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Aliens showing "Displeasure?"

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JIM DAVIS-11

Aliens showing "Displeasure?"

Gentlemen,

I'm experiencing an ODD rather broad noise USUALLY on 20m @ the lower end of the band (CW) between
14.020 up to about 14.060mhz. It's sort of a mid-pitch level "GROWL" that VARIES in frequency
(traveling) up and down the aforementioned frequencies, and sometimes more noticeable in the lower
reaches of the CW segment like around 14.030mhz. But again it does'nt stay in one place it moves
up and down the band!!!

ANY IDEAS on what maybe causing this weird noise, and I might add it happens on a "daily-basis"!
It
started occurring about 4 months ago and it's really got me scratching our "NOGGIN"!!!

Jim/nn6ee
S/N 2406 (K3)

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Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU

Re: Aliens showing "Displeasure?"

Administrator

It sounds like a switching power supply, such as in a charger or device
power supply.
If you can do it, turn off your house breakers one at a time to see if
if it's in your house.
Try a search on rfi @ contesting.com mailing list.

Leigh/WA5ZNU

> Gentlemen,
>
> I'm experiencing an ODD rather broad noise USUALLY on 20m @ the lower end of the band (CW) between
> 14.020 up to about 14.060mhz. It's sort of a mid-pitch level "GROWL" that VARIES in frequency
> (traveling) up and down the aforementioned frequencies, and sometimes more noticeable in the lower
> reaches of the CW segment like around 14.030mhz. But again it does'nt stay in one place it moves
> up and down the band!!!
>
> ANY IDEAS on what maybe causing this weird noise, and I might add it happens on a "daily-basis"!
> It
> started occurring about 4 months ago and it's really got me scratching our "NOGGIN"!!!
>
> Jim/nn6ee
> S/N 2406 (K3)
>
>

Ken Kopp-3

Re: Aliens showing "Displeasure?"

Don't forget touch lamps .... notorious sources of noise.

(I spent about 15 years chasing noise for a public utility.)

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[hidden email]
http://tinyurl.com/7lm3m5

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Byron N6NUL

Re: Aliens showing "Displeasure?"

On Nov 30, 2009, at 9:19 PM, Ken Kopp wrote:

> Don't forget touch lamps .... notorious sources of noise.

What is a "touch lamp" ?

Byron
KI6NUL

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Ken Kopp-3

Touch lamps

Hi Byron,

A "touch lamp" is a lamp that is turned ON and OFF by
touching ... usually a table lamp of some sort ... with the
base / stand responding to the capacity of one's hand
for the switching action. Basically the lamp has a
free-running oscillator that is "detuned" when the lamp
is touched, causing the switching action. I'm aware of
some that operate in the 80M range.

Once took a crew on a 400+ mile round-trip ... Montana's
a big state ... to respond to a ham's line noise complaint.
After much searching, involving switching off the power to
an entire block, and then to individual houses, found two
touch-lamps in the bedroom of his parent's house next
door. (;-)

Some light dimmers are noise generators, also.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[hidden email]
http://tinyurl.com/7lm3m5

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Steve Ellington

Re: Touch lamps

Oh how well I know! We had a touch lamp that produced a signal at 450khz so
strong it could be heard for blocks. I gutted the circuit and installed a
line cord switch. I suspect my neighbor has one now and I'm trying to figure
out how to approach him about it.
Steve
N4LQ
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Kopp" <[hidden email]>
To: "Byron Servies" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:08 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Touch lamps

> Hi Byron,
>
> A "touch lamp" is a lamp that is turned ON and OFF by
> touching ... usually a table lamp of some sort ... with the
> base / stand responding to the capacity of one's hand
> for the switching action. Basically the lamp has a
> free-running oscillator that is "detuned" when the lamp
> is touched, causing the switching action. I'm aware of
> some that operate in the 80M range.
>
> Once took a crew on a 400+ mile round-trip ... Montana's
> a big state ... to respond to a ham's line noise complaint.
> After much searching, involving switching off the power to
> an entire block, and then to individual houses, found two
> touch-lamps in the bedroom of his parent's house next
> door. (;-)
>
> Some light dimmers are noise generators, also.
>
> 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
> [hidden email]
> http://tinyurl.com/7lm3m5
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.88/2538 - Release Date: 12/01/09
02:59:00

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Jim Wiley-2

Re: Touch lamps

To start with, visit the neighbor and explain the problem. They will
think you are nuts, but it you ask them if they have any
touch-controlled devices, and the answer is yes, then you may be able to
get them to unplug or temporarily power-down any such devices to see if
the interference stops. If it doesn't them try the next device or look
elsewhere. if the interference quits when the device is disconnected,
you can take the next steps.

