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Big Knob Fail

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Hank Garretson

Big Knob Fail

My buddy Kurt, W6PH, who is not on the list, has a K3S. Recently the VFO
knob has been intermittent and it is now total fail. Does not change
frequency. When he goes to CONFIG or MENU, VFO knob does not change
anything. All other knobs and buttons work including VFO B.

Kurt called Elecraft support and was directed to voice mail.

Any ideas?

73,

Hank, W6SX
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Don Wilhelm

Re: Big Knob Fail

Hank,

He should email [hidden email] for the most certain response.
In the meantime, the encoders for VFO A and VFO B are the same - so he
should swap them to see if the problem follows the encoder. If it does,
then a new encoder will fix it. If not, it is more involved and will
require additional assistance from Elecraft support.

If he does not know how to remove the Front Panel assembly and swap the
encoders, he should download the assembly manual to see how it goes
together and then reverse the procedure.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/17/2021 4:08 PM, Hank Garretson wrote:

> My buddy Kurt, W6PH, who is not on the list, has a K3S. Recently the VFO
> knob has been intermittent and it is now total fail. Does not change
> frequency. When he goes to CONFIG or MENU, VFO knob does not change
> anything. All other knobs and buttons work including VFO B.
>
> Kurt called Elecraft support and was directed to voice mail.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> 73,
>
> Hank, W6SX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>

NJ8M

Re: Big Knob Fail

In reply to this post by Hank Garretson

One of the problems with the knobs is that sometimes, people change the
injected molded knob out for a HEAVY machined knob. The mechanism inside
the radio is not built for this type of installation. A rapid spin with the
angular momentum and torque of the heavy knob will wear out the device.
This will require taking the front panel off and replacing the component.
This has been discussed many times in the past on this forum. It sounds
like his main frequency control device is worn out/damaged and will need
replacement. I would continue to call Elecraft until I get through to a
technician and most likely have it sent in and fixed.

I wish your friend well in getting his rig fixed. Withdrawal is a bummer.

73, Morgan NJ8M

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 3:10 PM Hank Garretson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hank Garretson

Re: Big Knob Fail

In reply to this post by Hank Garretson

Kurt did talk with Elecraft support. He has replacement encoder on order.

Thank you all.

73,

Hank, W6SX
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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: Big Knob Fail

In reply to this post by NJ8M

I fully agree. I would NOT put a weighted knob on any electronic tuning
mechanism, unless of course it was designed for it.

Lots of Collins guys like to install those weighted tuning * knobs on their
S-Lines, which were NOT made to take excessive extra wear caused by the very
heavy knob.

73, Charlie k3ICH

* The "weighted" Collins knob actually has the outer skirt replaced with one
made of solid brass which is painted satin black to match the standard
Bakelite knobs.
It was never intended to be used on the regular 200 kHz tuning via pinch
roller, S-Line but was designed to smooth-out the klunky tuning in their
51S-1 receiver.
It does great for that.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Morgan Bailey
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 4:38 PM
To: Hank Garretson <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Big Knob Fail

One of the problems with the knobs is that sometimes, people change the
injected molded knob out for a HEAVY machined knob. The mechanism inside the
radio is not built for this type of installation. A rapid spin with the
angular momentum and torque of the heavy knob will wear out the device.
This will require taking the front panel off and replacing the component.
This has been discussed many times in the past on this forum. It sounds like
his main frequency control device is worn out/damaged and will need
replacement. I would continue to call Elecraft until I get through to a
technician and most likely have it sent in and fixed.

I wish your friend well in getting his rig fixed. Withdrawal is a bummer.

73, Morgan NJ8M

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 3:10 PM Hank Garretson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My buddy Kurt, W6PH, who is not on the list, has a K3S. Recently the
> VFO knob has been intermittent and it is now total fail. Does not
> change frequency. When he goes to CONFIG or MENU, VFO knob does not
> change anything. All other knobs and buttons work including VFO B.
>
> Kurt called Elecraft support and was directed to voice mail.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> 73,
>
> Hank, W6SX
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]
>

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Jim Rhodes-2

Re: Big Knob Fail

Wayne and Eric have stated numerous times here on the reflector that
weighted knobs should not be an issue on the encoders, I have been using
them for years (although not heavily or even daily due to travel for work)
and have never had an issue,

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 4:14 PM Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I fully agree. I would NOT put a weighted knob on any electronic tuning
> mechanism, unless of course it was designed for it.
>
> Lots of Collins guys like to install those weighted tuning * knobs on their
> S-Lines, which were NOT made to take excessive extra wear caused by the
> very
> heavy knob.
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
> * The "weighted" Collins knob actually has the outer skirt replaced with
> one
> made of solid brass which is painted satin black to match the standard
> Bakelite knobs.
> It was never intended to be used on the regular 200 kHz tuning via pinch
> roller, S-Line but was designed to smooth-out the klunky tuning in their
> 51S-1 receiver.
> It does great for that.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> On
> Behalf Of Morgan Bailey
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 4:38 PM
> To: Hank Garretson <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Big Knob Fail
>
> One of the problems with the knobs is that sometimes, people change the
> injected molded knob out for a HEAVY machined knob. The mechanism inside
> the
> radio is not built for this type of installation. A rapid spin with the
> angular momentum and torque of the heavy knob will wear out the device.
> This will require taking the front panel off and replacing the component.
> This has been discussed many times in the past on this forum. It sounds
> like
> his main frequency control device is worn out/damaged and will need
> replacement. I would continue to call Elecraft until I get through to a
> technician and most likely have it sent in and fixed.
>
> I wish your friend well in getting his rig fixed. Withdrawal is a bummer.
>
> 73, Morgan NJ8M
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 3:10 PM Hank Garretson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > My buddy Kurt, W6PH, who is not on the list, has a K3S. Recently the
> > VFO knob has been intermittent and it is now total fail. Does not
> > change frequency. When he goes to CONFIG or MENU, VFO knob does not
> > change anything. All other knobs and buttons work including VFO B.
> >
> > Kurt called Elecraft support and was directed to voice mail.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Hank, W6SX
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> > [hidden email]
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message
> delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--
Jim K0XU
[hidden email]
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NK7Z

Re: Big Knob Fail

I think the issue is in shipping... When, (not if), the shipper drops
your K3 to the ground from 4 or 5 feet up, and the rig stops with a 20G
or 30G, (or more), pulse at end to motion, the weighted knob then
becomes a rather good looking hammer hitting the encoder shaft... Never
a good idea...

If someone has a definitive answer to this, I would love to see it...

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 2/17/21 3:32 PM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

> Wayne and Eric have stated numerous times here on the reflector that
> weighted knobs should not be an issue on the encoders, I have been using
> them for years (although not heavily or even daily due to travel for work)
> and have never had an issue,
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 4:14 PM Charlie T <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I fully agree. I would NOT put a weighted knob on any electronic tuning
>> mechanism, unless of course it was designed for it.
>>
>> Lots of Collins guys like to install those weighted tuning * knobs on their
>> S-Lines, which were NOT made to take excessive extra wear caused by the
>> very
>> heavy knob.
>>
>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>>
>> * The "weighted" Collins knob actually has the outer skirt replaced with
>> one
>> made of solid brass which is painted satin black to match the standard
>> Bakelite knobs.
>> It was never intended to be used on the regular 200 kHz tuning via pinch
>> roller, S-Line but was designed to smooth-out the klunky tuning in their
>> 51S-1 receiver.
>> It does great for that.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>> On
>> Behalf Of Morgan Bailey
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 4:38 PM
>> To: Hank Garretson <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Big Knob Fail
>>
>> One of the problems with the knobs is that sometimes, people change the
>> injected molded knob out for a HEAVY machined knob. The mechanism inside
>> the
>> radio is not built for this type of installation. A rapid spin with the
>> angular momentum and torque of the heavy knob will wear out the device.
>> This will require taking the front panel off and replacing the component.
>> This has been discussed many times in the past on this forum. It sounds
>> like
>> his main frequency control device is worn out/damaged and will need
>> replacement. I would continue to call Elecraft until I get through to a
>> technician and most likely have it sent in and fixed.
>>
>> I wish your friend well in getting his rig fixed. Withdrawal is a bummer.
>>
>> 73, Morgan NJ8M
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 3:10 PM Hank Garretson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> My buddy Kurt, W6PH, who is not on the list, has a K3S. Recently the
>>> VFO knob has been intermittent and it is now total fail. Does not
>>> change frequency. When he goes to CONFIG or MENU, VFO knob does not
>>> change anything. All other knobs and buttons work including VFO B.
>>>
>>> Kurt called Elecraft support and was directed to voice mail.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> Hank, W6SX
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>>> [hidden email]
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message
>> delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>

KENT TRIMBLE

Re: Big Knob Fail

In reply to this post by NJ8M

K3 serial number 21 (kit no. 1) has carried the 73cnc weighted knobs on both the main and sub VFOs for more than 13 years of nearly nightly use. It has been the primary CW rig for 11 Field Days, numerous special events, and upwards of a dozen Boy Scout outings. The knobs have been twirled by club members with heavy fists and kids with youthful exuberance. Yet they continue to provide the smooth and silky feel characteristic of those weighted knobs used in high end receivers for nearly 100 years.

