to south. I'm located almost right in the center of the United States.
>
> Performance is the driving factor, but I world like to stay under $500 for the antenna itself.
>
> BTW, I ordered my KX3 with the internal antenna tuner and roofing filters.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Craig
>
>> On Dec 7, 2015, at 4:24 PM, Gerald Manthey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Craig
>> Do you have the real estate to have dipoles up or are you limited in space?
>> Tnx
>> Gerald KC6CNN
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 00:45:54 +0200
> From: John Kramer <[hidden email]>
> To: CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I can suggest an antenna by www.myantennas.com  Look for their antenna
> called an  EFHW 80-10. It will take 1 KW, and has a low SWR on all bands
> 80/40/30/20/17/15/12/10 bands. It is a half wave design, that I have had
> tremendous success with as a second antenna to my SteppIR beams.
> It is easy and quick to get up, and will serve you well until such time that you
> decide whether to put up a tower and beam. It will also serve well as a portable
> antenna. I have done comparisons to numerous OCFD, Gap Titan vertical,
> G5RV, ZS6BKW, loops and other wire antennas, and in most cases it
> outperformed all of them.
>
> 73
> John ZS5J
>
>
>
>
> On 08 Dec 2015, at 12:13 AM, CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Craig
> KD0TXL
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 22:53:49 +0000 (UTC)
> From: David Guernsey <[hidden email]>
> To: CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]>,
>    "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID:
>    <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> My first HF antenna was an inverted V up?aboutt 30 ft at feed point. It was cut for 20 meters, but worked on 15 and 4o also.?73 de Dave KJ6CBS
>      From: CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, December 7, 2015 4:13 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
>
> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at DX'ing!? If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?? Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Craig
> KD0TXL
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 18:00:17 -0500
> From: Kevin Cozens <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [OT] increasing CW copy speed: practice slow
>    -v- practice fast
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>> On 15-12-07 12:33 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:
>> The DX vocabulary is very small, and it is fairly easy to learn it at high
>> speed. The major words are:
>>
>> CQ, AGN, ?, UP, TU, and your own call sign.
>
> The other major word during a lot of contests, or for DX, is "5nn".
>
> --
> Cheers!
>
> Kevin.
>
> http://www.ve3syb.ca/           |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172      | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
>                                 | powerful!"
> #include <disclaimer/favourite> |             --Chris Hardwick
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 18:39:44 -0500
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> To: CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]>,
>    "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Craig,
>
> For the home station, your first consideration is build or buy.  It is
> quite easy to build a pair of dipoles, one for 40 and one for 20 if
> those are your most desirable bands.  Get some wire, and some good coax
> and a good common mode choke for each antenna and use the ARRL handbook
> section on dipoles to build your own - it is not difficult.
> Look at what you have for antenna supports - the higher the better, but
> for 40 meters, 50 feet is a suggested minimum for good performance.
> If you have only one support that high, an inverted Vee works nicely.
> Use resonant dipoles center fed and feed with 50 ohm coax.  Low loss
> RG8X is almost as low loss as RG8 but not as heavy.  If you are going to
> run power, use the RG-8 or RG-213 right from the start.
>
> With a single tall support, for an inverted Vee configuration, position
> a 40 meter radiator at right angles with a 20 meter radiator and feed
> both with a single feedline.  Being placed at right angles to each
> other, there is little if any interaction.  Get the  ends of the
> inverted Vee radiators up as high as possible - if you can get the ends
> up to the same height as the center, that is great - you will have a
> pair of dipoles, so much the better.
> Put the dipoles up, cut a bit long from what the "formula" tells you,
> and then trim it a bit at a time for the lowest SWR or for a reactance
> of zero should you have access to an antenna analyzer at the midpoint of
> your operating frequency.
>
> If you have room for another dipole, consider adding a multiband antenna
> such as a G5RV so you can explore bands other than 40 and 20.
>
> Use a good common mode choke at the antenna feedpoint (for the G5RV at
> the junction of the parallel feedline and the coax).  You will need a
> tuner for a G5RV or most any other multiband antennas.
>
> If your horizontal space is limited, try a vertical.  I can recommend
> the GAP Titan, being a halfwave vertical, it needs no radials.  Mount
> the base 10 feet off the ground so the loop for 40 meters is above head
> level and use a good common mode choke at the feedpoint.
>
> This is just for starters on your antenna quest.  That quest is an
> ongoing exercise for most hams.
> Do not strive for the "best" antenna for starters, just get something up
> in the air and start operating - with time you will be able to determine
> how you want to improve your antenna farm.
>
> For portable QRP operation, take a look at the End Fed Halfwave antennas
> offered by LNR Precision - They work and they have a good "trail
> friendly" lightweight version.  An EFHW can be easily deployed with one
> end in a tree and the other end near the transmitter.
> If your field operations are more of the picnic table variety than the
> backpacking type, then consider a 32 foot heavy duty telescoping pole to
> hold up the center of an inverted VEE antenna.  Tie the center of a
> dipole antenna to the top of the pole and push it up - anchor the pole
> to whatever vertical support is available with bungy cords.  Extend the
> radiator ends out to whatever bushes or other supports are available.
>
> So my suggestion is to start simple with homebuilt dipoles or other wire
> antennas, then grow your antenna farm after you get on the air and
> determine what you really want, and that may be a 150 foot tower with
> stacked rotating beams sometime in the future.  If you have space and
> want "beam" antennas using wire, consider 4 130 foot wires spaced 45
> degrees apart (total of 180 degrees spread) and you will have V-beams
> that can be steered - a very effective beam on 20 meters, but does
> require some feedline switching to select the pair of radiators to
> properly direct the radiation (it is bi-directional).
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
>> On 12/7/2015 5:13 PM, CRAIG SCHROEDER wrote:
>> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:47:06 -0700
> From: "Augie \"Gus\" Hansen" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>
>
>> On 12/7/2015 3:41 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
>> Wire antennas are flexible, work well and are incredibly inexpensive.
>
> Agreed - you can afford to experiment and learn a lot about antennas by
> building simple wire dipoles and loops before investing big money in
> towers and aluminum. And getting a copy of the ARRL Antenna Book, even
> an old edition at a swap meet or from a ham friend is highly recommended.
>
>> Put up as many as you can as big as you can.  If they stay up, they
>> were too small.
>
> Nah, let's get Craig started in the right direction. When I got into ham
> radio in the 1970s I often heard the expression "if your antenna didn't
> fall down last winter it wasn't big enough." But that's kind of like
> saying "If you're driving on the highway and you don't crash you're not
> driving fast enough."
>
> I prefer to suggest that we should try to design and construct antennas
> well so that they stay up and work right. Putting a pulley and weight on
> the support of one end of a dipole suspended between two trees to
> accommodate tension changes from wind is an example of good technique.
>
> Happy antenna building Craig.
>
> Gus Hansen
> KB0YH
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 23:54:00 +0000
> From: "Dauer, Edward" <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3S rocking on flat surface - SOLVED!
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hmmm . . .   If the parts inventory was accurate at the outset, does this
> mean that somewhere inside there is a standoff that?s 1/32 too short?
>
> Sorry about that . . . Someone once said that it?s a lawyer?s job to worry
> about things that aren?t going to happen.
>
> Ted, KN1CBR
>
>
>
>
> On 12/7/15, 2:36 PM, "[hidden email]"
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Message: 22
>> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 09:43:28 -0800
>> From: Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S rocking on flat surface - SOLVED!
>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>> Uhhh .. it seems we all miss *something*, Bob :-)
>> Good that it resulted only in "rocking on a flat
>> surface" vs. smoke or worse!
>>
>> 73, Phil W7OX
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 18:58:26 -0500
> From: "Larry W2LJ" <[hidden email]>
> To: "elecraft" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] NAQCC Sprint this Tuesday Evening
> Message-ID: <7906379f4a0c754685ff72a2cc433703@192.168.1.4>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="ascii"
>
> The December sprint is this coming Tuesday evening local time (December 8th,
> EDT - 8:30-10:30PM, CDT - 7:30-9:30PM, MDT - 6:30-8:30PM, PDT - 5:30-7:30PM),
> which translates as Wednesday, December 9th, 0130 to 0330Z in all cases.
>
> For all the "official" information, please go to:
>
> http://naqcc.info/sprint201512.html
>
> There you will find all the details as to time, frequencies and other important
> information.
>
> Certificates: SWA (simple wire antennas) certificates by call area, VE and DX
> for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finishers (New!). A Certificate for top score in the
> GAIN antenna category.
>
> Prizes: Too many to list!! - check out the prizes page on our website.
