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Beam antenna question

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Terry

Beam antenna question

I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question, but
having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would ask. I will be
moving to a new QTH. I just took down an old Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft.
tower. It was the predecessor to the A4. I need a beam with a smaller
footprint. I am looking at the Mosley TA 33-JR. My other antenna will be
a multi-band doublet fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work
the WARC bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about roof
level, so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my local CW skeds
on 80 and 40. My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft. above my roofline to the
east. My QTH will be high on a hill facing the east. With that background,
here is the question:

If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC, with the WARC bands included,
even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to rotate the beam
make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands better in all other
directions than the orientation of my doublet? My intuition says yes, but I
thought I would ask.

Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually perform
better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my low height doublet
will not be as effective as a WARC beam. My doublet will be just at the
height of my house and drop to 10 foot poles on the NW and SW lot corners.

I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter horizontal loop
at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be made. Being primarily a CW
op will help some.

Any advice would be really appreciated!

Very 73's,

Terry de N7TB

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David Christ

Re: Beam antenna question

For a small footprint it is hard to beat the K4KIO hexagonal beam. I have one and it works well but a better testimonial is a ham about 10 blocks away with the same antenna and he is on DXCC Honor Roll. hight is about 35 feet. No tuner needed and all bands 20 through 10 plus six if you want it.

Just a satisfied customer

David K0LUM

> On May 19, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Terry Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question, but
> having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would ask. I will be
> moving to a new QTH. I just took down an old Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft.
> tower. It was the predecessor to the A4. I need a beam with a smaller
> footprint. I am looking at the Mosley TA 33-JR. My other antenna will be
> a multi-band doublet fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work
> the WARC bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about roof
> level, so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my local CW skeds
> on 80 and 40. My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft. above my roofline to the
> east. My QTH will be high on a hill facing the east. With that background,
> here is the question:
>
>
>
> If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC, with the WARC bands included,
> even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to rotate the beam
> make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands better in all other
> directions than the orientation of my doublet? My intuition says yes, but I
> thought I would ask.
>
>
>
> Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually perform
> better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my low height doublet
> will not be as effective as a WARC beam. My doublet will be just at the
> height of my house and drop to 10 foot poles on the NW and SW lot corners.
>
>
>
> I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter horizontal loop
> at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be made. Being primarily a CW
> op will help some.
>
>
>
> Any advice would be really appreciated!
>
>
>
> Very 73's,
>
>
>
> Terry de N7TB
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Ian Kahn, KM4IK

Re: Beam antenna question

In reply to this post by Terry

Terry,
If you need a beam with a smaller footprint, have you consider one of
the many hex-beams that are available? I've had one for several years
and really enjoy it. I have a 5-band model that covers all bands, 20m-
10m, WARC bands included. Mine has about as much gain on each band as a
2-element beam, with a moderate front-to-back ratio (about 9 db or so).
Mine is an older model of the original Traffie Technologies HX5-Bi.
Traffie is no longer in business, but there are a few vendors in the US
that offer beams or kits for beams, and if you visit http://www.karinya
.net/g3txq/hexbeam/, there is a wonderful tutorial on the hex-beam,
along with links to plans so you can homebrew yours.
I have mine on a 30' Force 12 tilt-up mast, so it sits just a few feet
above my roof line. It has something like a 21' turn radius, and about
a 9 pound windload. And the whole antenna only weighs in at about 25
pounds. With this antenna, and my K-Line, if I can hear 'em, I can work
'em!
Good luck with your move and setting up at your new QTH.
73 de,
--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA EM74ua
[hidden email]
10-10 #74624 North Georgia Chapter #2038PODXS 070 #1962
K3 #281, P3 #688 KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468
On Fri, 2017-05-19 at 23:40 +0000, Terry Brown wrote:

