Battery power problems.

[Thomas Beltran]

I ran my K2 last weekend on a battery (from my backyard – fully charged 52 Ah. Gel cell), and everyone on the net (40 meter SSB) complained that the signal was distorted and just plain sounded very bad.  One person suggested that it was the 12 volts put out by the battery, rather than the typical 13.8 volts.  I brought out my power supply and everything worked fine.  I guess it was surprising that this radio, that I understood was for portable operation wouldn’t work well on battery power.  Has anyone else experienced this or is it unique to my radio?  This is a 4000 serial number.  I have on order the W4RRY battery booster.  By comparison, my FT-857 seems unaffected by 12 volts.  Tom W6EIJ

 


Thomas E. Beltran, Esq.
BELTRAN, BELTRAN, SMITH OPPEL & MACKENZIE, L.L.P.
2501 West Burbank Blvd.
Suite 200
Burbank, California 91505

Telephone: [phone]
Facsimile:  [phone]

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[Ingo Meyer DK3RED]

Hello Tom,

> I ran my K2 last weekend on a battery (from my backyard – fully
> charged 52 Ah. Gel cell), and everyone on the net (40 meter SSB)
> complained that the signal was distorted and just plain sounded very
> bad.  One person suggested that it was the 12 volts put out by the
> battery, rather than the typical 13.8 volts.  I brought out my power
> supply and everything worked fine.  I guess it was surprising that
> this radio, that I understood was for portable operation wouldn’t
> work well on battery power.  Has anyone else experienced this or is it
> unique to my radio?  This is a 4000 serial number.  I have on order
> the W4RRY battery booster.  By comparison, my FT-857 seems unaffected
> by 12 volts.  Tom W6EIJ

I don't have newer any problem with my K2 at battery voltage lower than
12 volts. Sometime I work with my K2 (#01118) until the transceiver
beeps in my ears, because the voltage is under 11 volts or so.
---
72/73 de Ingo, DK3RED - Don't forget: the fun is the power!

   [hidden email] - www.dk3red.homepage.t-online.de
     DL-QRP-AG   #824 - www.dl-qrp-ag.de
      QRP ARCI #11295 - www.qrparci.org
        DARC #2360404 - www.darc.de




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[Trevor Day]

Hi Tom, the K2 works very well from a 12v supply in normal
circumstances; indeed, it is designed to run from an internal 12v supply
as an option.

There are two possibilities that spring to mind from your description of
the problem:

1.  You may be using a long power cable that is too light duty for the
task and therefore causing a volt drop at the K2.
2.  There is RF getting into the power line and causing the distortion
you experienced.

HTH

Trev G3ZYY

In message
<[hidden email]
 >, Thomas Beltran <[hidden email]> writes

>I ran my K2 last weekend on a battery (from my backyard – fully
>charged 52 Ah. Gel cell), and everyone on the net (40 meter SSB)
>complained that the signal was distorted and just plain sounded very
>bad. One person suggested that it was the 12 volts put out by the
>battery, rather than the typical 13.8 volts.  I brought out my power
>supply and everything worked fine.  I guess it was surprising that this
>radio, that I understood was for portable operation wouldn’t
>work well on battery power.  Has anyone else experienced this or is it
>unique to my radio? This is a 4000 serial number.  I have on order the
>W4RRY battery booster.  By comparison, my FT-857 seems unaffected by 12
>volts.  Tom W6EIJ
>
>
>
>
>Thomas E. Beltran, Esq.
>BELTRAN, BELTRAN, SMITH OPPEL & MACKENZIE, L.L.P.
>2501 West Burbank Blvd.
>Suite 200
>Burbank, California 91505
>
>Telephone: [phone]
>Facsimile:  [phone]
>
>_______________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Post to: [hidden email]
>You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

--
Trevor Day
UKSMG #217
www.uksmg.org

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[Mark J. Schreiner]

Thomas,

I exclusively run my K2 with battery power (oh, I think I've used an
Astron RS-20M on it once). I haven't had the problems you are
experiencing just because it was run on a battery. Many times from out
in the field I use smaller 7 AH gelcells (well, they are smaller than
what I usually use as you'll see) when I put the rig, battery, antenna,
etc in a backpack and go hiking to set up somewhere on the Appalachian
Trail. These are the same batteries that are used in many UPS devices.
When I'm home or where I can operate from a drive-up location for
portable use I use the same type of battery, but it is in either an 18
or 28 AH package in an automotive battery booster. I used one of those
for the whole Field Day weekend last year without any problem at all on
SSB. I've run the gelcells down to a reading of about 10.8 VDC at the
radio during transmit at 5W, however the battery itself is still at
about 11.8 VDC at 25% capacity at which time I swap out the booster pack
for another fully charged one.

The only thing I did notice was that the el-cheapo cigarette lighter
plug with small gauge wires definitely has more voltage drop than the
heavier (and shorter) one I made up with 16 Ga wire. So, if voltage is
at a premium I would opt for the cable I made up.

I doubt the problem is with the battery. Could be the wires from the
battery to the rig causing excessive voltage drop. You also want to keep
the RF away from the battery to rig wire, so don't wrap the feedline
around the battery cable for example. I assume you're just running 5W
since you didn't say you are running a K2/100, but this would be even
more important at 100W.

73,

Mark, NK8Q
K2 4786

Thomas Beltran wrote:

> I ran my K2 last weekend on a battery (from my backyard – fully charged 52 Ah. Gel cell), and everyone on the net (40 meter SSB) complained that the signal was distorted and just plain sounded very bad.  One person suggested that it was the 12 volts put out by the battery, rather than the typical 13.8 volts.  I brought out my power supply and everything worked fine.  I guess it was surprising that this radio, that I understood was for portable operation wouldn’t work well on battery power.  Has anyone else experienced this or is it unique to my radio?  This is a 4000 serial number.  I have on order the W4RRY battery booster.  By comparison, my FT-857 seems unaffected by 12 volts.  Tom W6EIJ
>
>  
>
>
> Thomas E. Beltran, Esq.
> BELTRAN, BELTRAN, SMITH OPPEL & MACKENZIE, L.L.P.
> 2501 West Burbank Blvd.
> Suite 200
> Burbank, California 91505
>
> Telephone: [phone]
> Facsimile:  [phone]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>  

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[Thomas Beltran]

>
>1.  You may be using a long power cable that is too light duty for the
>task and therefore causing a volt drop at the K2.
>2.  There is RF getting into the power line and causing the distortion
>you experienced.
>

Thanks for the replies.  I am using #12 wire, with Anderson powerpole connectors.  The battery cable is about eight inches long, and it goes to a Rigrunner.  The cable for the K2 is also # 12, and it is about one foot or so long, also hooking up to the Rigrunner.  When I switched to the power supply (Alinco DM-330MV) it was also connected to the Rigrunner, with a little bit longer #12 cable.  What cable size should I use?  Maybe 52 Ah. is too little for the K2/100?  Tom

Thomas E. Beltran, Esq.
BELTRAN, BELTRAN, SMITH OPPEL & MACKENZIE, L.L.P.
2501 West Burbank Blvd.
Suite 200
Burbank, California 91505

Telephone: [phone]
Facsimile:  [phone]

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[Mike Scott-7]

Why don't you measure the voltage drop with a volt meter and let us know
what it is? A 52-AH battery should be sufficient to run a 100 watt rig but
as batteries age their internal resistance increases with the effect seen as
a higher drop in terminal voltage under load. There could also be a weak
cell in the battery.
I would like to see the battery terminal voltage when the battery is under
full load.

Mike Scott
AE6WA
Tarzana, CA (near LA)
Elecraft KX1 4-Watts

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Thomas Beltran
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 6:24 AM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Battery power problems.



>
>1.  You may be using a long power cable that is too light duty for the
>task and therefore causing a volt drop at the K2.
>2.  There is RF getting into the power line and causing the distortion
>you experienced.
>

Thanks for the replies.  I am using #12 wire, with Anderson powerpole
connectors.  The battery cable is about eight inches long, and it goes to a
Rigrunner.  The cable for the K2 is also # 12, and it is about one foot or
so long, also hooking up to the Rigrunner.  When I switched to the power
supply (Alinco DM-330MV) it was also connected to the Rigrunner, with a
little bit longer #12 cable.  What cable size should I use?  Maybe 52 Ah. is
too little for the K2/100?  Tom

Thomas E. Beltran, Esq.
BELTRAN, BELTRAN, SMITH OPPEL & MACKENZIE, L.L.P.
2501 West Burbank Blvd.
Suite 200
Burbank, California 91505

Telephone: [phone]
Facsimile:  [phone]

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[Dan Barker]

Any magnetic fields nearby? A standby charger on the GelCell perhaps?

Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456
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[Don Wilhelm-3]

Tom,

the #12 cable should be just fine for the K2/100, BUT the battery may be
suspect - yes that battery size should be just fine  but if you are running
at higher power, that battery should allow you operation for about 2 hours
if it is in top condition.  The condition of the battery may have a lot to
do with the situation - many batteries develop a high internal resistance as
they age.  Connect that K2 to a good deep cycle (or well charged automotive)
battery as a test and you will likely find better results.

Tap the display button and look at the voltage on the K2 display while
transmitting with that 52 Ah battery and you may be surprised how low the
voltage will go.  The K2 receiver will operate down to about 9 volts, but
transmit will have its limits.  Normally you should not let the battery
voltage drop below 11 volts.

Another thing to check is the APP connectors - if they were crimped, did you
use a good crimper?  The non-rachetted crimpers are usually just not
adequate to assure a good connection - try soldering the connectors to get a
good low resistance, high current worthy connection (fill the connector with
solder but don't get any on the outside).

73,
Don W3FPR


> -----Original Message-----
  What cable size should I use?  Maybe 52 Ah. is too
> little for the K2/100?  Tom
>
>

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[Vic K2VCO]

Thomas Beltran wrote:

> Thanks for the replies.  I am using #12 wire, with Anderson powerpole
> connectors.  The battery cable is about eight inches long, and it
> goes to a Rigrunner.  The cable for the K2 is also # 12, and it is
> about one foot or so long, also hooking up to the Rigrunner.  When I
> switched to the power supply (Alinco DM-330MV) it was also connected
> to the Rigrunner, with a little bit longer #12 cable.  What cable
> size should I use?  Maybe 52 Ah. is too little for the K2/100?  Tom

I noticed a drop of about 0.6 volts across my Rigrunner when running 100
watts.  This bothered me (I'm easily bothered) so I connect the K2/100
directly to the power supply with an inline fuse.

--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Stuart Rohre]

The problem could well be the age of your battery and its aging rise in
internal impedance.  If it will not charge to 13 plus volts of a fully
charged battery, it indicates excessive internal resistance/ age.

The fact everything cleared up on an AC to DC supply supports the battery as
a problem battery.
If the battery is 3 years old, expect problems.   Most security companies
and others relying on gel cells change them out in 2-3 years, even if they
have not been heavily used.

Stuart
K5KVH


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