Automated BPL Interference Data Collection.

[Jeff Burns-3]

I read recently that a BPL trial is starting in my state. The trial is not
near my QTH, but it made me think I should document my current noise
environment before BPL moves into my community. What is a practical way to
get the documentation?  I have a few ideas that require programming a
computer. I will present them hear in the hope that someone will develop the
software.

 

My first thought was to scan through all the HF bands with a camcorder set
to look at my transceiver. This way the audio and frequency would be
documented. By periodically tuning to WWV, the exact time and date would
also be documented. The biggest problem with this is the time required to
manually scan the radio. If the process could be automated, data could be
collected during all hours of the day, and my time at the radio can be spent
making QSO's.

 

Since my transceiver (Elecrftat K2) is computer controllable, the computer
could be used to slowly scan through the bands. The video would still be
used for the documentation. This level of automation would be easy to
implement.  

 

Since I already have audio routed from the transceiver to the computer sound
card, why not let the computer record the data? This would be very helpful
to me since I do not have a camcorder of my own. Documenting audio is easy.
The only problem is selecting a compression algorithm that gets the audio to
a manageable size without losing needed information. Documenting the
frequency is a bigger problem. A file format that records both the audio and
frequency is needed.

 

It would also be nice if the program followed a strict schedule for the
scans. I can envision posts to newsgroups like "I captured a digital pulse
at 0335 on 3.146 MHz. Did anyone else catch this?"  

 

A program that can both tune the radio and record the data would make
unattended data collection easy. With an easy way to take the data many hams
from across the country would likely make the measurements.

 

I do not think I have the programming skills to get a program like this
implemented in a timely manner. Perhaps someone else can take up the
project. It also maybe possible put together a system to do this with
existing software. I would like to hear ideas on how to do this.

 

Jeff Burns

AD9T

 

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[Rich Lentz]

Perhaps the amateur radio telescope software would work.  Look at this web
page,

http://radiojove.gsfc.nasa.gov/  they have a kit but why not use a K1 set to
one (each for a day) QRP frequencies.

More info here http://my.integritynet.com.au/purdic/radio-telescope.htm

Perhaps several of us should do this.

Used as conceived this makes a great Science Fair project for budding
(existing) hams.

Rich,
KE0X

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[wayne burdick]

On Feb 12, 2005, at 6:25 PM, Rich Lentz wrote:

> Perhaps the amateur radio telescope software would work.  Look at this
> web
> page,
>
> http://radiojove.gsfc.nasa.gov/  they have a kit but why not use a K1
> set to
> one (each for a day) QRP frequencies.
>
> More info here http://my.integritynet.com.au/purdic/radio-telescope.htm
>
> Perhaps several of us should do this.

Nothing would warm my heart more than an Elecraft group effort to help
BPL equipment manufacturers fully parameterize their unintentional
emitters. I'm sure they'd welcome our enthusiastic participation, our
expertise, and our sincere motivation to ensure that such gear complies
with *all* regulations. Talk about a great contribution to science as
well as to the radio art! Make it so....

73,
Wayne
N6KR


---

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[Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU]

I have been building a collection of DDS receivers for this task, using
boards from Elektor Electronics.  They are RS232 controlled for
frequency.  They are good general coverage receivers, though I think
they begin to tail off above 15 to 12M, as they use a 50MHz clock.  It
has been a real chore to put the parts together, as some are oddball
(470KHz Murata ceramic resonators, for example).  If anyone wants to
build one, I recommend buying the board and parts kit for $100 from the
Netherlands branch of Elektor, which is the most reliaable source.
Leigh.
On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 6:25 pm, Rich Lentz wrote:

> Perhaps the amateur radio telescope software would work.  Look at this
> web
> page,
>
> http://radiojove.gsfc.nasa.gov/  they have a kit but why not use a K1
> set to
> one (each for a day) QRP frequencies.
>
> More info here http://my.integritynet.com.au/purdic/radio-telescope.htm
>
> Perhaps several of us should do this.
>
> Used as conceived this makes a great Science Fair project for budding
> (existing) hams.
>
> Rich,
> KE0X
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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[Don Wilhelm-3]

Jeff and all,

I have no references to any program that will do the entire job -- but if
you can get the audio into the computer soundcard, I can recommend 'Total
Recorder' for recording it to a file, if your computer can make any sort of
sound, Total Recorder can capture it fo you.  See
http://www.highcriteria.com/ for the details.  In addition to recording, it
is a good tool for converting audio formats.