> I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question,
> but
> having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would ask.  I
> will be
> moving to a new QTH.  I just took down an old Cushcraft ATB-34, on a
> 50 ft.
> tower.  It was the predecessor to the A4.  I need a beam with a
> smaller
> footprint.  I am looking at the Mosley TA 33-JR.    My other antenna
> will be
> a multi-band doublet fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to
> work
> the WARC bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high,
> about roof
> level,  so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my local
> CW skeds
> on 80 and 40.  My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft. above my roofline
> to the
> east.  My QTH will be high on a hill facing the east.  With that
> background,
> here is the question:
>
>
>
> If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC,  with the WARC bands
> included,
> even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to rotate the
> beam
> make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands better in all other
> directions than the orientation of my doublet?  My intuition says
> yes, but I
> thought I would ask.
>
>
>
> Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually
> perform
> better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my low height
> doublet
> will not be as effective as a WARC beam.  My doublet will be just at
> the
> height of my house and drop to 10 foot poles on the NW and SW lot
> corners.
>
>
>
> I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter
> horizontal loop
> at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be made.   Being
> primarily a CW
> op will help some.
>
>
>
> Any advice would be really appreciated!
>
>
>
> Very 73's,
>
>
>
> Terry de N7TB
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--

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Tony Estep

Re: Beam antenna question

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Ian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ...have you consider one of
> the many hex-beams that are available? ... I have a 5-band model...

===========
What Ian said! I put up a 5-band hex-beam on my chimney, 21 feet off the
ground. The results were terrific. My model came from DX Engineering, and
I'm sure there are other good ones. With that antenna and 500 watts, I
found that I could succeed in just about any pileup. Highly recommended.

73,
Tony KT0NY
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Dale Boresz

Re: Beam antenna question

I agree 100% about the hex beam; I had the original Traffie 20m monobander
and now have the K4KIO broadband 5-band hex beam. Both work extremely well
on their designed bands. However -- it has been my experience that a
5-band hex beam works great as a very low-noise receiving antenna on 40m
and 80m, especially when used as one of the antennas in a diversity receive
configuration with the K3. Not surprisingly, the hex beam exhibits no
directivity when used as a receiving antenna on 40 & 80m.

73,

Dale - WA8SRA

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 8:12 PM, Tony Estep <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Ian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > ...have you consider one of
> > the many hex-beams that are available? ... I have a 5-band model...
>
> ===========
> What Ian said! I put up a 5-band hex-beam on my chimney, 21 feet off the
> ground. The results were terrific. My model came from DX Engineering, and
> I'm sure there are other good ones. With that antenna and 500 watts, I
> found that I could succeed in just about any pileup. Highly recommended.
>
> 73,
> Tony KT0NY
> ______________________________________________________________
>

Vic Rosenthal

Re: Beam antenna question

In reply to this post by David Christ

I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I
would recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my
guess is that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all
those traps.

The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My
experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY
important (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.

I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to
rotate it! But it isn't a beam.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 20 May 2017 03:02, David Christ wrote:

> For a small footprint it is hard to beat the K4KIO hexagonal beam. I
> have one and it works well but a better testimonial is a ham about 10
> blocks away with the same antenna and he is on DXCC Honor Roll.
> hight is about 35 feet. No tuner needed and all bands 20 through 10
> plus six if you want it.
>
> Just a satisfied customer
>
> David K0LUM
>
>
>> On May 19, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Terry Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question,
>> but having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would
>> ask. I will be moving to a new QTH. I just took down an old
>> Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft. tower. It was the predecessor to the
>> A4. I need a beam with a smaller footprint. I am looking at the
>> Mosley TA 33-JR. My other antenna will be a multi-band doublet
>> fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work the WARC
>> bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about
>> roof level, so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my
>> local CW skeds on 80 and 40. My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft.
>> above my roofline to the east. My QTH will be high on a hill
>> facing the east. With that background, here is the question:
>>
>>
>>
>> If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC, with the WARC bands
>> included, even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to
>> rotate the beam make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands
>> better in all other directions than the orientation of my doublet?
>> My intuition says yes, but I thought I would ask.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually
>> perform better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my
>> low height doublet will not be as effective as a WARC beam. My
>> doublet will be just at the height of my house and drop to 10 foot
>> poles on the NW and SW lot corners.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter
>> horizontal loop at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be
>> made. Being primarily a CW op will help some.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any advice would be really appreciated!
>>
>>
>>
>> Very 73's,
>>
>>
>>
>> Terry de N7TB

Igor Sokolov-2

Re: Beam antenna question

Terry,

As many others mentioned? Hex beam is the best choise. I have 3 of them
made by EU manufacturers (very good quality). And one of them
(www.foldinganteannas.com) is even foldable and very light weight.

You may also look for MW0JZE Hex. he also makes light version. Do not
mess with Al antennas. Hex Beam is much better and easier for portable
operation.

