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Confessions of grounding

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Leroy Buller

Confessions of grounding

Ok, I just rebuilt my station and wonder how many of you actually ground
your K3 or your rig? I have the amp and tuner grounded, but I find
grounding the K3 somewhat difficult. Why? Getting my fat ham fingers to
the rear if the rig and tighting up the knurled knob with stiff wire is
quite infuriating. All the connecting cables are in the way and it just
trips my trigger. Then being able to reach over all the doodads and
geegaws to attach ground is a frustration of mine. Many years ago it was
good practice to use solid wire but now i see others using braid. Stiff
wire adds to my frustration. So, for my mental health I would like some
suggestions or ideas how best to deal with this. I know...suck it up.
There has got to be a better way.

Lee K0WA
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Confessions of grounding

I bond each piece of equipment to a common ground terminal on my power
supply. I do not have any ground from the station to the outside. Only
the 3rd pin safety ground is in place. The station is fed from a
common 240V 4 wire service for the amp and other related equipment.
From the 240V 4 wire service, I break off with 2 duplex outlets on each
line side. Thus the neutral and safety ground are common for the station.

All efforts toward lightning protection are implemented outside of the
house. This includes a driven ground system at the base of the tower
next to the house and it is bonded outside of the house to the AC Mains
ground. The lightning rod system on the roof is also bonded to the AC
Mains ground.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 10/12/2018 11:47 AM, Leroy Buller wrote:

> Ok, I just rebuilt my station and wonder how many of you actually ground
> your K3 or your rig? I have the amp and tuner grounded, but I find
> grounding the K3 somewhat difficult. Why? Getting my fat ham fingers to
> the rear if the rig and tighting up the knurled knob with stiff wire is
> quite infuriating. All the connecting cables are in the way and it just
> trips my trigger. Then being able to reach over all the doodads and
> geegaws to attach ground is a frustration of mine. Many years ago it was
> good practice to use solid wire but now i see others using braid. Stiff
> wire adds to my frustration. So, for my mental health I would like some
> suggestions or ideas how best to deal with this. I know...suck it up.
> There has got to be a better way.
>
> Lee K0WA
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>

Buck

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

I added two large washers over the post. Makes it easier to sandwich the
ground braid between them. Poke a hole in the braid to go over the post.

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018, 12:49 PM Leroy Buller <[hidden email]> wrote:

N7US

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

I use braided copper strap, and my operating desk is about 2' away from the wall, so I can walk behind it.

Jim N7US
Sent from Samsung tablet
-------- Original message --------From: Leroy Buller <[hidden email]> Date: 10/12/18 11:47 AM (GMT-06:00) To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] Confessions of grounding
Ok, I just rebuilt my station and wonder how many of you actually ground
your K3 or your rig? I have the amp and tuner grounded, but I find
grounding the K3 somewhat difficult. Why? Getting my fat ham fingers to
the rear if the rig and tighting up the knurled knob with stiff wire is
quite infuriating. All the connecting cables are in the way and it just
trips my trigger. Then being able to reach over all the doodads and
geegaws to attach ground is a frustration of mine. Many years ago it was
good practice to use solid wire but now i see others using braid. Stiff
wire adds to my frustration. So, for my mental health I would like some
suggestions or ideas how best to deal with this. I know...suck it up.
There has got to be a better way.

Lee K0WA
______________________________________________________________

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Wes Stewart-2

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

I use a 14 AWG insulated stranded wire with a spade lug on it for the K3 side.
The other end is bolted to a clamp on the EMT that carries the AC service into
the shack. As far as I'm concerned this is just a safety ground, not something
worthy of an RF ground. All of the other gear is similarly grounded to the same
clamp. Worrywarts will wring their hands over ground loops, RF in the shack,
install hundreds of dollars worth of ferrite, etc. None of that here. Forget
about using braid.

Wes N7WS

.

On 10/12/2018 9:47 AM, Leroy Buller wrote:

Jim Brown-10

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

On 10/12/2018 10:02 AM, Jim McDonald wrote:
> I use braided copper strap, and my operating desk is about 2' away from the wall, so I can walk behind it.

I wish I had done that when I set up my shack in the home I bought when
I moved to California.

On 10/12/2018 9:47 AM, Leroy Buller wrote:
> There has got to be a better way.

I make short jumpers (an inch or two) with a lug on one end and a Power
Pole on the other. I then make Power Pole jumpers from there to
multi-way Power Pole connector blocks, as well as home brew Power Pole
paralleling junctions that tie my gear to the house ground system. I
often take one or more my rigs to the field for Field Day, the 7th area
QSO Party, and the California QSO Party. Having that short Power Pole
jumper on the back of the K3 really helps.

On 10/12/2018 9:54 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> I bond each piece of equipment to a common ground terminal on my power
> supply. I do not have any ground from the station to the outside.
> Only the 3rd pin safety ground is in place.

Most authorities advise that MORE bonding is best. The fundamental
principle is to have the potential of everything in your home rise to as
close as possible to the same potential in the event of a strike. At
the very least, I would add serious bonds between your operating desk,
antenna entry panel, and your exterior collection of ground rods, making
them as short as possible. The lack of that bonding has the potential
for a strike generating a very high potential between your operating
desk and antenna system. N0AX addresses this in his recent ARRL book on
Grounding and Bonding.

> The station is fed from a common 240V 4 wire service for the amp and
> other related equipment. From the 240V 4 wire service, I break off
> with 2 duplex outlets on each line side. Thus the neutral and safety
> ground are common for the station.

That's great.

>
> All efforts toward lightning protection are implemented outside of the
> house. This includes a driven ground system at the base of the tower
> next to the house and it is bonded outside of the house to the AC
> Mains ground. The lightning rod system on the roof is also bonded to
> the AC Mains ground.

How far are the AC entry and your tower from your shack? If they're
very close, that's fine. If not, I'd strongly consider a perimeter
ground, as described in N0AX's book. I've implemented a perimeter ground
halfway around the building that houses my shack from the panel to the
antenna entry panel, with ground rods at four points around that
perimeter and four more outside the shack. There's a bond from there to
the antenna panel, and from the panel to the steel conduit (EMT that
carries AC wiring from the shack to the AC panel.

On 10/12/2018 10:31 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:
> As far as I'm concerned this is just a safety ground, not something
> worthy of an RF ground.

What's an RF ground? :) And lightning is both a DC event and an RF event.

> All of the other gear is similarly grounded to the same clamp.
> Worrywarts will wring their hands over ground loops, RF in the shack,
> install hundreds of dollars worth of ferrite, etc. None of that here.

Depending on how close your shack is to your antennas, ferrite cores can
be needed on cables like those from computers to video monitors and
monitors to their power supplies to kill RX noise. And until I replaced
the power supply for my SteppIR controller with a home brew regulated
33V supply, 15, 12, and 10M bands were unusable, and no amount of
ferrite would kill the noise! But like you, I use no ferrite cores on
anything in the RF or audio path -- all that is solved by bonding ALL
the interconnected gear, including the computer.

73, Jim K9YC

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NK7Z

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

Hi Lee,

When I got my K3 I rebuilt my shack from teh ground up, starting with
the ground, with an eye to reduction of RFI. I took a lot of Jim's,
suggestions, and I lost about 2 S units of noise. That process is
detailed here:

https://www.nk7z.net/rebuilding-the-shack/

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z/NNR0DC)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 10/12/18 9:47 AM, Leroy Buller wrote:

Gary Smith-2

Re: Confessions of grounding

I too have paid attention to Jim, K9YC's
advice. Nobody knows it all but he's
proven to know enough to be an authority
on the subject so I listen to what he has
to say.

To that end, I have put in a lot of effort
to have the Antennas, roof tripod and
breaker box tied together with #4 solid
copper wire. Antennas & Rx antennas are
connected via Polyphaser to the 8' ground
rod outside the shack.

The #4 ground wire snakes in under the
door jamb and terminates on a piece of
flat stock 6" long. I drilled 8 1/4" holes
in that and have SS 1/4" bolts nutted down
tight and use the 8 bolts as anchor points
for the equipment.

I have #6 insulated copper wire attached
to the K3, P3, Alpha amp, 6M amp, NCC-2
and Green Heron Controller. I yet need to
ground the computer, antenna switch, HI-Z
controllers and the Iota DLS-55 power
supply. I also need to find the best way
to ground the control wires to the rotor,
the HI-Z cables and the remote coax
switch.

Braid is much easier to use but since
things don't get moved much, I bent the
copper wire to fit the device to the table
and being ground wire, I like the idea of
solid wire & I wanted shielded so it
doesn't inadvertently touch improperly
down the line and create a ground loop. I
could have used coax as ground but it
wouldn't bend well and would always be a
PITA to deal with.

One thing for sure, I like how consistent
things seem to be when everything is
grounded. More, I feel much safer now.

