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Cleaning a K3

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Bill Frantz

Cleaning a K3

My K3 (and P3) were used in a very dusty environment in eastern
Nevada. Some people there compared the dust levels to those at
burning man. Does anyone have any advice about cleaning the equipment?

73 Bill AE6JV

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | Re: Computer reliability, performance, and security:
408-356-8506 | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is
*not* the
www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground. - Terence Kelly

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Vic Rosenthal

Re: Cleaning a K3

I always cleaned computers (I worked for an agricultural software
company and some of our customers' computers could have had crops
planted in them) with a reverse-connected vacuum cleaner to blow the
dust out. This must be done outdoors, of course!
You need to be careful not to spin fans with the air because it's
possible to damage bearings with excessive RPM.

73,
Vic, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 27 Jul 2016 10:07, Bill Frantz wrote:
> My K3 (and P3) were used in a very dusty environment in eastern
> Nevada. Some people there compared the dust levels to those at burning
> man. Does anyone have any advice about cleaning the equipment?
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>

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Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS

Re: Cleaning a K3

This post was updated on .

Hi Bill,

the same what suggested Vic, the pressed air gun (like reverse-connected vacuum cleaner tool) to blow the dust out I am using in our company for rough cleaning of the testing equipment time to time.

Important thing is to protect fans (as Vic mentioned too) from the over-spining.

After that when the dust is roughly out I am repeating this step again on different place (if you did not do it outside for the first time) to blow out again settled residual dust from the all boards.

After all of these steps I am removing the boards one by one and cleaning the pins and all contact with Isopropyl on the cleaning pad. It takes time but it will surely pay!

In any case during all of that cleaning procedure I am protecting all LCD displays and screens with covers (adhesive paper tape) in order to avoid getting the dust in/under the plastic covers, glass screens etc. by the high pressed air gun...

Hope it helps,

73 - Petr, OK1RP

73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt

Richard Fjeld-2

Re: Cleaning a K3

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

Be careful if using a vacuum cleaner. A static build-up can develop. I
have seen it cause arcing. That may have been a hose with metal fittings.
There is also a metal spring inside the hose that can conduct. Perhaps
an attachment with a brush for the hose will avoid a discharge.

Dick, n0ce

On 7/27/2016 2:07 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:

> My K3 (and P3) were used in a very dusty environment in eastern
> Nevada. Some people there compared the dust levels to those at burning
> man. Does anyone have any advice about cleaning the equipment?
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Bill Frantz | Re: Computer reliability, performance, and security:
> 408-356-8506 | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is *not* the
> www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground. - Terence Kelly
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--
In this dedication of a Nation we humbly ask the blessing of God.
May He protect each and every one of us. May He guide me in the days to come.
(From Franklin Delano Rosevelt's inaugural address 3/4/33)

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Clay Autery

Re: Cleaning a K3

Cleaning a REALLY dusty unit is always better to VACUUM with a static
protected unit with a HEPA filter FIRST... Then, blow out what you
can't reach with a vacuum second (outside), preferably with the chassis
completely open.

NOT recommending this because it requires a great deal of
care/experience, but I, as my OCD dictates, also clean individual
circuit boards with 99% alcohol followed by hot water. Water is bad
juju in the wrong places and you absolutely MUST make sure that it is
all removed (I use elevated temps in a low humidity environment) prior
to reinstallation.

Just depends on how much time/energy you want to put into it and you
level of care.

73,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 7/27/2016 8:56 AM, Richard Fjeld wrote:

> Be careful if using a vacuum cleaner. A static build-up can develop.
> I have seen it cause arcing. That may have been a hose with metal
> fittings.
> There is also a metal spring inside the hose that can conduct. Perhaps
> an attachment with a brush for the hose will avoid a discharge.
>
> Dick, n0ce
>
>
> On 7/27/2016 2:07 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:
>> My K3 (and P3) were used in a very dusty environment in eastern
>> Nevada. Some people there compared the dust levels to those at
>> burning man. Does anyone have any advice about cleaning the equipment?
>>
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Bill Frantz | Re: Computer reliability, performance, and
>> security:
>> 408-356-8506 | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is *not* the
>> www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground. - Terence Kelly
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

k6dgw

Re: Cleaning a K3

My S3-line acquired a chronic case of creeping fungus on the chassis
while packed up and stored in the Philippines for 4 years. Returning
home, I took it to the DIY car wash a couple of times and then dried it
in the sun. Seemed to work really well, except for the fungi living in
the IF cans. YMMV, I won't be doing that to my K3 however.

I'd be real wary of any kind of solvent(s), circuit boards used to be
washed with distilled water, maybe still are. Here in No NV, our
humidity runs in the single digits in the summer, things dry in the sun
very fast.

73,

Fred K6DGW
Sparks NV
Washoe County DM09dn

On 7/27/2016 9:16 AM, Clay Autery wrote:

> NOT recommending this because it requires a great deal of
> care/experience, but I, as my OCD dictates, also clean individual
> circuit boards with 99% alcohol followed by hot water. Water is bad
> juju in the wrong places and you absolutely MUST make sure that it is
> all removed (I use elevated temps in a low humidity environment) prior
> to reinstallation.

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Clay Autery

Re: Cleaning a K3

99% Isopropyl alcohol is the approved solvent for getting flux, et al
off boards... It evaps rapidly and is water soluble...

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 7/27/2016 1:15 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> My S3-line acquired a chronic case of creeping fungus on the chassis
> while packed up and stored in the Philippines for 4 years. Returning
> home, I took it to the DIY car wash a couple of times and then dried
> it in the sun. Seemed to work really well, except for the fungi
> living in the IF cans. YMMV, I won't be doing that to my K3 however.
>
> I'd be real wary of any kind of solvent(s), circuit boards used to be
> washed with distilled water, maybe still are. Here in No NV, our
> humidity runs in the single digits in the summer, things dry in the
> sun very fast.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred K6DGW
> Sparks NV
> Washoe County DM09dn
>
> On 7/27/2016 9:16 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
>
>> NOT recommending this because it requires a great deal of
>> care/experience, but I, as my OCD dictates, also clean individual
>> circuit boards with 99% alcohol followed by hot water. Water is bad
>> juju in the wrong places and you absolutely MUST make sure that it is
>> all removed (I use elevated temps in a low humidity environment) prior
>> to reinstallation.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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John Severyn

Re: Cleaning a K3

In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld-2

I will second Dick's caution of using any high pressure air or gas. The
high flow rates can cause static charge buildup on higher impedance
parts, causing over-voltage failures. Keep the flow rate and pressure
low....do not use an air compressor hose. The static buildup can happen
no matter if the hose is conductive or insulating. The flow of air over
the component leads generates a static charge.

John AF6QO

On 7/27/2016 6:56 AM, Richard Fjeld wrote:

Russ-2

Re: Cleaning a K3

If you are going to use a compressor, use a moisture/condensate trap like you would use with a paint spray gun.
Those air tanks get full of water. And yes, of course keep the pressure way down!!

Russ KD4JO

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John Severyn
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 3:16 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Cleaning a K3

I will second Dick's caution of using any high pressure air or gas. The high flow rates can cause static charge buildup on higher impedance parts, causing over-voltage failures. Keep the flow rate and pressure low....do not use an air compressor hose. The static buildup can happen no matter if the hose is conductive or insulating. The flow of air over the component leads generates a static charge.

John AF6QO

On 7/27/2016 6:56 AM, Richard Fjeld wrote:

> Be careful if using a vacuum cleaner. A static build-up can develop.
> I have seen it cause arcing. That may have been a hose with metal
> fittings.
> There is also a metal spring inside the hose that can conduct. Perhaps
> an attachment with a brush for the hose will avoid a discharge.
>
> Dick, n0ce
>
>
> On 7/27/2016 2:07 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:
>> My K3 (and P3) were used in a very dusty environment in eastern
>> Nevada. Some people there compared the dust levels to those at
>> burning man. Does anyone have any advice about cleaning the equipment?
>>
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------
>>
>> Bill Frantz | Re: Computer reliability, performance, and
>> security:
>> 408-356-8506 | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is *not* the
>> www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground. - Terence Kelly
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]
>

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Josh Fiden

Re: Cleaning a K3

In reply to this post by k6dgw

DI water is the standard, usually in a closed loop system. Most process
now use water soluble flux. If not, sometimes a wash with addition of
soap and/or solvent is done prior to the DI water rinsing.

73,
Josh W6XU

On 7/27/2016 11:15 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> circuit boards used to be washed with distilled water, maybe still are.

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: Cleaning a K3

In a production environment, acid flux is almost universal. Rosin flux
requires solvents and the local air pollution cops watch you very
closely. The solvents are more likely to damage components than water.

A proper wave soldering system does a great job of displacing the flux,
and water cleans the acid off very nicely.

73 -- Lynn

On 7/27/2016 12:26 PM, Josh Fiden wrote:
> DI water is the standard, usually in a closed loop system. Most
> process now use water soluble flux. If not, sometimes a wash with
> addition of soap and/or solvent is done prior to the DI water rinsing.
>
> 73,
> Josh W6XU

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Gary K9GS

Re: Cleaning a K3

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

Josh is exactly correct, DI is the standard. Surfactants are sometimes added to increase the wetting on the board and reduce the surface tension.
I think that distilled water, under the right conditions is actually corrosive.

73Gary K9GS

-------- Original message --------
From: Josh Fiden <[hidden email]>
Date: 07/27/2016 2:26 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Cleaning a K3

DI water is the standard, usually in a closed loop system. Most process
now use water soluble flux. If not, sometimes a wash with addition of
soap and/or solvent is done prior to the DI water rinsing.

73,
Josh W6XU

On 7/27/2016 11:15 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> circuit boards used to be washed with distilled water, maybe still are.

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Gary K9GS

Re: Cleaning a K3

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

Be careful using isopropyl alcohol. You don't want the dissolved Flux flowing inside switches and under components. Then the alcohol evaporates and the Flux stays inside. .not good.
This is why the industry has largely switched to no clean flux. Just leave it alone.
Of course you have to know what you're using.

73Gary K9GS

-------- Original message --------
From: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
Date: 07/27/2016 1:18 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Cleaning a K3

99% Isopropyl alcohol is the approved solvent for getting flux, et al
off boards... It evaps rapidly and is water soluble...

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 7/27/2016 1:15 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

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Clay Autery

Re: Cleaning a K3

As I originally said, "NOT recommending this because it requires a great
deal of

care/experience"...

I use 99% Iso. Alcohol when necessary. And I'm not saying to flood the board with it. Also not saying to get it near enclosed components... One should use proper instruments and care when utilizing ANY solvent, TO INCLUDE water... which BTW, is the "universal solvent".

73,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 7/27/2016 3:50 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:

>
> Be careful using isopropyl alcohol. You don't want the dissolved Flux flowing inside switches and under components. Then the alcohol evaporates and the Flux stays inside. .not good.
> This is why the industry has largely switched to no clean flux. Just leave it alone.
> Of course you have to know what you're using.
>
>
>
>
> 73Gary K9GS
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Clay Autery <[hidden email]>
> Date: 07/27/2016 1:18 PM (GMT-06:00)
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Cleaning a K3
>
> 99% Isopropyl alcohol is the approved solvent for getting flux, et al
> off boards... It evaps rapidly and is water soluble...
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
>
> On 7/27/2016 1:15 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>> My S3-line acquired a chronic case of creeping fungus on the chassis
>> while packed up and stored in the Philippines for 4 years. Returning
>> home, I took it to the DIY car wash a couple of times and then dried
>> it in the sun. Seemed to work really well, except for the fungi
>> living in the IF cans. YMMV, I won't be doing that to my K3 however.
>>
>> I'd be real wary of any kind of solvent(s), circuit boards used to be
>> washed with distilled water, maybe still are. Here in No NV, our
>> humidity runs in the single digits in the summer, things dry in the
>> sun very fast.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Fred K6DGW
>> Sparks NV
>> Washoe County DM09dn
>>
>> On 7/27/2016 9:16 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
>>
>>> NOT recommending this because it requires a great deal of
>>> care/experience, but I, as my OCD dictates, also clean individual
>>> circuit boards with 99% alcohol followed by hot water. Water is bad
>>> juju in the wrong places and you absolutely MUST make sure that it is
>>> all removed (I use elevated temps in a low humidity environment) prior
>>> to reinstallation.

Don Wilhelm

Re: Cleaning a K3

You may want to note that Elecraft does not recommend cleaning flux at all.
Those working in support and repair for the thru-hole legacy line may
see a board we have to work on that is so covered with flux residue that
it has to be removed.
Even then, we work with cotton swabs in a small area at a time with 99%
iso alcohol.

I once had a K1 repair which had failed because the builder used
something for a flux cleaner. The residue had crept under the ICs,
R-Paks, other components and the connectors. After an extended repair
time, it worked, but I heard a report about a year later that it stopped
working again - I guess I did not remove enough components to clean
under them!

Rosin Flux is better left in place, it is non-conductive if let alone -
but when attempts to remove the flux are used, the flux and cleaner will
produce conductive paths - so if you do remove flux, remove it and its
residue completely or you are likely to have trouble later.

Use a solder with a mildly reactive rosin flux, Kester 285 is one of
those. It does not leave much flux residue and does not need to be
cleaned. Highly reactive flux solder (like the popular Kester 44) does
leave a good deal of flux, but it too usually does not need to be cleaned.

We have morphed the original question - which was about cleaning a K3
(of dust and dirt mainly), so further responses should change the
subject line to something like 'cleaning flux from boards'.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/27/2016 5:11 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
> As I originally said, "NOT recommending this because it requires a great
> deal of
>
> care/experience"...
>
> I use 99% Iso. Alcohol when necessary. And I'm not saying to flood the board with it. Also not saying to get it near enclosed components... One should use proper instruments and care when utilizing ANY solvent, TO INCLUDE water... which BTW, is the "universal solvent".
>
>

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Wes Stewart-2

Re: Cleaning a K3

In reply to this post by Clay Autery

I remember the good old days when it was rosin flux and Freon TF in a vapor
degreaser :-)

Then my employer (Hughes) invented "lemon juice" flux as we called it, and gave
away the patent.

On 7/27/2016 2:11 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
> As I originally said, "NOT recommending this because it requires a great
> deal of
>
> care/experience"...
>
> I use 99% Iso. Alcohol when necessary. And I'm not saying to flood the board with it. Also not saying to get it near enclosed components... One should use proper instruments and care when utilizing ANY solvent, TO INCLUDE water... which BTW, is the "universal solvent".
>
> 73,
>

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Richard Fjeld-2

Re: Cleaning a K3

In reply to this post by k6dgw

I read about guys whose rigs were flooded a few years back, and they
washed them in water and dried them somehow. Said they worked fine
after that. Hard to imagine though.

Dick, n0ce

On 7/27/2016 1:15 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Cleaning a K3

Administrator

Looks like we have beaten this one to death. ;-) Time to end the thread.

In general, please self moderate (limiting the number of posts on a topic) and
do not wait for me to jump in, as I can get busy or may be out of town when
these long threads occur.

73,

Eric
Moderator (hopefully not for life!)
/elecraft.com/
===

On 7/27/2016 5:07 PM, Richard Fjeld wrote:
> I read about guys whose rigs were flooded a few years back, and they washed
> them in water and dried them somehow. Said they worked fine after that. Hard
> to imagine though.
>
> Dick, n0ce

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Don Wilhelm

Re: Cleaning a K3

In reply to this post by Richard Fjeld-2

Dick,

That was possible, and done commonly back in the old days of vacuum tube
gear with open inductors and not too much else to be harmed by the water
(once dried out), it worked just fine as long as lubricants were added
to things like capacitor shafts after the 'washing'.
Today with ICs mounted to PC boards, and shielded inductors and other
components that will not dry out readily, I do not recommend "washing"
the PC boards.

A cleaning with air may be helpful if there is a significant dust
accumulation - I recently did that with my computer and it was
successful - the computer was shutting down due to temperature.

You may have to think of your K3 more like a computer if you consider
the various cleaning methods. Use some common sense. Heat sinks can be
washed if you take care to keep any attached electronics away from the
water - thoughts like that can be beneficial when contemplating a
"cleaning".

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/27/2016 8:07 PM, Richard Fjeld wrote:

> I read about guys whose rigs were flooded a few years back, and they
> washed them in water and dried them somehow. Said they worked fine
> after that. Hard to imagine though.
>
> Dick, n0ce
>
>
> On 7/27/2016 1:15 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>> My S3-line acquired a chronic case of creeping fungus on the chassis
>> while packed up and stored in the Philippines for 4 years. Returning
>> home, I took it to the DIY car wash a couple of times and then dried
>> it in the sun. Seemed to work really well, except for the fungi
>> living in the IF cans. YMMV, I won't be doing that to my K3 however.
>>
>> I'd be real wary of any kind of solvent(s), circuit boards used to be
>> washed with distilled water, maybe still are. Here in No NV, our
>> humidity runs in the single digits in the summer, things dry in the
>> sun very fast.
>>