73, Igor UA9CDC

20.05.2017 8:48, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP пишет:

> I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
> and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I
> would recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but
> my guess is that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with
> all those traps.
>
> The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My
> experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY
> important (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.
>
> I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to
> rotate it! But it isn't a beam.
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
> On 20 May 2017 03:02, David Christ wrote:
>> For a small footprint it is hard to beat the K4KIO hexagonal beam. I
>> have one and it works well but a better testimonial is a ham about 10
>> blocks away with the same antenna and he is on DXCC Honor Roll.
>> hight is about 35 feet. No tuner needed and all bands 20 through 10
>> plus six if you want it.
>>
>> Just a satisfied customer
>>
>> David K0LUM
>>
>>
>>> On May 19, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Terry Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question,
>>> but having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would
>>> ask. I will be moving to a new QTH. I just took down an old
>>> Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft. tower. It was the predecessor to the
>>> A4. I need a beam with a smaller footprint. I am looking at the
>>> Mosley TA 33-JR. My other antenna will be a multi-band doublet
>>> fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work the WARC
>>> bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about
>>> roof level, so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my
>>> local CW skeds on 80 and 40. My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft.
>>> above my roofline to the east. My QTH will be high on a hill
>>> facing the east. With that background, here is the question:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC, with the WARC bands
>>> included, even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to
>>> rotate the beam make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands
>>> better in all other directions than the orientation of my doublet?
>>> My intuition says yes, but I thought I would ask.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually
>>> perform better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my
>>> low height doublet will not be as effective as a WARC beam. My
>>> doublet will be just at the height of my house and drop to 10 foot
>>> poles on the NW and SW lot corners.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter
>>> horizontal loop at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be
>>> made. Being primarily a CW op will help some.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any advice would be really appreciated!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Very 73's,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Terry de N7TB
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Ted Edwards W3TB

Re: Beam antenna question

The low visual profile is helpful to keep the neighbors from noticing.
I wonder whether anybody has done anything else to minimize the visual
impact even further line a non-metallic spray paint.
Thanks ahead of time, good folks.

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 5:33 AM, Igor Sokolov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Terry,
>
> As many others mentioned? Hex beam is the best choise. I have 3 of them
> made by EU manufacturers (very good quality). And one of them (
> www.foldinganteannas.com) is even foldable and very light weight.
>
> You may also look for MW0JZE Hex. he also makes light version. Do not mess
> with Al antennas. Hex Beam is much better and easier for portable operation.
>
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>
>
> 20.05.2017 8:48, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP пишет:
>
>> I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
>> and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I would
>> recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my guess is
>> that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all those traps.
>>
>> The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My
>> experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY important
>> (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.
>>
>> I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to
>> rotate it! But it isn't a beam.
>>
>> 73,
>> Victor, 4X6GP
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> Formerly K2VCO
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>>
>> On 20 May 2017 03:02, David Christ wrote:
>>
>>> For a small footprint it is hard to beat the K4KIO hexagonal beam. I
>>> have one and it works well but a better testimonial is a ham about 10
>>> blocks away with the same antenna and he is on DXCC Honor Roll.
>>> hight is about 35 feet. No tuner needed and all bands 20 through 10
>>> plus six if you want it.
>>>
>>> Just a satisfied customer
>>>
>>> David K0LUM
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 19, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Terry Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question,
>>>> but having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would
>>>> ask. I will be moving to a new QTH. I just took down an old
>>>> Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft. tower. It was the predecessor to the
>>>> A4. I need a beam with a smaller footprint. I am looking at the
>>>> Mosley TA 33-JR. My other antenna will be a multi-band doublet
>>>> fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work the WARC
>>>> bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about
>>>> roof level, so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my
>>>> local CW skeds on 80 and 40. My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft.
>>>> above my roofline to the east. My QTH will be high on a hill
>>>> facing the east. With that background, here is the question:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC, with the WARC bands
>>>> included, even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to
>>>> rotate the beam make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands
>>>> better in all other directions than the orientation of my doublet?
>>>> My intuition says yes, but I thought I would ask.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually
>>>> perform better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my
>>>> low height doublet will not be as effective as a WARC beam. My
>>>> doublet will be just at the height of my house and drop to 10 foot
>>>> poles on the NW and SW lot corners.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter
>>>> horizontal loop at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be
>>>> made. Being primarily a CW op will help some.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any advice would be really appreciated!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Very 73's,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Terry de N7TB
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--
73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW

and thinking about operating CW:
"Do today what others won't,
so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Message delivered to [hidden email]

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Beam antenna question

I have that kind of neighbor hood, so I painted the spreaders grey, and the mast and cables grey, to match the garage and the too frequent midwestern sky, put the mast base and rotor inside the garage, so the hex just kinds blooms about 10 foot over the roof.