>
> This is a monthly event that caters to the CW veteran, the CW newcomer, straight
> key and bug fans. All are welcome to participate (this includes QRO); but you
> must use QRP power levels to compete for awards.
>
> If you've been hesitant to join in our sprints because you hear other sprints
> running at breakneck speeds, have no fear. Our sprints are geared to the
> newcomer to CW and/or contesting. Virtually everyone including the many veteran
> contesters who regularly enter our sprints will slow down to YOUR speed to help
> you make your contacts.
>
> If you are not already a member of NAQCC... membership is FREE! Now is your
> chance to join the largest QRP CW Club in the world!! We currently have 7100+
> members in: All 50 States - 9 VE Provinces - 100 Countries. Sign up on the
> NAQCC website today (http://naqcc.info/) and receive a handsome certificate,
> with your membership number on it, which is good for life.
>
> Come join us and have a real good time!
>
> And since this is the last REGULAR Sprint for 2015, may I take the opportunity on behalf
> of the NACQQ to wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
>
> 72/73 de Larry W2LJ
> NAQCC #35
>
> for NAQCC
> http://naqcc.info/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:18:12 -0500
> From: Sfbonk <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> Another advantage of the 40 & 20 dipoles is that the 40 dipole should load up well on 15 (while it is still hanging in there prop wise). Will have some gain and the main lobes will be closer to the wire than broadside, so watch the orientation for DX coverage. I put up a G5RV at my vacation home and it loads with a tuner on 80 to 10. Has some gain on the higher bands ,keep in mind that nulls go along with the gain main lobes.
>
> W3OU Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> To: CRAIG SCHROEDER <[hidden email]>; elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Mon, Dec 7, 2015 6:41 pm
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
>
> Craig,
>
> For the home station, your first consideration is build or buy.  It is
> quite easy to build a pair of dipoles, one for 40 and one for 20 if
> those are your most desirable bands.  Get some wire, and some good coax
> and a good common mode choke for each antenna and use the ARRL handbook
> section on dipoles to build your own - it is not difficult.
> Look at what you have for antenna supports - the higher the better, but
> for 40 meters, 50 feet is a suggested minimum for good performance.
> If you have only one support that high, an inverted Vee works nicely.
> Use resonant dipoles center fed and feed with 50 ohm coax.  Low loss
> RG8X is almost as low loss as RG8 but not as heavy.  If you are going to
> run power, use the RG-8 or RG-213 right from the start.
>
> With a single tall support, for an inverted Vee configuration, position
> a 40 meter radiator at right angles with a 20 meter radiator and feed
> both with a single feedline.  Being placed at right angles to each
> other, there is little if any interaction.  Get the  ends of the
> inverted Vee radiators up as high as possible - if you can get the ends
> up to the same height as the center, that is great - you will have a
> pair of dipoles, so much the better.
> Put the dipoles up, cut a bit long from what the "formula" tells you,
> and then trim it a bit at a time for the lowest SWR or for a reactance
> of zero should you have access to an antenna analyzer at the midpoint of
> your operating frequency.
>
> If you have room for another dipole, consider adding a multiband antenna
> such as a G5RV so you can explore bands other than 40 and 20.
>
> Use a good common mode choke at the antenna feedpoint (for the G5RV at
> the junction of the parallel feedline and the coax).  You will need a
> tuner for a G5RV or most any other multiband antennas.
>
> If your horizontal space is limited, try a vertical.  I can recommend
> the GAP Titan, being a halfwave vertical, it needs no radials.  Mount
> the base 10 feet off the ground so the loop for 40 meters is above head
> level and use a good common mode choke at the feedpoint.
>
> This is just for starters on your antenna quest.  That quest is an
> ongoing exercise for most hams.
> Do not strive for the "best" antenna for starters, just get something up
> in the air and start operating - with time you will be able to determine
> how you want to improve your antenna farm.
>
> For portable QRP operation, take a look at the End Fed Halfwave antennas
> offered by LNR Precision - They work and they have a good "trail
> friendly" lightweight version.  An EFHW can be easily deployed with one
> end in a tree and the other end near the transmitter.
> If your field operations are more of the picnic table variety than the
> backpacking type, then consider a 32 foot heavy duty telescoping pole to
> hold up the center of an inverted VEE antenna.  Tie the center of a
> dipole antenna to the top of the pole and push it up - anchor the pole
> to whatever vertical support is available with bungy cords.  Extend the
> radiator ends out to whatever bushes or other supports are available.
>
> So my suggestion is to start simple with homebuilt dipoles or other wire
> antennas, then grow your antenna farm after you get on the air and
> determine what you really want, and that may be a 150 foot tower with
> stacked rotating beams sometime in the future.  If you have space and
> want "beam" antennas using wire, consider 4 130 foot wires spaced 45
> degrees apart (total of 180 degrees spread) and you will have V-beams
> that can be steered - a very effective beam on 20 meters, but does
> require some feedline switching to select the pair of radiators to
> properly direct the radiation (it is bi-directional).
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
>> On 12/7/2015 5:13 PM, CRAIG SCHROEDER wrote:
>> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?  Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:21:07 -0500
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S rocking on flat surface - SOLVED!
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Ted,
>
> Since that builder was able to swap the wrong standoff for the right
> one, I think the inventory would have been correct, but that builder
> simply selected the wrong one during his assembly process.  Not an
> uncommon occurrence - no "lawyering" required.
> 1/32" difference is difficult for some to discern visually - measurement
> may be required.
>
> OTOH, if a wrong part was supplied, [hidden email] is available to
> provide the right part quickly.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 12/7/2015 6:54 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote:
>> Hmmm . . .   If the parts inventory was accurate at the outset, does this
>> mean that somewhere inside there is a standoff that?s 1/32 too short?
>>
>> Sorry about that . . . Someone once said that it?s a lawyer?s job to worry
>> about things that aren?t going to happen.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2015 19:31:25 -0500
> From: "Bob Novas" <[hidden email]>
> To: "'Dauer, Edward'" <[hidden email]>,    <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S rocking on flat surface - SOLVED!
> Message-ID: <022901d1314f$c5c64da0$5152e8e0$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> there's a whole bag  of leftover parts. Kinda  like when I rebuilt my engine.   :)
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dauer,
>> Edward
>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 6:54 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3S rocking on flat surface - SOLVED!
>>
>> Hmmm . . .   If the parts inventory was accurate at the outset, does this
>> mean that somewhere inside there is a standoff that?s 1/32 too short?
>>
>> Sorry about that . . . Someone once said that it?s a lawyer?s job to worry about
>> things that aren?t going to happen.
>>
>> Ted, KN1CBR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/7/15, 2:36 PM, "[hidden email]"
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Message: 22
>>> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 09:43:28 -0800
>>> From: Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]>
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S rocking on flat surface - SOLVED!
>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Uhhh .. it seems we all miss *something*, Bob :-) Good that it resulted
>>> only in "rocking on a flat surface" vs. smoke or worse!
>>>
>>> 73, Phil W7OX
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
>> delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2015 01:27:32 +0000
> From: Robert G Strickland <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed:
>    practice slow -v- practice fast
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Bob's approach to increasing speed once a basic level of cw proficiency
> has been achieved speak directly to my original thoughts on the subject.
> Using a 5-letter group of random letters as the practice message, then
> my question, in terms of Bob's approach, could be stated as follows.
> Which is the quickest way to achieve some target speed: to start the
> group at a speed where only one/two character are correct, or to start
> where three/four are correct? I have no doubt that with the regular and
> intense "concentration" that Bob advocates, any method [within common
> sense limits] will result in higher copying speed. That said, which
> starting point is going to get the operator to the target speed the
> quickest? I don't know. Most of the folks who can comfortably copy at
> speeds in excess of 30wpm seem to be from the "old school" in that many
> learned in the military and have been at it a very long time. I have to
> believe that their speed developed over time with continuous
> usage/practice. Nothing beats time in the saddle. An interesting
> "experiment" would be to take a bunch of hams who can copy at 20wpm,
> divide them into the two approaches being discussed and "measure" how
> long it takes each group to be comfortable at 30/35wpm. A human factors
> issue is a person's task motivation and tolerance for frustration.
> Starting with only one character correct out of five may be pretty
> daunting for some and a piece of cake for others. But, that's a separate
> issue.
>
> Enjoying and learning from the discussion. Thanks Elecraft!
>
> ...robert
>
>> On 12/6/2015 08:00, Robert Harmon wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> We are not discussing entry level code learning.  We are discussing
