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An interested link

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AD4C2009

An interested link

Some ones might be interested to read this:

http://www.essb.us/index.html

AD4C

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits". -- Albert Einstein

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juergen piezo

Re: An interested link

A good link for learning how to generate splatter. ESSB has no place on the HF bands. Just about everyone of these ESSB stations cause a lot of interference on adjacent frequencies.

This curse called ESSB has spread around the world. Just about every second JA SSB station that I hear has such excessive amount of bass frequencies. Its bad enough having to deal with accents without someone sounding like a monkey in a drain pipe.

The YB stations are the worst. Ask anyone about the splatter on the 40 meter band caused by YB stations running ESSB equipment flat out. They are causing havoc on the CW end of the band with buckshot. This ESSB practice has become the ham version of CB amplified microphone practice, all knobs to the right!

It was such a pleasure tuning across the 20 meter band with the Scandinavian contest running. All the Scandinavian stations were all using excellent communications quality well processed audio, it was a pure delight to my ears. Even stations that were S1 could be understood.

I must also congratulate all the Scandinavians for operating their equipment with such professionalism. There was hardly any splatter from most of the big guns. 40 db over S9 signals and all were clean, amazing.

I was using a club station K3. The Narrow SSB filters combined with DSP filtering are superb in contest conditions. I even had 1 or 2 stations pegging the K3's S-meter. I just adjusted the narrow bandwidth and they were gone like magic.

The good think about contests these days is that you dont hear any ESSB bassy audio stations around. I am starting to love contesters just for this reason alone! I used to hate contesters, now I appreciate them like a good symphony orchestra, especially when they run well adjusted SSB transmitters. Yup, you can blame ESSB for my born again conversion!

John

--- On Sat, 9/26/09, Hector Padron <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Hector Padron <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] An interested link
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 6:30 PM
> Some ones might be interested to read
> this:
>
> http://www.essb.us/index.html
>
> AD4C
>
>
> "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius
> has its limits". -- Albert Einstein
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Johnny Siu

Re： An interested link

I would like to add that we, VR2, are also suffering from CB type splatter generated from YB stations. Their audio is just so easy to be recognised.

Again, it has been what I experienced on air and without any intention to bad month any individual YB station.

73

Johnny VR2XMC

________________________________
寄件人﹕ juergen piezo <[hidden email]>
收件人 [hidden email]
傳送日期﹕ 2009/9月/27 (星期日) 11:22:11 AM
主題： Re: [Elecraft] An interested link

A good link for learning how to generate splatter. ESSB has no place on the HF bands. Just about everyone of these ESSB stations cause a lot of interference on adjacent frequencies.

This curse called ESSB has spread around the world. Just about every second JA SSB station that I hear has such excessive amount of bass frequencies. Its bad enough having to deal with accents without someone sounding like a monkey in a drain pipe.

The YB stations are the worst. Ask anyone about the splatter on the 40 meter band caused by YB stations running ESSB equipment flat out. They are causing havoc on the CW end of the band with buckshot. This ESSB practice has become the ham version of CB amplified microphone practice, all knobs to the right!

It was such a pleasure tuning across the 20 meter band with the Scandinavian contest running. All the Scandinavian stations were all using excellent communications quality well processed audio, it was a pure delight to my ears. Even stations that were S1 could be understood.

I must also congratulate all the Scandinavians for operating their equipment with such professionalism. There was hardly any splatter from most of the big guns. 40 db over S9 signals and all were clean, amazing.

I was using a club station K3. The Narrow SSB filters combined with DSP filtering are superb in contest conditions. I even had 1 or 2 stations pegging the K3's S-meter. I just adjusted the narrow bandwidth and they were gone like magic.

The good think about contests these days is that you dont hear any ESSB bassy audio stations around. I am starting to love contesters just for this reason alone! I used to hate contesters, now I appreciate them like a good symphony orchestra, especially when they run well adjusted SSB transmitters. Yup, you can blame ESSB for my born again conversion!

John

--- On Sat, 9/26/09, Hector Padron <[hidden email]> wrote:

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David Gilbert

Re: An interested link

In reply to this post by AD4C2009

The History section of that web site applauds the fact that ESSB
enthusiasts have been able to push their 3 KHz bandwidth rigs to 4 KHz
and beyond using external equalization, and it points out that the
leading edge for EESB is now moving past 6 KHz in transmitted bandwidth
thanks to some of the new SDR rigs. Here are a couple of illuminating
and disturbing quotes:

"It's becoming more recognized that the improved fidelity of ESSB has
signal-to-noise advantages over the old traditional forms of narrower SSB"

"... with the decline of new amateur radio operators to populate the
bands, the wider bandwidth necessary for high quality SSB is not as much
of an issue as it was 10 or 20 years ago."

