Best Digital Program for the K3?
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Can any body recommend a couple of the best digital programs to work with the K3? I was looking for one that is compatible with PSK D and FSK D.
Thanks! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Best Digital Program for the K3?
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As far as I know there is only one program (apart from the terminal in the K3 Utility) that makes any use pf PSK D and FSK D at all and that is my program KComm. However it is really transmit only. You have to receive by reading the K3 display, because there isn't a good way to get the text into the program at the same time as using CAT commands. (There is a check box that disables CAT so you can receive the text in the program, but I did that just for curiosity's sake - it isn't recommended.)
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
Re: Best Digital Program for the K3?
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In reply to this post by Dean45
> Can any body recommend a couple of the best digital programs to work
> with the K3? I was looking for one that is compatible with PSK D and > FSK D. Any program that supports FSK on other radios will work with the K3 in FSK D mode, decoding RTTY using a sound card and keying the radio via pin 1 on the ACC connector. For Windows, the "gold standard" is MMTTY, either stand alone or in association with some other program. MMTTY also supports AFSK A. From an operational point of view, the K3's AFSK A is virtually indistinguishable from FSK D, i.e. the K3 has the same operating features in both modes. The only real difference is how the transmitter is modulated. There are a number of software programs that will only do AFSK RTTY and do not support FSK, so your choice of software choice will be wider if you add AFSK A to your set of options. PSK D is, frankly, just a curiosity at this time. There is basically no software for it, certainly no software that comes within miles of the capability of the sound card software that is used for PSK with other radios. The same comment applies to the K3's ability to encode and decode RTTY in FSK D mode and communicate text with the computer via the radio command port; at this stage this is no more than a curiosity, as there is no software that can make effective use of it. For everyday operation in PSK31 and most other digital modes, you need to use DATA A. DATA A is compatible with all standard PSK31 (and other digital-mode) software. There are many choices; which program works best for you depends on what user interface you are most comfortable with. 73, Rich VE3KI ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dean45
I like DM780. It comes as part of HRD. It works perfectly with the K3.
James K2QI On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Dean <[hidden email]> wrote: > Can any body recommend a couple of the best digital programs to work with > the K3? I was looking for one that is compatible with PSK D and FSK D. > > Thanks! > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Best Digital Program for the K3?
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> I like DM780. It comes as part of HRD. And does not, last time I checked, support either PSK_D or FSK_D (FSK). It is an audio only package. 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of K2QI > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:53 AM > To: Dean > Cc: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Best Digital Program for the K3? > > > I like DM780. It comes as part of HRD. It works perfectly > with the K3. > > James K2QI > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Dean <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Can any body recommend a couple of the best digital > programs to work > > with the K3? I was looking for one that is compatible with > PSK D and > > FSK D. > > > > Thanks! > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Best Digital Program for the K3?
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In reply to this post by Dean45
What would you like out of PSK D and FSK D? We could consider adding it to fldigi if there are advantages.
BTW, you didn't say what OS you were using, but fldigi runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux. Leigh/WA5ZNU |
Re: Best Digital Program for the K3?
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I don't know about the OP's requirements but to me the advantage of being able to use the FSK D mode would be the ability to run FSK without and interface.
Presently I am running both Fldgi and cocoaModem and they both work great in AFSK modes so I guess it's not a big deal to me. BTW, one of the reasons I run cocoaModem instead of Fldigi on RTTY is the ability to watch both the Main and Sub receivers on a waterfall and line up the next contact while waiting to finish another. Rick K6LE On 2/8/2010, at 9:09 , Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU wrote: > > What would you like out of PSK D and FSK D? We could consider adding it to > fldigi if there are advantages. > > BTW, you didn't say what OS you were using, but fldigi runs on Windows, Mac, > and Linux. > > Leigh/WA5ZNU > -- > View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Best-Digital-Program-for-the-K3-tp4534355p4535521.html > Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Best Digital Program for the K3?
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Thank you, Rick.
You can configure fldigi to use RS232 commands for TX and RX control, and the K3 has built-in transformer isolation so you don't need an interface to run, just two shielded audio cables with 3.5mm plugs and an RS232 9-pin straight-through cable. FSK D would also require the same RS232 cable. I'm surprised cocoaModem hasn't got RS232 rig control yet; it's pretty simple to implement for the K3. (You literally just send "TX;" and "RX;" ) Leigh/WA5ZNU On 02/08/2010 09:20 AM, Rick Prather [via Elecraft] wrote: I don't know about the OP's requirements but to me the advantage of being able to use the FSK D mode would be the ability to run FSK without and interface. |
Re: Best Digital Program for the K3?
