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Confused about K3 to K3S Migration service

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Chuck Guenther

Confused about K3 to K3S Migration service

Thanks, Lyle, (and others).

I guess what I really want (and can currently afford) is an upgraded K3,
not a new K3S. I have an earlier s/n K3 (#1061), and have done some of
the mods, but not all of them. For example, I have the new synthesizer,
but not the upgraded DSP board, or even the audio output protection
mods. I also want to add a second receiver. So, I guess I will take
that approach.

73,

Chuck NI0C

Chuck,

This link should answer your questions.

<http://www.elecraft.com/K3_K3S_Migration.htm >

73,

Lyle KK7P

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Bill W4ZV

Re: Confused about K3 to K3S Migration service

NI0C wrote:

"I guess what I really want (and can currently afford) is an upgraded K3,
not a new K3S."

I think you're not alone Chuck. I recently saw the invoice for my current K3 S/N 4717 purchased in September 2010. The K3/100 kit cost $1899.95 and I added a KXV3A for $109.95. I had many other options in an older unit (S/N 21XX) and had decided I'd rather roll to a new K3 than do the DSP upgrade myself. I uninstalled all the filters, KRX3, KDVR3, KAT3; put them in the new unit and then sold the older 21XX unit bare bones (KXV3 plus CW filter).

I've since added two KSYN3As and am very happy with the resulting rig. I never felt the need for the preamp, USB or 630m capabilities. I think Elecraft may have hurt themselves by letting the basic K3S cost escalate above other options like the IC-7300, Kenwood 590 and Flex 6300 and hence we're seeing the recent shipping/bundling/upgrade deals. I wonder if they should have continued offering the original K3 for those who may not have wanted all of the features bundled into the K3S base price? A used K3 is a very viable option since these are available for around $1500 +/- options, although I'd definitely want one above ~3626 to get the new DSP.

73, Bill W4ZV

Bill W4ZV

K3S Package Discounts

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3.htm#K3SPkg

I still question the wisdom of bundling the the preamp, USB, 630m capabilities, etc into the K3S. This went against Elecraft's original philosophy of keeping base price low and choosing only the options we really wanted. This resulted in inflating the base price which put it out of reach for many folks and further away from competing products (IC-7300, Kenwood 590 and Flex 6300). That must be hurting sales resulting in discounting.

A viable option is to buy a recent used K3 and sell/purchase options to configure it as you want. Basic K3 prices are in the $1500 making this a viable alternative IMHO.

73, Bill W4ZV

Thom

Re: K3S Package Discounts

All I can say to Elecraft is if I had the money to buy a K3 with all the
options, given all the issues people have with them on this list, I
probably would not even consider buying one.

I was not really all that impressed with the look of it when I saw it at
Dayton this year. It reminded me of the Kenwood gear, I currently own.

73

Thom KI8W

On 7/29/2017 07:50, Bill W4ZV wrote:

> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3.htm#K3SPkg
>
> I still question the wisdom of bundling the the preamp, USB, 630m
> capabilities, etc into the K3S. This went against Elecraft's original
> philosophy of keeping base price low and choosing only the options we really
> wanted. This resulted in inflating the base price which put it out of reach
> for many folks and further away from competing products (IC-7300, Kenwood
> 590 and Flex 6300). That must be hurting sales resulting in discounting.
>
> A viable option is to buy a recent used K3 and sell/purchase options to
> configure it as you want. Basic K3 prices are in the $1500 making this a
> viable alternative IMHO.
>
> 73, Bill W4ZV
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Confused-about-K3-to-K3S-Migration-service-tp7626459p7632800.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Vic Rosenthal

Re: K3S Package Discounts

The email reflector is the first place to go if you have a problem. So of course reading it gives you the impression that there are a lot of problems. But I suspect it would be the same with a similar reflector dedicated to ANY manufacturer's equipment.
The look... well, that is up to you!

Vic 4X6GP

> On 29 Jul 2017, at 16:59, Thom <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> All I can say to Elecraft is if I had the money to buy a K3 with all the options, given all the issues people have with them on this list, I probably would not even consider buying one.
>
> I was not really all that impressed with the look of it when I saw it at Dayton this year. It reminded me of the Kenwood gear, I currently own.
>
> 73
>
> Thom KI8W
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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: K3S Package Discounts

Not to point any fingers at ANYONE, but most of the "problems" that show up
here are in fact, miss-interpretations, or.....NOT reading the manual in the
first place.
And I'm as guilty of this as anyone. Hey, I know how to operate a bloody
radio right? However, I try not to cry wolf until I have completely proven
myself as not the culprit, which means I seldom do post a problem!

Another area that can easily be interpreted as a "problem" when scanning the
forum is actually with after-market software and/or interfacing with
peripheral equipment.
If you count the real production/equipment failures vs. "others", I'll bet
they're quite low and typical of any quality manufacturer.

73, Charlie k3ICH

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Vic Rosenthal
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 10:26 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts

The email reflector is the first place to go if you have a problem. So of
course reading it gives you the impression that there are a lot of problems.
But I suspect it would be the same with a similar reflector dedicated to ANY
manufacturer's equipment.
The look... well, that is up to you!

Vic 4X6GP

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: OT K3S Package Discounts

In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal

As one that is involved in other like type reflectors {owner and / or
moderator}, they are a great source of information, for problem solving
and learning, specially for those new to ham radio or new to a
particular radio. If one would just read the manual that would help for
75% of the time. RTFM {Read The Full Manual} So in that light, most
things one reads on the reflectors will appear to be issues. I'd
always heard "the bit dog yelps the loudest." What's not generally seen
are the "good ones" being those that are having great success with their
radio.

Look at product reviews on a place such as Amazon. Same thing. A few
good ones, which are from satisfied customers. It would be interesting
to see the percentage of units sold vs. satisfied customer posting. At
the same time, the percentage sold compared against the unsatisfied
customers posting. The point being, we are quick to write and post a
complaint, but rarely do we take time to share good results.

For me, the K3S is on top of the performance and feature list. Issues
and problems on my part at at absolute 0. And I have other radios,
both USA made and JA made. The K3S tops all of them in quality and
performance. Zero complaints and Zero problems here {other than
those where I screw up.}

Most are quick to fault a product and point fingers. I say, "when one
points a finger, look down, there's likely 3 pointing back at the true
source of the problem". Someone said they didn't like the looks of
it. Hey folks, this is radio, not TV. I can't see what you are using
but I sure can hear it!

73

Bob, K4TAX

K3S s/n 10163

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kstover

Re: K3S Package Discounts

In reply to this post by Charlie T, K3ICH

Exactly!!

I'll bet it's more like 95% PEBCAR (Problem Exists Between Chair and
Radio), Along with the "We Don't Need No Stinking Manuals" attitude
exhibited by some "real" radio people. We also have the design engineers
who like to come on and say how they would have done it differently or
their design is better. OK smart guy...where's YOUR Radio company
building and selling your self designed wonder of the ages?

It's really funny and a nice comical relief respit from the real world.

On 7/29/2017 9:43 AM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:

> Not to point any fingers at ANYONE, but most of the "problems" that show up
> here are in fact, miss-interpretations, or.....NOT reading the manual in the
> first place.
> And I'm as guilty of this as anyone. Hey, I know how to operate a bloody
> radio right? However, I try not to cry wolf until I have completely proven
> myself as not the culprit, which means I seldom do post a problem!
>
> Another area that can easily be interpreted as a "problem" when scanning the
> forum is actually with after-market software and/or interfacing with
> peripheral equipment.
> If you count the real production/equipment failures vs. "others", I'll bet
> they're quite low and typical of any quality manufacturer.
>
> 73, Charlie k3ICH

>

--
R. Kevin Stover AC0H
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441
ARRL
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WILLIE BABER

Re: K3S Package Discounts

In reply to this post by Bill W4ZV

I imagine that many persons wanting K3/K3s have one, and so sales may not be as robust as a result. The many improvements over time have created a mature radio--and all essential improvements can be made to an early K3 (same with the K2). I appreciate Elecraft for this approach to building radios. However, this does mean that many of us are using aging K3s that work just as well as the new K3s. I have two K3 radios (so2r), one is about nine years older than the other one but they are both essentially the same.

It does seem that the prices associated with adding more options to the basic radio is different from the original sales philosophy of Elecraft: a top performing radio at a price that is lower because you buy only what you need and you can save even more by assembling it yourself.

This still applies but not as well as it did with the original K3, first produced some years ago however!

I never thought of Elecraft as an inexpensive radio (it looked inexpensive if you purchased the basic kit and nothing else); rather, I could see the savings in purchasing only what I wanted but still had the performance and I/O for the future.

Finally, maintaining the K3 is far less expensive (compared to other radios) because many of us can do minor repair ourselves, with instructions provided by Elecraft technicians.

73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 7/29/17, Bill W4ZV <[hidden email]> wrote:

Subject: [Elecraft] K3S Package Discounts
To: [hidden email]
Date: Saturday, July 29, 2017, 5:50 AM

http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3.htm#K3SPkg

I still question the wisdom of
bundling the the preamp, USB, 630m
capabilities, etc into the K3S. This went
against Elecraft's original
philosophy
of keeping base price low and choosing only the options we
really
wanted. This resulted in inflating
the base price which put it out of reach
for
many folks and further away from competing products
(IC-7300, Kenwood
590 and Flex 6300). That
must be hurting sales resulting in discounting.

A viable option is to buy a
recent used K3 and sell/purchase options to
configure it as you want. Basic K3 prices are
in the $1500 making this a
viable
alternative IMHO.

73,
Bill W4ZV

--
View this
message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Confused-about-K3-to-K3S-Migration-service-tp7626459p7632800.html
Sent
from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Clay Autery-2

Re: K3S Package Discounts

In reply to this post by Thom

You do realize that:

1) You will see a disproportionate number of "issues" related posts on a
SUPPORT reflector versus the actual issue to total population ratio.
Right? IAW... May LOOK like there are a lot of issues.... but your are
looking at the place where everyone with issues posts... NOT seeing a
representative sample IAW.
2) The POINT of a modular system is so you can a) get only what you
want/need, and b) get what you can afford now and add options later.
This is a proven approach allowing folks (like me for instance) to
"drive a Cadillac" when the budget says economy car. You can start with
a 10 W K3s kit and build it up as funds present... OR you can do like me
and hit the ground running with a fully loaded kit (sans 2nd receiver
and 2M).
3) If you want flashy looks or flashy looks is high on your priority
list, then there are boxes you can buy that flash and go bing. Elecraft
builds radios that work, go to the field, and perform at the very top of
the game.

I'd sacrifice my left arm, right nut, and fight you "tooth and nail"
before I gave up my K3S.

Try getting this level of performance AND support out of any of the
off-shore companies... Try getting most any other company to do
hardware and performance updates and make them available at a reasonable
price for YOU to install...

Just hope you will investigate further... Fact is, I seldom even look
at the gear unless I am in the field... I run it through Win4K3Suite,
HRD modules, et al on one monitor ... Have the P3 on another big
monitor Nice mic on an overhead boom... Only thing on my desktop is my
mouse, key, and keyboard...

73,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 7/29/2017 8:59 AM, Thom wrote:

> All I can say to Elecraft is if I had the money to buy a K3 with all
> the options, given all the issues people have with them on this list,
> I probably would not even consider buying one.
>
> I was not really all that impressed with the look of it when I saw it
> at Dayton this year. It reminded me of the Kenwood gear, I currently
> own.
>
> 73
>
> Thom KI8W

Clay Autery-2

Re: OT K3S Package Discounts

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Yep... I've never has a SINGLE issue that wasn't caused by incorrect
"operator head-space and timing". Not one.

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 7/29/2017 9:43 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> As one that is involved in other like type reflectors {owner and / or
> moderator}, they are a great source of information, for problem
> solving and learning, specially for those new to ham radio or new to a
> particular radio. If one would just read the manual that would help
> for 75% of the time. RTFM {Read The Full Manual} So in that
> light, most things one reads on the reflectors will appear to be
> issues. I'd always heard "the bit dog yelps the loudest." What's not
> generally seen are the "good ones" being those that are having great
> success with their radio.
>
> Look at product reviews on a place such as Amazon. Same thing. A few
> good ones, which are from satisfied customers. It would be
> interesting to see the percentage of units sold vs. satisfied customer
> posting. At the same time, the percentage sold compared against the
> unsatisfied customers posting. The point being, we are quick to
> write and post a complaint, but rarely do we take time to share good
> results.
>
> For me, the K3S is on top of the performance and feature list. Issues
> and problems on my part at at absolute 0. And I have other radios,
> both USA made and JA made. The K3S tops all of them in quality and
> performance. Zero complaints and Zero problems here {other than
> those where I screw up.}
>
> Most are quick to fault a product and point fingers. I say, "when
> one points a finger, look down, there's likely 3 pointing back at the
> true source of the problem". Someone said they didn't like the looks
> of it. Hey folks, this is radio, not TV. I can't see what you are
> using but I sure can hear it!
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
> K3S s/n 10163

Neil Zampella

Re: K3S Package Discounts

In reply to this post by kstover

We used to call it a 'Short between the headsets!' :)

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 7/29/2017 11:07 AM, Kevin Stover, AC0H wrote:

>
> Exactly!!
>
> I'll bet it's more like 95% PEBCAR (Problem Exists Between Chair and
> Radio), Along with the "We Don't Need No Stinking Manuals" attitude
> exhibited by some "real" radio people. We also have the design
> engineers who like to come on and say how they would have done it
> differently or their design is better. OK smart guy...where's YOUR
> Radio company building and selling your self designed wonder of the ages?
>
> It's really funny and a nice comical relief respit from the real world.
>
>
>
> On 7/29/2017 9:43 AM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
>> Not to point any fingers at ANYONE, but most of the "problems" that
>> show up
>> here are in fact, miss-interpretations, or.....NOT reading the manual
>> in the
>> first place.
>> And I'm as guilty of this as anyone. Hey, I know how to operate a bloody
>> radio right? However, I try not to cry wolf until I have completely
>> proven
>> myself as not the culprit, which means I seldom do post a problem!
>>
>> Another area that can easily be interpreted as a "problem" when
>> scanning the
>> forum is actually with after-market software and/or interfacing with
>> peripheral equipment.
>> If you count the real production/equipment failures vs. "others",
>> I'll bet
>> they're quite low and typical of any quality manufacturer.
>>
>> 73, Charlie k3ICH
>
>>
>

Don Wilhelm

Re: K3S Package Discounts

In reply to this post by WILLIE BABER

On the contrary, I think the decision to offer "standard configuration
packages" is a result of customer questions resulting from confusion
about "what options do I need" and much time devoted to pre-sale
communication with prospective customers.

Other manufacturers offer an "all or nothing" package that is their
current model/configuration.

I have witnessed the confusion of many prospective buyers at the
Elecraft booth at many hamfests - there is a lot of confusion about
which options they should include. We endeavor to provide assistance to
customize the option mix to the wants and needs of the customer.

These "standard" packages is a way to allow customers to purchase a K3S
for the type of operating that they will be doing while minimizing that
pre-sale activity.

One can still order additional options even with the pre-defined
packages (and I assume also delete some options). But for the customer
who is not familiar with what each Elecraft option will do for their
operating experience, I believe it is a step in the right direction.

If Elecraft were to follow other manufacturer's footsteps, there would
be a K3S-I, K3S-II and K3S-III designation for each of those bundles,
but note that Elecraft has chosen not to do that. You do not have to
sell your K3S-I to get a K3S-III, just add the options needed to upgrade
it.

That "upgradability" has always been unique at Elecraft. Any K2 can be
upgraded to the electrical equal of a new one, the same goes for the K3
with the addition of the modules included in the K3S (with only a few
minor exceptions).

This is part of the Elecraft customer support philosophy. Note that the
K2 is a 1998 design and is still going strong, and still fully supported.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/29/2017 11:17 AM, WILLIE BABER wrote:
> I imagine that many persons wanting K3/K3s have one, and so sales may not be as robust as a result. The many improvements over time have created a mature radio--and all essential improvements can be made to an early K3 (same with the K2). I appreciate Elecraft for this approach to building radios. However, this does mean that many of us are using aging K3s that work just as well as the new K3s. I have two K3 radios (so2r), one is about nine years older than the other one but they are both essentially the same.
>
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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3S Package Discounts

I purchased my K3S, my first Elecraft product, based on three factors:
Performance, specified configuration as I wanted, and product support.

73

Bob, K4TAX

K3S s/n 10163

On 7/29/2017 11:55 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

> I agree.
>
> People might expect a simple answer to “How much does a K3S cost?”, but they get “It depends” then spend hours trying on the website and this list adding up lists of options. This is that simple answer. I have no doubt that it will increase sales, because it decreases the friction of pricing out a K3S.
>
> It would be handy to have the same thing for a fully-loaded KX3, just to avoid all the sums.
>
> wunder
> Walter Underwood
> [hidden email]
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
>

EUGENE GABRY

Re: K3S Package Discounts

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Well stated Don, This was one of the deciding factors for me when I pulled the trigger on Elecraft two years ago. I saw the value in being able to add options along the way as/if, my operating style or conditions changed. Firmware upgrades and support were the other reason. I wanted a rig "I" could grow into over time before time ran out on the current technology "of the day".

73 Gene
N9TF

> On July 29, 2017 at 11:12 AM Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>

>
> That "upgradability" has always been unique at Elecraft. Any K2 can be
> upgraded to the electrical equal of a new one, the same goes for the K3
> with the addition of the modules included in the K3S (with only a few
> minor exceptions).
>
> This is part of the Elecraft customer support philosophy. Note that the
> K2 is a 1998 design and is still going strong, and still fully supported.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR

Clay Autery-2

Re: K3S Package Discounts

In reply to this post by Bill W4ZV

Just because they OFFER bundles doesn't mean you can't order a base unit
and a la carte.

After all... they ain't blowing out IC-7300s here. <ear to ear grin>

73,

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 7/29/2017 6:50 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:

wayne burdick

Re: K3S Package Discounts

Administrator

Correct. The packages are just a convenience based on past ordering history.