One of the hams lauded in that section for his work with ESSB lived near
me when I was still in Scottsdale, and you could hear his splatter as
much as plus/minus 8 KHz when he was on the air with his buddies on 20m
in the evening. He was a casual friend of mine so I mentioned it to
him, and his dismissive answer was that he must be overdriving my rig
... even though I told him that I had checked for that by using a piece
of wire for an antenna to keep his signal below S7. I often monitored
those guys while I was doing work-related stuff on the computer. They
constantly tweaked their equalizers and critiqued the sound of each
other's modulation, but I never once heard any of them check to see how
wide they were.

I have no problem at all with people experimenting with ESSB as long as
they avoid interference with other activity on the band, but promoting
ESSB as a mainstream mode on the HF bands seems to me to be the same as
advocating an across-the-board return to AM, complete with its power
inefficiencies and waste of spectrum. I just don't get it.

It's just another reason for me to stick with CW, I guess ...

Dave AB7E

Hector Padron wrote:

> Some ones might be interested to read this:
>
> http://www.essb.us/index.html
>
> AD4C
>
>
> "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits". -- Albert Einstein
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: An interested link

> "It's becoming more recognized that the improved fidelity of ESSB
> has signal-to-noise advantages over the old traditional forms of
> narrower SSB"
>
> "... with the decline of new amateur radio operators to populate
> the bands, the wider bandwidth necessary for high quality SSB is
> not as much of an issue as it was 10 or 20 years ago."

Both of these "facts" are complete falsehoods and are the very
reason that the FCC needs to define acceptable bandwidth
based emission standards below 30 MHz. Specifically, "SSB"
should be limited to a 2800 Hz bandwidth consistent with other
SSB based "communications" services regulated by the FCC and/or
NTIA. Similarly, AM - except for legacy equipment - should be
limited to 6 KHz bandwidth. In other words, the maximum
modulating frequency should be set at 3 KHz - or no more than
3200 Hz.

There is no difference between those who operate "ESSB" (wide
SSB) and those who continue to use transmitters with excessive
key clicks and/or transmitted phase noise on CW. Such operation
is not consistent with "good engineering practice." Those who
want to operate wideband and hi-fi modes should do so with
wideband FM on frequencies above 440 MHz.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David Gilbert
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:23 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] An interested link
>
>
>
> The History section of that web site applauds the fact that ESSB
> enthusiasts have been able to push their 3 KHz bandwidth rigs
> to 4 KHz
> and beyond using external equalization, and it points out that the
> leading edge for EESB is now moving past 6 KHz in transmitted
> bandwidth
> thanks to some of the new SDR rigs. Here are a couple of
> illuminating
> and disturbing quotes:
>
> "It's becoming more recognized that the improved fidelity of ESSB has
> signal-to-noise advantages over the old traditional forms of
> narrower SSB"
>
> "... with the decline of new amateur radio operators to populate the
> bands, the wider bandwidth necessary for high quality SSB is
> not as much
> of an issue as it was 10 or 20 years ago."
>
> One of the hams lauded in that section for his work with ESSB
> lived near
> me when I was still in Scottsdale, and you could hear his splatter as
> much as plus/minus 8 KHz when he was on the air with his
> buddies on 20m
> in the evening. He was a casual friend of mine so I mentioned it to
> him, and his dismissive answer was that he must be overdriving my rig
> ... even though I told him that I had checked for that by
> using a piece
> of wire for an antenna to keep his signal below S7. I often
> monitored
> those guys while I was doing work-related stuff on the
> computer. They
> constantly tweaked their equalizers and critiqued the sound of each
> other's modulation, but I never once heard any of them check
> to see how
> wide they were.
>
> I have no problem at all with people experimenting with ESSB
> as long as
> they avoid interference with other activity on the band, but
> promoting
> ESSB as a mainstream mode on the HF bands seems to me to be
> the same as
> advocating an across-the-board return to AM, complete with its power
> inefficiencies and waste of spectrum. I just don't get it.
>
> It's just another reason for me to stick with CW, I guess ...
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>
> Hector Padron wrote:
> > Some ones might be interested to read this:
> >
> > http://www.essb.us/index.html
> >
> > AD4C
> >
> >

Dave, G4AON

Re: An interested link

In reply to this post by AD4C2009

Fortunately the K3 is quite good on AM transmit, unlike legacy equipment
often used. I don't know about elsewhere, but here in the UK there are
80m AM nets where some of the stations run original AM gear without any
additional audio filtering, one was measured at +/- 12 KHz by a fellow
ham with an SDR receiver. The operator seemed indifferent to the fact
his transmission was excessively wide and carried on regardless. The guy
who measured the wide signal used home built AM gear himself, but had a
multi-pole active filter of a similar specification to that used by
broadcast stations to achieve their "skyscraper" envelopes as seen on a
panoramic adapter or SDR receiver.

