Elecraft

Bug mode on K3?

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Bill Breeden

Re: Bug mode on K3?

I agree, the single lever Kent (SP-1) is a good value for the price.
Very well made and has a good solid feel.

http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/kmk-sp-1

73,

Bill - NA5DX

On 12/9/2014 9:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Message: 31
> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 21:41:28 -0600
> From: Al Gulseth<[hidden email]>
> To:[hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bug mode on K3?
> Message-ID:<[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Agreed on "bang for the buck"; another in that category IMHO is the Kent SP-1.
> I have both, with a slight edge to the Kent, but YMMV. And, for the op who
> wants the feel of a bug with an electronic keyer, the Vibroplex "VibroKeyer"
> is still in production... fifty years after it was introduced....
>
> 73, Al

k6dgw

Re: Bug mode on K3?

In reply to this post by Al Gulseth-2

Folks, I actually have a "real" Vibroplex, given to me by a friend who
was a Coast Guard Radioman. It has all the problems of a basic
Vibroplex, mainly dots way too fast. I tried putting a little cable
clamp on it as some of my crew did years ago, but that adds a lot of
inertia and probably accounts for why I slap my iambic paddle around now
... no squeezing. My Lionel J-36, beat up as it was, ran just fine and
I had the only perfect fist on the radio. :-) Once I moved to
electronic keyers, of increasing complexity, I can't go back to a bug,
nor do I want to, I'm old and manual dexterity is waning [along with
other things].

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 12/9/2014 7:41 PM, Al Gulseth wrote:
> Agreed on "bang for the buck"; another in that category IMHO is the Kent SP-1.
> I have both, with a slight edge to the Kent, but YMMV. And, for the op who
> wants the feel of a bug with an electronic keyer, the Vibroplex "VibroKeyer"
> is still in production... fifty years after it was introduced....

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Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: Bug mode on K3?

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Go for a Winkey chip based box, which includes the MicroHam line and the
Winkey "house models", and set the mode to "Ultimatic" to use with your
single lever paddle. It is the most "natural" by far for someone raised on
a mechanical bug and who just can't get themselves to do Iambic.

Any box with a keyer chip based on any version of WinKey has IambicA,
IambicB and Ultimatic as choices of keying modes. This would be any of the
Winkey boxes of course, the MicroHam contest boxes, and others I can't
recall at the moment.

A single lever paddle and Ultimatic in the Winkey chip have long been my
favorite as I was never able to make the transition from mechanical bug to
dual lever paddle and the Iambic methods. Guy plus Iambic plus dual lever
paddle = sloppy, awful, mistake-ridden code. Just can't do it. Ultimatic
plus dual lever paddle = decent code, but after a while my hand cramps.

Given the various things that have to go on controlling a contest station
and the very useful integration of functions, I have a MicroHam "CW Keyer"
which was my first MicroHam purchase and now a MicroHam u2R which very
nicely works my K3 and K2 side-by-side. I have never looked back.

Some of my friends have the very reasonably priced Winkey USB keyers, and
some earlier Winkey boxes, which allow either a logging program or the
paddle to drive the output which goes into the K3 straight key jack (not
the paddle).

I still use a Vibrokeyer single lever paddle which I've had since the 70's,
but am seriously looking at the current crop of magnetic single lever
paddles. The paddle is plugged into the u2R. For field day, I take along
the small MicroHam CW Keyer instead, which provides the complete
functionality for N1MM+ to drive it from my laptop.

The MicroHam boxes, and the USB Winkey boxes connect to the PC with a USB
cable, and provide RS232 signal lines to the transceiver for CAT and
command functions. With N1MM+ running, the paddle CW speed is always the
same as the box knob or the N1MM+ speed. In N1MM+ the box speed knob also
runs the N1MM+ CW speed up and down just like the page up and down keys.

It's a very slick station integration, and I do NOT have to use dual lever
or my Iambic enemy, and I can switch back and forth with a real bug without
my brain blowing fuses.

73, Guy K2AV

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 9:13 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > They are progressive, offering versions of Iambic keying only.
>
> The fact that a keyer offers Iambic A/Iambic B has *nothing* to do
> with the ability to support a single lever paddle. I have used single
> lever paddles with the Iambic keyers in Icom (IC-706mkIIg), Yaesu
> (FT-1000D, FT-1000MP MKV, FT-2000) and Elecraft (K3) with no issues.
> The iambic features of the keyer are not active unless both left and
> right contacts are closed at the same time - which is a physical
> impossibility with a single lever paddle.
>
> > then why do you suppose I built a keyer to use with my paddle?
>
> I have no idea why you built a totally unnecessary keyer to use with
> your paddle.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
> On 2014-12-09 8:56 PM, W2BLC wrote:
>
>> The internal keyers on several rigs I have used, including the K3, do
>> not well support the single lever paddle. They are progressive, offering
>> versions of Iambic keying only. If they did function properly with a
>> single lever paddle - then why do you suppose I built a keyer to use
>> with my paddle?
>>
>> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>>
>>
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Bug mode on K3?

On Tue,12/9/2014 8:53 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> Any box with a keyer chip based on any version of WinKey has IambicA,
> IambicB and Ultimatic as choices of keying modes. This would be any of the
> Winkey boxes of course, the MicroHam contest boxes, and others I can't
> recall at the moment.

Also the wonderful Yankee Clipper Contest Club's SO2R box.

73, Jim K9YC
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gm3sek

Re: Bug mode on K3?

In reply to this post by Edward R Cole

Ed - KL7UW wrote:
>
>The K14 offers six keying modes:
>1- Iambic-A
>2- Iambic-B
>3- Ultimatic
>4- straight key
>5- Dit priority
>6- Dash priority
>
And others have also identified:
7- Mechanical bug
8- CMOS Superkeyer (Logikeyer)

That list would be a reasonable 'industry-wide benchmark' for the
keying/timing modes that a premium CW transceiver like the K3 should
offer as built-in options.

Each one of those keying modes has a significant real-world following.
Translation: there are significant numbers of K3 users who NEED that
specific timing mode in order to operate close to their personal top
speed.

What K3 users *don't* need is to be told to use an external keyer, an
adapter or some other workaround. We already know the workarounds
because - even after 7 years - the K3 still needs them.

73 from Ian GM3SEK

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Bug mode on K3?

Ian,

The K14 and its kin are devices specializing in
being keyers; and that's all they were intended to
do. Expecting the K3 to have the keying
capabilities of one of the specialized K1EL
products seems a bit much.

A better 'industry-wide benchmark' might be to
compare the K3 with other high-end ham
transceivers with regard to the keying modes they
provide.

Phil W7OX

On 12/10/14 12:44 AM, Ian White wrote:

> Ed - KL7UW wrote:
>> The K14 offers six keying modes:
>> 1- Iambic-A
>> 2- Iambic-B
>> 3- Ultimatic
>> 4- straight key
>> 5- Dit priority
>> 6- Dash priority
>>
> And others have also identified:
> 7- Mechanical bug
> 8- CMOS Superkeyer (Logikeyer)
>
> That list would be a reasonable 'industry-wide benchmark' for the
> keying/timing modes that a premium CW transceiver like the K3 should
> offer as built-in options.
>
> Each one of those keying modes has a significant real-world following.
> Translation: there are significant numbers of K3 users who NEED that
> specific timing mode in order to operate close to their personal top
> speed.
>
> What K3 users *don't* need is to be told to use an external keyer, an
> adapter or some other workaround. We already know the workarounds
> because - even after 7 years - the K3 still needs them.
>
>
> 73 from Ian GM3SEK

HarryW

Re: Bug mode on K3?

Phil,

The Kenwood TS-990S offers "Straight Key", "Paddle", or "Paddle (Bug Key
Mode)". In addition it offers Iambic mode A and Iambic mode B when using the
electronic keyer.

73,
Harry K1RSA

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil
Wheeler
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:41 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bug mode on K3?

Ian,

The K14 and its kin are devices specializing in being keyers; and that's all
they were intended to do. Expecting the K3 to have the keying capabilities
of one of the specialized K1EL products seems a bit much.

A better 'industry-wide benchmark' might be to compare the K3 with other
high-end ham transceivers with regard to the keying modes they provide.

Phil W7OX

On 12/10/14 12:44 AM, Ian White wrote:

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Phil Wheeler-2

Re: Bug mode on K3?

Thanks for following my suggestion, Harry.

Phil W7OX

On 12/10/14 7:02 AM, Harry White wrote:

> Phil,
>
> The Kenwood TS-990S offers "Straight Key", "Paddle", or "Paddle (Bug Key
> Mode)". In addition it offers Iambic mode A and Iambic mode B when using the
> electronic keyer.
>
> 73,
> Harry K1RSA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil
> Wheeler
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:41 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bug mode on K3?
>
> Ian,
>
> The K14 and its kin are devices specializing in being keyers; and that's all
> they were intended to do. Expecting the K3 to have the keying capabilities
> of one of the specialized K1EL products seems a bit much.
>
> A better 'industry-wide benchmark' might be to compare the K3 with other
> high-end ham transceivers with regard to the keying modes they provide.
>
> Phil W7OX
>
> On 12/10/14 12:44 AM, Ian White wrote:
>> Ed - KL7UW wrote:
>>> The K14 offers six keying modes:
>>> 1- Iambic-A
>>> 2- Iambic-B
>>> 3- Ultimatic
>>> 4- straight key
>>> 5- Dit priority
>>> 6- Dash priority
>>>
>> And others have also identified:
>> 7- Mechanical bug
>> 8- CMOS Superkeyer (Logikeyer)
>>
>> That list would be a reasonable 'industry-wide benchmark' for the
>> keying/timing modes that a premium CW transceiver like the K3 should
>> offer as built-in options.
>>
>> Each one of those keying modes has a significant real-world following.
>> Translation: there are significant numbers of K3 users who NEED that
>> specific timing mode in order to operate close to their personal top
>> speed.
>>
>> What K3 users *don't* need is to be told to use an external keyer, an
>> adapter or some other workaround. We already know the workarounds
>> because - even after 7 years - the K3 still needs them.
>>
>>
>> 73 from Ian GM3SEK

gm3sek

Re: Bug mode on K3?

In reply to this post by Phil Wheeler-2

>Ian,
>
>The K14 and its kin are devices specializing in
>being keyers; and that's all they were intended to
>do. Expecting the K3 to have the keying
>capabilities of one of the specialized K1EL
>products seems a bit much.
>
>A better 'industry-wide benchmark' might be to
>compare the K3 with other high-end ham
>transceivers with regard to the keying modes they
>provide.
>
>Phil W7OX
>

I wouldn't ever ask for all the facilities of a specialized keyer. The
wider range of timing options is the only exception, because
significant numbers of K3 users NEED a specific timing mode other than
Curtis A or Curtis B in order to gain full access to the K3's internal
keyer. This is particularly important for the K3 because paddle-sent
RTTY and PSK are accessible only through the internal keyer.

As regards the comparisons with other high-end transceivers, I would
NEVER expect Elecraft to settle for being 'ordinary' or 'average' - not
in this way or any other.

73 from Ian GM3SEK

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>Phil Wheeler
>Sent: 10 December 2014 14:41
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Bug mode on K3?
>
>On 12/10/14 12:44 AM, Ian White wrote:
>> Ed - KL7UW wrote:
>>> The K14 offers six keying modes:
>>> 1- Iambic-A
>>> 2- Iambic-B
>>> 3- Ultimatic
>>> 4- straight key
>>> 5- Dit priority
>>> 6- Dash priority
>>>
>> And others have also identified:
>> 7- Mechanical bug
>> 8- CMOS Superkeyer (Logikeyer)
>>
>> That list would be a reasonable 'industry-wide benchmark' for the
>> keying/timing modes that a premium CW transceiver like the K3 should
>> offer as built-in options.
>>
>> Each one of those keying modes has a significant real-world

following.

>> Translation: there are significant numbers of K3 users who NEED that
>> specific timing mode in order to operate close to their personal top
>> speed.
>>
>> What K3 users *don't* need is to be told to use an external keyer, an
>> adapter or some other workaround. We already know the workarounds
>> because - even after 7 years - the K3 still needs them.
>>
>>
>> 73 from Ian GM3SEK
>

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: Bug mode on K3?

In reply to this post by gm3sek

On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 3:44 AM, Ian White <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That list would be a reasonable 'industry-wide benchmark' for the
> keying/timing modes that a premium CW transceiver like the K3 should
> offer as built-in options.
>

/rant mode on/
[Medical warning: delete this message now without reading if rants cause
you to break out in hives or have other side effects]

I specifically do not agree that Ian's list should be a benchmark. The only
fully debugged version of a lot of those is copyrighted code in a WinKey
product. Ask K1EL how much development and debugging time is vested in
that, how many solved once-perplexing problems are now water under the
bridge in that mature code. Should we be presuming that some non-licensed
code-from-scratch version, even from the gifted crew at Elecraft, could
emerge without some significant learning curve that duplicates K1EL's
experience in some measure?

Part of the problem with the no-external-boxes-need-apply take on this, for
many of the rather marvelous contest function integration boxes (like my
MicroHam u2R), to make it work the WinKey chip needs to be IN THE BOX,
fully integrated. This is so the state of all connected devices can be
situationally managed from the BOX's firmware, a really ridiculous task to
export to a transceiver. Ask the MicroHam people how much work that
firmware has been over the years.

Since integrating all of the box functions into the K3 is never going to
happen, I have to buy the integration box for the contests anyway. I have
the more-than-quite-adequate WinKey functionality in my u2R box. It comes
on with the K3, and my paddle is plugged into the u2R for all operations at
the shack.

So I really would prefer that Elecraft spend their time on stuff that MUST
be done in the transceiver, rather than turn half the firmware into
accessory routines, which by nature would be an endless source of
complaints. (Cue sound of soulful violins) "Why doesn't my transceiver only
blow smoke out of my right ear instead of my left when I'm operating SO2R
and focus is on the left transceiver?"

There are some number of ham entrepreneurs out there (like K4PN, etc) who
might do a WinKey chip based add-on board to go inside a K3, **IF** he felt
the market was a hundred times the size of the complainer's list here on
the reflector, and he could actually charge enough to cover what it cost
him, with a little reasonable profit tacked on. Maybe MicroHam could take
that on. From here they have the best vantage point to pull it off.

My K3 won't wipe my b*tt either, but I'm quite content to leave that means
hanging on the WC wall, and effect all that separately, and yes, (gasp)
operate it manually manually.

Again, it is all too easy to presume or spend someone else's time and
money. Bad habit.

Wayne and company have been fantastic at sorting out all the stuff, picking
out the essentials to spend time on. More more than ANY rig I have seen
since 1958, the K3 represents a sure classic, fully-fleshed-out rig that
serves just about any operating paradigm. AND, HE IS STILL DOING
FIRMWARE-ONLY STUFF FOR FREE (!!!). Match that anywhere else in hamdom.

Two WRTC's in a row, and WHAT rig was used most by the teams? By far, no
other rig in second place? In this case people are voting with their bank
balance. Those numbers are statistically very serious. By a very wide
margin, those paying voters have declared the K3 AS the industry-wide
benchmark, Ian's contrary declaration notwithstanding.

**IF** Wayne, for his own reasons, decides to add Ultimatic to the list of
keyer methods, I will certainly enjoy it in a very few specific situations
across the year.

But whatever else, for me the most annoying CW exercise will be trying to
operate the maddening dual-lever paddle on Iambic A on a run I picked up
sliding in as relief to a live operating position, and can't stop to switch
around cords and menu settings without losing the cool run frequency. And
there is nothing Wayne can add to a K3 to help me out. For me none of the
various frustrations voiced here rise anywhere near that level.

The one great satisfaction I have where I multi-op is that all the rigs at
all the positions are K3's, and I always have the benefit of K3 continuing
development at every position, and so am always operating the number one
rig in the world.

I have quit pushing on Elecraft for things that aren't firmware bugs or
aren't firmware design choices where 7 or 8 years of field operation have
uncovered unintended consequences. Wayne is far, far better at sorting out
the stuff than I. And he knows what to do to stay in business. What would
all you complainers do if Elecraft went out of business?

/rant mode off/

73, Guy K2AV
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Bill-3

Re: Bug mode on K3?

Well said, thank you!

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Kevin Stover

Re: Bug mode on K3?

In reply to this post by Guy Olinger K2AV

Nicely put Guy.
My WK3USB has totally replaced my Logikey K5 for everything...not just
contests.
I think I'll try "Bug Mode" this afternoon, or maybe Ultimatic.
I always thought Elecraft should have licensed the WK2/3 chip from K1EL
like Micro Ham did.

--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441

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Gary Gregory-2

Re: Bug mode on K3?

There is ample amounts of kool-aid flooding around here still i see...:-)

Gary
Vk1ZZ
K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3.
On 14/12/2014 1:39 AM, "Kevin Stover" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Nicely put Guy.
> My WK3USB has totally replaced my Logikey K5 for everything...not just
> contests.
> I think I'll try "Bug Mode" this afternoon, or maybe Ultimatic.
> I always thought Elecraft should have licensed the WK2/3 chip from K1EL
> like Micro Ham did.
>
> --
> R. Kevin Stover
> AC0H
> ARRL
> FISTS #11993
> SKCC #215
> NAQCC #3441
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Andy Faber

KPA-500 problem

In reply to this post by Kevin Stover

My KPA-500 seems to have developed a problem. It acts normally, except when
the OPER/STBY switch is in OPER, it seems to attenuate received signals by
20dB or more. This is new behavior. Any ideas? If it's relevant, I have
an early model, serial under 100, that has behaved flawlessly up till now.
73, andy ae6y

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Andy Faber

Re: KPA-500 problem

Howard,
Brilliant! That's it. Thanks.
73, andy ae6y

From: Howard Stephenson
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 1:09 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KPA-500 problem

Hi Andy,

If you see the * in the KPA display when you put the switch into OPER the KPA is going into the TX state waiting for RF, the TR switch over would attenuate the RX signals.
If that is what you are seeing, I would check and make sure that you don't have a short in your PTT or AUX cable.

73,

Howard Stephenson
K6IA
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