With the rotor and base hidden, most people don't notice unless I point it out.

Good luck, Scott ka9p

Make something good happen!

> On May 20, 2017, at 6:42 AM, Ted Edwards W3TB <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The low visual profile is helpful to keep the neighbors from noticing.
> I wonder whether anybody has done anything else to minimize the visual
> impact even further line a non-metallic spray paint.
> Thanks ahead of time, good folks.
>
>> On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 5:33 AM, Igor Sokolov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Terry,
>>
>> As many others mentioned? Hex beam is the best choise. I have 3 of them
>> made by EU manufacturers (very good quality). And one of them (
>> www.foldinganteannas.com) is even foldable and very light weight.
>>
>> You may also look for MW0JZE Hex. he also makes light version. Do not mess
>> with Al antennas. Hex Beam is much better and easier for portable operation.
>>
>>
>> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>>
>>
>> 20.05.2017 8:48, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP пишет:
>>
>>> I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
>>> and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I would
>>> recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my guess is
>>> that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all those traps.
>>>
>>> The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My
>>> experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY important
>>> (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.
>>>
>>> I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to
>>> rotate it! But it isn't a beam.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Victor, 4X6GP
>>> Rehovot, Israel
>>> Formerly K2VCO
>>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>>>
>>>> On 20 May 2017 03:02, David Christ wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For a small footprint it is hard to beat the K4KIO hexagonal beam. I
>>>> have one and it works well but a better testimonial is a ham about 10
>>>> blocks away with the same antenna and he is on DXCC Honor Roll.
>>>> hight is about 35 feet. No tuner needed and all bands 20 through 10
>>>> plus six if you want it.
>>>>
>>>> Just a satisfied customer
>>>>
>>>> David K0LUM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On May 19, 2017, at 7:40 PM, Terry Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I apologize that this is not a direct Elecraft equipment question,
>>>>> but having the K2, KX2, KX3, PX3 and KXPA100, I thought I would
>>>>> ask. I will be moving to a new QTH. I just took down an old
>>>>> Cushcraft ATB-34, on a 50 ft. tower. It was the predecessor to the
>>>>> A4. I need a beam with a smaller footprint. I am looking at the
>>>>> Mosley TA 33-JR. My other antenna will be a multi-band doublet
>>>>> fed with 450 window line, so it will be able to work the WARC
>>>>> bands, however, the apex will only be about 25 ft. high, about
>>>>> roof level, so it will mostly be a cloud burner, but great for my
>>>>> local CW skeds on 80 and 40. My beam will be at 32-35 ft; 8 ft.
>>>>> above my roofline to the east. My QTH will be high on a hill
>>>>> facing the east. With that background, here is the question:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If I were to order the Mosley TA33-JR-N-WARC, with the WARC bands
>>>>> included, even though they will have zero gain, will the ability to
>>>>> rotate the beam make the reception of the 12 and 17 meter bands
>>>>> better in all other directions than the orientation of my doublet?
>>>>> My intuition says yes, but I thought I would ask.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I know that longer length antennas for a given band usually
>>>>> perform better than a trapped antenna, but I would think that my
>>>>> low height doublet will not be as effective as a WARC beam. My
>>>>> doublet will be just at the height of my house and drop to 10 foot
>>>>> poles on the NW and SW lot corners.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I hated to give up my 50 ft. tower and beam, and my 80 meter
>>>>> horizontal loop at 40 ft., but sometimes compromises have to be
>>>>> made. Being primarily a CW op will help some.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Any advice would be really appreciated!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Very 73's,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Terry de N7TB
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
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>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> 73 de Ted Edwards, W3TB and GØPWW
>
> and thinking about operating CW:
> "Do today what others won't,
> so you can do tomorrow what others can't."
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Benny Aumala-2

Re: Beam antenna question

In reply to this post by Terry

Terry,

Look at the footprint of UB20MX

http://www.ultrabeam.it/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=18&lang=en

Benny OH9NB

---
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Richard Fjeld-2

Re: Beam antenna question

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

I had a TA33Jr back in the 70’s when the sun cycle was good. I had a Ten-Tec Argonaut QRP rig and worked a lot of DX with it BUT conditions were very good. Note is was only for three bands.

I second what Vic is saying, though I am speaking about hex beams in general. Hex beams are a good solution at times. I have talked to many who were using them. Vic’s comment about ‘low profile’ can be important. I have heard people say their neighbors were not aware it was a ham radio antenna. I have also read they only need to be up about 20 feet high. They are said to be good in the wind. (Maybe all this has been mentioned)

Rich, n0ce

From: Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:49 PM
To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>; Terry Brown<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question

I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I
would recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my
guess is that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all
those traps.

The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My
experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY
important (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.

I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to
rotate it! But it isn't a beam.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

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Terry

Re: Beam antenna question

I really appreciate all the comments. I do have a follow up question:

An aluminum beam can be left up for years. I was reading one review of a particular hex beam and the poster said that after 4 years, the cords holding the beam together had become brittle and started to fail from UV exposure and the main support members had deteriorated for same reason.

These beams are not cheap, I don't want to be taking the beam down and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.

Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?

Thanks, Terry

> On May 20, 2017, at 8:07 AM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I had a TA33Jr back in the 70’s when the sun cycle was good. I had a Ten-Tec Argonaut QRP rig and worked a lot of DX with it BUT conditions were very good. Note is was only for three bands.
>
> I second what Vic is saying, though I am speaking about hex beams in general. Hex beams are a good solution at times. I have talked to many who were using them. Vic’s comment about ‘low profile’ can be important. I have heard people say their neighbors were not aware it was a ham radio antenna. I have also read they only need to be up about 20 feet high. They are said to be good in the wind. (Maybe all this has been mentioned)
>
> Rich, n0ce
>
> From: Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:49 PM
> To: [hidden email]; Terry Brown
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question
>
> I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
> and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I
> would recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my
> guess is that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all
> those traps.
>
> The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My
> experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY
> important (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.
>
> I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to
> rotate it! But it isn't a beam.
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Beam antenna question

On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
> These beams are not cheap, I don't want to be taking the beam down
> and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
>
> Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?

Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and
dacron/kevlar cords.

Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
XR5T:
<http://innovantennas.com/antennas-a-accesories/on-line-shop/view/productdetails/virtuemart_product_id/435/virtuemart_category_id/55.html>,

or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:
<https://jkantennas.com/jk-navassa-5.html>

Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and
have optional 6 meter add-ons. Either should significantly out
perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do
not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should
significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:

> I really appreciate all the comments. I do have a follow up
> question:
>
> An aluminum beam can be left up for years. I was reading one review
> of a particular hex beam and the poster said that after 4 years, the
> cords holding the beam together had become brittle and started to
> fail from UV exposure and the main support members had deteriorated
> for same reason.
>
> These beams are not cheap, I don't want to be taking the beam down
> and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
>
> Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?
>
> Thanks, Terry
>

Phil Hystad-3

Re: Beam antenna question

In reply to this post by Terry

I have a Traffie Hexbeam (Traffie retired and the company is no longer in business) and it has been up for about 12 years. My last check of the elements, coaxial connection and so on showed no problems what-so-ever. Operating performance seems to be just as good today as when it first went up in 2005. Weather has been rain (mostly), sun with high temperatures reaching into the 90s usually in August (one recorded day at 103 though), and snow once or twice a year but the snow never lasts for more than a day or two at most on the antenna.

I am not sure about other vendor’s versions of the Hexbeam but mine has been a worthy contender in the battle with weather.

By the way, the Hexbeam is visible from the Google satellite photos of my house.