The UK license has the clause "The bandwidths of emissions should be
such as to ensure the most efficient utilisation of the spectrum".

73 Dave, G4AON
K3/100 #80

Joe, W4TV wrote:

Similarly, AM - except for legacy equipment - should be
limited to 6 KHz bandwidth. In other words, the maximum
modulating frequency should be set at 3 KHz - or no more than
3200 Hz.
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David Cutter

Re: An interested link

There might be 2 distinct problems: a) the bandwidth of the signal you
think you have and b) splatter caused by over-modulating and over-driving.

Starting with a wide-ish signal of say 6 or 7kHz, ie dsb full carrier might
be ok in uncrowded bands, but add badly adjusted modulation and drive to
another badly adjusted amplifier (a non-linear linear amplifier) and you've
got double trouble that can be heard across the world even worse than
over-driving ssb. Couple that with the sort of drift those boat-anchors are
capable of and I can see why they have a bad reputation. All of which can
be corrected by proper adjustment which takes more skill and understanding
not now taught.

David
G3UNA

> Fortunately the K3 is quite good on AM transmit, unlike legacy equipment
> often used. I don't know about elsewhere, but here in the UK there are
> 80m AM nets where some of the stations run original AM gear without any
> additional audio filtering, one was measured at +/- 12 KHz by a fellow
> ham with an SDR receiver. The operator seemed indifferent to the fact
> his transmission was excessively wide and carried on regardless. The guy
> who measured the wide signal used home built AM gear himself, but had a
> multi-pole active filter of a similar specification to that used by
> broadcast stations to achieve their "skyscraper" envelopes as seen on a
> panoramic adapter or SDR receiver.
>
> The UK license has the clause "The bandwidths of emissions should be
> such as to ensure the most efficient utilisation of the spectrum".
>
> 73 Dave, G4AON
> K3/100 #80
>
> Joe, W4TV wrote:
>
> Similarly, AM - except for legacy equipment - should be
> limited to 6 KHz bandwidth. In other words, the maximum
> modulating frequency should be set at 3 KHz - or no more than
> 3200 Hz.
>

AD4C2009

Re: An interested link

This is how I see the use of ESSB, nobody should have more than 3Khz maximun bandwith on TX,with less than 3Khz you will be able still to have an excellent audio quality,normally a radio that has a freq response from 100 to 3100 Hz for a total of 3Khz BW will always sound great so far mic and comp levels be properly adjusted not to compress the audio too much,even Icom radios that respond from 70 to 2900hz sound all terrific,but anything beyond that bandwith will sound moody and splatters will be terrible all over.
On the other hand splatters are not only confined to ESSB,a normal high pitch or normal 2.4Khz bandwith could also has same or maybe more splatters IF the operator doesn't know how to properly set his station,probe of that is the contests where most of the stations trying to brake the pile-ups sqeeze their compressors to the maximun and also overdriving their amps to reach the station they want and therefor band becomes the battle camp and splatters are all over.
So either way ESSB or non ESSB can create damage to the bands.
Its just good amateur practices what makes a clean signal.

AD4C

"To have or not to have a K3,that is the question"

--- On Sun, 9/27/09, David Cutter <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: David Cutter <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] An interested link
To: "Dave G4AON" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:19 PM

There might be 2 distinct problems: a) the bandwidth of the signal you
think you have and b) splatter caused by over-modulating and over-driving.

Starting with a wide-ish signal of say 6 or 7kHz, ie dsb full carrier might
be ok in uncrowded bands, but add badly adjusted modulation and drive to
another badly adjusted amplifier (a non-linear linear amplifier) and you've
got double trouble that can be heard across the world even worse than
over-driving ssb. Couple that with the sort of drift those boat-anchors are
capable of and I can see why they have a bad reputation. All of which can
be corrected by proper adjustment which takes more skill and understanding
not now taught.

David
G3UNA

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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