Anyone using a DESpole?
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I'm looking at an interesting antenna, the Innovantennas DESpole (see
<http://despole.com/> ). Does anyone have any experience with it? -- 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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On Tue,5/12/2015 9:00 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:
> I'm looking at an interesting antenna, the Innovantennas DESpole (see > <http://despole.com/> ). Does anyone have any experience with it? > -- Hi Vic, I think it's a brand new product. This is a very good company, their other products are first rate. On your rooftop, its vertical pattern will be subject to the same advantages and shortcomings as your existing antenna. Note that they are comparing it to a 43 ft vertical, which is not a very good performer above 20M. If you haven't already done so, take a look at my presentation about the 43 ft vertical. I think you've already seen the one about "should I put it on my roof." :) 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal
Vic,
Look at the H Pole antenna. I just built one and am holding it up by a single halyard in a tree in my yard. It appears to work pretty well and should fit almost any yard/garden. Here is the site: http://www.qsl.net/hb9mtn/hb9mtn_h-pole.html. The only thing that I have found critical is the length of the feed line. As I use an SGC-230 tuner, I felt that I could use a much shorter feed than the author. I can tune the antenna, bit it does challenge the tuner. I'm using the center feed rather than off center feed. 73, Barry K3NDM On 5/12/2015 12:00 PM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: > I'm looking at an interesting antenna, the Innovantennas DESpole (see > <http://despole.com/> ). Does anyone have any experience with it? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal
On 2015-05-12 12:00, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote:
> I'm looking at an interesting antenna, the Innovantennas DESpole (see > <http://despole.com/> ). Does anyone have any experience with it? That is a very unusual looking antenna. I would be concerned about how well it would hold up to the high winds I sometimes get, and the snow and ice that I get in the winter. I wonder why they compared it to a 43' vertical. I have used a 26' vertical. I haven't lived on a property that had a yard big enough in which I could have assembled a 43' vertical lying on the ground before it got raised to its vertical orientation. -- Cheers! Kevin. http://www.ve3syb.ca/ |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're | powerful!" #include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
I am getting way too familiar with that roof since I put up the R8!
I presume the DESpole will perform more or less like a rotatable dipole, since that's what it is. But it's small enough to go on the roof. I'm unhappy with the R8 for various reasons, and the only other acceptable options for a vertical require radials. And there simply isn't room for a good set of symmetrical radials. The DESpole will limit me to 3 bands, which is a big hit. On the other hand, it should be a little louder than a vertical on those bands, as well as quieter on receive. The 43' vertical isn't my favorite antenna either. 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ On 12 May 2015 19:36, Jim Brown wrote: > On Tue,5/12/2015 9:00 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: >> I'm looking at an interesting antenna, the Innovantennas DESpole (see >> <http://despole.com/> ). Does anyone have any experience with it? >> -- > > Hi Vic, > > I think it's a brand new product. This is a very good company, their > other products are first rate. On your rooftop, its vertical pattern > will be subject to the same advantages and shortcomings as your existing > antenna. Note that they are comparing it to a 43 ft vertical, which is > not a very good performer above 20M. > > If you haven't already done so, take a look at my presentation about the > 43 ft vertical. I think you've already seen the one about "should I put > it on my roof." :) > > 73, Jim K9YC Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal
There was a non-technical review of it in the March 2014 QST (p.54)
I'm put off by the hype: "/*Breakthrough electromagnetic and mechanical engineering powers high-performance dipole arrays covering multiple bands with full-size efficiency. " */This appears to be nothing more than what Gary Breed calls a "coupled-resonator dipole" in, /The ARRL Antenna Compendium, Vol 5./ and republished in the /ARRL Antenna Book.///(Chapter 10.5) in the latest edition.//Hardly a breakthrough./ /I'm looking at building one, without the bent elements, for the WARC bands. Wes N7WS /* */ On 5/12/2015 9:00 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: > I'm looking at an interesting antenna, the Innovantennas DESpole (see > <http://despole.com/> ). Does anyone have any experience with it? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Anyone using a DESpole?
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In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal
SteppIR dipole works pretty good on my low level gth on a chimney mount.