73, phil, K7PEH

> On May 20, 2017, at 8:32 AM, Terry Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I really appreciate all the comments. I do have a follow up question:
>
> An aluminum beam can be left up for years. I was reading one review of a particular hex beam and the poster said that after 4 years, the cords holding the beam together had become brittle and started to fail from UV exposure and the main support members had deteriorated for same reason.
>
> These beams are not cheap, I don't want to be taking the beam down and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
>
> Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?
>
> Thanks, Terry
>
>> On May 20, 2017, at 8:07 AM, Richard Fjeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I had a TA33Jr back in the 70’s when the sun cycle was good. I had a Ten-Tec Argonaut QRP rig and worked a lot of DX with it BUT conditions were very good. Note is was only for three bands.
>>
>> I second what Vic is saying, though I am speaking about hex beams in general. Hex beams are a good solution at times. I have talked to many who were using them. Vic’s comment about ‘low profile’ can be important. I have heard people say their neighbors were not aware it was a ham radio antenna. I have also read they only need to be up about 20 feet high. They are said to be good in the wind. (Maybe all this has been mentioned)
>>
>> Rich, n0ce
>>
>> From: Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP
>> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:49 PM
>> To: [hidden email]; Terry Brown
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Beam antenna question
>>
>> I used the K4KIO hexbeam on Field Day -- it was very easy to assemble
>> and the parts were high quality. It is also visually low-profile. I
>> would recommend it. I don't have any experience with the TA33 Jr. but my
>> guess is that there are a lot more things that can go wrong with all
>> those traps.
>>
>> The hexbeam will have gain on WARC bands as well as 10-15-20. My
>> experience is that with conditions as they are today, 17m is VERY
>> important (so is 30, for that matter) for DXing.
>>
>> I have a rotatable dipole and yes, it definitely does help a lot to
>> rotate it! But it isn't a beam.
>>
>> 73,
>> Victor, 4X6GP
>> Rehovot, Israel
>> Formerly K2VCO
>> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

AC6SL

Re: Beam antenna question

>> ...I don't want to be taking the beam down and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
>> Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?

I have had several homebrew hexbeams, which have survived weather quite well.

1. Use UV-resistant cord, e.g. 3/32" "Antenna Rope" double braided polyester.

2. Paint the fiberglass spreaders, 2 coats, e.g. black "Fusion" spray
paint, recommended for plastic lawn furniture.

3. Use a coaxial center post, i.e. aluminum rod inside aluminum tube,
so that only the stainless steel screw heads are exposed to weather.

4. Use a 90-degree fitting to attach the feedline, so that it can hang
straight down, alongside the center post.

-John AC6SL
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: Beam antenna question

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?"
The point about uv is well taken re fiberglass, but I don't know what the cords on all the hexbeam versions are made of. There are uv resistant materials available.
I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements has an especially low visual profile!

Vic 4X6GP

> On 20 May 2017, at 19:36, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
> > These beams are not cheap, I don't want to be taking the beam down
> > and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
> >
> > Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?
>
> Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and
> dacron/kevlar cords.
>
> Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
> XR5T: <http://innovantennas.com/antennas-a-accesories/on-line-shop/view/productdetails/virtuemart_product_id/435/virtuemart_category_id/55.html>,
> or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:
> <https://jkantennas.com/jk-navassa-5.html>
>
> Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and
> have optional 6 meter add-ons. Either should significantly out
> perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do
> not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should
> significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Beam antenna question

> Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?"

Based on the performance data (K7LXC/N0AX) for the original Force 12
C3 and TH11 with comparisons of the broadband Hexbeam and the TH11.
The K7LXC/N0AX field data shows the C3 outperforming the TH11 while
G3TXQ's web page <http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/hexbeam/broadband/>
shows the TH11 with approximately 3 dB advantage over the broadband
hexbeam.

> I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements
> has an especially low visual profile!

Neither the XR5 nor the Navassa 5 has 11 elements *or* capacity hats.
The XR5 is a 9-element antenna and the Navassa 5 has 10 elements as
documented in the two links I provided.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 5/20/2017 3:34 PM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

> Why do you think it will "significantly outperform the hex beams?"
> The point about uv is well taken re fiberglass, but I don't know what the cords on all the hexbeam versions are made of. There are uv resistant materials available.
> I wouldn't say an 11 element yagi with capacity hats on the elements has an especially low visual profile!
>
> Vic 4X6GP
>
>> On 20 May 2017, at 19:36, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
>>> These beams are not cheap, I don't want to be taking the beam down
>>> and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
>>>
>>> Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?
>>
>> Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and
>> dacron/kevlar cords.
>>
>> Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
>> XR5T: <http://innovantennas.com/antennas-a-accesories/on-line-shop/view/productdetails/virtuemart_product_id/435/virtuemart_category_id/55.html>,
>> or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:
>> <https://jkantennas.com/jk-navassa-5.html>
>>
>> Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and
>> have optional 6 meter add-ons. Either should significantly out
>> perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do
>> not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should
>> significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>

Igor Sokolov-2

Re: Beam antenna question

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Joe,

Reality sometimes differ from calculations.