>> increasing your code speed on receive.  And speed is vitally important !
>> K7QQ is not the only one that can copy high speed CW, there are many of
>> us out here.  Transitioning to higher speed copy can be done through
>> systematic and regular exercise.  I have been a CW operator for over
>> 40 years and it wasn't until fairly late in the game that I accepted the
>> advice from several high speed ops on how to progress past mediocre copy
>> speed.  ( I will share this below)
>> First we need to realize there are two distinct types of training for
>> CW.  The first is developing your rote memorization skills for learning
>> the characters.  I recommend the Farnsworth method for this.  With
>> Farnsworth the characters are sent faster than the words.  For instance
>> at 10 wpm each character is sent at 20 wpm but enough time is added to
>> slow down the rate to 10 wpm.  The ARRL adopted this method years ago
>> for their morse code training materials and the W1AW morse
>> transmissions.  For example when W1AW is sending at 18 wpm the
>> characters are sent at 20 wpm.
>>
>> Now to increase your speed you need to approach your training
>> differently. (which is the subject of Roberts
>> original post)  There are different variations of the training used to
>> increase your speed but they all have a
>> common denominator.  They all in some form or another introduce copying
>> at a faster speed (go figure)
>>
>> Here is what I found to be most effective method for me I learned from
>> other ops.
>> Its great to spend time in the saddle copying QSO's in which your
>> current copying speed will allow, but to really increase your copying
>> speed you need to spend some time exercising your copying abilities each
>> day by practice copying ONLY at speeds faster than you can comfortably
>> copy.  You wont increase your copying speed by always copying at the
>> same comfortable speeds.  Practice at a speed where you are only able to
>> copy one or two characters in each word. Concentrate !!   Do this for
>> only 10 minutes each day.  If you are really concentrating you will find
>> 10 minutes is about when you are ready to throw in the towel for the day
>> anyway Later on after you find you are able to copy about half of the
>> overall text then increase the speed back to where you can only copy one
>> or two characters in each word. (This isn't supposed to be easy this is
>> a training exercise.)
>> Try this only ten minutes a day and see what happens ! Also this needs
>> to be practiced regularly, every day and if you miss a day, no worries,
>> jump back in.   Many hams never improve their speed and are content when
>> they reach around 20 wpm max.  In many chasing DX and contest operating
>> CW activities it gives you an big advantage to be able to operate at
>> higher speeds.  We have all heard the high speed ops during a contest
>> and marvel at how fast their contacts go by.  It is great to be able to
>> match their speed and grab a contact !  Its not that difficult folks,
>> just 10 minutes a day of concentrated practice.  As you are gaining your
>> speed don't get frustrated over losing a word or words when you are in a
>> CW QSO and losing the intelligibility of the conversation,  that happens
>> to all of us and will be remedied when you copying speed is increased.
>> Lastly, you will with practice, increase your "comfortable" copy speed
>> to upwards of 30 to 35 wpm and more.
>> You will be able to really enjoy morse as a language.  You will sit
>> there and listen to sentences and
>> paragraphs go by in your head with complete understanding.  It is very
>> enjoyable !
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Bob
>> K6UJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 12/5/15 11:54 AM, Bill Rowlett wrote:
>>> The best way to learn CW is the same as learning any language, by the
>>> sound of the letters or charters. The speed you use to practice is not
>>> important, it is writing down the letter when heard, over and over
>>> again. K7QO has a CW program on his site which does just that. Also,
>>> it is finding the time and dedication to put in the time needed. K7QO
>>> by the way has won copy contest at over 100wpm, he knows what he speaks.
>>>
>>> Just my two cents. Now, back to the practice.
>>>
>>> 73 and good DX
>>>
>>> Bill  KC4ATU
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 5, 2015, at 2:37 PM, Kevin Stover<[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've always thought the Farnsworth method was directly responsible
>>>> for the "10 wpm wall" newcomers were running into. Reading "The Art
>>>> and Skill of Radio Telegraphy" Pierpont says the same thing. By
>>>> stretching the time between words you give people more time to
>>>> translate. if your going to copy Morse faster than about 10wpm you
>>>> don't have time to translate. You have to know the character as soon
>>>> as you hear it without using the look up table in your head. The Koch
>>>> method has no exaggerated spacing between words or elements. You want
>>>> to be proficient at 35 wpm, you practice with dit/dah and word speed
>>>> set for 35 wpm.
>>>>
>>>> Building speed on the air is great as long as the code you are
>>>> copying is "good" code meaning close to properly spaced and timed
>>>> code. The nice thing about the computer programs is they send perfect
>>>> code. With G4FON you can make it more realistic by adding QRM, QRN
>>>> and QSB in varying levels. The only thing your missing is an old
>>>> timer on his bug sending with the "Lake Erie Swing".
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> R. Kevin Stover
>>>> AC0H
>>>> ARRL
>>>> FISTS #11993
>>>> SKCC #215
>>>> NAQCC #3441
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post:mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post:mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> --
> Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
> [hidden email]
> Syracuse, New York, USA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 20:46:33 -0500
> From: Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]>
> To: Robert G Strickland <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed:
>    practice slow -v- practice fast
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Robert,
>
> What is missing is that each person learns at a different level and
> pace.  Each of us has our brains "wired differently".
> In other words, what will work well for one person does not mean that it
> will work well for all.
> The quickest way to increasing CW speed is to get on the air and start
> copying stations that stretch your current copying speed.  In other
> words, push yourself to higher speeds even if you cannot copy everything.
> ARRL Code Practice is good up to 35 WPM, so try that, but on the air
> conversations may drop you back to 25 WPM because of CW being sent
> imperfectly.
> When you can copy imperfect code (from a bug or keyer without perfect
> spacing), then you have 'arrived'.
>
> There is no substitute for practice - I advocate the 10 minutes a day at
> trying to copy above your comfortable speed limit.  More time than that
> leads to frustration.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>> On 12/7/2015 8:27 PM, Robert G Strickland wrote:
>> Bob's approach to increasing speed once a basic level of cw
>> proficiency has been achieved speak directly to my original thoughts
>> on the subject. Using a 5-letter group of random letters as the
>> practice message, then my question, in terms of Bob's approach, could
>> be stated as follows. Which is the quickest way to achieve some target
>> speed: to start the group at a speed where only one/two character are
>> correct, or to start where three/four are correct? I have no doubt
>> that with the regular and intense "concentration" that Bob advocates,
>> any method [within common sense limits] will result in higher copying
>> speed. That said, which starting point is going to get the operator to
>> the target speed the quickest? I don't know. Most of the folks who can
>> comfortably copy at speeds in excess of 30wpm seem to be from the "old
>> school" in that many learned in the military and have been at it a
>> very long time. I have to believe that their speed developed over time
>> with continuous usage/practice. Nothing beats time in the saddle. An
>> interesting "experiment" would be to take a bunch of hams who can copy
>> at 20wpm, divide them into the two approaches being discussed and
>> "measure" how long it takes each group to be comfortable at 30/35wpm.
>> A human factors issue is a person's task motivation and tolerance for
>> frustration. Starting with only one character correct out of five may
>> be pretty daunting for some and a piece of cake for others. But,
>> that's a separate issue.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:48:48 -0800
> From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Advice on First HF Antenna
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>> On Mon,12/7/2015 2:13 PM, CRAIG SCHROEDER wrote:
>> I am pretty new ham and a brand new KX3/PX3 owner excited to try my hand at DX'ing!  If you were buying your first HF base antenna, primarily looking for performance on 20 and 40 meters, what would you recommend?
>
> Real hams don't BUY antennas, we BUILD them. Antennas are the most
> important part of any station, and until you get into a tri-band beam,
> it is easy to build better than you can buy, and for a tiny fraction of
> the cost.
>
> First, BUY a copy of the ARRL Handbook and the ARRL Antenna Book. STUDY
> (not quick read, but STUDY) these books so that you understand how
> antennas work. Next, STUDY the resources at your real estate -- what's
> available to support one or more wires up in the air?  If the answer is
> nothing, then consider buying a multi-band vertical. Suggestions about
> that later.
>
> If you can support only one point, use it to support one or two "fan"
> dipoles. Build one fan for 80 and 40M, and hang the center from the very
> top of your single support. If you have two supports widely spaced
> enough, hang it between them. Build a second fan dipole for 20, 15 and
> 10M. On these bands, 30-40 ft is a good height. Feed these antennas with
> 50 ohm coax. If the feedline will be much longer than about 100 ft, use
> RG8 to minimize feedline losses.
>
> If you're limited to a vertical, go with the biggest Cushcraft R-series
> you can afford, and try to mount it on your roof. HF verticals work
> better up in the air than on the ground. Again, feed it with 50 ohm
> coax, use the bigger RG8 if the feedline is very long.
>
> There are lots of practical tutorials about how to build antennas on my
> website. k9yc.com/publish.htm  Start with the slide show and the short
> written piece about Antennas For Limited Space.
>
> For portable QRP use -- start with plain ordinary insulated wire. #18 -
> #22 is a good size. Unroll a length close to a quarter wave, toss it
> into a tree, using string or rope to hold it up. Unroll a second length
> close to a quarter wave and connect it to the chassis of the KX3. Much
> cheaper and works far better than so-called QRP antennas that you buy.
> If there are no trees around where you plan to operate, buy one of the
> telescoping fiberglass poles designed to hold wire antennas and tape the
> wire to it that you would have tossed into a tree. Connect the second
> wire to the chassis. There's a photo of me on my qrz.com page doing
> exactly this about 12 years ago at a county park near Chicago. The rig
> is a K2.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>> Also, what do you suggest as a high performance field antenna for QRP?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2015 02:12:37 +0000
> From: Robert G Strickland <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Fwd: Re: [OT] increasing CW copy speed:
>    practice slow -v- practice fast
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Don...
>
> For sure, individual differences make for a big difference, both in the
> rate of learning and the appropriateness of any one approach. I think we
> all agree that "stretching your current copying speed" is the only way
> to get faster. That's certainly my experience. I think my curiosity
> comes down to how much "stretch" is the sweet spot [individual
> difference aside]. Lots of stretch - few characters/words copied, versus
> some stretch - most characters/words copied.
>
> Speaking of individual factors... I was just practicing with Rufz and
> noticed how long I "hang" on the first character which inevitably leads
> to subsequent errors. So, I pushed myself to almost "ignore" the first
> character and move right along. Overall error rate dropped
> significantly. So, yes, lots going on. Nothing beats practicing, for
> sure. Have a good day.
>
> ...robert
>
>> On 12/8/2015 01:46, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Robert,
>>
>> What is missing is that each person learns at a different level and
>> pace.  Each of us has our brains "wired differently".
>> In other words, what will work well for one person does not mean that it
>> will work well for all.
>> The quickest way to increasing CW speed is to get on the air and start
>> copying stations that stretch your current copying speed.  In other
>> words, push yourself to higher speeds even if you cannot copy everything.
>> ARRL Code Practice is good up to 35 WPM, so try that, but on the air
>> conversations may drop you back to 25 WPM because of CW being sent
>> imperfectly.
>> When you can copy imperfect code (from a bug or keyer without perfect
>> spacing), then you have 'arrived'.
>>
>> There is no substitute for practice - I advocate the 10 minutes a day at
>> trying to copy above your comfortable speed limit.  More time than that
>> leads to frustration.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>> On 12/7/2015 8:27 PM, Robert G Strickland wrote:
>>> Bob's approach to increasing speed once a basic level of cw
>>> proficiency has been achieved speak directly to my original thoughts
>>> on the subject. Using a 5-letter group of random letters as the
>>> practice message, then my question, in terms of Bob's approach, could
>>> be stated as follows. Which is the quickest way to achieve some target
>>> speed: to start the group at a speed where only one/two character are
>>> correct, or to start where three/four are correct? I have no doubt
>>> that with the regular and intense "concentration" that Bob advocates,
>>> any method [within common sense limits] will result in higher copying
>>> speed. That said, which starting point is going to get the operator to
>>> the target speed the quickest? I don't know. Most of the folks who can
>>> comfortably copy at speeds in excess of 30wpm seem to be from the "old
>>> school" in that many learned in the military and have been at it a
>>> very long time. I have to believe that their speed developed over time
>>> with continuous usage/practice. Nothing beats time in the saddle. An
>>> interesting "experiment" would be to take a bunch of hams who can copy
>>> at 20wpm, divide them into the two approaches being discussed and
>>> "measure" how long it takes each group to be comfortable at 30/35wpm.
>>> A human factors issue is a person's task motivation and tolerance for
>>> frustration. Starting with only one character correct out of five may
>>> be pretty daunting for some and a piece of cake for others. But,
>>> that's a separate issue.
>
> --
> Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
> [hidden email]
> Syracuse, New York, USA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> You must be a subscriber to post.
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Elecraft Digest, Vol 140, Issue 11
> *****************************************

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[w7aqk]

Craig and all,

You have received a lot of advice, and most of it was probably pretty good
advice.  I would want to know a few more things about your situation if I
were to make any recommendations which I thought were very precise.  Of the
responses I read, I think the best ones (my opinion) came from Don Wilhelm
and Jim Brown.  Don focused on your stated preference for 40 and 20 meters,
and Jim added some good advice about vertical alternatives.

You didn't say exactly what flexibility you have about erecting an
antenna--trees, space, etc.  If you want to work DX, you need to try and get
your antenna up in the air as high as possible--at least 40 ft. or more.
That's particularly important if all you are able to do is run at near QRP
levels with a barefoot KX3.  Resonant dipoles for 40 and 20, at a decent
height, should allow you to achieve some success, and they are relatively
easy to construct.

You don't mention if you have a tuner, or if you purchased the ATU accessory
for the KX3.  If you don't have either, you should probably invest in one.
The KX3's internal ATU is excellent, but even a simple tuner like an MFJ,
can give you several added options.  One is a single dipole fed with
balanced feed line, which will probably allow you to operate several other
bands.  When using balanced feed line and an internal ATU, a balun like the
Elecraft BL-2 may be a necessary addition.  That is switchable between 1:1
and 4:1, and the 1:1 setting will probably be your best option generally.
This can be a very versatile arrangement, and not difficult or expensive to
construct.  you can erect it as a horizontal dipole or an inverted vee,
depending on what you have available for supports.

Several responders mentioned commercial alternatives.  End Fed Half Waves,
like those from PAR Electronics (now LNR) do work quite well.  Some models
are power limited, so choose accordingly.  The Par 10/20/40 is a good choice
to match the KX3, but again, you should try and get it up in the air as high
as you can.

Commercial multi-band verticals can be expensive, but I like Jim Brown's
recommendation for something in the Cushcraft R series.  I've used an R8
(and also the R7 which preceded it) for years with very good results.  As
Jim says, put it up off the ground if at all possible.  Mine is about 15
feet above the ground, and works considerably better than when I tried it
ground mounted.  Some others mentioned a Gap Titan, which will give you 80
meters as well (the R8 only goes down to 40 meters), but performance on that
band is very marginal!  You would probably be much better off with the
dipole/balanced feed line system I mention above so long as you can make the
radiator part at least 100 ft. long or so.  An 88 ft. version suggested by
L.B. Cebik (SK), who was a highly regarded "guru" on antennas, can work very
well, but will test the capabilities of your tuner on 80 meters.  Also,
comparing the Gap Titan to the R8 was something done quite extensively by
Ward Silver, N0AX, who is well known for his expertise.  Overall, the R8 was
the better antenna, but it does not cover 80 meters.   If you look around,
you might find a good used one of either model, and save a bunch of bucks!

A lot of people will tell you that nothing beats resonant dipoles.  They are
probably right.  However, you may not be blessed with lots of space or other
important aspects necessary for having such, so a single dipole and balanced
line, and a good tuner, can make up for a lot of sins.  The balanced feed
line will help you keep your efficiency up when multi-banding so long as you
have a tuner to do the matching.  Using coax on such a system will introduce
significant loss unless the matching is all done at the feed point.
Otherwise, you might see a decent SWR, but your output will be significantly
reduced.

Hope you are not totally confused by all of this.  Just remember that your
antenna is an extremely important part of your overall system, and needs a
lot of consideration and effort to really enhance your results.  You have a
very nice radio, but it won't do much unless you put a decent antenna on the
end of it.

Dave W7AQK


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Edward R Cole]

Simplest first HF antenna is a half-wave dipole.

My first antenna was a 40m dipole hung from trees with lead in run in
thru an upstairs window to my radio.

Actually this was in 1958 and I was 14 years old so had no
money.  Back in those years there was something called twin-lead
which was used as feedline for TV antennas and was cheap.  I made a
folded-dipole and used another piece of twin lead as feedline which I
soldered into a PL-259 which I connected to my three tube receiver
(which I also built from a kit).

Yeah that was connected wrong and it had high SWR but it received
just fine.  Later it worked well connected to my Heath DX-35 which
could load anything.  I would not know anything about SWR for a
couple years but had just a lot of fun with that wire antenna.  It
was probably 15 to 25 foot off the ground and put up with something
called "clothesline".  Back in those years people hung their clothes
outside in the sun to dry attached to clothesline with something
called clothes pins.

OH well, that is how I, a pretty ignorant 8th grader, started out in
ham radio on 40m (and it would also work on 15m).  It received all
bands pretty well.  10m AM in 1958 was something to have
experienced.  No one will every see conditions like that sunspot
maximum again (well for a couple hundred years, anyway).

How long is a half-wave dipole?
L = 468/F, where L is in inches and F is in MHz
40m band F=7.2 MHz, L = 65 inches

This is on page 580 in my 1972 ARRL Handbook (yes I still have it).
to see what I have today, check out my website (link below)

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
     "Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
     [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

I think that should be 65 feet.

73 -- Lynn

On 12/7/2015 9:22 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
> How long is a half-wave dipole?
> L = 468/F, where L is in inches and F is in MHz
> 40m band F=7.2 MHz, L = 65 inches

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]