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
At one time a couple of years ago, the next rework of DM780 was going to
include an integral implementation of the WSJT protocols -- at least the major ones (FSK441, JT6M, JT65[x], maybe WSPR). It never happened. Simon got turned on to SSTV implementation instead, and then to SDR stuff... He is supposedly back onto HDR/DM780 now, but I haven't heard anything lately about the WSJT project. Anybody have any news? Bill W5WVO -------------------------------------------------- From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:01 AM To: "'K2QI'" <[hidden email]>; "'Dean'" <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Best Digital Program for the K3? > >> I like DM780. It comes as part of HRD. > > And does not, last time I checked, support either PSK_D > or FSK_D (FSK). It is an audio only package. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [hidden email] >> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of K2QI >> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:53 AM >> To: Dean >> Cc: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Best Digital Program for the K3? >> >> >> I like DM780. It comes as part of HRD. It works perfectly >> with the K3. >> >> James K2QI >> >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Dean <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> > Can any body recommend a couple of the best digital >> programs to work >> > with the K3? I was looking for one that is compatible with >> PSK D and >> > FSK D. >> > >> > Thanks! >> > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Best Digital Program for the K3?
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In reply to this post by Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU
I'm not really sure what advantages there are to using PSK D or FSK D. Having to receive PSK by accurately tuning in a signal instead of clicking on a waterfall is not a usability improvement, and the sound card decoders do a better job of decoding weak PSK signals than the one in the K3. RTTY may be better - I haven't really tried it. Most people who have a computer connected to the radio have the use of a sound card, so the only reason for trying this would seem to be "because you can." If Elecraft provides a way to read the decoded text into the software at the same time as using CAT then I will support it in KComm. But I can't see that I would ever use it in preference to a sound card.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
Re: Best Digital Program for the K3?
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In reply to this post by Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU
Leigh,
I understand about RS232 for keying the rig and that is a nice feature of Fldigi, however, that doesn't accomplish direct FSK keying which takes us back to the OP's original desire (I think) As far as cocoaModem using RS232 rig control, I wouldn't really want it to since I have either MLDX or RUMlog connected to my radio and of course can have only one program using the RS232 port. The difference, of course, with Fldigi is it's also the logger but I don't use it as such. Rick K6LE On 2/8/2010, at 9:38 , Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU wrote: > > Thank you, Rick. > > You can configure fldigi to use RS232 commands for TX and RX control, > and the K3 has built-in transformer isolation so you don't need an > interface to run, just two shielded audio cables with 3.5mm plugs and an > RS232 9-pin straight-through cable. FSK D would also require the same > RS232 cable. > > I'm surprised cocoaModem hasn't got RS232 rig control yet; it's pretty > simple to implement for the K3. (You literally just send "TX;" and "RX;" ) > > Leigh/WA5ZNU > > On 02/08/2010 09:20 AM, Rick Prather [via Elecraft] wrote: >> I don't know about the OP's requirements but to me the advantage of >> being able to use the FSK D mode would be the ability to run FSK >> without and interface. >> >> Presently I am running both Fldgi and cocoaModem and they both work >> great in AFSK modes so I guess it's not a big deal to me. >> >> BTW, one of the reasons I run cocoaModem instead of Fldigi on RTTY is >> the ability to watch both the Main and Sub receivers on a waterfall >> and line up the next contact while waiting to finish another. >> >> >> Rick >> K6LE ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Rick Prather
I had recently made some measurements of RTTY and PSK31 which shows
that sound card driven programs using DATA-A can put out a cleaner transmitted signal than the K3's internal generators in the PSK-D and FSK-D modes. Unlike many other rigs, the K3 is very forgiving about the precise Mic Gain/audio levels. I'd found that with Mic Gain set to 6, audio levels anywhere between 250 mV RMS and 350 mV RMS work equally well, with the RF output tracking the PWR knob setting and not needing to readjust the audio levels. With many rigs, you need to adjust the RF output through the amount of audio drive, just so you can keep the ALC turned off. With the "ease of use," together with lower IMD, there are few reasons to use PSK-D (or FSK-D, unless you are out in the boonies with just a Morse paddle) on the K3. I've just spent a little time this morning and compiled the results into a web page here: http://homepage.mac.com/chen/Technical/K3/Digital/digital.html The write up includes cases where I found a power creep (with an attendant ALC creep and worsening IMD numbers from PSK31). It appears that the power creep could be the result of insufficient audio drive. With the "good" fixed audio level mentioned above, I see no power creep at various RF power settings. The measurements also show that the K3's transmit IMD is low enough that AFSK RTTY waveshaping by software can help reduce the keying sidebands when compared to a rig (K3 or otherwise) that uses FSK. The bottom line (if you want to skip the nitty gritty details in the above web page) is that the K3's PA at 50 watts average PSK31 power is capable of better than -35 dBc IMD for close spaced carrier pairs. By carefully tuning the audio drive, I can get -37 dBc, so I assume the PA itself is good to at least that. The -35 dBc number is probably limited by something else in the chain. 73 Chen, W7AY ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
Thanks for the clarification Joe. I should have read the OP's request
better. James K2QI On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:01 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > I like DM780. It comes as part of HRD. > > And does not, last time I checked, support either PSK_D > or FSK_D (FSK). It is an audio only package. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of K2QI > > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:53 AM > > To: Dean > > Cc: [hidden email] > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Best Digital Program for the K3? > > > > > > I like DM780. It comes as part of HRD. It works perfectly > > with the K3. > > > > James K2QI > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Dean <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > Can any body recommend a couple of the best digital > > programs to work > > > with the K3? I was looking for one that is compatible with > > PSK D and > > > FSK D. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Re: Best Digital Program for the K3?
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In reply to this post by Kok Chen
By 50 watts average PSK power do you mean PWR set to 50, or PWR set to 100 or whatever gives an average 50W out? Don't know how accurate my off-air IMD Meter is compared to the measurements you did, but I see -28dB IMD with PWR at 100W which I think is pretty acceptable not that I personally would run PSK31 at that power setting. The K3 seems just about idiot proof in digi modes. I often say the K3 is the ideal radio for operating digital modes. If there is another rig that does them even better I'd like to know what it is.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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On Feb 8, 2010, at 3:27 PM, Julian, G4ILO wrote: > By 50 watts average PSK power do you mean PWR set to 50, or PWR set to 100 > or whatever gives an average 50W out? 50 W with PWR knob, and measured to be close to 50W on an external averaging wattmeter with an idling Varicode on BPSK31 This means that the peaks of the BPSK31 signal is probably hitting somewhere near 100W instantaneous power. The same will be true with QPSK31 when idling, but QPSK31 puts out a little more average power than BPSK31 when actively sending text (the two extra phase angles in the QPSK31 constellation don't dip all the way to zero power when there is a phase transition). Because of the envelope waveshaping, many novices are confused when they see power flickering as they type -- because power *is* indeed changing depending on the character that is being transmitted :-). The Idle Varicode, where the envelope of every symbol (i.e., every bit in BPSK and every dibit in QPSK) goes through zero, and has the lowest average power for BPSK31. > The K3 seems just about idiot proof in digi modes. I often say the K3 is the > ideal radio for operating digital modes. Not completely bug free, yet. The K3's CAT command "KY" command interface still has problems, so you can't do FSK directly through CAT, for example. 73 Chen, W7AY ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: Best Digital Program for the K3?
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Chen,
With the ease of set up and use of AFSK on the K3 and with your tests showing how clean it can be, together with the terrific functionality of using both receivers with cocoaModem, I have decided that I am not going to bother getting FSK working either with direct keying or via FSK D mode. I can't imagine running an RTTY contest anymore without using your dual wideband RTTY mode. Thanks, Rick K6LE On 2/8/2010, at 4:18 , Kok Chen wrote: >>Snip>> > > Not completely bug free, yet. The K3's CAT command "KY" command interface still has problems, so you can't do FSK directly through CAT, for example. > > 73 > Chen, W7AY ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU
Coming from CW, and being fairly new to other digital modes, I liked the option with PSK D to occasionaly use the paddle instead of the keyboard. Also, because I would sometimes use the radio stand alone for PSK D/FSK D, it made sence to get used to how it works while I have the computer on and can see the waterfall etc. The posts here so far have educated me a lot. Thanks for your responses! "What would you like out of PSK D and FSK D? We could consider adding it to fldigi if there are advantages. BTW, you didn't say what OS you were using, but fldigi runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux. Leigh/WA5ZNU " |
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