XR5T has shortened 20m elements and pretty poor F/B as compared to Hex.
Last year we were operating in WPX contest from Madeira, CT9 and had 2
antennas up on 15m band. One was 4 el Op-Des 15m full size monobander
from Innovantennas. Another one was Hex. Both installed at the same
height of 10m above the ground. We were surprised to find out that Hex
had been always outperforming 4el Innov into Eu and the USA. so we ended
up using only Hex.

Besides XR5 is 3 times heavier them Hex and much more visible (let it's
price alone).

BTW is somebody wants a pair of these 4el 15m full size monoband
Innovantennas, they are for sale, stored in Madeira, and we are selling
them for 50% of their original price.

Fiberglass spreaders of our Hex are coming from Maxgain and UV
resistant. So are wires and ropes. All bolts and nuts are made of
stainless steel.

73, Igor UA9CDC

20.05.2017 21:36, Joe Subich, W4TV пишет:

> On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
> > These beams are not cheap, I don't want to be taking the beam down
> > and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
> >
> > Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?
>
> Your concerns are well placed with antennas made of fiberglass and
> dacron/kevlar cords.
>
> Instead of a hexbeam, I would recommend looking at the Innovantennas
> XR5T:
> <http://innovantennas.com/antennas-a-accesories/on-line-shop/view/productdetails/virtuemart_product_id/435/virtuemart_category_id/55.html>,
>
> or the JK Antennas Navassa 5:
> <https://jkantennas.com/jk-navassa-5.html>
>
> Both have boom lengths of 12 feet or less, cover 20 - 10 meters and
> have optional 6 meter add-ons. Either should significantly out
> perform the hex beams and - since they are aluminum antennas that do
> not use UV sensitive fiberglass, kevlar and dacron components - should
> significantly outlast the hexbeam with significantly less maintenance.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 5/20/2017 11:32 AM, Terry Brown wrote:
>> I really appreciate all the comments. I do have a follow up
>> question:
>>
>> An aluminum beam can be left up for years. I was reading one review
>> of a particular hex beam and the poster said that after 4 years, the
>> cords holding the beam together had become brittle and started to
>> fail from UV exposure and the main support members had deteriorated
>> for same reason.
>>
>> These beams are not cheap, I don't want to be taking the beam down
>> and replacing main structural components every 5 yrs.
>>
>> Can anyone with a hex beam comment on this?
>>
>> Thanks, Terry
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> .
>

Igor Sokolov-2

Re: Beam antenna question

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

21.05.2017 1:28, Joe Subich, W4TV пишет:

>
>
>
> Neither the XR5 nor the Navassa 5 has 11 elements *or* capacity hats.
> The XR5 is a 9-element antenna and the Navassa 5 has 10 elements as
> documented in the two links I provided.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>

Here is what can be found on the page of Innovantennas " The XR5, comes
with a capacity loaded 20m element Option (XR6-TC which reduces the
longest element from 11.6m to 8.9m) and reduced turning radius too!"
It just clever marketing. The first 2 pictures on that page are probably
of the original XR5 (not the reduced size XR5-T). The 3rd picture is the
actual XR5-T and capacity hats are pretty visible.

73, Igor UA9CDC
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Igor Sokolov-2

Re: Beam antenna question

Please disregard my message below. XR5-T with cap hats is called XR6.
And Joe is talking about XR5-T.

I apologize for my mistake.

73, Igor UA9CDC

21.05.2017 9:27, Igor Sokolov пишет:

>
>
> 21.05.2017 1:28, Joe Subich, W4TV пишет:
>>
>>
>>
>> Neither the XR5 nor the Navassa 5 has 11 elements *or* capacity hats.
>> The XR5 is a 9-element antenna and the Navassa 5 has 10 elements as
>> documented in the two links I provided.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>
> Here is what can be found on the page of Innovantennas " The XR5,
> comes with a capacity loaded 20m element Option (XR6-TC which reduces
> the longest element from 11.6m to 8.9m) and reduced turning radius too!"
> It just clever marketing. The first 2 pictures on that page are
> probably of the original XR5 (not the reduced size XR5-T). The 3rd
> picture is the actual XR5-T and capacity hats are pretty visible.
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC