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CW AGC settings

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Leroy Buller

CW AGC settings

Hello all. Long time posting here. I am interested in CW AGC settings you
like on your K3. I have been fooling around with the settings and wonder
what others like. I am interested in CW contest settings.

Lee K0WA
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Elecraft mailing list

Re: CW AGC settings

I never use AGC on cw, only on ssb (and that ain't too often, hi)

Bill
K3WJV

On Thursday, April 26, 2018, 1:17:25 PM EDT, Leroy Buller <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello all. Long time posting here. I am interested in CW AGC settings you
like on your K3. I have been fooling around with the settings and wonder
what others like. I am interested in CW contest settings.

Lee K0WA
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: CW AGC settings

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

Mike K8CN

Re: CW AGC settings

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

Don, W3FPR wrote a succinct tutorial about AGC settings on his web page
www.w3fpr.com under the title "Noisy" K3. I had left my AGC settings for CW
contesting at the default values until reading Don's guidance, and once I
reset the AGC threshold and slope parameters I had much better CW contesting
experiences.

Mike, K8CN

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Don Wilhelm

Re: CW AGC settings

Thank you Mike for mentioning that article.

Yes, adjusting your AGC Threshold and Slope is preferable to running
with AGC off.

Fortunately, the K3/K3S has an adjustable limiter to help protect the
ears for those operators who would still choose to run with AGC off.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/26/2018 4:44 PM, Mike K8CN wrote:

> Don, W3FPR wrote a succinct tutorial about AGC settings on his web page
> www.w3fpr.com under the title "Noisy" K3. I had left my AGC settings for CW
> contesting at the default values until reading Don's guidance, and once I
> reset the AGC threshold and slope parameters I had much better CW contesting
> experiences.
>
> Mike, K8CN
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
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k6dgw

Re: CW AGC settings

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

I *always* have AGC on. To each his own. Don has an excellent and
enlightening AGC dissertation at www.w3fpr.com which is worth reading.
See "Noisy K3." You asked for settings, mine are:

THR=10
SLP=14
PLS=nor
HLD=0.1
DCY=nor
Fast=120
Slow=20

I operate mainly CW although I do listen to SSB a little and do a little
general coverage SWL listening. I run fast AGC on CW, usually slow on
SSB. Your threshold setting will depend somewhat on your ambient noise
level. Slope seems to be a personal preference. I like to hear a
difference between signals of different strength.

Before we moved, I was surrounded by electric fences [some mine] which
always started arcing in the spring when the weeds grew up on the fence
line. The noise blanker would take the pulses out, PLS=nor prevented
them from activating the AGC. I think DCY is personal preference, nor
seems to work best for my compromised hearing. Hope this helps ... and
actually answers your questions?

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 4/26/2018 12:01 PM, Bill Stravinsky via Elecraft wrote:

> I never use AGC on cw, only on ssb (and that ain't too often, hi)
>
> Bill
> K3WJV
>
> On Thursday, April 26, 2018, 1:17:25 PM EDT, Leroy Buller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello all. Long time posting here. I am interested in CW AGC settings you
> like on your K3. I have been fooling around with the settings and wonder
> what others like. I am interested in CW contest settings.
>
> Lee K0WA
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: CW AGC settings

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Don, I just read your article to see what the hubbub was about with AGC. I live in a rural area in the woods so noise is really not a problem.
I was taught a long time ago to keep the AGC off for weak signal reception and it stuck with me. Those were the S line days. And in your
article you mention ops that can copy into the noise and that certainly describes me, hi. Its kind of an ESP thing.

Thanks for all your valuable info here on the reflector.

Bill
K3WJV

On Thursday, April 26, 2018, 5:25:37 PM EDT, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thank you Mike for mentioning that article.

Yes, adjusting your AGC Threshold and Slope is preferable to running
with AGC off.

Fortunately, the K3/K3S has an adjustable limiter to help protect the
ears for those operators who would still choose to run with AGC off.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/26/2018 4:44 PM, Mike K8CN wrote:

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marvwheeler

Re: CW AGC settings

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

Don:

If I ever meet you I owe you a donut and coffee or if you prefer a steak.

I read the reference to your article regarding the AGC settings on the K3. I
thought I was just living in a very noisy place but after using your article
as a guideline I made some changes as you suggested, including turning on he
attenuator, and I am hearing the weak, weak CW signals well enough to work
them. Before I could tell they were there but was unable to copy. I will be
interesting to see if it helps with Kevin on his CW net next Sunday.

Thanks you very much SIR!

73

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Don Wilhelm

Re: CW AGC settings

Marv,

You are quite welcome.

If any of you do not know what we are referring to, go to my website
www.w3fpr.com and in the left column, click on the "Noisy K3" article.
It will give you guidelines for adjusting the K3/K3S AGC parameters to
better suit your operating preferences. The default settings are OK,
but are not optimum for every operating style and noise environment.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/30/2018 8:24 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Don:
>
>
>
> If I ever meet you I owe you a donut and coffee or if you prefer a steak.
>
>
>
> I read the reference to your article regarding the AGC settings on the K3. I
> thought I was just living in a very noisy place but after using your article
> as a guideline I made some changes as you suggested, including turning on he
> attenuator, and I am hearing the weak, weak CW signals well enough to work
> them. Before I could tell they were there but was unable to copy. I will be
> interesting to see if it helps with Kevin on his CW net next Sunday.
>
>
>
> Thanks you very much SIR!
>
>
>
> 73
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

gm3sek

Re: CW AGC settings

Don W3FPR wrote:
>If any of you do not know what we are referring to, go to my
website
>www.w3fpr.com and in the left column, click on the "Noisy K3"
article.
>It will give you guidelines for adjusting the K3/K3S AGC parameters
to
>better suit your operating preferences. The default settings are
OK,
>but are not optimum for every operating style and noise
environment.

That last sentence is all too true!

For DXers and contesters, maybe it is time to re-post the following
information from 5-6 years ago.

***************

Many DXers and contesters are still using the factory default AGC
settings, completely unaware that their K3/K3S *could* perform so
much better.

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very
low. Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of
THR=5 corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, while many
competing rigs have a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low
AGC threshold is what often allows the AGC to be activated by band
noise.

The factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals above
the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid: the
default settings greatly reduce the differences in the real-life
strengths of incoming signals.

These are differences that DXers and contesters *want* and *need* to
hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about
this so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of
measurements by KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available
range of AGC THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade, May
2012).

After the release of FW v4.51, users began to experiment. The
following is a consensus within the [K3-contesting] Yahoo group
about the most important settings for DXing and contesting [2].

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably
to 12. Then take some time to become accustomed to the wider range
of audio levels.

Repeat: you may need to give the increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. What you became accustomed to with the factory
setting of THR=5 was an artificially restricted range of audio
signal levels, so a higher THR setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - but it is also much closer to real life.

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus
more realistic.

Note: the effects of SLP are partly determined by the THR setting
that you already made (at higher THR levels, SLP has less effect).
So always experiment with THR first, and then adjust SLP as the
second step [1].

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is
especially useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it
unnecessary to turn AGC off."

The changes recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably,
Elecraft has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters aware
that such changes are even *possible*.

It is now 6 years since the v4.51 firmware release notes boasted
that v4.51 "greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other
high-noise or dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set
to 12 or higher". That information is *still* missing from the User
Manual, along with any advice about how to configure the related AGC
settings.

Also the factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were, optimized
for 'comfortable listening' but far from optimum for DXing and
contesting. One has to wonder how many DX QSOs have been lost as a
result...

[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] The [K3-contesting] group served its purpose and then closed
down.

************

73 from Ian GM3SEK

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Bob Wilson, N6TV

Re: CW AGC settings

In reply to this post by Mike K8CN

See also this post which summarizes all the recommended AGC settings on a
single page

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-mush-td7627277.html#a7627323

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 1:44 PM, Mike K8CN <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don, W3FPR wrote a succinct tutorial about AGC settings on his web page
> www.w3fpr.com under the title "Noisy" K3. I had left my AGC settings for
> CW
> contesting at the default values until reading Don's guidance, and once I
> reset the AGC threshold and slope parameters I had much better CW
> contesting
> experiences.
>
> Mike, K8CN
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Bill-4

Re: CW AGC settings

In reply to this post by gm3sek

I stopped collecting and exchanging radios after I purchased my K3.
Hence, this question:

All this talk about AGC settings makes me wonder about the availability
of similar choices on other rigs. Do other rigs offer this amount of
customization? Not just in AGC, but all possible adjustments/settings
that the K3 user can make.

Makes me wonder if any two K3s are set up alike??

Bill W2BLC K-Line

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Don Wilhelm

Re: CW AGC settings

Bill,

I have not seen other radios that offer the same level of customization
as the K3/K3S.
You take the factory defaults and "like it" whether it is optimum for
your environment and operating desires or not.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/2/2018 9:22 AM, Bill wrote:

> I stopped collecting and exchanging radios after I purchased my K3.
> Hence, this question:
>
> All this talk about AGC settings makes me wonder about the availability
> of similar choices on other rigs. Do other rigs offer this amount of
> customization? Not just in AGC, but all possible adjustments/settings
> that the K3 user can make.
>
> Makes me wonder if any two K3s are set up alike??
>
> Bill W2BLC K-Line
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Ted Bryant

Re: CW AGC settings

The Ten Tec Orion/Orion II does.

Ted W4NZ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 9:59 AM
To: Bill; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW AGC settings

Bill,

I have not seen other radios that offer the same level of customization
as the K3/K3S.
You take the factory defaults and "like it" whether it is optimum for
your environment and operating desires or not.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/2/2018 9:22 AM, Bill wrote: