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Big weakness in Macro's

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Ed Gray W0SD

Big weakness in Macro's

IMHO there is a big need for a command that can be use to define things
back to the same state. One big rule in programming is you always set
the state of things so you are always dealing with a known starting
point. The command structure in the K3 does not permit this.

A number of things in the K3 are toggle, for example in MIC SEL 1
toggles the mic back and forth from high to low and 2 toggles for bias
on or no bias. There are a number of other instances of this in the K3.

Not having a command to define things back to the same state, lets call
it a default or reset state makes the programming commands in the K3
pretty weak IMHO.

Ed W0SD
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mzilmer

Re: Big weakness in Macro's

A while back, I wrote a CW functional test for the K3. In doing this, I ran straight into the programming problems cited earlier by Ed. My solution wasn't very innovative or elegant (not being involved in the firmware development at all), but it was adequate and met the requirements.

After establishing comm and getting control of the K3, the I would poll the toggle and multi-value states parameters that could be set by the program. There was a list of 25 or so controls of this type, and I would just add new ones as needed. The really fun part was reading back the values. I had to dump the VFO A or VFO B displays to do it. I took my cue from Dick Dievendorf, assuming he'd done something like this to read back the RTC time in the Set Date and Time tab on the K3 Utility.

Having the MN and MP commands saved a lot of effort as above, but the implementation is partial. That is not all MN parameters can be polled or set. So displaying parameters' toggle or multi-value state is about the only way, in the general case.

For a multi-value parameter (TEXT DEC is one I had to use a lot!), dialing through all the values is a little cumbersome and requires as many functions to get/set as the number of parameters that are used. OTOH, there are probably many MN parameters that would never be used by a hosted program and I believe that's why Wayne decided to implement the ones that were obviously needed or perhaps only those that were requested by software developers.

At the start of the program, I'd store all the toggles and multi-value parameters that the program could touch. When exiting back to Windows, the app would restore these, including the initial baud rate. The idea was to leave the K3 in the same exact state before and after.

I would guess the best argument for having a known default state is from Ed. But executing such a command would introduce a bit of entropy, meaning the K3 would end up in a different state from what it was when the hosted program was started. This might be ... disturbing ... to users, and disruptive to using the K3 without having to manually restore a bunch of parameters' states.

73,

Matt Zilmer
Consultant - Product Management Dept.
Magellan Navigation / MiTAC Digital Corp.
Tel: (909) 394-6052
Cell: (909) 730-6552
In status quo voluntas non sufficit

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of W0SD Ed Gray
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 11:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Big weakness in Macro's

IMHO there is a big need for a command that can be use to define things back to the same state. One big rule in programming is you always set the state of things so you are always dealing with a known starting point. The command structure in the K3 does not permit this.

A number of things in the K3 are toggle, for example in MIC SEL 1 toggles the mic back and forth from high to low and 2 toggles for bias on or no bias. There are a number of other instances of this in the K3.

Not having a command to define things back to the same state, lets call it a default or reset state makes the programming commands in the K3 pretty weak IMHO.

Ed W0SD
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Mike Markowski-2

Re: Big weakness in Macro's

In reply to this post by Ed Gray W0SD

It's crossed my mind from time to time when tackling issues like that
how nice it would be to have an Elecraft MIB and SNMP control. Think of
all the commercial & open source software and libraries that would
instantly be available. It's always easy to daydream when you're not
doing the work... :-)

73,
Mike ab3ap

On 12/07/2012 02:07 PM, W0SD Ed Gray wrote:
> IMHO there is a big need for a command that can be use to define things
> back to the same state. [...]
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wayne burdick

Re: Big weakness in Macro's

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ed Gray W0SD

Ed,

The switch emulation commands provide a method of activating functions
for which there are not yet "direct" commands. In many cases both
methods are available. For example, you can turn the preamp on/off
with a switch emulation, which toggles, but there's also a separate
command for this that sets it either on or off.

Please refer to the K3/KX3 Programmer's Reference for the full list of
commands. If there are specific cases where a new direct command would
be desirable, please let me know.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Dec 7, 2012, at 11:07 AM, W0SD Ed Gray wrote:

> IMHO there is a big need for a command that can be use to define
> things back to the same state. One big rule in programming is you
> always set the state of things so you are always dealing with a
> known starting point. The command structure in the K3 does not
> permit this.
>
> A number of things in the K3 are toggle, for example in MIC SEL 1
> toggles the mic back and forth from high to low and 2 toggles for
> bias on or no bias. There are a number of other instances of this
> in the K3.
>
> Not having a command to define things back to the same state, lets
> call it a default or reset state makes the programming commands in
> the K3 pretty weak IMHO.
>
> Ed W0SD
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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N5GE-2

Re: Big weakness in Macro's

In reply to this post by Ed Gray W0SD

I don't know what your application development background is, so if I
seem to be talking down to you, or anyone else, for that matter,
please don't take it personal.

You can have a good amount of control over the K3 with MACRO's, but
you can only have fine grained control by developing applications
that use logic to send the right command at the appropriate time.
Many times this requires knowing the exact state of the K3 or any
hardware device, which cannot be done with efficiency using MACRO's.
If you are good at describing steps for doing things, then you can
probably do software development.

If you can learn to program with C, C++, C#, VB, or Delphi you can
write some pretty nifty stuff for you Elecraft hardware. Microsoft
has many "Express" versions of their application development software
for free.

I don't work for MS, but do think their development software is
tip-top.

Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member
Retired Software Development Contractor

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 13:07:25 -0600, W0SD Ed Gray <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>IMHO there is a big need for a command that can be use to define things
>back to the same state. One big rule in programming is you always set
>the state of things so you are always dealing with a known starting
>point. The command structure in the K3 does not permit this.
>
>A number of things in the K3 are toggle, for example in MIC SEL 1
>toggles the mic back and forth from high to low and 2 toggles for bias
>on or no bias. There are a number of other instances of this in the K3.
>
>Not having a command to define things back to the same state, lets call
>it a default or reset state makes the programming commands in the K3
>pretty weak IMHO.
>
>Ed W0SD
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Pierfrancesco Caci

Re: Big weakness in Macro's

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

The microphone selection, please.

Pf

>>>>> "Wayne" == Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> writes:

Wayne> Ed,
Wayne> The switch emulation commands provide a method of activating functions
Wayne> for which there are not yet "direct" commands. In many cases both
Wayne> methods are available. For example, you can turn the preamp on/off
Wayne> with a switch emulation, which toggles, but there's also a separate
Wayne> command for this that sets it either on or off.

Wayne> Please refer to the K3/KX3 Programmer's Reference for the full list of
Wayne> commands. If there are specific cases where a new direct command would
Wayne> be desirable, please let me know.

Wayne> 73,
Wayne> Wayne
Wayne> N6KR

Wayne> On Dec 7, 2012, at 11:07 AM, W0SD Ed Gray wrote:

>> IMHO there is a big need for a command that can be use to define
>> things back to the same state. One big rule in programming is you
>> always set the state of things so you are always dealing with a
>> known starting point. The command structure in the K3 does not
>> permit this.
>>
>> A number of things in the K3 are toggle, for example in MIC SEL 1
>> toggles the mic back and forth from high to low and 2 toggles for
>> bias on or no bias. There are a number of other instances of this
>> in the K3.
>>
>> Not having a command to define things back to the same state, lets
>> call it a default or reset state makes the programming commands in
>> the K3 pretty weak IMHO.
>>
>> Ed W0SD
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Wayne> ______________________________________________________________
Wayne> Elecraft mailing list
Wayne> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Wayne> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Wayne> Post: mailto:[hidden email]

Wayne> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Wayne> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

--
Pierfrancesco Caci, ik5pvx
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Ed Gray W0SD

Re: Big weakness in Macro's

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

I know a number of us would be very pleased with the microphone
selection being able to be set to a known state for H/L and the Bias
ON/OFF. I can sure see with the Elecraft macros dealing with these
toggle situations on an individual basis vs. over-all make sense and I
am sure easier to implement. Wayne said he would look into it so I hope
it happens.

Ed W0SD

On 12/8/2012 1:20 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> Ed,
>
> The switch emulation commands provide a method of activating functions
> for which there are not yet "direct" commands. In many cases both
> methods are available. For example, you can turn the preamp on/off
> with a switch emulation, which toggles, but there's also a separate
> command for this that sets it either on or off.
>
> Please refer to the K3/KX3 Programmer's Reference for the full list of
> commands. If there are specific cases where a new direct command would
> be desirable, please let me know.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>

k1htv

Re: Big weakness in Macro's

In reply to this post by Ed Gray W0SD

Ed,
You probably already now this, but other K3 or KX3 users may not. Until there is a single command for changing between the K3's front panel mic jack, the rear panel mic jack or the rear panel line in, the way to make the switch is to use one of these macros.

Mic Input - Front Panel: MN053;DN;DN;DN;MN255;
Mic Input - Rear Panel: MN053;DN;DN;DN;UP;MN255;
Line Input - Rear Panel: MN053;UP;UP;MN255;

You can also add gain (MG0##;) and/or compression (CP0##;) settings to the microphone macro examples above, where ## is the desired two digit setting. Use your front panel MIC gain pot to set levels if you use Line Input.

For those who are interested in writing macros for the K3 or KX3, you can download the K3/KX3 Programmer's Reference at:

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/K3&KX3%20Pgmrs%20Ref,%20E2.pdf

73,
Rich - K1HTV

= = =
On Dec 7, 2012, at 11:07 AM, W0SD Ed Gray wrote: