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Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

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Lloyd Lachow-2

Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

Dan, KB6NU, just brought the Begali contacts thread from this past
March to my attention, and I hope it's not too late to weigh in:

I've had all of the Begali keys, and helped a bunch of others with
theirs. When we got them, the gap had to be changed often, close one
day, not so close the next. I had a conversation with Bob Crane (W8SX,
not Col. Hogan,) who learned me that the contacts should be slightly
convex and as smooth as possible, to minimize the effects of
atmospheric changes on the contact characteristics. He also provided
me with a set of a few different grades of fine, abrasive paper, to
use on the contacts.

I've treated about 10-12 keys with this method, and never seen it not
dramatically improve the paddle's performance. The entire process
takes about 15-20 minutes, if you take your time. My keys can be set
quite close now, and do not need further adjustment.

These keys all had the old-style alloy contacts, which were relatively
flat and rough. I haven't heard of this problem occurring with the
new, gold-plated contacts, though.

LL/K3ESE
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n3drk

Re: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

<I've had all of the Begali keys, and helped a bunch of others with
<theirs. When we got them, the gap had to be changed often, close one
<day, not so close the next. I had a conversation with Bob Crane (W8SX,
<not Col. Hogan,) who learned me that the contacts should be slightly

It is not "learned me". It is TAUGHT me. Learn English.

john-n3drk

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Lloyd Lachow-2

Re: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

In reply to this post by Lloyd Lachow-2

There were a few inquiries about what I did to improve the Begali
contacts, so I thought I'd answer here, for any that are interested:

I've used several different abrasive paper grit grades
...400-600-800-1000, use about three of these. Take off the contact
post, being very, very, very careful to preserve the spring and TINY
ball that bears against the threads for tension.

Then, start with the 400 or 600, with a piece over the ball of a
finger, and work on smoothing and convexifying [not an actual word]
the contact...it doesn't take too long. How to make it convex as you
go? You sort of "think" convex, which, I guess, translates to applying
a bit more effort around the edges than in the center, and allowing
the contact to press into the sheet of paper a bit as you work.

Change grades of paper until you get to the finest. Check your work
with a 10X loupe as you go, if you have one on hand. Careful
observation reveals when the effect of each grade seems done - when
rubbing stops changing the appearance of the contact.

Working on the contact on the fixed side is a bit different, as it's
wider, and has a spiral land on it. You will be able to smooth and
widen the land, and perhaps create a bit of convexity.

Before use, and periodically, pull a piece of paper through the
almost-tightened-down contacts to remove any specks or oxidation, and
Bob's your uncle.

LL/K3ESE
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David A. Belsley

Re: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

In reply to this post by n3drk

A tenth-drop of Deoxit on the contacts will produce the same effect
with no abrasion at all.

best wishes,

dave belsley, w1euy

On May 24, 2006, at 9:37 AM, n3drk wrote:

> <I've had all of the Begali keys, and helped a bunch of others with
> <theirs. When we got them, the gap had to be changed often, close one
> <day, not so close the next. I had a conversation with Bob Crane
> (W8SX,
> <not Col. Hogan,) who learned me that the contacts should be slightly
>
> It is not "learned me". It is TAUGHT me. Learn English.
>
> john-n3drk
>
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David A. Belsley

Re: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

I put the stuff on my keys a couple of years ago and haven't had any
problems since. I think it will last indefinitely. I learned about
the stuff on this reflector, so I suspect there are those with even
longer experience who may want to chime in.

best wishes,

dave belsley, w1euy

On May 24, 2006, at 9:54 PM, Kenneth Moorman wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> How long will the Deoxit treatment last?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken, NU4I
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Belsley" <[hidden email]>
> To: "n3drk" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "elecraft" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...
>
>
>> A tenth-drop of Deoxit on the contacts will produce the same
>> effect with no abrasion at all.
>> best wishes,
>> dave belsley, w1euy
>> On

ROBERT CARROLL-4

RE: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

Dave-

I bought a Graciella at Dayton so am very interested in this thread. Are
you talking about Caig Deoxit or something else?

Bob W2WG

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David A. Belsley
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:21 PM
To: Kenneth Moorman
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

I put the stuff on my keys a couple of years ago and haven't had any
problems since. I think it will last indefinitely. I learned about
the stuff on this reflector, so I suspect there are those with even
longer experience who may want to chime in.

best wishes,

dave belsley, w1euy

On May 24, 2006, at 9:54 PM, Kenneth Moorman wrote:

David A. Belsley

Re: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

Yes. It's fantastic for virtually all contacts and pots.

dave belsley, w1euy

On May 24, 2006, at 10:28 PM, ROBERT CARROLL wrote:

> Dave-
>
> I bought a Graciella at Dayton so am very interested in this
> thread. Are
> you talking about Caig Deoxit or something else?
>
> Bob W2WG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David A.
> Belsley
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:21 PM
> To: Kenneth Moorman
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...
>
> I put the stuff on my keys a couple of years ago and haven't had any
> problems since. I think it will last indefinitely. I learned about
> the stuff on this reflector, so I suspect there are those with even
> longer experience who may want to chime in.
>
> best wishes,
>
> dave belsley, w1euy
>
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 9:54 PM, Kenneth Moorman wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> How long will the Deoxit treatment last?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ken, NU4I
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Belsley"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> To: "n3drk" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "elecraft" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...
>>
>>
>>> A tenth-drop of Deoxit on the contacts will produce the same
>>> effect with no abrasion at all.
>>> best wishes,
>>> dave belsley, w1euy
>>> On
>
> -------------------------------------
> david a. belsley
> professor of economics
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

Curt-17

RE: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

In reply to this post by ROBERT CARROLL-4

Any kind of metal reverts back to its original state over time heading towards its natural element. It's named with several different types of corrosion. It's why aluminum aircraft all corrode way faster then the flying public would want to know. It turns to a white power loosing its integrity on the way back to its roots from where it came.

If you treat a contact point it will not last forever, if it did aircraft mechanics would be out of work, most are anyway but thatâs another story.

Begali plates his keys better than most manufactures. This very topic tells me something went awry least this would never be necessary but once done, it's anything but finished but instead just the opposite.

k3ey

k2/100

Licensed aircraft mechanic and journeyman machinist looking to the day I can retire and play radio all day, maybe fish now and then too.

ROBERT CARROLL <[hidden email]> wrote: Dave-

I bought a Graciella at Dayton so am very interested in this thread. Are
you talking about Caig Deoxit or something else?

Bob W2WG

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David A. Belsley
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:21 PM
To: Kenneth Moorman
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

I put the stuff on my keys a couple of years ago and haven't had any
problems since. I think it will last indefinitely. I learned about
the stuff on this reflector, so I suspect there are those with even
longer experience who may want to chime in.

best wishes,

dave belsley, w1euy

On May 24, 2006, at 9:54 PM, Kenneth Moorman wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> How long will the Deoxit treatment last?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken, NU4I
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Belsley"
> To: "n3drk"
> Cc: "elecraft"
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...
>
>
>> A tenth-drop of Deoxit on the contacts will produce the same
>> effect with no abrasion at all.
>> best wishes,
>> dave belsley, w1euy
>> On

-------------------------------------
david a. belsley
professor of economics

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David A. Belsley

Re: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

In reply to this post by ROBERT CARROLL-4

Robert and Ken,
Deoxit comes in both a liquid and a spray. The liquid is more
concentrated and does a better job on easy to access pieces. The
spray is obviously nicer for getting into pots and the like.
Remember also, a very, very little bit of the stuff goes a long way.
There is absolutely no need to pile the stuff on -- a mere swipe is
more than enough. So, although it is relatively expensive, a small
amount will last a long time.

best wishes,

dave belsley, w1euy

On May 24, 2006, at 10:28 PM, ROBERT CARROLL wrote:

Vic K2VCO

Re: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

In reply to this post by David A. Belsley

David A. Belsley wrote:
> A tenth-drop of Deoxit on the contacts will produce the same effect with
> no abrasion at all.

Not with the Begali 'alloy' contacts it won't! I struggled with them
for some time, trying all kinds of things, including deoxit, without
solving the problem of funny contact resistance behavior. I wonder if
the reshaping/polishing is a permanent fix, too. I finally bit the $$
bullet and ordered replacement gold (plated?) contacts which work great.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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Ron D'Eau Claire-2

RE: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

In reply to this post by David A. Belsley

I'm one of those who has used DeOxit on some old keys - two "bugs" from the
1950's that see regular service on my operating desk.

I was having to constantly "buff" the contacts. I used bit of paper, drawing
it through the contacts while holding them closed several times. If I didn't
use a particular key for several days, it'd be needing a considerable
cleaning. Even when in constant use, I'd have to do a cleaning every week or
so. Keep in mind that the contact closure is far more critical on a bug than
it is on paddles. If the logic sees a contact closure when using a keyer,
it'll make a dot or dash of exactly the correct length. With a bug, that dot
or dash length is totally dependent upon the rig seeing a good, stable
contact closure for exactly the right length of time. If the contact is
dirty, the element will be truncated. The sending is often described as
"scratchy" with the carrier jumping on and off perhaps several times in the
length of one dash at 20 wpm as the keying circuit interprets the poor
contact is alternately an open or closed circuit. It really makes for nasty
sending.

One day I was launching into yet another cleaning and saw, right next to my
key, a little squeeze bottle of Caig DeOxit. So I put a small drop on the
contacts. The surface tension held it in place with the contacts open. A few
minutes later I tried the key. Perfect contact action. I did have to remove
the excess DeOxit from the dot contacts since the liquid interfered with the
smooth action of the pendulum that makes dots on a bug. So all that was left
was the very thin film of DeOxit that clung to the metal. It was more than
six months later that I noticed the contacts needing help. Before I had to
clean them ever few days. I now keep a little squeeze bottle of DeOxit at
the operating desk <G>.

Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David A. Belsley
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:48 PM
To: ROBERT CARROLL
Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

Yes. It's fantastic for virtually all contacts and pots.

dave belsley, w1euy

On May 24, 2006, at 10:28 PM, ROBERT CARROLL wrote:

> Dave-
>
> I bought a Graciella at Dayton so am very interested in this
> thread. Are
> you talking about Caig Deoxit or something else?
>
> Bob W2WG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David A.
> Belsley
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:21 PM
> To: Kenneth Moorman
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...
>
> I put the stuff on my keys a couple of years ago and haven't had any
> problems since. I think it will last indefinitely. I learned about
> the stuff on this reflector, so I suspect there are those with even
> longer experience who may want to chime in.
>
> best wishes,
>
> dave belsley, w1euy
>
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 9:54 PM, Kenneth Moorman wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> How long will the Deoxit treatment last?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ken, NU4I
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Belsley"
>> <[hidden email]>
>> To: "n3drk" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "elecraft" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...
>>
>>
>>> A tenth-drop of Deoxit on the contacts will produce the same effect
>>> with no abrasion at all. best wishes,
>>> dave belsley, w1euy
>>> On
>
> -------------------------------------
> david a. belsley
> professor of economics
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>

Alexandra Carter

Re: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

Interesting post on the DeOxit...... I just got a bug and was told,
"They're not as good as modern keyers, they truncate their dits". But
maybe some DeOxit and paper burnishing will change this. Thanks for
the info, 73 de Alex NS6Y

On May 24, 2006, at 9:11 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> I'm one of those who has used DeOxit on some old keys - two "bugs"
> from the
> 1950's that see regular service on my operating desk.
>
> I was having to constantly "buff" the contacts. I used bit of
> paper, drawing
> it through the contacts while holding them closed several times. If
> I didn't
> use a particular key for several days, it'd be needing a considerable
> cleaning. Even when in constant use, I'd have to do a cleaning
> every week or
> so. Keep in mind that the contact closure is far more critical on a
> bug than
> it is on paddles. If the logic sees a contact closure when using a
> keyer,
> it'll make a dot or dash of exactly the correct length. With a bug,
> that dot
> or dash length is totally dependent upon the rig seeing a good, stable
> contact closure for exactly the right length of time. If the
> contact is
> dirty, the element will be truncated. The sending is often
> described as
> "scratchy" with the carrier jumping on and off perhaps several
> times in the
> length of one dash at 20 wpm as the keying circuit interprets the poor
> contact is alternately an open or closed circuit. It really makes
> for nasty
> sending.
>
> One day I was launching into yet another cleaning and saw, right
> next to my
> key, a little squeeze bottle of Caig DeOxit. So I put a small drop
> on the
> contacts. The surface tension held it in place with the contacts
> open. A few
> minutes later I tried the key. Perfect contact action. I did have
> to remove
> the excess DeOxit from the dot contacts since the liquid interfered
> with the
> smooth action of the pendulum that makes dots on a bug. So all that
> was left
> was the very thin film of DeOxit that clung to the metal. It was
> more than
> six months later that I noticed the contacts needing help. Before I
> had to
> clean them ever few days. I now keep a little squeeze bottle of
> DeOxit at
> the operating desk <G>.
>
> Ron AC7AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David A.
> Belsley
> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:48 PM
> To: ROBERT CARROLL
> Cc: 'Elecraft Reflector'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...
>
>
> Yes. It's fantastic for virtually all contacts and pots.
>
> dave belsley, w1euy
>
>
> On May 24, 2006, at 10:28 PM, ROBERT CARROLL wrote:
>
>> Dave-
>>
>> I bought a Graciella at Dayton so am very interested in this
>> thread. Are
>> you talking about Caig Deoxit or something else?
>>
>> Bob W2WG
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of David A.
>> Belsley
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:21 PM
>> To: Kenneth Moorman
>> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...
>>
>> I put the stuff on my keys a couple of years ago and haven't had any
>> problems since. I think it will last indefinitely. I learned about
>> the stuff on this reflector, so I suspect there are those with even
>> longer experience who may want to chime in.
>>
>> best wishes,
>>
>> dave belsley, w1euy
>>
>>
>> On May 24, 2006, at 9:54 PM, Kenneth Moorman wrote:
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>> How long will the Deoxit treatment last?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ken, NU4I
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Belsley"
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> To: "n3drk" <[hidden email]>
>>> Cc: "elecraft" <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...
>>>
>>>
>>>> A tenth-drop of Deoxit on the contacts will produce the same effect
>>>> with no abrasion at all. best wishes,
>>>> dave belsley, w1euy
>>>> On
>>
>> -------------------------------------
>> david a. belsley
>> professor of economics
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
>>
>
> -------------------------------------
> david a. belsley
> professor of economics
>
> _______________________________________________
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Ron D'Eau Claire-2

RE: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

Of course, the bug must be properly adjusted. Whoever said they truncate
dits doesn't really know about bugs, matter how many years they've been
using them. Bugs are mechanically capable of virtually machine-perfect code.
The fact that they don't send machine perfect code is all in the operator.
It's just like the fact that no musical instrument is exactly on key or
played with perfect timing. If you want perfect music, let a computer and
synthesizer generate it. If you want perfect code, let a computer or keyer
logic generate it. I've no argument with those who do that. It's just not my
"cup of tea".

When adjusted right, a bug makes clean, consistent dits for at least as many
as the longest Morse character. When the operator wants to end the dits,
it's necessary to do so *after* the last dit is finished or it is possible
to truncate the last dit by releasing the lever or moving it to the dash
side too quickly. Doing that will jerk the pendulum over against the damper
and stop it whether it's in the middle of a dit or not.

The human factor is what makes bugs challenging and fun.

I'm not a metallurgist or a chemist so I can't offer a professional
judgment, but many ops have told me that the fact that modern rigs do not
run significant current through the contacts is a big part of the problem.
The theory is that while arcing is bad and should be avoided, significant
current during closure is helpful. It's supposed to help prevent the buildup
of material on the contacts that produces intermittent behavior.

Have fun with your bug!!

Ron AC7AC

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandra Carter [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:46 PM
To: Ron D'Eau Claire
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

Interesting post on the DeOxit...... I just got a bug and was told,
"They're not as good as modern keyers, they truncate their dits". But
maybe some DeOxit and paper burnishing will change this. Thanks for
the info, 73 de Alex NS6Y

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Ron-72

Re: Begali contacts - old thread reprise...

In reply to this post by Ron D'Eau Claire-2

The mentioning of buying gold plated contacts.
How about having the old contacts gold plated?
Seems to me it would bring down the price considerably.

Ron Pyle
kc0qxu
Hot Springs, SD
When being chased by a bear. You don't have to outrun the bear. You just
have to outrun the other guy.
Beware of kisses from Pit Bulls...They might have the flu...

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