Big box K3
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So stop making noise just to be heard. What Im asking for would affect you anti-changer zero. And we all got it a few post back Phil... you dont like change.... fine. Then if you dont have any thing constructive to add, don't play. Some of us do want something new. Something more. The K3 is GREAT! But even the Queen of England could stand to refine herself a bit more. The beauty of what Im asking for in not the end of the K3. Its just enhancement. Why do some people fly off the handle of something so small. Take your toys and go home. Dont spoil our party on the idea of a larger K3(K3A). Phil Hystad* phystad at mac.com <elecraft%40mailman.qth.net?Subject=Re:%20%5BElecraft%5D%20Big%20box%20K3&In-Reply-To=%3C86842DC2-2AE9-4C26-95C1-77ED5E41E630%40mac.com%3E> *Mon Aug 9 21:13:21 EDT 2010* - Previous message: [Elecraft] Big Box K-3<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/134407.html> - *Messages sorted by:* [ date ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/date.html#134408> [ thread ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/thread.html#134408> [ subject ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/subject.html#134408> [ author ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/author.html#134408> ------------------------------ It seems to be that a bigger K3 is a different radio then the K3 and should be called something different. No, not even K3A or whatever. I probably would not buy one though. I like my K3 as it is. If there is some great new technology that is embraced by Elecraft that does not fit the K3, then maybe it is time for a K4. If that is in a bigger box, then so be it if that is needed. But, to have a bigger box merely to use space is not my obsession. I think the IC-7800 and the FT-9000 whatever are in very big boxes. When I first saw the FT-9000 my first thought was "No, I don't want that". I am surprised Eric hasn't put the kibosh to this thread -- maybe they are listening to the comments. If you are, I vote for status quo. PEH -- Nicholas W. Farrar Network Engineer / IT Coordinator Brown Folse PACS [hidden email] Office 318-595-0451 Mobile 318-381-9863 Fax 866-248-6128 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I don't really have a horse in this race because I am personally very happy
with my K3 (#693) and, knowing that Wayne's Engineering degree included emphasis on Engineering Ergonomics, I am satisfied that he has given us the best possible radio in the form factor that is most popular to most people who represent his target market. However, while there is nothing wrong with dreaming and asking for changes, I wonder how many of the Big Box k3 requesters have considered the magnitude of the effort required on Elecraft's part to deliver such a thing. First, the job would not be as trivial as simply re-packaging the insides in a bigger box. It would involve the design and testing of a new RF board and front panel in order to remove controls and displays to a different front panel (which would also have to be designed and tested) and to remove ports to a different back panel. Internal cable routing, shielding, and structural support would have to be altered with consequent testing as well. Cramming the P3, KPA500, and a power supply inside would only complicate things further. Also, because functions would have to be removed from menus and associated with front panel hardware, the firmware would have to be rewritten, which would require two versions to be maintained in parallel and alpha/beta tested for each release to keep them in sync. Elecraft is a small company, and most of the design and programming is done by only a couple of people whose jobs would grow enormously, and which would deprive other, more critical projects of their time and effort. Second, how much would the Big Box people be willing to pay for the upgrade, and how many could Elecraft expect to sell? My guess is that in order to amortize the time and materials to develop such an upgrade given the considerations above, each unit could cost as much as the K3 itself (possibly more depending on expected sales volume), which could bring it into the price range of some of the "big iron" with which it favorably competes, both cost- and feature-wise. I suspect that there would not be many takers at those prices. I'm sorry that some of the current owners of K3s seem to be disappointed in it. Every engineering project is a trade-off, and I think that Wayne and Eric represent the Burt Rutans of the radio world. Given that, I don't think that even Burt Rutan would consider adapting a VariEze (K2) or a Starship (K3) into an AirBus form factor, and I doubt that very many customers would buy one. 73 de Steve, NN0B -----Original Message----- From: Nicholas Farrar [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 7:32 PM To: elecraft Subject: [Elecraft] Big box K3 * So stop making noise just to be heard. What Im asking for would affect you anti-changer zero. And we all got it a few post back Phil... you dont like change.... fine. Then if you dont have any thing constructive to add, don't play. Some of us do want something new. Something more. The K3 is GREAT! But even the Queen of England could stand to refine herself a bit more. The beauty of what Im asking for in not the end of the K3. Its just enhancement. Why do some people fly off the handle of something so small. Take your toys and go home. Dont spoil our party on the idea of a larger K3(K3A). Phil Hystad* phystad at mac.com <elecraft%40mailman.qth.net?Subject=Re:%20%5BElecraft%5D%20Big%20box%20K3&In -Reply-To=%3C86842DC2-2AE9-4C26-95C1-77ED5E41E630%40mac.com%3E> *Mon Aug 9 21:13:21 EDT 2010* - Previous message: [Elecraft] Big Box K-3<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/134407.html> - *Messages sorted by:* [ date ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/date.html#134408> [ thread ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/thread.html#134408> [ subject ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/subject.html#134408> [ author ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/author.html#134408> ------------------------------ It seems to be that a bigger K3 is a different radio then the K3 and should be called something different. No, not even K3A or whatever. I probably would not buy one though. I like my K3 as it is. If there is some great new technology that is embraced by Elecraft that does not fit the K3, then maybe it is time for a K4. If that is in a bigger box, then so be it if that is needed. But, to have a bigger box merely to use space is not my obsession. I think the IC-7800 and the FT-9000 whatever are in very big boxes. When I first saw the FT-9000 my first thought was "No, I don't want that". I am surprised Eric hasn't put the kibosh to this thread -- maybe they are listening to the comments. If you are, I vote for status quo. PEH -- Nicholas W. Farrar Network Engineer / IT Coordinator Brown Folse PACS [hidden email] Office 318-595-0451 Mobile 318-381-9863 Fax 866-248-6128 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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> Given that, I don't
> think that even Burt Rutan would consider adapting a VariEze (K2) or a > Starship (K3) into an AirBus form factor ... Seems like a bad choice for an example. Burt did create the Long-EZ, a larger version of the VariEze. Mark On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Steve Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote: > I don't really have a horse in this race because I am personally very happy > with my K3 (#693) and, knowing that Wayne's Engineering degree included > emphasis on Engineering Ergonomics, I am satisfied that he has given us the > best possible radio in the form factor that is most popular to most people > who represent his target market. > > However, while there is nothing wrong with dreaming and asking for changes, > I wonder how many of the Big Box k3 requesters have considered the magnitude > of the effort required on Elecraft's part to deliver such a thing. > > First, the job would not be as trivial as simply re-packaging the insides in > a bigger box. It would involve the design and testing of a new RF board and > front panel in order to remove controls and displays to a different front > panel (which would also have to be designed and tested) and to remove ports > to a different back panel. Internal cable routing, shielding, and structural > support would have to be altered with consequent testing as well. Cramming > the P3, KPA500, and a power supply inside would only complicate things > further. Also, because functions would have to be removed from menus and > associated with front panel hardware, the firmware would have to be > rewritten, which would require two versions to be maintained in parallel and > alpha/beta tested for each release to keep them in sync. Elecraft is a > small company, and most of the design and programming is done by only a > couple of people whose jobs would grow enormously, and which would deprive > other, more critical projects of their time and effort. > > Second, how much would the Big Box people be willing to pay for the upgrade, > and how many could Elecraft expect to sell? My guess is that in order to > amortize the time and materials to develop such an upgrade given the > considerations above, each unit could cost as much as the K3 itself > (possibly more depending on expected sales volume), which could bring it > into the price range of some of the "big iron" with which it favorably > competes, both cost- and feature-wise. I suspect that there would not be > many takers at those prices. > > I'm sorry that some of the current owners of K3s seem to be disappointed in > it. Every engineering project is a trade-off, and I think that Wayne and > Eric represent the Burt Rutans of the radio world. Given that, I don't > think that even Burt Rutan would consider adapting a VariEze (K2) or a > Starship (K3) into an AirBus form factor, and I doubt that very many > customers would buy one. > > > 73 de Steve, NN0B > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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True, but it's a different airplane--not a VariEze with a larger fuselage
wrapped around it. 73 de nn0b, Steve -----Original Message----- From: Mark Bayern [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 12:37 PM To: Steve Harvey Cc: elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Big box K3 > Given that, I don't > think that even Burt Rutan would consider adapting a VariEze (K2) or a > Starship (K3) into an AirBus form factor ... Seems like a bad choice for an example. Burt did create the Long-EZ, a larger version of the VariEze. Mark On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Steve Harvey <[hidden email]> wrote: > I don't really have a horse in this race because I am personally very happy > with my K3 (#693) and, knowing that Wayne's Engineering degree included > emphasis on Engineering Ergonomics, I am satisfied that he has given us the > best possible radio in the form factor that is most popular to most people > who represent his target market. > > However, while there is nothing wrong with dreaming and asking for changes, > I wonder how many of the Big Box k3 requesters have considered the magnitude > of the effort required on Elecraft's part to deliver such a thing. > > First, the job would not be as trivial as simply re-packaging the insides in > a bigger box. It would involve the design and testing of a new RF board and > front panel in order to remove controls and displays to a different front > panel (which would also have to be designed and tested) and to remove ports > to a different back panel. Internal cable routing, shielding, and structural > support would have to be altered with consequent testing as well. Cramming > the P3, KPA500, and a power supply inside would only complicate things > further. Also, because functions would have to be removed from menus and > associated with front panel hardware, the firmware would have to be > rewritten, which would require two versions to be maintained in parallel and > alpha/beta tested for each release to keep them in sync. Elecraft is a > small company, and most of the design and programming is done by only a > couple of people whose jobs would grow enormously, and which would deprive > other, more critical projects of their time and effort. > > Second, how much would the Big Box people be willing to pay for the upgrade, > and how many could Elecraft expect to sell? My guess is that in order to > amortize the time and materials to develop such an upgrade given the > considerations above, each unit could cost as much as the K3 itself > (possibly more depending on expected sales volume), which could bring it > into the price range of some of the "big iron" with which it favorably > competes, both cost- and feature-wise. I suspect that there would not be > many takers at those prices. > > I'm sorry that some of the current owners of K3s seem to be disappointed in > it. Every engineering project is a trade-off, and I think that Wayne and > Eric represent the Burt Rutans of the radio world. Given that, I don't > think that even Burt Rutan would consider adapting a VariEze (K2) or a > Starship (K3) into an AirBus form factor, and I doubt that very many > customers would buy one. > > > 73 de Steve, NN0B > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Steve Harvey-2
K3 has been primarily designed for portable use/dx-speditions & field days and honestly I'm more focused and impressed from the results than the design. Everything is functional and easy to access even with my big fingers and for those who are lack of space (it's not my case) it would be an add-up.
A Steve says, to propose a "base" version would be a complete technical re-design of the K3 and really on the financial side what would be the market for a tiny company to invest in such a project ? Need to be sure to sold many thousands of units, enroll more staff, even new engineering equipment, larger premises, increasing exponentially the costs ...& taxes etc... In that specific case, Wayne & Eric are listening to most of our realistic comments and advises and the evolution of the K3 took our concerns to consideration that is the Ham sprit at a level where no major company has gone before. Human being is never satisfied of one's lot but I think we have to be modest and self adapted to the Elecraft rigs as they offer the best they can do. If they propose a new rig in the future it would be another issue and all our fears would have been analysed and well think over. Bst 73's Philippe A65BI K3#3616 *Elecraft, for Hams, by Hams...What else ? >>> "Steve Harvey" <[hidden email]> 10-08-2010 22:18 >>> I don't really have a horse in this race because I am personally very happy with my K3 (#693) and, knowing that Wayne's Engineering degree included emphasis on Engineering Ergonomics, I am satisfied that he has given us the best possible radio in the form factor that is most popular to most people who represent his target market. However, while there is nothing wrong with dreaming and asking for changes, I wonder how many of the Big Box k3 requesters have considered the magnitude of the effort required on Elecraft's part to deliver such a thing. First, the job would not be as trivial as simply re-packaging the insides in a bigger box. It would involve the design and testing of a new RF board and front panel in order to remove controls and displays to a different front panel (which would also have to be designed and tested) and to remove ports to a different back panel. Internal cable routing, shielding, and structural support would have to be altered with consequent testing as well. Cramming the P3, KPA500, and a power supply inside would only complicate things further. Also, because functions would have to be removed from menus and associated with front panel hardware, the firmware would have to be rewritten, which would