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CW skimmer

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NJ8M

CW skimmer

Is one able to run CW skimmer on a K4. If so what model is best suited for
this the K4 or K4d? Or should i use an RSP2 with out board computer
dedicated to doing skimmer with the skimmer software?
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Don Wilhelm

Re: CW skimmer

Morgan,

The K4 (any version) will not run software apps like Skimmer, you will
need to run that on your shack computer.

While the K4 does contain a processor and a version of an operating
system, it is used for dedicated K4 functions.
I would compare it to my fileserver box which runs on a Linux version.
I can access it via a browser for setup operations, but I cannot load
and run any other applications on it, it is dedicated to performing its
fileserver tasks.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/29/2019 10:33 AM, Morgan Bailey wrote:
> Is one able to run CW skimmer on a K4. If so what model is best suited for
> this the K4 or K4d? Or should i use an RSP2 with out board computer
> dedicated to doing skimmer with the skimmer software?
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wayne burdick

Re: CW skimmer

Administrator

The K4 has sufficient internal horsepower to run advanced software applications; that's one major reason we included a general-purpose processor. However, all third party applications will require modification to run in the K4 environment, and they'll be vetting by our staff before being made available as an in-box app.

While there's no reason we couldn't run Skimmer, I can't say at this time whether we'd choose to port this application to the K4. But I can say the K4 will be continuously updated to meet user needs.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:18 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Morgan,
>
> The K4 (any version) will not run software apps like Skimmer, you will need to run that on your shack computer.
>
> While the K4 does contain a processor and a version of an operating system, it is used for dedicated K4 functions.
> I would compare it to my fileserver box which runs on a Linux version. I can access it via a browser for setup operations, but I cannot load and run any other applications on it, it is dedicated to performing its fileserver tasks.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

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Doug Turnbull

Re: CW skimmer

Wayne, this would be a nice option and one which I would willingly pay a
reasonable price. I hope Elecraft give it serious consideration.
Thanks, Elecraft delivered in time the KPod for which I am grateful and
would not wish to be without.

73 Doug EI2CN

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: 30 December 2019 16:39
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

The K4 has sufficient internal horsepower to run advanced software
applications; that's one major reason we included a general-purpose
processor. However, all third party applications will require modification
to run in the K4 environment, and they'll be vetting by our staff before
being made available as an in-box app.

While there's no reason we couldn't run Skimmer, I can't say at this time
whether we'd choose to port this application to the K4. But I can say the K4
will be continuously updated to meet user needs.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:18 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Morgan,
>
> The K4 (any version) will not run software apps like Skimmer, you will
need to run that on your shack computer.
>
> While the K4 does contain a processor and a version of an operating
system, it is used for dedicated K4 functions.
> I would compare it to my fileserver box which runs on a Linux version. I
can access it via a browser for setup operations, but I cannot load and run
any other applications on it, it is dedicated to performing its fileserver
tasks.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

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Edward H Russell

Re: CW skimmer

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the
best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC
running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with
other information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to
the K4 API. I'm hoping to be able to develop such an app.

Thanks,

73 Ed w2rf

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 11:39 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

The K4 has sufficient internal horsepower to run advanced software
applications; that's one major reason we included a general-purpose
processor. However, all third party applications will require modification
to run in the K4 environment, and they'll be vetting by our staff before
being made available as an in-box app.

While there's no reason we couldn't run Skimmer, I can't say at this time
whether we'd choose to port this application to the K4. But I can say the K4
will be continuously updated to meet user needs.

73,

Wayne

N6KR

> On Dec 29, 2019, at 8:18 AM, Don Wilhelm < <mailto:[hidden email]>
[hidden email]> wrote:

>

> Morgan,

>

> The K4 (any version) will not run software apps like Skimmer, you will
need to run that on your shack computer.

>

> While the K4 does contain a processor and a version of an operating
system, it is used for dedicated K4 functions.

> I would compare it to my fileserver box which runs on a Linux version. I
can access it via a browser for setup operations, but I cannot load and run
any other applications on it, it is dedicated to performing its fileserver
tasks.

>

> 73,

> Don W3FPR

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wayne burdick

Re: CW skimmer

Administrator

This is very much in the plan.

Wayne

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with other information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to the K4 API. I’m hoping to be able to develop such an app.
>
> Thanks,
> 73 Ed w2rf
>
>
>

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: CW skimmer

I would hope that any such app would be ported to Linux and macOS as well, and notnecessarily require Windows 10.
73,
Brandy, N1HO

On Monday, December 30, 2019, 11:52:01 PM EST, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

This is very much in the plan.

Wayne

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with other information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to the K4 API. I’m hoping to be able to develop such an app.
>
> Thanks,
> 73 Ed w2rf
>
>
>

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N4ZR

Re: CW skimmer

Hey, first things first. Windows 10's market share among
non-computer-scientists answers this question for me.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 12/31/2019 8:02 AM, Bayard Coolidge, N1HO via Elecraft wrote:

> I would hope that any such app would be ported to Linux and macOS as well, and notnecessarily require Windows 10.
> 73,
> Brandy, N1HO
>
>
> On Monday, December 30, 2019, 11:52:01 PM EST, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This is very much in the plan.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with other information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to the K4 API. I’m hoping to be able to develop such an app.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> 73 Ed w2rf
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Rich-4

Re: CW skimmer

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

The RTTY skimmer would be nice, also!

HNY

Rich

K3RWN

On 12/30/2019 23:50 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> This is very much in the plan.
>
> Wayne
>
>
>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with other information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to the K4 API. I’m hoping to be able to develop such an app.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> 73 Ed w2rf
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Stephen Shearer

Re: CW skimmer

OK, I am most likely late to the discussion...

Yes, it would be nice to have all the software under the hood. But, I
know I am going to need a computer for Fldigi, wsjt-x, and js8call. So I
might as well add skimmer there (if I want it) too. I don't use skimmer
now. I like contests but I want a slower pace. Beside at my QTH, just
entering a contest almost guarantees first place (not quite, but
almost). I also like keeping my software up to date and by putting it
"in the box" I will loose that control. I "see" a USB connection to the
computer a simple interface. The LAN connection should provide even
more capability (1G ??).

Since my shack computer will not be W10, I hope function software for
the K4 will be Linux compatible (as it has been for K3's). I moved from
W10 to "windows" Mint in 2019 and haven't looked back. I have also been
using a Raspberry Pi with my KX3 for wsjt-x as a remote station (remote
to living room) and it works very well...

I wish all a Happy New Year (as tomorrow is "January"...)

73, steve WB3LGC

back to my research on a computer for the shack as my KX3 portable ops
have been using a laptop and I want the K4 to be a fixed station.
I may continue with the Raspberry Pi, to begin, as it works...

On 12/31/19 9:28 AM, Rich wrote:

> The RTTY skimmer would be nice, also!
>
> HNY
>
> Rich
>
> K3RWN
>
> On 12/30/2019 23:50 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> This is very much in the plan.
>>
>> Wayne
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW
>>> Skimmer, the best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the
>>> K4 IQ data to a PC running Windows, and have a 3rd party app
>>> negotiate that data along with other information such as frequency
>>> to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to the K4 API. I’m hoping to
>>> be able to develop such an app.
>>> Thanks,
>>> 73 Ed w2rf
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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Barry LaZar

Re: CW skimmer

In reply to this post by Rich-4

If Elecraft makes the K4 I&Q data avail in MME format, there will be no
need to implement these on the radio itself. They can all reside on the
computer that is used for control and whatever else. It will be
basically like running with a KX3.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Rich" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: 12/31/2019 9:28:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

>The RTTY skimmer would be nice, also!
>
>HNY
>
>Rich
>
>K3RWN
>
>On 12/30/2019 23:50 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>This is very much in the plan.
>>
>>Wayne
>>
>>
>>>On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:07 PM, E.H. Russell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>As a developer very familiar with connecting SDR radios with CW Skimmer, the best hope for a connection with the K4 is to stream the K4 IQ data to a PC running Windows, and have a 3rd party app negotiate that data along with other information such as frequency to CW Skimmer. This depends on access to the K4 API. I’m hoping to be able to develop such an app.
>>> Thanks,
>>>73 Ed w2rf
>>>
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________________________
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: CW skimmer

Thoughts on this.    I would expect the K4 to be a high performance
product in both the on air performance and the communications interface
performance.   I would not expect it to have any embedded applications
as there are just to dang many; CW ones, Digital, ones, Logging ones,
and etc.   Everybody has there favorites of each of these.

Trying to embed just a few applications raises the question of "what
few?".   We all use an outboard computer to do station house keeping. I
say keep it that way and every one can then use their favorite
application.   I'd speculate if there were a number of applications
embedded, then Elecraft would have to ship a "crying towel" with every
radio. There are just those folks that seemed not to be pleased,
regardless of what ever it is in front of them.   As 'tis said; "one can
please part of the people part of the time and all of the people none of
the time".    Lets just keep the radio doing what a radio should do and
the computer keeping the operator happy with what ever application they
so choose.

Happy New Year to all

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 12/31/2019 10:24 AM, Barry wrote:
> If Elecraft makes the K4 I&Q data avail in MME format, there will be
> no need to implement these on the radio itself. They can all reside on
> the computer that is used for control and whatever else. It will be
> basically like running with a KX3.
>
> 73,
> Barry
> K3NDM
>

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ng7m

Re: CW skimmer

Amen Bob, I totally agree. With an API to the K4 and the I/Q output over
the LAN, applications that are much better at what they do, can interface
and get access to everything they need in the K4. I can't imagine
community support or Elecraft support starting with the question: What
hodgepodge of apps are you running on the embedded linux OS of your K4?
"Well, I'm running a Chromium Browser, a Chess Game, Tetris, a graphical
Rubik's Cube and Spotify for Linux so I can listen to Taylor Swift while
working DX and running stations in a contest." Why do you ask? ;)

To quote a famous software/hardware engineering quote we all love and know:
"Eventually Elecraft will shoot the software engineers and ship the
product". It sounds like it's getting close but I'm happy to wait for the
finishing touches for the first release. Let's worry about running Spotify
on our K4 and listening to Johnny Cash, Megadeath or Metallica while
operating the radio until release #2 of a K4 Linux OS image. However,
maybe Elecraft should support my favorite Financial Market active trader
program so I can get streaming real-time market data quotes on my K4
display and also NASDAQ Level 2 quotes and time and sales data as I try to
play market maker while operating a contest day trading. I think we really
need that as an embedded app running on the K4, don't you? Makes perfect
sense.

Max NG7M

On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 12:22 PM Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Thoughts on this. I would expect the K4 to be a high performance
> product in both the on air performance and the communications interface
> performance. I would not expect it to have any embedded applications
> as there are just to dang many; CW ones, Digital, ones, Logging ones,
> and etc. Everybody has there favorites of each of these.
>
> Trying to embed just a few applications raises the question of "what
> few?". We all use an outboard computer to do station house keeping. I
> say keep it that way and every one can then use their favorite
> application. I'd speculate if there were a number of applications
> embedded, then Elecraft would have to ship a "crying towel" with every
> radio. There are just those folks that seemed not to be pleased,
> regardless of what ever it is in front of them. As 'tis said; "one can
> please part of the people part of the time and all of the people none of
> the time". Lets just keep the radio doing what a radio should do and
> the computer keeping the operator happy with what ever application they
> so choose.
>
> Happy New Year to all
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 12/31/2019 10:24 AM, Barry wrote:
> > If Elecraft makes the K4 I&Q data avail in MME format, there will be
> > no need to implement these on the radio itself. They can all reside on
> > the computer that is used for control and whatever else. It will be
> > basically like running with a KX3.
> >
> > 73,
> > Barry
> > K3NDM
> >
>
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--
M. George
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Ted Roycraft-3

Re: CW skimmer

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Why not ask the author of CWSkimmer, Alex Shovkoplyas, VE3NEA what his
plans are? I would think he would be a central character in making
CWSkimmer compatible with the K4. Wayne, N6KR, has already said that K4
baseband I/Q signals would be provided over the ethernet which is all, I
believe, that VE3NEA needs if he can pick them off the ethernet or if
someone else can write software that makes it look like the I/Q
ethernet signals came from an audio card which is where CWSkimmer
normally picks them up. I would hazard a guess that someone from
Elecraft has already contacted Alex. As long as he has not signed an
NDA with Elecraft, I bet Alex could tell us something concrete and maybe
end the uninformative speculation that's been circulating.

I go along with K4TAX who says keep CWSkimmer on the shack computer.
Putting it on this and that radio is a support nightmare.

73, Ted, W2ZK

On 12/31/2019 2:22 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> Thoughts on this.    I would expect the K4 to be a high performance
> product in both the on air performance and the communications
> interface performance.   I would not expect it to have any embedded
> applications as there are just to dang many; CW ones, Digital, ones,
> Logging ones, and etc.   Everybody has there favorites of each of these.
>
> Trying to embed just a few applications raises the question of "what
> few?".   We all use an outboard computer to do station house keeping.
> I say keep it that way and every one can then use their favorite
> application.   I'd speculate if there were a number of applications
> embedded, then Elecraft would have to ship a "crying towel" with
> every radio. There are just those folks that seemed not to be
> pleased, regardless of what ever it is in front of them.   As 'tis
> said; "one can please part of the people part of the time and all of
> the people none of the time".    Lets just keep the radio doing what a
> radio should do and the computer keeping the operator happy with what
> ever application they so choose.
>
> Happy New Year to all
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 12/31/2019 10:24 AM, Barry wrote:
>> If Elecraft makes the K4 I&Q data avail in MME format, there will be
>> no need to implement these on the radio itself. They can all reside
>> on the computer that is used for control and whatever else. It will
>> be basically like running with a KX3.
>>
>> 73,
>> Barry
>> K3NDM
>>
>
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Mike Markowski-2

Re: CW skimmer vs. i/q

In reply to this post by ng7m

A great analogy is from Keysight. In the lab I work in, scopes and
RTSAs stream i/q. Keysight software named Vector Signal Analysis takes
the i/q and can sometimes provide more capability in signal analysis
than the stand alone gear itself. Tektronix does similar. Raw, binary
i/q is all you need, and I think the Beatles said more or less the same
thing didn't they?? :-) (Assuming love == i/q.)

Happy 2020,
Mike ab3ap

On 12/31/19 2:47 PM, M. George wrote:
> ...With an API to the K4 and the I/Q output over
> the LAN, applications that are much better at what they do...
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Barry LaZar

Re: CW skimmer

In reply to this post by Ted Roycraft-3

If the data is MME format, it should be already compatible as that is
what CW Skimmer uses from a sound card. I see no point in using the
compute power of the K4 for anything other than basic processing. It
should be more efficient and flexible using your computer. For instance
one of the things I do is use Skimmer to spot what it decodes to the
Clublog spotting window on Win4K3. This tells me what my antenna is
picking up. Uing general spotting just tells me what others are hearing
which I may not hear.

73,
Barry
K3NDM

------ Original Message ------
From: "Ted Roycraft" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: 12/31/2019 2:58:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW skimmer

>Why not ask the author of CWSkimmer, Alex Shovkoplyas, VE3NEA what his plans are? I would think he would be a central character in making CWSkimmer compatible with the K4. Wayne, N6KR, has already said that K4 baseband I/Q signals would be provided over the ethernet which is all, I believe, that VE3NEA needs if he can pick them off the ethernet or if someone else can write software that makes it look like the I/Q ethernet signals came from an audio card which is where CWSkimmer normally picks them up. I would hazard a guess that someone from Elecraft has already contacted Alex. As long as he has not signed an NDA with Elecraft, I bet Alex could tell us something concrete and maybe end the uninformative speculation that's been circulating.
>
>I go along with K4TAX who says keep CWSkimmer on the shack computer. Putting it on this and that radio is a support nightmare.
>
>73, Ted, W2ZK
>
>On 12/31/2019 2:22 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>>Thoughts on this. I would expect the K4 to be a high performance product in both the on air performance and the communications interface performance. I would not expect it to have any embedded applications as there are just to dang many; CW ones, Digital, ones, Logging ones, and etc. Everybody has there favorites of each of these.
>>
>>Trying to embed just a few applications raises the question of "what few?". We all use an outboard computer to do station house keeping. I say keep it that way and every one can then use their favorite application. I'd speculate if there were a number of applications embedded, then Elecraft would have to ship a "crying towel" with every radio. There are just those folks that seemed not to be pleased, regardless of what ever it is in front of them. As 'tis said; "one can please part of the people part of the time and all of the people none of the time". Lets just keep the radio doing what a radio should do and the computer keeping the operator happy with what ever application they so choose.
>>
>>Happy New Year to all
>>
>>73
>>
>>Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>>On 12/31/2019 10:24 AM, Barry wrote:
>>>If Elecraft makes the K4 I&Q data avail in MME format, there will be no need to implement these on the radio itself. They can all reside on the computer that is used for control and whatever else. It will be basically like running with a KX3.
>>>
>>>73,
>>>Barry
>>>K3NDM
>>>
>>
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>
>______________________________________________________________
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