Can P3 output to a monitor?
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The DVI standard is deliberately backwards compatible with VGA. The small
grouping of contacts in a DVI connector are intended for analog VGA video signaling. Simple and inexpensive adapters are readily available. Digital visual interfacing (DVI) would quite possibly raise the price of this upcoming option for the P3 considerably. Personally, I like Eric and Wayne's choices of serial communications and VGA video because they're easy to work with and all of my computer gear supports both. Thanks Eric, Wayne, and the 'E' team. Gary N6LRV -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stephen Prior Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 4:53 AM To: [hidden email] Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Monitor output... That's a very good point. My 22" samsung only has a dvi input. Stephen G4SJP ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by ac0h
>> Speaking of big monitors...wouldn't it make more sense for the P3 >> output to be DVI instead of SVGA? Don't most of the larger/higher >> performance monitors have DVI inputs or do they all have both? No, DVI is becoming lost ... most of the newer high performance monitors are now coming out with SVGA (HD15) and HDMI thanks to the TV Tuner market. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 5/14/2011 7:57 PM, R. Kevin Stover wrote: > That would be my suggestion. > Those with SVGA monitors can purchase DVI to SVGA adapters. > > It'll be interesting to see how the guys at Elecraft do it. > Driving a 22" LCD to 1920 x 1050 x 32 takes some horsepower. > The nVidia card in the machine I'm posting on is a couple years old. > The GPU is running at 550Mhz and there's 512 MB of DDR3 memory on board. > It'll do 1920 x 1050 x 32 but only at 50 Hz refresh rate. > > > On Fri, 13 May 2011 22:18:15 -0500 > Gary K9GS<[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Speaking of big monitors...wouldn't it make more sense for the P3 >> output to be DVI instead of SVGA? Don't most of the larger/higher >> performance monitors have DVI inputs or do they all have both? I >> have a pair of 20" monitors on the shack computer currently that I >> believe have both but I don't know if dual inputs is the norm or not?? > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Phillip Lontz
Phil,
The output impedance of the driver is not important as long as it is a low impedance source - and in the KX1 it is low. I don't know about the iThings, but the KX1 will drive amplified speakers (like computer speakers) quite nicely. 73, Don W3FPR On 5/14/2011 3:52 PM, Phil Townsend wrote: > Does anyone know what the output impedance of the KX1 is > AND will it drive those very small speakers that are installed in the iTouch, iPhone or iPad. > I have a stash of the iPads etc that are broken so the speakers are very usable. > > Also does anyone have a KX1 for sale used new built or unbuilt > > Phil > Santa Fe, NM > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Tony Estep
Tony Estep wrote:
>On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Gary K9GS <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> ....a P3 driving a nice big 20 something inch monitor would be the way to >> go.... >> >> I set up a panadaptor display on my computer in parallel with my P3. It >gives a nice big, detailed picture, but I soon scrapped it. Why? Because the >monitor is a step backward from the P3 if it doesn't have point-and-shoot. >There has to be communication between computer and K3. This adds complexity, >software, and another cable. So it's not such a simple task. > I came to the P3 from an SDR-IQ using a 15in second monitor [1], linked to the K3 and N1MMLogger through LP-Bridge. For the moment, the much tighter integration between the P3 and the K3 (particularly the tracking cursors on *both* VFOs) overrides the need to peer at a small screen that is lacking in detail. The 480x272 display of the P3 is pin-sharp and superb for its size, but the fine detail is still a major loss. A 1024x768 display with appropriate sampling provides much clearer information on other stations' signal quality and spectrum occupancy, and it gives the operator a much better understanding of what's happening on the band. With plenty of space for the waterfall, it has extra clarity in two dimensions, both frequency and time. From experience, the more detailed display allows *much* better judgements when choosing a 'clear' frequency. The loss of detail in the P3 has brought back an uncomfortable element of guesswork. Anyone who has used a larger, more detailed panadapter display to choose a clear frequency will know exactly what I mean. Anyone who has only ever viewed seen the band through a P3... well, continue to enjoy; but when the VGA adapter arrives, you'll be due for a big surprise! Elecraft have already promised that the VGA adapter will allow a more detailed display (it won't be simply a block graphics version of the existing screen) and I'm very much looking forward to that. [1] By the way, the 15in display was the *smallest* 1024x768 monitor that I could find. Filling the screen, the panadapter display is just about the right size to take in all the information at a glance. A larger-screen, wide-format monitor looks great from a distance, but the operator soon develops a severe case of swiveling eyeballs :-) -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On 5/15/2011 12:44 AM, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
> I came to the P3 from an SDR-IQ using a 15in second monitor [1], linked > to the K3 and N1MMLogger through LP-Bridge. For the moment, the much > tighter integration between the P3 and the K3 (particularly the tracking > cursors on*both* VFOs) overrides the need to peer at a small screen > that is lacking in detail. Before going too far down the trail about lacking detail, it's important to realize that resolution is also limited by the FFT parameters used to process the complex IF signal and convert it to the frequency display. According to N1AL, here are 468 active FFT bins. I haven't seen numbers for the frequency and time resolution of the FFT process, but the upper limit of frequency resolution is (F2-F1)/468. FWIW, I'm quite happy with the P3 display, and only wish it were smaller (that is, less depth front to rear) with a swiveling bracket to mount it to the underside of a shelf above my rig. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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> According to N1AL, here are 468 active FFT bins.
It's a little more complicated than that. The FFT is actually 1024 points. The digital filter rolls off the edges, so the outer 20% of the points are thrown away. The remaining 800 or so are then interpolated to obtain the 468 display points. I think we'll probably go with a 2048-point FFT for the external display to take advantage of the additional resolution. Alan N1AL On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 08:25 -0700, Jim Brown wrote: > On 5/15/2011 12:44 AM, Ian White GM3SEK wrote: > > I came to the P3 from an SDR-IQ using a 15in second monitor [1], linked > > to the K3 and N1MMLogger through LP-Bridge. For the moment, the much > > tighter integration between the P3 and the K3 (particularly the tracking > > cursors on*both* VFOs) overrides the need to peer at a small screen > > that is lacking in detail. > > Before going too far down the trail about lacking detail, it's important > to realize that resolution is also limited by the FFT parameters used > to process the complex IF signal and convert it to the frequency > display. According to N1AL, here are 468 active FFT bins. I haven't > seen numbers for the frequency and time resolution of the FFT process, > but the upper limit of frequency resolution is (F2-F1)/468. > > FWIW, I'm quite happy with the P3 display, and only wish it were smaller > (that is, less depth front to rear) with a swiveling bracket to mount it > to the underside of a shelf above my rig. > > 73, Jim K9YC > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I am not sure I understand the feature being described. Are you planning on a video output direct to a monitor or are you planning on some kind of interface to a computer for display to a monitor via an application program (I am not sure of the performance demands for this though).
73, phil, K7PEH On May 15, 2011, at 9:05 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: >> According to N1AL, here are 468 active FFT bins. > > It's a little more complicated than that. The FFT is actually 1024 > points. The digital filter rolls off the edges, so the outer 20% of the > points are thrown away. The remaining 800 or so are then interpolated > to obtain the 468 display points. > > I think we'll probably go with a 2048-point FFT for the external display > to take advantage of the additional resolution. > > Alan N1AL > > > On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 08:25 -0700, Jim Brown wrote: >> On 5/15/2011 12:44 AM, Ian White GM3SEK wrote: >>> I came to the P3 from an SDR-IQ using a 15in second monitor [1], linked >>> to the K3 and N1MMLogger through LP-Bridge. For the moment, the much >>> tighter integration between the P3 and the K3 (particularly the tracking >>> cursors on*both* VFOs) overrides the need to peer at a small screen >>> that is lacking in detail. >> >> Before going too far down the trail about lacking detail, it's important >> to realize that resolution is also limited by the FFT parameters used >> to process the complex IF signal and convert it to the frequency >> display. According to N1AL, here are 468 active FFT bins. I haven't >> seen numbers for the frequency and time resolution of the FFT process, >> but the upper limit of frequency resolution is (F2-F1)/468. >> >> FWIW, I'm quite happy with the P3 display, and only wish it were smaller >> (that is, less depth front to rear) with a swiveling bracket to mount it >> to the underside of a shelf above my rig. >> >> 73, Jim K9YC >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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>From what I'm reading here there will be no computer in the formula. Am I right Alan? 73, Tom Amateur Radio Operator N5GE On Sun, 15 May 2011 09:24:17 -0700, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote: >I am not sure I understand the feature being described. Are you planning on a video output direct to a monitor or are you planning on some kind of interface to a computer for display to a monitor via an application program (I am not sure of the performance demands for this though). > >73, phil, K7PEH > [snip] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
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Right, no computer will be required. You'll just plug a VGA monitor
into the connector on the back of the P3. Alan N1AL On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 13:29 -0500, [hidden email] wrote: > > >From what I'm reading here there will be no computer in the formula. > Am I right Alan? > > 73, > Tom > Amateur Radio Operator N5GE > > > On Sun, 15 May 2011 09:24:17 -0700, Phil Hystad <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >I am not sure I understand the feature being described. Are you planning on a video output direct to a monitor or are you planning on some kind of interface to a computer for display to a monitor via an application program (I am not sure of the performance demands for this though). > > > >73, phil, K7PEH > > > [snip] > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Right, no computer will be required. You'll just plug a VGA monitor > into the connector on the back of the P3. Since we are in question answering mode, will you be able to switch between just monitor, just P3, and both? -aps ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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That would certainly seem reasonable.
Alan N1AL On Sun, 2011-05-15 at 18:05 -0400, Alexander Sack wrote: > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Right, no computer will be required. You'll just plug a VGA monitor > > into the connector on the back of the P3. > > Since we are in question answering mode, will you be able to switch > between just monitor, just P3, and both? > > -aps > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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>> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Alan Bloom <[hidden email]> wrote: >> > Right, no computer will be required. You'll just plug a VGA monitor >> > into the connector on the back of the P3. >> >> Since we are in question answering mode, will you be able to switch >> between just monitor, just P3, and both? >> >That would certainly seem reasonable. > >Alan N1AL > Many thanks for the updates on the resolution issue, Alan. 2048 real FFT points interpolated to 1024 (or more) horizontal pixels will be a significant improvement in frequency resolution. However, the increase in vertical (time) resolution should be even more dramatic. With only 272 vertical pixels, some of which have to be used for the spectrum display and for scales and labels, the P3's waterfall display struggles to represent brief transients like key clicks, electric fences and other forms of QRN. With 768 (or more) vertical pixels rather than 272, these transients should all become clearly visible. Having a dual-monitor PC display but no space for a third large screen, I will probably switch the second (15in) monitor between the P3 and the radio PC as required, while keeping the P3 display active as well. Thinking about that, the button labels will not be useful on the larger display, so will it be possible to show those on the P3 only? -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On 5/16/2011 12:50 AM, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
> However, the increase in vertical (time) resolution should be even more > dramatic. Thanks to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, the product of the frequency resolution and the time resolution of ANY measurement is unity. The frequency resolution in Hz Fr is 1/Tr, the time resolution in seconds. Tr = 1/Fr. Fr and Tr are established by the FFT parameters, and further modified by the filter parameters. The display cannot improve on what the FFT has produced. Another way of saying it is that we cannot know infinitely about frequency AND time in any given measurement. If we want high precision of frequency (and bandwidth of a signal) we must sacrifice accuracy of WHEN the signal was on that frequency. In the world where I have worked professionally for 40 years, we bumped up against this around 1980 when we began using Time Delay Spectrometry (a measurement system that uses a swept oscillator and a swept detector and an FFT to display the result), to measure audio systems, equipment, transducers, and room acoustics. The uncertainty principle applies no matter HOW the measurement was made -- swept or FFT or some guy staring at a meter. In the case of swept measurements, resolution is determined by the sweep rate and the bandwidth of the detector. 73, Jim Brown K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Actually, Heisenberg's uncertainty principal had to do with trying to
determine the position and velocity of an electron through observation. Since, in order to observe the electron one would have to bounce a photon off of it, the act of observation (e.g. hitting it with a photon) would change its position or velocity making the observation invalid since the electron is no longer traveling as it was prior to the observation. I later postulated that Heisenberg's uncertainty principal applied to people being observed. For example, when people knew they were being observed through a one-way mirror, their behavior was different than it would have been had they not been aware they were being observed. Rob K6RB > On 5/16/2011 12:50 AM, Ian White GM3SEK wrote: >> However, the increase in vertical (time) resolution should be even more >> dramatic. > > Thanks to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, the product of the > frequency resolution and the time resolution of ANY measurement is > unity. The frequency resolution in Hz Fr is 1/Tr, the time resolution in > seconds. Tr = 1/Fr. Fr and Tr are established by the FFT parameters, > and further modified by the filter parameters. The display cannot > improve on what the FFT has produced. Another way of saying it is that > we cannot know infinitely about frequency AND time in any given > measurement. If we want high precision of frequency (and bandwidth of a > signal) we must sacrifice accuracy of WHEN the signal was on that > frequency. > > In the world where I have worked professionally for 40 years, we bumped > up against this around 1980 when we began using Time Delay Spectrometry > (a measurement system that uses a swept oscillator and a swept detector > and an FFT to display the result), to measure audio systems, equipment, > transducers, and room acoustics. The uncertainty principle applies no > matter HOW the measurement was made -- swept or FFT or some guy staring > at a meter. In the case of swept measurements, resolution is determined > by the sweep rate and the bandwidth of the detector. > > 73, Jim Brown K9YC > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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True of electrons, and other subatomic particles as well. For those who wish
to delve into quantum mechanics and find out what the uncertainty principle actually deals with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 12:21 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote: > Actually, Heisenberg's uncertainty principal had to do with trying to > determine the position and velocity of an electron.... ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by k6rb
On 5/16/2011 10:21 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> Actually, Heisenberg's uncertainty principal had to do with trying to > determine the position and velocity of an electron through observation. There are many corollaries to the uncertainty principle. Another is that it is impossible to measure a system without disturbing it. Many examples. You place a voltmeter across a circuit, it draws some current, which changes the voltage. You want to know the temperature in a closed space, you open the door to measure it and the temperature changes. Or the presence of the thermometer changes the thermal mass slightly. And so on. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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The amount of uncertainty is not large: specifically, it is 1/2 the reduced
Planck constant, which is 1.05×10-34 Joule-seconds. It probably wouldn't be too noticeable in a panadaptor. Tony KT0NY On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]>wrote: > On 5/16/2011 10:21 AM, [hidden email] wrote: > > There are many corollaries to the uncertainty principle.... ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by k6rb
It seems like I learn something every day from this list. I've always
thought the Uncertainty Principle referred to the uncertainty I always seem to have about whether or not the DXpedition Op actually got my call right ... 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org "Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted." Jimmy John On 5/16/2011 10:21 AM, [hidden email] wrote: > Actually, Heisenberg's uncertainty principal had to do with trying to > determine the position and velocity of an electron through observation. > Since, in order to observe the electron one would have to bounce a photon > off of it, the act of observation (e.g. hitting it with a photon) would > change its position or velocity making the observation invalid since the > electron is no longer traveling as it was prior to the observation. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
These aren't 'corollaries' to Heisenberg's principle, exactly. They are just things that
remind one of it! On 5/16/2011 2:24 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > On 5/16/2011 10:21 AM, [hidden email] wrote: >> Actually, Heisenberg's uncertainty principal had to do with trying to >> determine the position and velocity of an electron through observation. > > There are many corollaries to the uncertainty principle. Another is that > it is impossible to measure a system without disturbing it. Many > examples. You place a voltmeter across a circuit, it draws some current, > which changes the voltage. You want to know the temperature in a closed > space, you open the door to measure it and the temperature changes. Or > the presence of the thermometer changes the thermal mass slightly. And > so on. > > 73, Jim K9YC -- Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Tony Estep
On 5/16/2011 10:35 AM, Tony Estep wrote:
> True of electrons, and other subatomic particles as well. For those who wish > to delve into quantum mechanics and find out what the uncertainty principle > actually deals with: If you read a bit further down in Wikipedia with respect to the uncertainty principle you will find the following: = = = = = = In the context of signal processing <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_processing>, particularly time--frequency analysis <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time%E2%80%93frequency_analysis>, uncertainty principles are referred to as the *Gabor limit*, after Dennis Gabor <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Gabor>, or sometimes the /Heisenberg--Gabor limit./ The basic result, which follows from Benedicks's theorem, below, is that a function cannot be both time limited <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_limited> and band limited <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band_limited> (a function and its Fourier transform cannot both have bounded domain) -- see bandlimited versus timelimited <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_limited#Bandlimited_versus_timelimited>. Stated alternatively, "one cannot simultaneously localize a signal (function) in both the time domain <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_domain> (/f/) and frequency domain <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_domain> (Fourier transform)". When applied to filters, the result is that one cannot achieve high temporal resolution and frequency resolution at the same time; a concrete example are the resolution issues of the short-time Fourier transform <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-time_Fourier_transform#Resolution_issues> -- if one uses a wide window, one achieves good frequency resolution at the cost of temporal resolution, while a narrow window has the opposite trade-off. = = = = = = 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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