require two versions to be maintained in parallel and alpha/beta tested for each release to keep them in sync. Elecraft is a small company, and most of the design and programming is done by only a couple of people whose jobs would grow enormously, and which would deprive other, more critical projects of their time and effort. Second, how much would the Big Box people be willing to pay for the upgrade, and how many could Elecraft expect to sell? My guess is that in order to amortize the time and materials to develop such an upgrade given the considerations above, each unit could cost as much as the K3 itself (possibly more depending on expected sales volume), which could bring it into the price range of some of the "big iron" with which it favorably competes, both cost- and feature-wise. I suspect that there would not be many takers at those prices. I'm sorry that some of the current owners of K3s seem to be disappointed in it. Every engineering project is a trade-off, and I think that Wayne and Eric represent the Burt Rutans of the radio world. Given that, I don't think that even Burt Rutan would consider adapting a VariEze (K2) or a Starship (K3) into an AirBus form factor, and I doubt that very many customers would buy one. 73 de Steve, NN0B -----Original Message----- From: Nicholas Farrar [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 7:32 PM To: elecraft Subject: [Elecraft] Big box K3 * So stop making noise just to be heard. What Im asking for would affect you anti-changer zero. And we all got it a few post back Phil... you dont like change.... fine. Then if you dont have any thing constructive to add, don't play. Some of us do want something new. Something more. The K3 is GREAT! But even the Queen of England could stand to refine herself a bit more. The beauty of what Im asking for in not the end of the K3. Its just enhancement. Why do some people fly off the handle of something so small. Take your toys and go home. Dont spoil our party on the idea of a larger K3(K3A). Phil Hystad* phystad at mac.com <elecraft%40mailman.qth.net?Subject=Re:%20%5BElecraft%5D%20Big%20box%20K3&In -Reply-To=%3C86842DC2-2AE9-4C26-95C1-77ED5E41E630%40mac.com%3E> *Mon Aug 9 21:13:21 EDT 2010* - Previous message: [Elecraft] Big Box K-3<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/134407.html> - *Messages sorted by:* [ date ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/date.html#134408> [ thread ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/thread.html#134408> [ subject ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/subject.html#134408> [ author ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/author.html#134408> ------------------------------ It seems to be that a bigger K3 is a different radio then the K3 and should be called something different. No, not even K3A or whatever. I probably would not buy one though. I like my K3 as it is. If there is some great new technology that is embraced by Elecraft that does not fit the K3, then maybe it is time for a K4. If that is in a bigger box, then so be it if that is needed. But, to have a bigger box merely to use space is not my obsession. I think the IC-7800 and the FT-9000 whatever are in very big boxes. When I first saw the FT-9000 my first thought was "No, I don't want that". I am surprised Eric hasn't put the kibosh to this thread -- maybe they are listening to the comments. If you are, I vote for status quo. PEH -- Nicholas W. Farrar Network Engineer / IT Coordinator Brown Folse PACS [hidden email] Office 318-595-0451 Mobile 318-381-9863 Fax 866-248-6128 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Oh no, not again.
Didn't this thread end already? Been big, gone small..job done! Happy camper!...(:-) Gary On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Philippe Trottet <[hidden email]> wrote: > K3 has been primarily designed for portable use/dx-speditions & field days > and honestly I'm more focused and impressed from the results than the > design. Everything is functional and easy to access even with my big fingers > and for those who are lack of space (it's not my case) it would be an > add-up. > A Steve says, to propose a "base" version would be a complete technical > re-design of the K3 and really on the financial side what would be the > market for a tiny company to invest in such a project ? Need to be sure to > sold many thousands of units, enroll more staff, even new engineering > equipment, larger premises, increasing exponentially the costs ...& taxes > etc... > In that specific case, Wayne & Eric are listening to most of our realistic > comments and advises and the evolution of the K3 took our concerns to > consideration that is the Ham sprit at a level where no major company has > gone before. > Human being is never satisfied of one's lot but I think we have to be > modest and self adapted to the Elecraft rigs as they offer the best they can > do. > If they propose a new rig in the future it would be another issue and all > our fears would have been analysed and well think over. > > Bst 73's > Philippe A65BI > K3#3616 > *Elecraft, for Hams, by Hams...What else ? > > > > > >>> "Steve Harvey" <[hidden email]> 10-08-2010 22:18 >>> > I don't really have a horse in this race because I am personally very happy > with my K3 (#693) and, knowing that Wayne's Engineering degree included > emphasis on Engineering Ergonomics, I am satisfied that he has given us the > best possible radio in the form factor that is most popular to most people > who represent his target market. > > However, while there is nothing wrong with dreaming and asking for changes, > I wonder how many of the Big Box k3 requesters have considered the > magnitude > of the effort required on Elecraft's part to deliver such a thing. > > First, the job would not be as trivial as simply re-packaging the insides > in > a bigger box. It would involve the design and testing of a new RF board > and > front panel in order to remove controls and displays to a different front > panel (which would also have to be designed and tested) and to remove ports > to a different back panel. Internal cable routing, shielding, and > structural > support would have to be altered with consequent testing as well. Cramming > the P3, KPA500, and a power supply inside would only complicate things > further. Also, because functions would have to be removed from menus and > associated with front panel hardware, the firmware would have to be > rewritten, which would require two versions to be maintained in parallel > and > alpha/beta tested for each release to keep them in sync. Elecraft is a > small company, and most of the design and programming is done by only a > couple of people whose jobs would grow enormously, and which would deprive > other, more critical projects of their time and effort. > > Second, how much would the Big Box people be willing to pay for the > upgrade, > and how many could Elecraft expect to sell? My guess is that in order to > amortize the time and materials to develop such an upgrade given the > considerations above, each unit could cost as much as the K3 itself > (possibly more depending on expected sales volume), which could bring it > into the price range of some of the "big iron" with which it favorably > competes, both cost- and feature-wise. I suspect that there would not be > many takers at those prices. > > I'm sorry that some of the current owners of K3s seem to be disappointed in > it. Every engineering project is a trade-off, and I think that Wayne and > Eric represent the Burt Rutans of the radio world. Given that, I don't > think that even Burt Rutan would consider adapting a VariEze (K2) or a > Starship (K3) into an AirBus form factor, and I doubt that very many > customers would buy one. > > > 73 de Steve, NN0B > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicholas Farrar [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 7:32 PM > To: elecraft > Subject: [Elecraft] Big box K3 > > * > So stop making noise just to be heard. What Im asking for would affect you > anti-changer zero. And we all got it a few post back Phil... you dont like > change.... fine. Then if you dont have any thing constructive to add, don't > play. Some of us do want something new. Something more. The K3 is GREAT! > But > even the Queen of England could stand to refine herself a bit more. The > beauty of what Im asking for in not the end of the K3. Its just > enhancement. > Why do some people fly off the handle of something so small. Take your toys > and go home. Dont spoil our party on the idea of a larger K3(K3A). > > > > > Phil Hystad* phystad at mac.com > <elecraft% > 40mailman.qth.net?Subject=Re:%20%5BElecraft%5D%20Big%20box%20K3&In > -Reply-To=%3C86842DC2-2AE9-4C26-95C1-77ED5E41E630%40mac.com%3E<http://40mailman.qth.net?Subject=Re:%20%5BElecraft%5D%20Big%20box%20K3&In%0A-Reply-To=%3C86842DC2-2AE9-4C26-95C1-77ED5E41E630%40mac.com%3E> > > > *Mon Aug 9 21:13:21 EDT 2010* > > > - Previous message: [Elecraft] Big Box > K-3<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/134407.html> > - *Messages sorted by:* [ date > ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/date.html#134408> > [ thread > ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/thread.html#134408 > > > [ subject > ]< > http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/subject.html#134408> > [ author > ]<http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/elecraft/2010-August/author.html#134408 > > > > ------------------------------ > > It seems to be that a bigger K3 is a different radio then the K3 and > should be called something different. No, not even K3A or whatever. > > I probably would not buy one though. I like my K3 as it is. If there > is some great new technology that is embraced by Elecraft that does > not fit the K3, then maybe it is time for a K4. If that is in a > bigger box, then so be it if that is needed. But, to have a bigger > box merely to use space is not my obsession. > > I think the IC-7800 and the FT-9000 whatever are in very big boxes. > When I first saw the FT-9000 my first thought was "No, I don't want > that". > > I am surprised Eric hasn't put the kibosh to this thread -- maybe they > are listening to the comments. If you are, I vote for status quo. > > PEH > > -- > Nicholas W. Farrar > Network Engineer / IT Coordinator > > Brown Folse PACS > [hidden email] > > Office 318-595-0451 > Mobile 318-381-9863 > Fax 866-248-6128 > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > -- Gary VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/ K3 #679 For everything else there's Mastercard!!! ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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