Be the way, it isn't just touch control lamps. I experiences a similar
problem with an automatic battery charger that had a semiconductor based
controller - it put out a "wavery - drifty" signal at spots all across
the lower part of the HF spectrum.

You can point out to him that the part 15 rules REQUIRE him to cease
using any device that causes interferences to a licensed radio service
(that's us). If you don't like that approach, you might take the tack
that his lamp isn't supposed to be transmitting signals, and maybe it is
defective, and defective electrical devices have been known to cause
fires. If that doesn't work, send a note to the FCC, and they will in
turn send the neighbor a more "official" communication that explains the
part 15 rules in detail and outlines and what he or she needs to do.
That last can escalate to some pretty powerful language after a few
iterations or so. That's what that "radio interference" notice on the
device is all about. Fines are not unknown in these cases - rarely
assessed, it's true, but not impossible.

The neighbor may be able to take the lamp or other interfering device
back to where they got it and get a refund or replacement. You can
offer to go with them, taking a portable radio that tunes the
frequencies of interest, to make sure any new offerings are "clean"
before they leave the store. In any case, NEVER offer to fix the device
yourself. If you do, and _anything_ electrical in their house ever
fails from that day forward, it will be seen as your fault.

I know everyone likes to be neighborly and all that, but this sort of
thing won't get fixed until enough complaints are heard to cause action
on the part of manufacturers. If the neighbor is mad at the store for
selling him a product that causes problems, then encourage him to
complain to the store manager. One complaint won't do much, but over
time, enough of them will cause sufficient negative feedback that the
mess gets fixed. Of course, if you just want to "roll over" and put up
with the problem, that's your call.

- Jim, KL7CC

Steve Ellington wrote:
> I suspect my neighbor has one now and I'm trying to figure
> out how to approach him about it.
> Steve
> N4LQ
>
>
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Dunc Carter - W5DC

Re: Touch lamps

I had two tough controlled reading lamps in my bedroom. They didn't
cause rfi but they changed on/off state each time I transmitted.
Ferrite clamps didn't change the sensitivity of the lamps to RF. I
replaced them with manual switch controlled lamps; my #2 son who is not
a ham has them now.

73m Dunc, W5DC

Jim Wiley wrote:

> To start with, visit the neighbor and explain the problem. They will
> think you are nuts, but it you ask them if they have any
> touch-controlled devices, and the answer is yes, then you may be able to
> get them to unplug or temporarily power-down any such devices to see if
> the interference stops. If it doesn't them try the next device or look
> elsewhere. if the interference quits when the device is disconnected,
> you can take the next steps.
>
>
> Be the way, it isn't just touch control lamps. I experiences a similar
> problem with an automatic battery charger that had a semiconductor based
> controller - it put out a "wavery - drifty" signal at spots all across
> the lower part of the HF spectrum.
>
>
> You can point out to him that the part 15 rules REQUIRE him to cease
> using any device that causes interferences to a licensed radio service
> (that's us). If you don't like that approach, you might take the tack
> that his lamp isn't supposed to be transmitting signals, and maybe it is
> defective, and defective electrical devices have been known to cause
> fires. If that doesn't work, send a note to the FCC, and they will in
> turn send the neighbor a more "official" communication that explains the
> part 15 rules in detail and outlines and what he or she needs to do.
> That last can escalate to some pretty powerful language after a few
> iterations or so. That's what that "radio interference" notice on the
> device is all about. Fines are not unknown in these cases - rarely
> assessed, it's true, but not impossible.
>
> The neighbor may be able to take the lamp or other interfering device
> back to where they got it and get a refund or replacement. You can
> offer to go with them, taking a portable radio that tunes the
> frequencies of interest, to make sure any new offerings are "clean"
> before they leave the store. In any case, NEVER offer to fix the device
> yourself. If you do, and _anything_ electrical in their house ever
> fails from that day forward, it will be seen as your fault.
>
>
> I know everyone likes to be neighborly and all that, but this sort of
> thing won't get fixed until enough complaints are heard to cause action
> on the part of manufacturers. If the neighbor is mad at the store for
> selling him a product that causes problems, then encourage him to
> complain to the store manager. One complaint won't do much, but over
> time, enough of them will cause sufficient negative feedback that the
> mess gets fixed. Of course, if you just want to "roll over" and put up
> with the problem, that's your call.
>
>
> - Jim, KL7CC
>
>
>
> Steve Ellington wrote:
>
>> I suspect my neighbor has one now and I'm trying to figure
>> out how to approach him about it.
>> Steve
>> N4LQ
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

Bob & Debbie Fish

Re: Touch lamps

Hi Guys,

A few years ago I was up late at night and decided to send a couple of
late night CQ's on 40 meters. On about my third CQ
my wife appeared at the door to my shack looking very upset. She had
gone to bed a couple of hours earlier and was awakened
by the touch lamps blinking on either side of our bed in what was a very
dark room. We had just installed the lamps for reading a
few weeks before and neither of us had been back there while I was
transmitting so we didn't know they did this. My wife doesn't
know much about radio so the first thing she thought wasn't RFI. She was
convinced our house was under siege from demonic spirits.
It took awhile before she saw the humor in this episode. Of course every
time I think about it it makes me smile.

Bob K6GGO

> I had two tough controlled reading lamps in my bedroom. They didn't
> cause rfi but they changed on/off state each time I transmitted.
> Ferrite clamps didn't change the sensitivity of the lamps to RF. I
> replaced them with manual switch controlled lamps; my #2 son who is not
> a ham has them now.
>
> 73m Dunc, W5DC
>
>
>

Mel

Re: Touch lamps

Many years ago, I build a full size vertical for 160 M with 19 full length radials, see, "W6SAI HF antenna handbook, section 6-17". OK so far. In testing, I found the ground currents and the close in field substantial at 1 KW. One of the storage building was about 60 feet from the base of the tower and one night the wife was out there cleaning up some gardening efforts right next to a rack that had 8 foot flourescent tubes, Are you ready?

I keyed the amplifier and called CQ. At the end of my CQ, there was my wife standing in the doorway and looked like a ghost of the scarecrow with some liquid dripping off her head and covered with lawn seed she was putting away.

Needless to say the tubes lit off by the RF had startled her. We didn't talk about that for a long time, until the next Halloween. I keyed the transmitter with a long memory CQ and then you can see me with a sheet over my head running around the back yard between the houses waving 8 foot tubes that were looking like Skywalker and his light sabers. The neighbor kids didn't come to our house that night.

Memories of times past,

Mel, K6KBE

--- On Tue, 12/1/09, Robert Fish <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Robert Fish <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Touch lamps
To: "Duncan Carter" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Ken Kopp" <[hidden email]>, "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, December 1, 2009, 1:48 PM

Hi Guys,

A few years ago I was up late at night and decided to send a couple of
late night CQ's on 40 meters. On about my third CQ
my wife appeared at the door to my shack looking very upset. She had
gone to bed a couple of hours earlier and was awakened
by the touch lamps blinking on either side of our bed in what was a very
dark room. We had just installed the lamps for reading a
few weeks before and neither of us had been back there while I was
transmitting so we didn't know they did this. My wife doesn't
know much about radio so the first thing she thought wasn't RFI. She was
convinced our house was under siege from demonic spirits.
It took awhile before she saw the humor in this episode. Of course every
time I think about it it makes me smile.

Bob K6GGO

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Rich

Re: Aliens showing "Displeasure?"

In reply to this post by JIM DAVIS-11

Some of the newer electric blankets have a CHEAP switching P/S similar to those on laptop power supplies. Check them out too - good possibility as nights are colder. Some stay on whenever plugged in others cycle on and off. Some also have an IR controlled temperature control (at least mine does) that would cause the load to vary and thus the frequency. I need to unplug mine when using the radio. I threw one away that had NO filtering of any type (not even a rf choke or ferrite core) inside the white plastic box containing the switching P/S.

Rich

JIM DAVIS-11 wrote

Gentlemen,

I'm experiencing an ODD rather broad noise USUALLY on 20m @ the lower end of the band (CW) between
14.020 up to about 14.060mhz.

WD6DBM

Re: Touch Lamps

In reply to this post by Ken Kopp-3

Back In my youth I lived in this little grandmother cottage (converted garage) behind a house in San Jose. One day, after I had been on 75 meters the previous night with my HW-101 and SB-220 (the cottage didn't have a 230V line but did have both sides so I made a 230V "extension cord"), the neighbor in the front house came back to talk to me. His wife had heard a loud "WOH-WOH-WOH" coming from the TV set (not turned on) the previous night around midnight while he was working the graveyard shift. She was scared out of her mind that the TV was poseessed by Satan. She bundled up their 6-month old son and drove immediately to her mother's house in Sacramento.

This was when those cheap, non Western Electric phones had just flooded the market. While she was out of the house a few days later, we tracked down the source to that cheap phone rectifying the RF and broadcasting harmonics all over the place. I think I gave them a new phone. Problem solved.

73, Eric WD6DBM
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