________________________________________ From: Elecraft [[hidden email]] on behalf of Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO [[hidden email]] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 10:08 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Anyone using a DESpole? I am getting way too familiar with that roof since I put up the R8! I presume the DESpole will perform more or less like a rotatable dipole, since that's what it is. But it's small enough to go on the roof. I'm unhappy with the R8 for various reasons, and the only other acceptable options for a vertical require radials. And there simply isn't room for a good set of symmetrical radials. The DESpole will limit me to 3 bands, which is a big hit. On the other hand, it should be a little louder than a vertical on those bands, as well as quieter on receive. The 43' vertical isn't my favorite antenna either. 73, Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO Rehovot, Israel http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ On 12 May 2015 19:36, Jim Brown wrote: > On Tue,5/12/2015 9:00 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: >> I'm looking at an interesting antenna, the Innovantennas DESpole (see >> <http://despole.com/> ). Does anyone have any experience with it? >> -- > > Hi Vic, > > I think it's a brand new product. This is a very good company, their > other products are first rate. On your rooftop, its vertical pattern > will be subject to the same advantages and shortcomings as your existing > antenna. Note that they are comparing it to a 43 ft vertical, which is > not a very good performer above 20M. > > If you haven't already done so, take a look at my presentation about the > 43 ft vertical. I think you've already seen the one about "should I put > it on my roof." :) > > 73, Jim K9YC Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I'd prefer a hex beam over this antenna. The turning radius on my G3TSQ designed broadband hex is about 11 ft. It has 5 bands + 6 meters if you add it, some gain over a dipole and F/B > 10 dB. I've seen kits for about the same price as the 10/15/20 meter DESPole. The hex does have a higher wind and visual profile if that's a concern.
73, Brian, K0DTJ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal
Vic,
This is simply a bent dipole. I feel your pain with the R8. I had an R7 several years ago. It was deaf on 20 for some reason. 73 - Mike - KI8R On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO < [hidden email]> wrote: > I am getting way too familiar with that roof since I put up the R8! > I presume the DESpole will perform more or less like a rotatable dipole, > since that's what it is. But it's small enough to go on the roof. > > I'm unhappy with the R8 for various reasons, and the only other acceptable > options for a vertical require radials. And there simply isn't room for a > good set of symmetrical radials. > > The DESpole will limit me to 3 bands, which is a big hit. On the other > hand, it should be a little louder than a vertical on those bands, as well > as quieter on receive. > > The 43' vertical isn't my favorite antenna either. > > 73, > Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO > Rehovot, Israel > http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ > > On 12 May 2015 19:36, Jim Brown wrote: > >> On Tue,5/12/2015 9:00 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: >> >>> I'm looking at an interesting antenna, the Innovantennas DESpole (see >>> <http://despole.com/> ). Does anyone have any experience with it? >>> -- >>> >> >> Hi Vic, >> >> I think it's a brand new product. This is a very good company, their >> other products are first rate. On your rooftop, its vertical pattern >> will be subject to the same advantages and shortcomings as your existing >> antenna. Note that they are comparing it to a 43 ft vertical, which is >> not a very good performer above 20M. >> >> If you haven't already done so, take a look at my presentation about the >> 43 ft vertical. I think you've already seen the one about "should I put >> it on my roof." :) >> >> 73, Jim K9YC >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > -- ----------------------------------------------- *Michael Murphy - KI8R* [hidden email] www.ki8r.com *614-371-8265 (cell)* ----------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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The GAP Titan doesn't require radials either. Mine is on the roof over
the shack mounted on the 3" pipe that goes up the wall to a weatherhead and carries my coax runs to the tower. I got it mainly for the top two WARC bands, my sloping V is too long for them and squirts my RF in all sorts of unproductive directions. The Titan is a vertical ... noisy, but I make contacts on it. Currently, I'm using the center conductor of its PL-259 as a RX antenna on 474.2 KHz. The Titan is basically a center fed half-wave dipole with a lot of linear loading. It's kind of ugly. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015 - www.cqp.org On 5/12/2015 11:16 AM, Michael Murphy wrote: > Vic, > > This is simply a bent dipole. > > I feel your pain with the R8. I had an R7 several years ago. It was deaf > on 20 for some reason. > > 73 - Mike - KI8R > > On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO < > [hidden email]> wrote: > >> I am getting way too familiar with that roof since I put up the R8! >> I presume the DESpole will perform more or less like a rotatable dipole, >> since that's what it is. But it's small enough to go on the roof. >> >> I'm unhappy with the R8 for various reasons, and the only other acceptable >> options for a vertical require radials. And there simply isn't room for a >> good set of symmetrical radials. >> >> The DESpole will limit me to 3 bands, which is a big hit. On the other >> hand, it should be a little louder than a vertical on those bands, as well >> as quieter on receive. >> >> The 43' vertical isn't my favorite antenna either. >> >> 73, >> Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO >> Rehovot, Israel >> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ >> >> On 12 May 2015 19:36, Jim Brown wrote: >> >>> On Tue,5/12/2015 9:00 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: >>> >>>> I'm looking at an interesting antenna, the Innovantennas DESpole (see >>>> <http://despole.com/> ). Does anyone have any experience with it? >>>> -- >>>> >>> >>> Hi Vic, >>> >>> I think it's a brand new product. This is a very good company, their >>> other products are first rate. On your rooftop, its vertical pattern >>> will be subject to the same advantages and shortcomings as your existing >>> antenna. Note that they are comparing it to a 43 ft vertical, which is >>> not a very good performer above 20M. >>> >>> If you haven't already done so, take a look at my presentation about the >>> 43 ft vertical. I think you've already seen the one about "should I put >>> it on my roof." :) >>> >>> 73, Jim K9YC >>> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] >> > > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
Re: Anyone using a DESpole?
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In reply to this post by Wes (N7WS)
On 2015-05-12 2:09 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:
> I can’t tell whether it is a coupled-resonator dipole or a fan dipole. It's most certainly a coupled resonator dipole. That from e-mail exchanges with Innovantennas US. Alternatives to the DESpole might be the Force 12 Sigma 30-10 (10- 30 MHz) vertical, the N6BT Q51 (band switching 14-30 MHz dipole) or a single/two element SteppIR. The one issue with N6BT is the absolutely horrible customer service/delivery response. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-05-12 2:09 PM, Walter Underwood wrote: > I can’t tell whether it is a coupled-resonator dipole or a fan dipole. I’m betting on the latter. I don’t think you could cover that much bandwidth with a coupled-resonator design. > > The drooping ends are a reasonable choice for a limited space dipole. > > wunder > K6WRU > CM87wj > http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) > > On May 12, 2015, at 10:18 AM, Wes (N7WS) <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> There was a non-technical review of it in the March 2014 QST (p.54) >> >> I'm put off by the hype: "/*Breakthrough electromagnetic and mechanical engineering powers high-performance dipole arrays covering multiple bands with full-size efficiency. " >> >> */This appears to be nothing more than what Gary Breed calls a "coupled-resonator dipole" in, /The ARRL Antenna Compendium, Vol 5./ and republished in the /ARRL Antenna Book.///(Chapter 10.5) in the latest edition.//Hardly a breakthrough./ >> >> /I'm looking at building one, without the bent elements, for the WARC bands. >> >> Wes N7WS >> /* >> */ >> >> >> On 5/12/2015 9:00 AM, Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO wrote: >>> I'm looking at an interesting antenna, the Innovantennas DESpole (see <http://despole.com/> ). Does anyone have any experience with it? >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal
Hi All,
Someone suggested that the Cushcraft R7 was deaf on 20 meters. Not so--unless you had a defective antenna or installation. I will not suggest it is a great antenna, but it certainly isn't deaf! I used (and still do on some occasions) an R7 for years. Much of that was at QRP levels. I've since replaced it with an R8, but I don't notice a substantial difference, although there may well be some added benefit. Like all multiband vertical systems, these antennas do represent something of a compromise. However, you might want to take a look at the extensive commercial vertical antenna analysis that Ward Silver, N0AX, and Steve Morris, K7LXC, put together some years back. A number of verticals were compared, both to each other and to a full sized reference vertical system with a substantial radial system. Of course, in most cases the reference antenna was better, but not in all cases. Furthermore, the R8 (which was one of the verticals compared) had what might be considered to be the best overall performance of the bunch. Some of the other antennas covered 80 meters, which the R8 does not, but otherwise the R8 had relatively strong comparative results. The R7, which was the predecessor to the R8, performs similarly in my view and based on my personal observation. If the definition of "deaf" is based on a comparison to a beam at a decent height, I would tend to agree. Similarly, a dipole at 50 or 60 feet will probably outperform the R7 and R8 as well. I had a dipole at about 40 feet, and it was often a dead heat, with the vertical possibly doing better for DX. Until you get a dipole a good bit higher than 1/4 wave, the take-off angle is pretty high. The R8, if deployed reasonably, will give you a take-off angle of perhaps 20 to 25 degrees or so. However, you get no gain, and maybe a bit of loss vs. a dipole. If you are deploying your R8 (or almost any other vertical system) at ground level, you may not be doing it in the best way. Mine is at about 18 feet off the ground, and works much better than when I had it near ground level. !/4 wave systems at ground level need an extensive radial system and good soil conditions. I hear a lot of ground mounted systems that work well, but I don't hear many that don't have a really good ground system. If you can move that system to your rooftop, you can get a way with a lot fewer radials. Support for this can be found in articles by Rudy Severns, N6LF. The R8 was about 1.4 db down from the reference antenna on 20 meters in the Silver/Morris study. A couple of the other antennas did slightly better, but much worse than the R8 on 15 and 10 meters. In any event, -1.4 db isn't great, but it isn't all that bad either. If that's all you have room for it isn't bad at all! On 40 meters the R8 was about 1/2 S Unit down from the reference antenna, but so were all the others, if not worse. Those antennas that purportedly covered 80 meters were all 1 to 3 S units down from the reference antenna! I'm not "hawking" the R8 (or the R7), but as compromise multiband antennas go, it isn't a bad choice. I have a vertical dipole (Sigma 40XK) that I like even better on 40 meters. It seems to be slightly better than the R8 based on some RBN comparisons I've done. It's a multiband antenna as well, but changing bands is a nightmare, so I leave mine on 40 meters. By the way, you could build your own Sigma 40XK look alike for a fraction of what they want for it commercially! Dave W7AQK ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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