(FYI, we have a detailed features/performance comparison chart of the K3S vs. IC7300. Email me directly if interested.)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 12:18 PM, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Just because they OFFER bundles doesn't mean you can't order a base unit
> and a la carte.
>
> After all... they ain't blowing out IC-7300s here. <ear to ear grin>
>
> 73,
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
>
> On 7/29/2017 6:50 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:
>> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3.htm#K3SPkg
>>
>> I still question the wisdom of bundling the the preamp, USB, 630m
>> capabilities, etc into the K3S. This went against Elecraft's original
>> philosophy of keeping base price low and choosing only the options we really
>> wanted. This resulted in inflating the base price which put it out of reach
>> for many folks and further away from competing products (IC-7300, Kenwood
>> 590 and Flex 6300). That must be hurting sales resulting in discounting.
>>
>> A viable option is to buy a recent used K3 and sell/purchase options to
>> configure it as you want. Basic K3 prices are in the $1500 making this a
>> viable alternative IMHO.
>>
>> 73, Bill W4ZV

Nicklas Johnson

Re: K3S Package Discounts

I have a question on this because it wasn't immediately obvious to me when
I looked at the web site the other day.

Are the bundles fully assembled units, or is it possible to get a bundle in
kit form? I really enjoyed the assembly of my KX3, and I really like the
idea of bundling common options too.

Sorry if that's a dumb question and I just missed something that was
staring me in the face.

Nick

On Jul 29, 2017 12:31 PM, "Wayne Burdick" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Correct. The packages are just a convenience based on past ordering
> history.
>
> (FYI, we have a detailed features/performance comparison chart of the K3S
> vs. IC7300. Email me directly if interested.)
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
> > On Jul 29, 2017, at 12:18 PM, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Just because they OFFER bundles doesn't mean you can't order a base unit
> > and a la carte.
> >
> > After all... they ain't blowing out IC-7300s here. <ear to ear grin>
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > ______________________
> > Clay Autery, KY5G
> >
> > On 7/29/2017 6:50 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:
> >> http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3.htm#K3SPkg
> >>
> >> I still question the wisdom of bundling the the preamp, USB, 630m
> >> capabilities, etc into the K3S. This went against Elecraft's original
> >> philosophy of keeping base price low and choosing only the options we
> really
> >> wanted. This resulted in inflating the base price which put it out of
> reach
> >> for many folks and further away from competing products (IC-7300,
> Kenwood
> >> 590 and Flex 6300). That must be hurting sales resulting in
> discounting.
> >>
> >> A viable option is to buy a recent used K3 and sell/purchase options to
> >> configure it as you want. Basic K3 prices are in the $1500 making this
> a
> >> viable alternative IMHO.
> >>
> >> 73, Bill W4ZV
>
>
>
>
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>

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

Re: K3S Package Discounts

In reply to this post by Thom

If you want to rate how good (or how bad) a product is, you have to have
a random sampling of owners and equipment.

If the sample is self-selected, your sample consists mostly of those
having trouble, some who just like to help, and a few who don't own the
product.

Most Elecraft customers are happily operating, and have no gripes for
the list.

Nobody notices when things go right.

What you can learn from a list like this one is how the company handles
problems.

Unlike Kenwood, both of the owners and most of the engineers (probably
all) are on here, available to customers.

73 -- Lynn

On 7/29/2017 6:59 AM, Thom wrote:
> All I can say to Elecraft is if I had the money to buy a K3 with all the
> options, given all the issues people have with them on this list, I
> probably would not even consider buying one.
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k6dgw

Re: K3S Package Discounts

In reply to this post by Bill W4ZV

I guess it is a change from the traditionalElecraft "roll your own from
a long list of options" approach, and your point is is valid, at least
partially. HoweverI suspect strongly that there are
manufacturing/assembly/logistics/support benefits and savings to the
company by offering several"canned" configurations.

Questions about "Which optionshould I get" often appear on this list,
and I've watched the E-folks at Hamfests spend a lot of time helping a
new customer figure out what they want/need. The "roll your own" option
is still available for those who prefer it, which is not true for other
manufacturers, at least to the same degree as from Elecraft.

My K3 is old [S/N 642] and it now has what I want and use [except for
the DVK which I wanted, bought, but have rarely used].When the K3s
showed up, I told myselfthat the first good reason I could come up with
to sell it and get a K3s, I'd do it. Still running #642.

73,

Fred ("Skip") K6DGW
Sparks NV USA
Washoe County DM09dn

On 7/29/2017 4:50 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote: