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Auto Bandpass Filter

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Brett Howard

Auto Bandpass Filter

Brett Howard

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter (sorry sent too soon)

Ok so I'm looking for an auto band pass filter to use with the K3...
Would be slick if the filter could be interfaced directly to the K3 but
I'm planning on needing a band decoder/smart switch for different
widgets later in life that I've been planning on starting so this may be
the opportunity for that project to need to start.

Anyway I've been trying to find all my options and some pros/cons of the
different solutions from people who have experience with them. These
are the units I've found... Please let me know if you have experience
with these such as ease of interfacing, build quality, power handling,
longevity, loss, out of band attenuation and what not.

Array Solutions FilterMAX II:
http://www.arraysolutions.com/Hamation/bandpassfilters.htm#top%20of%20page

Array Solutions Filter Master (FM-6):
http://www.arraysolutions.com/Products/wx0bbpf6.htm

I.C.E. 419B
http://www.iceradioproducts.com/filtersrf.html#3

DuneStar Model 600:
http://www.dunestar.com/model600.htm

Well crud I ended up sending too soon (hit ctrl+enter on accident)

Anyway I've considered the FilterMAX II as it seems to be the best built
with a nice modular filter replacement scheme but its the most
expensive. I wish that they were a bit more informative in the manual
and explained what the pinouts were and how the thing determined what
band to be on. The switches mentioned don't really make a whole lot of
sense as there are more positions mentioned than one can hold as far as
filters... Confusing to say the least but I'm sure once I had one in
hand I could figure it out.

Then there is the filter master 6 which is a slick little idea in that
its just a coax switch essentially and then one can use individual
filters from Dunestar, ICE, or Array Solutions (I'm sure there are
others that I'm forgetting and I'd like to know about)... I have the
same gripe about not explaining the pin outs here but I'd bet it has the
same configuration as the FilterMAX II

Then there is the I.C.E. 419B which seems like its awfully small in
comparison to some of the other units. I begin to wonder about its
power handling but I have a friend who has their individual filters and
seems quite happy with them. I don't think he uses them very often
though so I don't know about longevity really or about power handling
all that much. I do mostly CW but would also like to be able to use
this system during a RTTY contest at 100W.

Finally the Dunestar model looks like its ok however power ratings seem
a bit scary. All they state is that the filters are intended for use
wiht transceivers and then state that this is not to imply a 100% duty
cycle. What the heck does that mean?

Anyway input is greatly appreciated.

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Pete Smith N4ZR

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter (sorry sent too soon)

I ran 2 Dunestar 600s for 3 years with no problems in contest service.
They are very well built, and the support is fine. ICE can be very hard
to get ahold of, but a lot of contesters use the 419B without notable
trouble, so far as I know.

The W3NQN filters that Array Solutions uses are definitely superior to
the filters in the other units, but you pay for the privilege, and
whether they are worth it is moot, so far as I am concerned. I think
I'd prefer to go with the Dunestars and add stubs to deal with
troublesome combinations of bands (keeping 40 out of my 20 meter RX was
always hard for me).

I think you'll find that all of these units rely on switching voltages
provided by band decoders, so that's another piece of hardware you would
need as an intermediary between your radio or computer and the BPFs.

73, Pete N4ZR

The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000

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Bob Naumann W5OV

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter (sorry sent too soon)

In reply to this post by Brett Howard

Brett,

For all of the solutions you list, you will need a band-decoder to take
the band data (Yaesu standard) from the K3 and convert it to contact
closures that will drive any of the filter units you have mentioned. So,
the wiring depends on the band decoder you choose and it's pretty
straight-forward. One connection per band + ground.

The FilterMAX II you refer to uses W3NQN design bandpass filters and
therfore provides the best bandpass filtering - on the order of 75 to 80db
or so. The ICE and Dunestar filters are less capable and have filtering in
the range of only 30 to 35 db.

In addition to the filter quality, the FilterMAX II integrates with the
Array Solutions BandMaster II band decoder using a new 4-wire control
system along with 4-wire network integration with the new 8-pak SO2R
antenna switch. Details are on the Array Solutions website.

73,

Bob W5OV
Array Solutions
W5OV/1

> Ok so I'm looking for an auto band pass filter to use with the K3...
> Would be slick if the filter could be interfaced directly to the K3 but
> I'm planning on needing a band decoder/smart switch for different
> widgets later in life that I've been planning on starting so this may be
> the opportunity for that project to need to start.
>
> Anyway I've been trying to find all my options and some pros/cons of the
> different solutions from people who have experience with them. These
> are the units I've found... Please let me know if you have experience
> with these such as ease of interfacing, build quality, power handling,
> longevity, loss, out of band attenuation and what not.
>
> Array Solutions FilterMAX II:
> http://www.arraysolutions.com/Hamation/bandpassfilters.htm#top%20of%20page
>
> Array Solutions Filter Master (FM-6):
> http://www.arraysolutions.com/Products/wx0bbpf6.htm
>
> I.C.E. 419B
> http://www.iceradioproducts.com/filtersrf.html#3
>
> DuneStar Model 600:
> http://www.dunestar.com/model600.htm
>
> Well crud I ended up sending too soon (hit ctrl+enter on accident)
>
> Anyway I've considered the FilterMAX II as it seems to be the best built
> with a nice modular filter replacement scheme but its the most
> expensive. I wish that they were a bit more informative in the manual
> and explained what the pinouts were and how the thing determined what
> band to be on. The switches mentioned don't really make a whole lot of
> sense as there are more positions mentioned than one can hold as far as
> filters... Confusing to say the least but I'm sure once I had one in
> hand I could figure it out.
>
> Then there is the filter master 6 which is a slick little idea in that
> its just a coax switch essentially and then one can use individual
> filters from Dunestar, ICE, or Array Solutions (I'm sure there are
> others that I'm forgetting and I'd like to know about)... I have the
> same gripe about not explaining the pin outs here but I'd bet it has the
> same configuration as the FilterMAX II
>
> Then there is the I.C.E. 419B which seems like its awfully small in
> comparison to some of the other units. I begin to wonder about its
> power handling but I have a friend who has their individual filters and
> seems quite happy with them. I don't think he uses them very often
> though so I don't know about longevity really or about power handling
> all that much. I do mostly CW but would also like to be able to use
> this system during a RTTY contest at 100W.
>
> Finally the Dunestar model looks like its ok however power ratings seem
> a bit scary. All they state is that the filters are intended for use
> wiht transceivers and then state that this is not to imply a 100% duty
> cycle. What the heck does that mean?
>
> Anyway input is greatly appreciated.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Dave Hachadorian

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter (sorry sent too soon)

In reply to this post by Brett Howard

I have a pair of Dunestar 600 boxes that I've used for years,
including 100 watt rtty contests. I've never once had a problem.

My buddy W7WW across town has a pair of ICE boxes, and he has had
a few problems. He has blown capacitors on 10 and 15 meters. We
replaced the caps with heavier duty units, with multiple
capacitors in parallel. He has also had problems with dropout of
receive signals through the ICE. That unit has 12 sets of relay
contacts in series with the signal path. On any given band, two
of the contacts are energized closed, and ten are in the normally
open position. It's the normally open ones that cause receive
signal dropouts. The solution is to "whack the box," which gets
old pretty fast.

For a band decoder, here is a cost effective solution:
http://www.unifiedmicro.com/decoder.html

K3's older than sn 2362 will need to have the "External Data
Pull-up Mod" installed to work with this band decoder.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Big Bear Lake, CA

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Brett Howard" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 3:15 AM
To: "elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Auto Bandpass Filter (sorry sent too
soon)

