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Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

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Bruce Chadbourne

Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
crystal mic. I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
'phone. Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy upgrade
for yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned
mic(?).
73 to all, Merry Christmas
Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
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Nate Bargmann

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

For a desk mic I use a Kenwood MC-60A. It has some known issues and I
did some work on it to quell some RFI though the best improvement was
getting a good ground into the shack. It seems to work well.

73, Nate

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Don Wilhelm

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

Bruce,

If you want to go really cheap, get a "computer" microphone, plug it
into the back of the K3, turn on bias, turn the TX EQ two lowest bands
down as far as they will go and the third band down 6dB.
If you want some high frequency shaping, increase the highest 3 bands a bit.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/4/2016 9:24 AM, Bruce Chadbourne wrote:
> Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
> I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
> crystal mic. I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
> 'phone. Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
> recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
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W1GO (Joe)

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

Bruce,

You'll get a ton of responses and most will be, "don't spend a lot"; most mics work fine with the K3's EQ. I do agree with Nate. I use a Kenwood 60A (keep preamp off) and do quite well. There are potential issues with RF, but the fix is pretty easy. Because there has been a bad reputation of RF issues with the mic, you can usually pick up used ones pretty inexpensively and if it hasn't been modified, it's an easy fix (15 min) to do so. Also, the same pinouts make the Kenwood mic a "plug and play."

Joe
W1GO

> On Dec 4, 2016, at 09:24, Bruce Chadbourne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
> I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
> crystal mic. I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
> 'phone. Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
> recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
> Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy upgrade
> for yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned
> mic(?).
> 73 to all, Merry Christmas
> Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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ve3dvy

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

I have 2 mics one on an old articulated lamp arm dynamic I
bought at a surplus store. It was a cheep knock of of a shure SM58
cost me $4.00 get tons of good audio remarks. just makes me wonder
why others need $300 condensers.

Second and a popular one on K3 is the Yamaha CM500 headset with boom
mic. good audio both listening and transmit. the truth is any
comfortable computer headset with mic will work very well for you.

the transmit EQ is your friend with any mic.

David Moes
VE3SD

> --- Original message ---
> Subject: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)
> From: Bruce Chadbourne <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Date: Sunday, 04/12/2016 9:25 AM
>
> Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital
> operator.
> I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an
> Turner454X
> crystal mic. I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
> 'phone. Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make
> a
> recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
> Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy
> upgrade
> for yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned
> mic(?).
> 73 to all, Merry Christmas
> Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Nr4c

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

I have a Heil HM-12. Inexpensive and good sound.

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Dec 4, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Bruce Chadbourne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
> I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
> crystal mic. I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
> 'phone. Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
> recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
> Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy upgrade
> for yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned
> mic(?).
> 73 to all, Merry Christmas
> Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Matt Zilmer-3

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

*Piggybacking on Ron, since I couldn't find the original email.

I use a Heil Goldline with H4 and H5 elements, and I have an MH3. I've
used both and no one can tell the difference because of the TX EQ. I
suspect Don's earlier reply is spot-on as well. You can tailor any
modern mass-produced mic to your wishes with the EQ, and it should work
quite well. This includes inexpensive condenser(electret) mics.

73,

matt W6NIA

On 12/4/2016 8:06 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Fun is whatever is fun for you. If a nice looking new microphone is it, go
> for it!
>
> Half a century ago when microphones were still hand-made the more expensive
> ones were significantly better than the cheap variety. Considerably more
> labor went into assembling each element, and more elements failed to meet
> specs and so had to be discarded or reworked.
>
> But these days microphone manufacturing is entirely automated and a machine
> can crank out endless identically-performing high-quality elements in a tiny
> fraction of the time a human could. It's also why you can buy a
> first-quality wristwatch at an absurdly low cost today.
>
> A really fine microphone element can be bought for under USD$5.
>
> The rest of the cost is in the case, chrome, stand, etc., just as the cost
> of the wristwatch is in its case and band. In both cases, the cost can be
> anything from reasonable to the absurd. It's all in what you want to spend.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bruce
> Chadbourne
> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 6:24 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)
>
> Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
> I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
> crystal mic. I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new 'phone.
> Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
> recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
> Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy upgrade for
> yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned mic(?).
> 73 to all, Merry Christmas
> Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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--
Always store beer in a dark place. - R. Heinlein

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Shiraz]

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

Hi Bruce,

As others have noted, almost any mic that isn't "broke" can be made to
sound very good with the TXEQ in your K3. Something like 8 years ago, a
member of our contest club who is, like me, an audio professional, the
Yamaha CM500 boom mic headset and introduced our club to it. I've used
it ever since, and am quite happy with it. It's very comfortable to
wear, both headphones and mic sound great with the radio. It plugs
straight into the rear panel. A few tweaks and you're ready to go. Other
very good SSB operators have recommended a competing model, the Koss
SB-45, which is described as quite similar.

FWIW, I always liked Turner mics for the paging systems that I
maintained as a young engineer just starting out.

A year or so ago, I prepared a tutorial on the topic of how to get good
audio on the air. It's here. http://k9yc.com/ContestAudio.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

On Sun,12/4/2016 6:24 AM, Bruce Chadbourne wrote:
> Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
> I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
> crystal mic. I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
> 'phone. Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
> recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.

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Don Wilhelm

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer-3

I hesitate to refer to the common electret microphones as "condenser" mics.

While many refer to the electret element microphones as "condenser"
microphones, be aware that in the pro-audio world, "condenser"
microphones are different - they usually require 48 volt Phantom
Voltage. They may be similar in the basic element, but the
implementation is different.
An Electret mic element requires only a bias through a 5K to 10k
resistor to the AF line.

If you invest in a pro-audio "condenser" microphone, it will not work on
the bias voltage designed for electret elements.

Ham microphones are the Electret type, pro-audio Condenser microphones
are different.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/4/2016 11:20 PM, Matt Zilmer wrote:
> *Piggybacking on Ron, since I couldn't find the original email.
>
> I use a Heil Goldline with H4 and H5 elements, and I have an MH3. I've
> used both and no one can tell the difference because of the TX EQ. I
> suspect Don's earlier reply is spot-on as well. You can tailor any
> modern mass-produced mic to your wishes with the EQ, and it should work
> quite well. This includes inexpensive condenser(electret) mics.
>
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

On Sun,12/4/2016 8:36 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Ham microphones are the Electret type, pro-audio Condenser microphones
> are different.

Yes, they are POWERED differently, but the vast majority (I'd guess 90%)
of pro mics that are called condenser mics are electrets. BUT -- that
powering system REQUIRES that they feed a balanced input and have
"balanced phantom power." That system applies a positive voltage in the
range of 18 - 48VDC through close-tolerance, equal value resistors to
the two sides of the balanced signal circuit (pins 2 and 3 of the
XL-connector) with return for DC going to the cable shield (Pin 1).

The unbalanced electret mics we use in ham radio only require a positive
voltage as bias for a FET-follower stage that transforms the very high
output impedance of the capsule to an impedance low enough to drive mic
inputs. The balanced outputs of pro electrets have an additional gain
stage with an output impedance low enough to drive a long mic cable.

48V phantom is applied through 6.8K resistors; 18V phantom is applied
through resistors of lower value. Virtually all pro mics will work with
48V, and most will work with 18V, but most non-electret condensers
require 48V.

73, Jim K9YC

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Roger

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

> That system applies a positive voltage in the
> range of 18 - 48VDC through close-tolerance, equal value resistors to
> the two sides of the balanced signal circuit (pins 2 and 3 of the
> XL-connector) with return for DC going to the cable shield (Pin 1).

While modern professional condenser mics use phantom power applied
through high value resistors, the *original* connection was between
the *center tap* of the audio console input transformer and shield
of the cable. In those days a much higher current was required to
power *tube preamplifiers*.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 12/5/2016 12:32 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Sun,12/4/2016 8:36 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Ham microphones are the Electret type, pro-audio Condenser microphones
>> are different.
>
> Yes, they are POWERED differently, but the vast majority (I'd guess 90%)
> of pro mics that are called condenser mics are electrets. BUT -- that
> powering system REQUIRES that they feed a balanced input and have
> "balanced phantom power." That system applies a positive voltage in the
> range of 18 - 48VDC through close-tolerance, equal value resistors to
> the two sides of the balanced signal circuit (pins 2 and 3 of the
> XL-connector) with return for DC going to the cable shield (Pin 1).
>
> The unbalanced electret mics we use in ham radio only require a positive
> voltage as bias for a FET-follower stage that transforms the very high
> output impedance of the capsule to an impedance low enough to drive mic
> inputs. The balanced outputs of pro electrets have an additional gain
> stage with an output impedance low enough to drive a long mic cable.
>
> 48V phantom is applied through 6.8K resistors; 18V phantom is applied
> through resistors of lower value. Virtually all pro mics will work with
> 48V, and most will work with 18V, but most non-electret condensers
> require 48V.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

w7aqk

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

I've taken a number of old, cheap microphone housings (hamfest
acquisitions), and inserted an inexpensive electret cartridge. Every one of
them worked great! Truth is, I think you can probably buy most any electret
cartridge and get it to do just fine. Some may be a bit more responsive
than others, but I have yet to find one that doesn't do a good job. That
way you can pick and choose what housing you like. All the Elecraft rigs
provide the necessary bias right in the radios, so it is not a difficult bit
of surgery.

My favorite headset is the Yamaha CM-500, gut I've also successfully used
various computer headsets that are even cheaper. You just don't need to
spend a lot of money, unless you are looking for something special besides
the mic element itself. When it comes to headsets, I'm more concerned about
the headphone part. I've not had very good results from various Heils I
have around here.

Dave W7AQK

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Bruce Chadbourne

Re: Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)

In reply to this post by Bruce Chadbourne

Thanks to all for the good-spirited sharing of your "mic for K3" tips.
Very, very helpful.
And I see that it prompted a few other queries on the topic.
73! KE1CY

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 11:06 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Fun is whatever is fun for you. If a nice looking new microphone is it, go
> for it!
>
> Half a century ago when microphones were still hand-made the more expensive
> ones were significantly better than the cheap variety. Considerably more
> labor went into assembling each element, and more elements failed to meet
> specs and so had to be discarded or reworked.
>
> But these days microphone manufacturing is entirely automated and a machine
> can crank out endless identically-performing high-quality elements in a
> tiny
> fraction of the time a human could. It's also why you can buy a
> first-quality wristwatch at an absurdly low cost today.
>
> A really fine microphone element can be bought for under USD$5.
>
> The rest of the cost is in the case, chrome, stand, etc., just as the cost
> of the wristwatch is in its case and band. In both cases, the cost can be
> anything from reasonable to the absurd. It's all in what you want to spend.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Bruce
> Chadbourne
> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2016 6:24 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Appropriate Mic for K3 (new)
>
> Greetings - I've had my K3 for 5 years, mostly a CW and digital operator.
> I've never done much with my microphone - just repurposing an Turner454X
> crystal mic. I keep wondering if I'd be having more phun with a new
> 'phone.
> Without starting a holy war, perhaps a few of you could make a
> recommendation as to a specific slightly-better-than budget model.
> Better still, with Christmas coming, maybe you're eyeing a fancy upgrade
> for
> yourself and would like to sell me your modestly-priced pre-owned mic(?).
> 73 to all, Merry Christmas
> Bruce KE1CY @ arrl.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
>

--
Bruce Chadbourne PgMP/BRMP
1034 W Beagle Run Loop
Hernando, FL 34442
Office phone: 352-453-5456

If urgent, the best way to reach me is by phone. Thank you.
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