I have no relationship other than a satisfied customer.

73,
Don W3FPR

> -----Original Message-----
> ...
>
> Since I already have audio routed from the transceiver to the
> computer sound
> card, why not let the computer record the data? This would be very helpful
> to me since I do not have a camcorder of my own. Documenting
> audio is easy.
> The only problem is selecting a compression algorithm that gets
> the audio to
> a manageable size without losing needed information. Documenting the
> frequency is a bigger problem. A file format that records both
> the audio and
> frequency is needed.
>
> ...
>
>

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[Robert McGwier]

I have strong  opinions about  doing the job with the right tool.

A better approach is to do wideband surveillance using more appropriate
tools.  One could use the GnuRadio/USRP widget or the DCP-1/KD6OZH widget
to begin this job quite nicely.  Since you really want to demonstrate the
impact of the interference on regular operations, the goal would be to
have the wideband instruments quickly find likely candidate frequencies
for interference content and then, through computer control, tune the
narrow band resource do the actual evidence (sound file) capture.
Since you are not likely to get really accurate frequencies with the
wideband equipment, without needing a huge number of samples and very
large FFT's on what will probably not be that coherent anyway,  I would
think a receiver capable of 40Khz to 80Khz bandwidth would be better.
While not inexpensive, the SDR-1000 can be used at that bandwidth.  Since
we are not really after super performance here, I would think we could get
away with cheaper receivers but this would have to be thought out carefully
since this is the "evidence" gathering instrument.

I would suggest a search strategy doing ham band wide chunks (so you could
put some filtering in front of the FPGA based widgets) and have them
direct the narrow band resource when and where to record.

If we separated antennas sufficiently, and used (say) GPS tamed clocks
for the oscillators for the sampling,  you could do time difference of
arrival geolocation of the emitter.

I need ten day weeks and 140 hour days and two more bodies. ;-)

Bob
N4HY

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Jeff Burns
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 1:56 AM
To: 'Elecraft List'
Subject: [Elecraft] Automated BPL Interference Data Collection.


I read recently that a BPL trial is starting in my state. The trial is not
near my QTH, but it made me think I should document my current noise
environment before BPL moves into my community. What is a practical way to
get the documentation?  I have a few ideas that require programming a
computer. I will present them hear in the hope that someone will develop the
software.



My first thought was to scan through all the HF bands with a camcorder set
to look at my transceiver. This way the audio and frequency would be
documented. By periodically tuning to WWV, the exact time and date would
also be documented. The biggest problem with this is the time required to
manually scan the radio. If the process could be automated, data could be
collected during all hours of the day, and my time at the radio can be spent
making QSO's.

---------     snip  ------------------------------------------

Jeff Burns

AD9T



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[Rich Lentz]

I think you are making this to difficult.

FACTS:

BPL will cause noise across the entire HF Spectrum.
Hams only use selected portions of this spectrum.
There is no easy way to digitize the entire spectrum.
Radio Jove software will record signal strength based upon the noise level
(don't need to know the S meter reading) for as long as you let it run. 1,
2, 10, 24, 100, 1000, etc, (there is no set limit) hours.  It hooks up like
PSK, rtty, etc to your sound card.
Sampling techniques can prove increased noise at one frequency means
increased noise at other frequencies

Solution.

Using the Radio Jove software record 3 to 5 frequencies on each band at
0000, 0300, 0600, 1200, 1500, 1800, and 2100 for about 1 minute each as a
base.  Might want to include local emergency frequencies.  

The output is saved as a data file (read how the software works).

Do this again once a week (some periodicity) before BPL is installed to
establish a base line.

Do this again once a week (some periodicity) after BPL is installed.

As it is all relative any radio will do as long as the same (set of)
frequencies are used (but the frequency only needs to be close, +/- 1 kHz
not +/- 1 Hz). This technique will work with just one frequency.  The
additional are only needed to show the uninformed.

Take the date and put in ACCESS, EXCEL, etc, and plot the before and after.

Send graphs to FCC, your congressman.

Rich,
KE0X

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[Robert McGwier]

Rich:

Please read my earlier submission.  You can indeed, with existing tools,
digitize the entire spectrum.  You do not need to do this on a continuous
basis but on a sampling basis. You probably meant that you cannot
digitize, record, process, the entire spectrum on a continuous basis and
that I would not argue with, FOR NOW. However, I agree with you that we need
to concentrate on the ham bands.  We can digitize and entire ham band
AND consume it and process it with an eye towards doing some fancy footwork
with the information.

I suggest you read the November/December 2003 QEX article by my best friend,
AB2KT on Automated Signal Classification for Software Defined Radio.  Now
that we have these USRP and DCP-1 at our disposal, these kinds of fancy
processes should be coming into vogue.  With these tools we can collect
really high quality data for your spread sheets, graphs, etc.

Bob
N4HY

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Rich Lentz
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 2:20 PM
To: 'Elecraft List'
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Automated BPL Interference Data Collection.


I think you are making this to difficult.

Take the date and put in ACCESS, EXCEL, etc, and plot the before and after.

Send graphs to FCC, your congressman.

Rich,
KE0X

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[Douglas Westover]

I really like this approach, it is basically the approach I took to
determine sets of clear  frequencies to operate our SRI/WARF
OTH radar. Trying to essentially record the entire HF spectrum
produces datasets that are totally unmanageable with lots of
redundant and/or useless data.

Since what you are interested in is changes in noise level,
frequencies should be chosen to minimize the chance that
you are recording a signal. There are several algorithms
that might be used: first select frequencies in portions of
the spectrum known to be "normally" clear. This actually
might be enough as a first effort. An improvement on this
would be to search +,- an arbitrary number of kHz around
a "center" frequency and select the frequency with the
lowest noise level. I would think that you might want to sample
the spectrum every 2 MHz but that would be TBD.

A less expensive (perhaps) and less high tek approach would
be to pick up one of many strip chart recorders on the surplus
market and use it to record the AGC level out of the receiver.
The computer would control the frequency/time sequencing
of the receiver and turn on the recorder for several seconds
at each sample frequency. This of course would require lots
of manual data reduction...hey, I worked my way through school
doing just that!

Doug
W6JD


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Lentz" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Elecraft List'" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 6:19 AM
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Automated BPL Interference Data Collection.

> I think you are making this to difficult.
>
> FACTS:
>
> BPL will cause noise across the entire HF Spectrum.
> Hams only use selected portions of this spectrum.
> There is no easy way to digitize the entire spectrum.
> Radio Jove software will record signal strength based upon the noise level
> (don't need to know the S meter reading) for as long as you let it run. 1,
> 2, 10, 24, 100, 1000, etc, (there is no set limit) hours.  It hooks up

like

> PSK, rtty, etc to your sound card.
> Sampling techniques can prove increased noise at one frequency means
> increased noise at other frequencies
>
> Solution.
>
> Using the Radio Jove software record 3 to 5 frequencies on each band at
> 0000, 0300, 0600, 1200, 1500, 1800, and 2100 for about 1 minute each as a
> base.  Might want to include local emergency frequencies.
>
> The output is saved as a data file (read how the software works).
>
> Do this again once a week (some periodicity) before BPL is installed to
> establish a base line.
>
> Do this again once a week (some periodicity) after BPL is installed.
>
> As it is all relative any radio will do as long as the same (set of)
> frequencies are used (but the frequency only needs to be close, +/- 1 kHz
> not +/- 1 Hz). This technique will work with just one frequency.  The
> additional are only needed to show the uninformed.
>
> Take the date and put in ACCESS, EXCEL, etc, and plot the before and

after.

>
> Send graphs to FCC, your congressman.
>
> Rich,
> KE0X
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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