Boots for the XG3...
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I obtained some 7-pole LP filters from Coilcraft:
http://www.coilcraft.com/lcfilt.cfm http://www.coilcraft.com/pdf_viewer/showpdf.cfm?f=pdf_store:lcfilt.pdf cost $3.00 in single quantities. This would take care of harmonic suppression. I have five of these for different frequencies but have been working on other projects so have not measured them using the XG3. I intend to install mine in 1-inch copper pipe with BNC connectors for better isolation at very weak signal levels, but that would not be needed if incorporated into a beacon amplifier. The easiest approach for that is using mmics and RF modules that are 50-ohm in/out. All that is required is some dc bias and some RF bypassing of the dc lines. This is probably more appropriate for a third party than Elecraft. I'm guessing it would be a low volume item. I proposed the MAR-6 plus M57735 to John Ragle. The M57735 costs $67.75 from RFParts. http://www.rfparts.com/pdf_docs/57704-68776/57735.pdf The M57735 is rated 17w out for 200mw in, so with 20mw drive one might get 1.7w (gain = 25 dB with 10mw drive). The MAR-6 are about $5 and will provide about 16-18dB gain with 0dBm input. Add filter, misc components, connectors, pcb, and enclosure and it is looking like about $100 without labor to assemble it. Someone offering this as a kit would probably want another 25% markup for their time. Add $12 for flat-rate shipping. How many folks would order a kit? 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email] ====================================== ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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*PLEASE DO NOT* move forward with *any* amplifier for the XG-3. Like John Ragle I have looked at the phase noise from my XG-3 and it is completely unsatisfactory for beacon use. At -33 dBm it raises the receiver noise floor by more than 20 dB when measured at + 100 KHz on 28 MHz and + 250 KHz in 50 MHz. The measured noise floor (MDS) is more than -110 dBm and at 10W, the XG-3 would make an excellent jamming device. When used as a beacon at even *ONE WATT* the required path loss would need to be around 100 dB for the phase noise to be below the receiver noise level and would still need to be 80 dB or more to be below the local noise level on a "quiet" band. If "boots" become common for the XG-3, I would urge Wayne to remove the beacon capability from the XG-3. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/27/2011 2:05 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote: > I obtained some 7-pole LP filters from Coilcraft: > http://www.coilcraft.com/lcfilt.cfm > http://www.coilcraft.com/pdf_viewer/showpdf.cfm?f=pdf_store:lcfilt.pdf > cost $3.00 in single quantities. > > This would take care of harmonic suppression. I have five of these > for different frequencies but have been working on other projects so > have not measured them using the XG3. I intend to install mine in > 1-inch copper pipe with BNC connectors for better isolation at very > weak signal levels, but that would not be needed if incorporated into > a beacon amplifier. The easiest approach for that is using mmics and > RF modules that are 50-ohm in/out. All that is required is some dc > bias and some RF bypassing of the dc lines. > > This is probably more appropriate for a third party than > Elecraft. I'm guessing it would be a low volume item. > > I proposed the MAR-6 plus M57735 to John Ragle. The M57735 costs > $67.75 from RFParts. > http://www.rfparts.com/pdf_docs/57704-68776/57735.pdf > The M57735 is rated 17w out for 200mw in, so with 20mw drive one > might get 1.7w (gain = 25 dB with 10mw drive). > The MAR-6 are about $5 and will provide about 16-18dB gain with 0dBm input. > > Add filter, misc components, connectors, pcb, and enclosure and it is > looking like about $100 without labor to assemble it. Someone > offering this as a kit would probably want another 25% markup for > their time. Add $12 for flat-rate shipping. > > How many folks would order a kit? > > > > 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 > ====================================== > BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com > EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? > DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email] > ====================================== > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Remove the beacon mode and the XG-3 becomes useless for T Hunts :-(
Let anybody who wants to play with their XG-3 be responsible for what they do. Given what has been written in this thread, I don't see people rushing off, to build XG-3 amplifiers :-) We have all learnt something in this discussion, so let's build a bridge....... and get over it :-) 73, Jack. VK4JRC Sent from my iPod Touch On 28/06/2011, at 0:32, "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]> wrote: > > *PLEASE DO NOT* move forward with *any* amplifier for the XG-3. > > Like John Ragle I have looked at the phase noise from my XG-3 and it > is completely unsatisfactory for beacon use. At -33 dBm it raises the > receiver noise floor by more than 20 dB when measured at + 100 KHz on > 28 MHz and + 250 KHz in 50 MHz. The measured noise floor (MDS) is more > than -110 dBm and at 10W, the XG-3 would make an excellent jamming > device. > > When used as a beacon at even *ONE WATT* the required path loss would > need to be around 100 dB for the phase noise to be below the receiver > noise level and would still need to be 80 dB or more to be below the > local noise level on a "quiet" band. > > If "boots" become common for the XG-3, I would urge Wayne to remove > the beacon capability from the XG-3. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Just to clear this up:
1. We are *not* going to remove beacon mode (CW and RTTY text). It's useful for micropower beacons, T-hunts, and receiver demodulator testing. 2. The XG3's phase noise, about -105 dBc/Hz at all offsets above 1 kHz, is better than that of some inexpensive radios. But it's 30 dB worse than the K3, so.... 3. As I've posted before, you should not amplify the output to high levels. 100 mW to 1 W is the highest I'd recommend. And if you plan to leave it running, you'll need a low-pass filter to keep it legal. 73, Wayne N6KR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Very happy to hear that...but I already saved a copy of 1.14 just in case! Add "antenna testing" to your list of XG3 applications. I'll be using mine to do fine tuning of my 160m RX 4SQ by locating it a mile or so away and tuning the controller for maximum F/B. If I ever get the urge to do an OTA beacon I'll do that with my K2 and an attenuator. 73, Bill |
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
> Let the guys play with their XG3 with 0 dBm...best approach. 0 dBm is fine but I certainly would not want my neighbor putting a 1W XG3 into a decent (0 dBi) antenna - his Icom 746 is already a terrible phase noise generator. At 1W the calculation for the XG3 at 1 mile in a 500 Hz bandwidth at 14 MHz is roughly: +30 dBm (1W) - (105 dBC/Hz - 10*log(500)) - 60 dB (path loss) With net antenna gain of 0dB, that's about -107 dBm on 20, go down to 160 and it is around -90 dBm and go up to 6 and it drops to about -118 dBm. The situation at 160 may not be quite that bad but it might be worse on six because of the net antenna gain factors. In any case, the noise for an XG3 amplified to 1W at 1 mile is well above the ambient noise level - even a for multiband vertical in my semi-rural/suburban area. The hard numbers make it clear that 0 dBm is about the limit for an XG3 into a "real" antenna! 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/27/2011 5:12 PM, Edward R. Cole wrote: > Joe, > > NO worries. I was just testing the waters to see if there *any* > interest. I would have to build a prototype and test it before offering > anything publicly. One might have to decide on a beacon frequency and > build a multi-pole xtal filter to take care of phase noise or maybe use > the XG3 in a PLL that would clean up the phase noise. Just about any > approach seems a lot of work just to use the XG3. Most likely one is > better building a clean beacon from scratch. > > Let the guys play with their XG3 with 0 dBm...best approach. I have used > mine on 432 and 1296 as a test signal for my eme dish and placed it up > to 200-foot from the dish. Using a 6-dB log-periodic antenna and 15-dB > attenuators. Theoretically the XG3 outputs 1/n above 200-MHz (432 = -4.8 > dBm; 1296 = -9.5 dBm, assuming it is running at Fo=144 and n=3 or 9) I > even pointed the log-periodic away from the dish to obtain a weaker > signal. The dish has 34.5 dBi gain on 1296. > > I have a 144-MHz and 10-GHz dual beacon half-finished that runs with a > TCXO for 10-GHz and xtal osc for 2m. Basically it is a 144/10,368 > transverter with 20-dB directional coupler to tap off 20mw 144-MHz for > driving the transverter and 2w going to a omni-directional 2m antenna. > The transverter should provide 100-125mw output to a multi-slot > waveguide radiator for about 1/2w ERP on 10-GHz. I also have a 1w amp to > boost the 10-GHz output. > > 73, Ed > > At 06:32 AM 6/27/2011, you wrote: > >> *PLEASE DO NOT* move forward with *any* amplifier for the XG-3. >> >> Like John Ragle I have looked at the phase noise from my XG-3 and it >> is completely unsatisfactory for beacon use. At -33 dBm it raises the >> receiver noise floor by more than 20 dB when measured at + 100 KHz on >> 28 MHz and + 250 KHz in 50 MHz. The measured noise floor (MDS) is more >> than -110 dBm and at 10W, the XG-3 would make an excellent jamming >> device. >> >> When used as a beacon at even *ONE WATT* the required path loss would >> need to be around 100 dB for the phase noise to be below the receiver >> noise level and would still need to be 80 dB or more to be below the >> local noise level on a "quiet" band. >> >> If "boots" become common for the XG-3, I would urge Wayne to remove >> the beacon capability from the XG-3. >> >> 73, >> >> ... Joe, W4TV >> >> >> On 6/27/2011 2:05 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote: >>> I obtained some 7-pole LP filters from Coilcraft: >>> http://www.coilcraft.com/lcfilt.cfm >>> http://www.coilcraft.com/pdf_viewer/showpdf.cfm?f=pdf_store:lcfilt.pdf >>> cost $3.00 in single quantities. >>> >>> This would take care of harmonic suppression. I have five of these >>> for different frequencies but have been working on other projects so >>> have not measured them using the XG3. I intend to install mine in >>> 1-inch copper pipe with BNC connectors for better isolation at very >>> weak signal levels, but that would not be needed if incorporated into >>> a beacon amplifier. The easiest approach for that is using mmics and >>> RF modules that are 50-ohm in/out. All that is required is some dc >>> bias and some RF bypassing of the dc lines. >>> >>> This is probably more appropriate for a third party than >>> Elecraft. I'm guessing it would be a low volume item. >>> >>> I proposed the MAR-6 plus M57735 to John Ragle. The M57735 costs >>> $67.75 from RFParts. >>> http://www.rfparts.com/pdf_docs/57704-68776/57735.pdf >>> The M57735 is rated 17w out for 200mw in, so with 20mw drive one >>> might get 1.7w (gain = 25 dB with 10mw drive). >>> The MAR-6 are about $5 and will provide about 16-18dB gain with 0dBm >>> input. >>> >>> Add filter, misc components, connectors, pcb, and enclosure and it is >>> looking like about $100 without labor to assemble it. Someone >>> offering this as a kit would probably want another 25% markup for >>> their time. Add $12 for flat-rate shipping. >>> >>> How many folks would order a kit? >>> >>> >>> >>> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 >>> ====================================== >>> BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com >>> EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? >>> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email] >>> ====================================== >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 >> ====================================== >> BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com >> EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? >> DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email] >> ====================================== > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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