If the tuning shafts and encoders are in imminent danger of “angular momentum and torque” leading to premature wear, my K3 didn’t get the memo.

Such concerns about non-Elecraft accessories are usually conjectural in my opinion, if not plain nonsense.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

> On Feb 17, 2021, at 3:37 PM, someone wrote:
>
> One of the problems with the knobs is that sometimes people change out the stock injected molded knob for a HEAVY machined knob. The mechanism inside the radio is not built for this type of installation. A rapid spin with the angular momentum and torque of the heavy knob will wear out the device. This will require taking the front panel off and replacing the component.

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exbpi

Re: Big Knob Fail

Kent,

I completely agree...I have had the CNC knobs on my K3 since purchased with no issue and tuning is a delight. I have the same knobs on all my S-Line equipment + my 75A4 and a custom knob made for my Racal RA6790GM which has the smoothest tuning of any receiver I have owned (and I've had quite a few).

73 Mike
K7PI

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of K9ZTV
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 5:45 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Big Knob Fail

K3 serial number 21 (kit no. 1) has carried the 73cnc weighted knobs on both the main and sub VFOs for more than 13 years of nearly nightly use. It has been the primary CW rig for 11 Field Days, numerous special events, and upwards of a dozen Boy Scout outings. The knobs have been twirled by club members with heavy fists and kids with youthful exuberance. Yet they continue to provide the smooth and silky feel characteristic of those weighted knobs used in high end receivers for nearly 100 years.

If the tuning shafts and encoders are in imminent danger of “angular momentum and torque” leading to premature wear, my K3 didn’t get the memo.

Such concerns about non-Elecraft accessories are usually conjectural in my opinion, if not plain nonsense.

73,

Kent K9ZTV

> On Feb 17, 2021, at 3:37 PM, someone wrote:
>
> One of the problems with the knobs is that sometimes people change out the stock injected molded knob for a HEAVY machined knob. The mechanism inside the radio is not built for this type of installation. A rapid spin with the angular momentum and torque of the heavy knob will wear out the device. This will require taking the front panel off and replacing the component.

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Bill Steffey NY9H

Re: Big Knob Fail

In reply to this post by NK7Z

a VERY BIG no-no is to ship an ICOM 7800 without removing the very nice
weighted main VFO knob.

IT IS A WELL KNOWN DISASTER TO HAPPEN. It does not tear up the
bearing      IT BENDS THE SHAFT !!!! OMG.

  And since the 7800 weighs 80 LBS in the double box, it costs over 100$
to ship one way & 200 for insurance.

Never had THAT problem, just twice DSP board failure due to a 5V
"""surge"" ....even though the rig on was on a true sine wave
Uninterruptible EATON 2500VA supply. The first time my HRIA insurance
paid almost $1000 for the repair. The second time ICOM management
agreed maybe the ""problem" was never fixed the first time.

Elecraft k3 WEIGHS nothing...SHIPS EASILY.     And does not exhibit issues.

bill ny9h/3

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Ed K1EP

Re: Big Knob Fail

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

Even though your s/n is 21, it was not the first K3 kit shipped. I have the
first K3 kit shipped, as I assembled the very first one, outside of the
beta testers. I also have the original knob and encoder.

Ed K1EP s/n 66

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 20:46 K9ZTV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> K3 serial number 21 (kit no. 1) has carried the 73cnc weighted knobs on
> both the main and sub VFOs for more than 13 years of nearly nightly use.
> It has been the primary CW rig for 11 Field Days, numerous special events,
> and upwards of a dozen Boy Scout outings. The knobs have been twirled by
> club members with heavy fists and kids with youthful exuberance. Yet they
> continue to provide the smooth and silky feel characteristic of those
> weighted knobs used in high end receivers for nearly 100 years.
>
> If the tuning shafts and encoders are in imminent danger of “angular
> momentum and torque” leading to premature wear, my K3 didn’t get the memo.
>
> Such concerns about non-Elecraft accessories are usually conjectural in my
> opinion, if not plain nonsense.
>
> 73,
>
> Kent K9ZTV
>
>
>
> > On Feb 17, 2021, at 3:37 PM, someone wrote:
> >
> > One of the problems with the knobs is that sometimes people change out
> the stock injected molded knob for a HEAVY machined knob. The mechanism
> inside the radio is not built for this type of installation. A rapid spin
> with the angular momentum and torque of the heavy knob will wear out the
> device. This will require taking the front panel off and replacing the
> component.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]