> Ok so I'm looking for an auto band pass filter to use with the
> K3...
> Would be slick if the filter could be interfaced directly to
> the K3 but
> I'm planning on needing a band decoder/smart switch for
> different
> widgets later in life that I've been planning on starting so
> this may be
> the opportunity for that project to need to start.
>
> Anyway I've been trying to find all my options and some
> pros/cons of the
> different solutions from people who have experience with them.
> These
> are the units I've found... Please let me know if you have
> experience
> with these such as ease of interfacing, build quality, power
> handling,
> longevity, loss, out of band attenuation and what not.
>
> Array Solutions FilterMAX II:
> http://www.arraysolutions.com/Hamation/bandpassfilters.htm#top%20of%20page
>
> Array Solutions Filter Master (FM-6):
> http://www.arraysolutions.com/Products/wx0bbpf6.htm
>
> I.C.E. 419B
> http://www.iceradioproducts.com/filtersrf.html#3
>
> DuneStar Model 600:
> http://www.dunestar.com/model600.htm
>
> Well crud I ended up sending too soon (hit ctrl+enter on
> accident)
>
> Anyway I've considered the FilterMAX II as it seems to be the
> best built
> with a nice modular filter replacement scheme but its the most
> expensive. I wish that they were a bit more informative in the
> manual
> and explained what the pinouts were and how the thing
> determined what
> band to be on. The switches mentioned don't really make a
> whole lot of
> sense as there are more positions mentioned than one can hold
> as far as
> filters... Confusing to say the least but I'm sure once I had
> one in
> hand I could figure it out.
>
> Then there is the filter master 6 which is a slick little idea
> in that
> its just a coax switch essentially and then one can use
> individual
> filters from Dunestar, ICE, or Array Solutions (I'm sure there
> are
> others that I'm forgetting and I'd like to know about)... I
> have the
> same gripe about not explaining the pin outs here but I'd bet
> it has the
> same configuration as the FilterMAX II
>
> Then there is the I.C.E. 419B which seems like its awfully
> small in
> comparison to some of the other units. I begin to wonder about
> its
> power handling but I have a friend who has their individual
> filters and
> seems quite happy with them. I don't think he uses them very
> often
> though so I don't know about longevity really or about power
> handling
> all that much. I do mostly CW but would also like to be able
> to use
> this system during a RTTY contest at 100W.
>
> Finally the Dunestar model looks like its ok however power
> ratings seem
> a bit scary. All they state is that the filters are intended
> for use
> wiht transceivers and then state that this is not to imply a
> 100% duty
> cycle. What the heck does that mean?
>
> Anyway input is greatly appreciated.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter (sorry sent too soon)

In reply to this post by Brett Howard

In addition to the prepackaged solutions one can purchase a set
of individual band filters from Rig Expert or Array Solutions
(or build your own W3NQN design filters from the published data)
and use a pair of "double" switches (two radio antenna switches)
to select the appropriate filter.

The dual switch/single band filters have the advantage of
permitting the addition of single band stubs where needed.

As suggested by someone else, W9XT BCD-10 is a very good, simple
decoder for use with the K3 if you are only controlling a single
device (e.g. filter switch). If you are controlling filters
plus multiple antennas, plus amplifiers, plus receive antennas
a more capable band decoder would be appropriate <G>.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 7/5/2010 6:15 AM, Brett Howard wrote:

> Ok so I'm looking for an auto band pass filter to use with the K3...
> Would be slick if the filter could be interfaced directly to the K3
> but I'm planning on needing a band decoder/smart switch for
> different widgets later in life that I've been planning on starting
> so this may be the opportunity for that project to need to start.
>
> Anyway I've been trying to find all my options and some pros/cons of
> the different solutions from people who have experience with them.
> These are the units I've found... Please let me know if you have
> experience with these such as ease of interfacing, build quality,
> power handling, longevity, loss, out of band attenuation and what
> not.
>
> Array Solutions FilterMAX II:
> http://www.arraysolutions.com/Hamation/bandpassfilters.htm#top%20of%20page
>
> Array Solutions Filter Master (FM-6):
> http://www.arraysolutions.com/Products/wx0bbpf6.htm
>
> I.C.E. 419B http://www.iceradioproducts.com/filtersrf.html#3
>
> DuneStar Model 600: http://www.dunestar.com/model600.htm
>
> Well crud I ended up sending too soon (hit ctrl+enter on accident)
>
> Anyway I've considered the FilterMAX II as it seems to be the best
> built with a nice modular filter replacement scheme but its the most
> expensive. I wish that they were a bit more informative in the
> manual and explained what the pinouts were and how the thing
> determined what band to be on. The switches mentioned don't really
> make a whole lot of sense as there are more positions mentioned than
> one can hold as far as filters... Confusing to say the least but I'm
> sure once I had one in hand I could figure it out.
>
> Then there is the filter master 6 which is a slick little idea in
> that its just a coax switch essentially and then one can use
> individual filters from Dunestar, ICE, or Array Solutions (I'm sure
> there are others that I'm forgetting and I'd like to know about)...
> I have the same gripe about not explaining the pin outs here but I'd
> bet it has the same configuration as the FilterMAX II
>
> Then there is the I.C.E. 419B which seems like its awfully small in
> comparison to some of the other units. I begin to wonder about its
> power handling but I have a friend who has their individual filters
> and seems quite happy with them. I don't think he uses them very
> often though so I don't know about longevity really or about power
> handling all that much. I do mostly CW but would also like to be
> able to use this system during a RTTY contest at 100W.
>
> Finally the Dunestar model looks like its ok however power ratings
> seem a bit scary. All they state is that the filters are intended
> for use wiht transceivers and then state that this is not to imply a
> 100% duty cycle. What the heck does that mean?
>
> Anyway input is greatly appreciated.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

W8JI

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter

Ameritron makes an RCS12 control head that I use here. I have about a dozen
of them in use.

It not only is programmable as to the allowed output ports for a radio's
band data input, it also works as an antenna switch controller and will lock
out the wrong antennas on the wrong bands. It prevents hot switching antenna
relays by locking out any changes while transmitting.

Band decoder and antenna controller with amplifier lockout all in one box.
:-)

http://www.ameritron.com/man/pdf/RCS-12.pdf

73 Tom

> As suggested by someone else, W9XT BCD-10 is a very good, simple
> decoder for use with the K3 if you are only controlling a single
> device (e.g. filter switch). If you are controlling filters
> plus multiple antennas, plus amplifiers, plus receive antennas
> a more capable band decoder would be appropriate <G>.

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David Cutter

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter (sorry sent too soon)

In reply to this post by Brett Howard

Here is a nice unit from an ex-pat, Bob, big into contesting.

http://www.5b4agn.net/

Incidentally, if you fancy making one yourself I have sets of wound toroids.

David
G3UNA

> Ok so I'm looking for an auto band pass filter to use with the K3...
> Would be slick if the filter could be interfaced directly to the K3 but
> I'm planning on needing a band decoder/smart switch for different
> widgets later in life that I've been planning on starting so this may be
> the opportunity for that project to need to start.
>
______________________________________________________________
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Dick Dievendorff

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter

In reply to this post by W8JI

If you are doing this for an SO2R or multi-transmitter installation and no
two radios never ever need to be on the same band, perhaps you can configure
the switching to use one set of separately enclosed W3NQN filters rather
than a pair of products that has a switch and six filters each.

There's a fair amount of connector cost and jumper jungle associated with a
solution like this, which needs to be compared with the cost of the W3NQN
bandpass filters themselves. A set of six distinct W3NQN filters and a pair
of 2 x n switches is a bit more flexible (and might provide a bit better
isolation) than a box containing a switch and six filters. But it's messy
and takes up a lot of space.

I considered this option, and chose two boxes containing switches and 6
filters instead. I didn't like the jumper jungle. There is a (perhaps
small) market for a 2 x 6 SO2R bandpass filter box with four coax
connectors, radio 1 in and out, radio 2 in and out.

There used to be a note on the Array Solutions site that described this
configuration, associated with their FM-6. The product offering was two
FM-6's, a set of six W3NQN filters and a lot of jumpers. I can't find it
now. Perhaps it has been superseded by the much "neater" configuration with
a separate set of filters for each radio.

One multi-op I visit uses just one set of six separately enclosed W3NQN
filters, connected to the input side of each of six single-band amplifiers.
Amp/bandpass filter selection is performed by routing a radio to one of the
amplifiers. Antenna switching consists of selecting one of the available
antennas for that band only.

Still another multi-radio single operator configuration I saw some years ago
used separate radios and amps (that shared a common HV supply) and antenna
tuners for each band. The single operator changed bands by rolling his
chair to a new position.

Dick, K6KR

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Phil Salas

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter

In reply to this post by W8JI

"Ameritron makes an RCS12 control head that I use here. I have about a dozen
of them in use. W8JI"

This is a neat controller. I have a review of it in the "Product Reviews"
section of my website at www.ad5x.com.

Phil - AD5X

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Dave-3

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter

In reply to this post by W8JI

I used to use a Dunestar 600 with my K3, but I have now built and use the
5B4AGN boards (see http://www.5b4agn.net/) for the w3nqn filters which
interfaces to my K3 and other radios

Dave

ww2r

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 03:05:52 -0700
From: Brett Howard <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Auto Bandpass Filter
To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <1278324352.1896.87.camel@lappy>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Ok so I'm looking for an auto band pass filter to use with the K3...
Would be slick if the filter could be interfaced directly to the K3 but
I'm planning on needing a band decoder/smart switch for different
widgets later in life that I've been planning on starting so this may be
the opportunity for that project to need to start.

Anyway I've been trying to find all my options and some pros/cons of the
different solutions from people who have experience with them. These
are the units I've found... Please let me know if you have experience
with these such as ease of interfacing, build quality, power handling,
longevity, loss, out of band attenuation and what not.

Array Solutions FilterMAX II:
<a href="http://www.arraysolutions.com/Hamation/bandpassfilters.htm#top%20of%">http://www.arraysolutions.com/Hamation/bandpassfilters.htm#top%20of%
20page

Array Solutions Filter Master (FM-6):
http://www.arraysolutions.com/Products/wx0bbpf6.htm

I.C.E. 419B
http://www.iceradioproducts.com/filtersrf.html#3

DuneStar Model 600:

------------------------------

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Dick Dievendorff

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter

What does Array Solutions want for their Hamation switched unit? Consider shipping and repair...

Dick

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2010, at 2:01 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I used to use a Dunestar 600 with my K3, but I have now built and use the
> 5B4AGN boards (see http://www.5b4agn.net/) for the w3nqn filters which
> interfaces to my K3 and other radios
>
> Dave
>
> ww2r
>
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 03:05:52 -0700
> From: Brett Howard <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Auto Bandpass Filter
> To: elecraft <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <1278324352.1896.87.camel@lappy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Ok so I'm looking for an auto band pass filter to use with the K3...
> Would be slick if the filter could be interfaced directly to the K3 but
> I'm planning on needing a band decoder/smart switch for different
> widgets later in life that I've been planning on starting so this may be
> the opportunity for that project to need to start.
>
> Anyway I've been trying to find all my options and some pros/cons of the
> different solutions from people who have experience with them. These
> are the units I've found... Please let me know if you have experience
> with these such as ease of interfacing, build quality, power handling,
> longevity, loss, out of band attenuation and what not.
>
> Array Solutions FilterMAX II:
> <a href="http://www.arraysolutions.com/Hamation/bandpassfilters.htm#top%20of%">http://www.arraysolutions.com/Hamation/bandpassfilters.htm#top%20of%
> 20page
>
> Array Solutions Filter Master (FM-6):
> http://www.arraysolutions.com/Products/wx0bbpf6.htm
>
> I.C.E. 419B
> http://www.iceradioproducts.com/filtersrf.html#3
>
> DuneStar Model 600:
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

W5MF

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter

In reply to this post by Dave-3

I am building the 5B4AGN Bandpass filter. Once it is together, what do I need to do to make my K3 auto band switch?
Marty W5MF

Jim Brown-10

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter

On 11/24/2013 9:17 PM, W5MF wrote:
> I am building the 5B4AGN Bandpass filter. Once it is together, what do I need
> to do to make my K3 auto band switch?

I've done exactly that for the two K3s and two filter sets in my SO2R
station. You need a properly wired cable between each K3 and the
associated 5B4AGN filter box. Study the 5B4AGN manual and K3 manual for
connector wiring, and build your own cable using quality connectors
Works perfectly.

Be VERY careful soldering the DIN connector at the filter set -- it's an
el-cheapo grande with a dielectric that easily melts. I've found that
liquid flux helps, and it also helps to have the connector you're
soldering mated to a connector of opposite gender so that the pins don't
go skywobbly. (Skywobbly is a technical term that I learned from my
grandfather, who was an EE grad of Pratt, in Brooklyn, and who worked in
the coal mines long before I was born).

73, Jim K9YC
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k6dgw

Re: Auto Bandpass Filter

Skywobbly [SKYY-wah-blee] n. Flight path of a helicopter when being
piloted by Fred

More seriously, mating a connector also has the benefit of sinking some
of the heat in the pins lowering the chances of melting the dielectric.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

On 11/24/2013 10:08 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> Be VERY careful soldering the DIN connector at the filter set -- it's an
> el-cheapo grande with a dielectric that easily melts. I've found that
> liquid flux helps, and it also helps to have the connector you're
> soldering mated to a connector of opposite gender so that the pins don't
> go skywobbly. (Skywobbly is a technical term that I learned from my
> grandfather, who was an EE grad of Pratt, in Brooklyn, and who worked in
> the coal mines long before I was born).

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