73,

Gary, KA1J

> Hi Lee,
>
> When I got my K3 I rebuilt my shack from teh ground up, starting with
> the ground, with an eye to reduction of RFI. I took a lot of Jim's,
> suggestions, and I lost about 2 S units of noise. That process is
> detailed here:
>
> https://www.nk7z.net/rebuilding-the-shack/
>
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z/NNR0DC)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL OOC for Oregon

Edward R Cole

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

Probably using braid or multi-strand wire would make it easier. When
I wired my safety ground to my 8877 PA chassis from ground rod,
outside, I bought No. 8 awg. Still pretty stiff. I have 8-32 studs
for connection. 2m-8877 was sold in June now all sspa with 12/28/50v PS.

But one thing I did in my shack design was leave at least 30-inch
space behind My radio table and racks for wiring access to the
backside of my equipment. Maybe not something one can do with
existing station layout but keep in mind if doing renovations. This
winter I am making major layout changes now that my PA's will be
outside at the base of towers or the dish. I have 17 coax lines
coming into the shack and about the same number control
cables. Stuff gets rearranged often. It is said that EME is 90%
maint./engineering and 10% operating. By end of 2019 hopefully QRV
on five eme bands and 630m to 3cm in wavelength (not all eme).

73, Ed - KL7UW
Three towers and one dish (so far)

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Confessions of grounding

On 10/12/2018 2:32 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
> Probably using braid or multi-strand wire would make it easier.

Yes, but NEVER used braid exposed to moisture.

73, Jim K9YC

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Drew AF2Z

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

Yes, it is a hassle getting a stiff copper wire on that little ground
screw. I use 1" braid with a strip of copper sheet folded and soldered
over the end and a screw hole drilled through-- basically, homemade flat
terminal lugs on the ends of the braid. Very easy to manage now.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On 10/12/18 12:47, Leroy Buller wrote:

Don Wilhelm

Re: Confessions of grounding

Why try to connect the wire or braid directly to the ground lug?
Soldering a lug onto the end of a wire or braid makes it "oh so easy" to
attach.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/12/2018 6:29 PM, Drew AF2Z wrote:
> Yes, it is a hassle getting a stiff copper wire on that little ground
> screw. I use 1" braid with a strip of copper sheet folded and soldered
> over the end and a screw hole drilled through-- basically, homemade flat
> terminal lugs on the ends of the braid. Very easy to manage now.
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Bill Frantz

Re: Confessions of grounding

And when Bob, N6TV visited my station, the asked, "Why aren't
you using a spade lug for K3 ground?" I could only say, "Duh!".

73 Bill AE6JV

On 10/12/18 at 7:57 PM, [hidden email] (Don Wilhelm) wrote:

>Why try to connect the wire or braid directly to the ground lug?
>Soldering a lug onto the end of a wire or braid makes it "oh so easy" to attach.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>
>On 10/12/2018 6:29 PM, Drew AF2Z wrote:
>>Yes, it is a hassle getting a stiff copper wire on that little
>>ground screw. I use 1" braid with a strip of copper sheet
>>folded and soldered over the end and a screw hole drilled
>>through-- basically, homemade flat terminal lugs on the ends
>>of the braid. Very easy to manage now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz |The nice thing about standards| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 |is there are so many to choose| 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |from. - Andrew Tanenbaum | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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Vic Rosenthal

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

My shack is only about 6m below my antenna, and although there is a
concrete roof between us, I had problems of RF pickup in my computer. My
antenna is balanced, I used a lot of ferrites on the cables, and bonded
all of the equipment together with copper straps. But the biggest
improvement came when I bonded the three main parts of my metal office
desk together and to the equipment.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 12 Oct 2018 23:00, Gary Smith wrote:

> I too have paid attention to Jim, K9YC's
> advice. Nobody knows it all but he's
> proven to know enough to be an authority
> on the subject so I listen to what he has
> to say.
>
> To that end, I have put in a lot of effort
> to have the Antennas, roof tripod and
> breaker box tied together with #4 solid
> copper wire. Antennas & Rx antennas are
> connected via Polyphaser to the 8' ground
> rod outside the shack.
>
> The #4 ground wire snakes in under the
> door jamb and terminates on a piece of
> flat stock 6" long. I drilled 8 1/4" holes
> in that and have SS 1/4" bolts nutted down
> tight and use the 8 bolts as anchor points
> for the equipment.
>
> I have #6 insulated copper wire attached
> to the K3, P3, Alpha amp, 6M amp, NCC-2
> and Green Heron Controller. I yet need to
> ground the computer, antenna switch, HI-Z
> controllers and the Iota DLS-55 power
> supply. I also need to find the best way
> to ground the control wires to the rotor,
> the HI-Z cables and the remote coax
> switch.
>
> Braid is much easier to use but since
> things don't get moved much, I bent the
> copper wire to fit the device to the table
> and being ground wire, I like the idea of
> solid wire & I wanted shielded so it
> doesn't inadvertently touch improperly
> down the line and create a ground loop. I
> could have used coax as ground but it
> wouldn't bend well and would always be a
> PITA to deal with.
>
> One thing for sure, I like how consistent
> things seem to be when everything is
> grounded. More, I feel much safer now.
>
> 73,
>
> Gary, KA1J

donovanf

Re: Confessions of grounding

Hi Vic,

You certainly have lots of RF in the shack, with your shack only six
meters below your antenna, everything in it (including you!) is part
of your antenna especially on the low bands.

Please be sure your personal RF exposure level is safe

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 4:03:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Confessions of grounding

My shack is only about 6m below my antenna, and although there is a
concrete roof between us, I had problems of RF pickup in my computer. My
antenna is balanced, I used a lot of ferrites on the cables, and bonded
all of the equipment together with copper straps. But the biggest
improvement came when I bonded the three main parts of my metal office
desk together and to the equipment.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 12 Oct 2018 23:00, Gary Smith wrote:

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Drew AF2Z

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

I *am* using a homemade lug, as stated. It's neater than cramming 1" of
braid into the round barrel of a terminal lug. The braid lays flat right
off the screw terminal and onto the desk surface, no bunching into the lug.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On 10/12/18 22:57, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Why try to connect the wire or braid directly to the ground lug?
> Soldering a lug onto the end of a wire or braid makes it "oh so easy" to
> attach.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 10/12/2018 6:29 PM, Drew AF2Z wrote:
>> Yes, it is a hassle getting a stiff copper wire on that little ground
>> screw. I use 1" braid with a strip of copper sheet folded and soldered
>> over the end and a screw hole drilled through-- basically, homemade
>> flat terminal lugs on the ends of the braid. Very easy to manage now.
>

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

For the station bonding jumpers, #10 AWG auto primary wire with a ring
terminal attached is very adequate. Easy to work with, inexpensive,
does the job, and makes for a clean installation. Personally, I crimp
{mechanical connection} and solder {electrical connection} my ring
terminals on the jumpers.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 10/12/2018 4:57 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 10/12/2018 2:32 PM, Edward R Cole wrote:
>> Probably using braid or multi-strand wire would make it easier.
>
> Yes, but NEVER used braid exposed to moisture.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Jim Cassidy

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by NK7Z

To connect flat braid to equipment I have simply tinned the end and drilled an appropriate size hole thru the tinned end. Simplest form of ring lug.

----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2018 11:29:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Confessions of grounding

Hi Lee,

When I got my K3 I rebuilt my shack from teh ground up, starting with
the ground, with an eye to reduction of RFI. I took a lot of Jim's,
suggestions, and I lost about 2 S units of noise. That process is
detailed here:

https://www.nk7z.net/rebuilding-the-shack/

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z/NNR0DC)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 10/12/18 9:47 AM, Leroy Buller wrote:

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Jan-10

Re: Confessions of grounding

In reply to this post by Leroy Buller

Confession: I never ground anything, except via the 3-conductor power
cords . . . . Am I the only one? . . . .

I've been a ham for 64 years, lived & operated in Michigan(first as
Wn8SWN/W8SWN), in Malaysia (as 9M2JJ; 1962-64), in Finland (as
OH1/K1ND/P for a week, 2003), in Maine (as WA1VZZ & K1ND for 7 years)
and now back in Michigan(as K1ND) since 1982.

I've never had a strike; I'm not on the Honor Role (by choice) ~ worked
21 DX entities since January and operate nearly everyday of the year =
some CW and some SSB.

Cheers, Jan K1ND

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Confessions of grounding

Nope. That is the same grounding scheme I've used for years. The 3rd
pin safety ground is really all that is needed for the station inside.

As to lightning protection, that is done outside of the house and takes
into account the tower, the rotor, the antennas and it is bonded outside
of the house back to the AC Mains entrance ground.

73
Bob, K4TAX

On 10/13/2018 12:22 PM, Jan wrote:

> Confession: I never ground anything, except via the 3-conductor power
> cords . . . . Am I the only one? . . . .
>
> I've been a ham for 64 years, lived & operated in Michigan(first as
> Wn8SWN/W8SWN), in Malaysia (as 9M2JJ; 1962-64), in Finland (as
> OH1/K1ND/P for a week, 2003), in Maine (as WA1VZZ & K1ND for 7 years)
> and now back in Michigan(as K1ND) since 1982.
>
> I've never had a strike; I'm not on the Honor Role (by choice) ~
> worked 21 DX entities since January and operate nearly everyday of the
> year = some CW and some SSB.
>
> Cheers, Jan K1ND
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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