Considering a KPA-500

[k6dgw]

"A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon we're talking about real
money."
   [often misattributed to Sen. Everett Dirksen]

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 4/24/2015 9:21 AM, Ian White wrote:
> N7WS wrote:
>
>> So I'm looking for fractions of a dB here and there
>> to add up to the power difference.
>
> "Take care of the millibels, and the decibels will take care of
> themselves."
>
> 73 from Ian GM3SEK

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[w7aqk]

David and All,

I, for one, am a very happy camper with just the KPA500 vs. something much
bigger and closer to the legal limit.  Obviously, if 500 watts is good, then
1000 watts, or 1500 watts, must be better!  The question is "how much"?  And
at what cost?  Add to that, "what are the downsides?

You can compute what you are leaving on the table (in Db and/or S units),
but it's an entirely different matter to determine whether you will or won't
be heard with just the lesser amount of power.  At 500 watts I'm picking up
something over an "S unit" from my 100 watt barefoot power.  I'm leaving
something less than an S unit on the table by not running 1500 watts.  For
me, the extra S unit plus has been rather dramatic.  For whatever reason,
and considering my modest antenna situation, I seem to be "noticed" a lot
more often, and have to repeat calls a lot less.  It has gotten me a bunch
closer to being able to say with confidence "if I can hear them, I can work
them"!

What you may want to do is run a test with someone who can vary his power
widely so that you can hear the difference yourself.  That may make up your
mind for you.  I suggest doing it at a level where 100 watts is readable
with slight difficulty, then go up from there.  I think you will find that
the jump from 100 to 500 watts or so makes the biggest difference, and there
are diminishing returns from there.

In my view, the cost and inconvenience of going to even higher power is a
big hurdle.  I run my KPA500 on a 120 volt line, and it works just fine!  If
I go to 1 KW or higher, I need 220 volts!  I don't have that in my shack.  I
can carry my KPA500 with 1 hand--easily!  With my KPA500, and the companion
KAT500, one or two "dits" and I'm tuned!  Band changing is a snap!  The amp
is VERY quiet!  As soon as I turn it on, it is ready to go!  Even traveling
with this amp is not out of the question.

If I can't hear a station (which often is the case!), I can't work them.
More power isn't going to change that.  Only a better antenna will improve
that problem.  At 100 watts I was often questionable, but at 500 watts I'm
substantially more readable at the other end, and usually enough to make the
contact--and with Q5 results.  In truth, I am probably benefitting from the
other station's better antenna.  Anyway, the only way I am apt to make
significant improvements from my current level is to improve my antenna, not
increase my power!

Apparently, based on other comments, I could run the KPA500 up to nearly 700
watts.  I don't do that.  I just don't see the benefit of pushing the amp.
Maybe the amp can take that without straining, but I don't want to chance
it.  another 100 to 200 watts seems almost meaningless.  Contesters and
DXers probably won't agree!  If I ever get the urge to go to higher power,
it will probably be to close to 1500 watts--but I doubt that will ever
happen.  Going to 1 KW is only 3 Db, and that just doesn't sound like enough
vs. the problems I would be creating.

Lastly, if anything ever happens to my KPA500, I have Elecraft to turn to.
That is huge!  I cannot put a price, or a value, on the peace of mind that
gives me!  With respect to amps, the KPA500 may be something of a
compromise, but I think it is one of the smartest things Elecraft ever did!

Notwithstanding all of this, if you are a die hard contester, or DXer, I
strongly suspect the siren call of 1500 watts will get you --sooner or
later.

Dave W7AQK


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[k6dgw]

Easy to do with the NCDXF beacons.

http://www.ncdxf.org/beacon/intro.html

Each station transmits at 100, 10, 1, and 0.1 W in its time slot, a
range of 30 dB.  Most of the time on 14.100, 4U1UN in NYC is readable
here on the western frontier at all four power levels, although the 100
mW level isn't likely to be a pile-up buster. :-)  The striking thing
for me at least is that the apparent difference between 100 and 10 W [10
dB], while noticeable, really isn't all that great.  I doubt I could
pick out a 4 or maybe even 5 dB difference in most cases.

I'm firmly convinced that operator skill is the largest factor by a huge
margin.  NAQP's are 100 W max.  Compare my NAQP CW scores [www.nccc.cc]
with the scores of the "masters" like K6XX, K9YC, or most anyone
operating at N6RO, W7RN, N0NI, or W9RE.  They're at least 20-25 "dB"
better than I am.

As far as DXing goes, my CQP buddy Larry, W4UAT, is at the top of the
honor roll [5B] from a city lot in Livermore CA.  I might get to 200
mixed if I ever got around to sending my cards in.  The difference? --
I've watched him work DX, he runs circles around me.

If I was really serious about DX, and I had to choose 100W + P3 vs 1500W
and no P3, I'd take the 100 W + P3 in a heartbeat.  I originally bought
mine as a "toy" ... today, it's really all I watch if I'm in a pile-up
or contest.

And, contrary to at least one opinion, this is not "rope-a-dope" and I'm
not sandbagging for the next contest ... I'm just not in the same league
as those who win.  Now, I did take "1st in W6" in a JIDX CW a few years
ago.  This could be accurately restated as "Next to Last in W6" too. :-))

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 4/24/2015 10:55 AM, dyarnes wrote:

> What you may want to do is run a test with someone who can vary his
> power widely so that you can hear the difference yourself.
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[Elecraft mailing list]

I used to run an ACOM 2000A and now use the KPA500 almost exclusively. On  
CW I notice no issues.  There have been a couple of times on SSB when I  
wished I had the 1500W but I eventually got thru.  I'm working on DXCC for  
160m and wonder if this will be an issue but so far if I can hear them I can  
work them (RX is only my inverted L).  We'll see when I put up my short  
vertical array this summer (Hi-Z). This is only anecdotal evidence and may not  
have really been an issue.  The K3, KPA500, KAT500 is essentially a 500w  
transceiver and works flawlessly for me.
 
Mike KD8RQE
 
 
In a message dated 4/23/2015 10:36:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[hidden email] writes:

Hi  all,

I am considering a KPA-500...  I currently have an AL-82, and  am getting
tired of all the band switching etc.

My only real issue  with the KPA-500 is the output power of only 500
watts.  Just how much  of a hit will I take by going from 1500 watts to
500 watts...  I chase  DX, via RTTY and CW mostly, and some SSB.  

I get DB, and realize  that I will take a roughly a 5 db loss in signal,
which is one S-unit...  

Will the KPA-500 take key down for 10 or more minutes at full  power??

Is there anyone on here that has gone from 1500 to 500 watts,  and if so,
can you tell me a bit about it?  How does the LPA-500  operate on MARS
frequencies?  They are all over the place, not in ham  bands...

--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups  and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support  see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram  information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for  MM-SSTV  see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info



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[W7CS]

To all those comparing 500+ W versus 1500 W, and want instant on,
with auto tracking the K3 in frequency, maybe you should consider the
SPE/Expert 1.3K-FA.

The desk space that it takes up is not much more than the KPA500, and
it comes with a built in auto ATU.  It will reportedly put out up
to1500 W.  The price for the 3+dB gain in output is also increased,
but less than 3 dB.

Now if you want to cash in your 401K , SPE/Expert also offers the
2K-FA, which will be at least an S unit stronger than the KPA500
!   Again also with the auto tracking of the K3 and fully auto
ATU.  However you may need to consider increasing the power handling
of your coaxes and antennas !

Chuck,  W7CS

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[Ross Primrose]

On 4/24/2015 6:50 PM, Chuck Smallhouse wrote:
> Now if you want to cash in your 401K , SPE/Expert also offers the
> 2K-FA, which will be at least an S unit stronger than the KPA500 !  
> Again also with the auto tracking of the K3 and fully auto ATU.  
> However you may need to consider increasing the power handling of your
> coaxes and antennas !

And the AC feed into the shack ;)

73, Ross N4RP

>
> Chuck,  W7CS
>
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--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.”

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[Bill Turner-2]

IGINAL MESSAGE ------------(may be snipped)

On Fri, 24 Apr 2015 19:03:36 -0400, you wrote:

>
>On 4/24/2015 6:50 PM, Chuck Smallhouse wrote:
>> Now if you want to cash in your 401K , SPE/Expert also offers the
>> 2K-FA, which will be at least an S unit stronger than the KPA500 !

REPLY:

If you are into that price range, you might consider the ACOM 2000A
which I consider the best amp on the market. Unlike the others
mentioned it is 1500 watts, no duty cycle limit. It is tube type.

I've had Alpha, Command, ICOM, a superb homebrew and others and the
ACOM beats them all.

Opinions will vary of course, but if I could have only one amp it
would be a 2000A.

73, Bill W6WRT
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[Mike Harris-9]

They seem to be also offering a rather smart looking power combiner for
any pair of their amp range.  Not cheap.

Regards,

Mike VP8NO

On 24/04/2015 19:50, Chuck Smallhouse wrote:

> To all those comparing 500+ W versus 1500 W, and want instant on, with
> auto tracking the K3 in frequency, maybe you should consider the
> SPE/Expert 1.3K-FA.
>
> The desk space that it takes up is not much more than the KPA500, and it
> comes with a built in auto ATU.  It will reportedly put out up to1500
> W.  The price for the 3+dB gain in output is also increased, but less
> than 3 dB.
>
> Now if you want to cash in your 401K , SPE/Expert also offers the 2K-FA,
> which will be at least an S unit stronger than the KPA500 !   Again also
> with the auto tracking of the K3 and fully auto ATU.  However you may
> need to consider increasing the power handling of your coaxes and
> antennas !
>
> Chuck,  W7CS

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[Merv Schweigert]

I have 3 1/4 inch hard line running about 400 ft to the antennas will
that work ok?

Its the fittings from 3 1/4 to a pl-259 that are the killer..

73 Merv K9FD/KH6

> To all those comparing 500+ W versus 1500 W, and want instant on, with
> auto tracking the K3 in frequency, maybe you should consider the
> SPE/Expert 1.3K-FA.
>
> The desk space that it takes up is not much more than the KPA500, and
> it comes with a built in auto ATU.  It will reportedly put out up
> to1500 W.  The price for the 3+dB gain in output is also increased,
> but less than 3 dB.
>
> Now if you want to cash in your 401K , SPE/Expert also offers the
> 2K-FA, which will be at least an S unit stronger than the KPA500 !  
> Again also with the auto tracking of the K3 and fully auto ATU.  
> However you may need to consider increasing the power handling of your
> coaxes and antennas !
>
> Chuck,  W7CS
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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[Nick - VE3EY]

How far does your hard earned $$ go when purchasing an ham amplifier?

I put a little spreadsheet together today.

In addition to conventional "$ per watt" breakdown,  I have also included
"$ per dBm".   It basically tells you how much each additional decibel of
gain over 100 watt output power will cost you based on the estimated power
output , purchase price and gain as compared to your typical barefoot rig.

For power output I have made some rough estimates as to how much power a
given amplifier can produce.   The prices I have collected today from
various vendor or dealer web sites.   May not be entirely accurate but you
get an idea.


This table shows the breakdown sorted by $USD per 1 dBM column

Amplifier model Pwr out Price ($USD) dBm over 100 watt *$USD per 1 dBm*
$USD per watt Ameritron AL-811H 800 999 9.0 110.6 1.2 QRO HF-2500DX (used)
2000 2500 13.0 192.2 1.3 Acom 1010 700 1870 8.5 221.3 2.7 Alpha 99 (used)
2000 3000 13.0 230.6 1.5 Ameritron AL-82 1300 2995 11.1 268.9 2.3 Elecraft
KPA500 600 2100 7.8 269.9 3.5 Acom 1000 1000 2750 10.0 275.0 2.8 Ameritron
ALS-1306 1200 3000 10.8 278.0 2.5 Ameritron AL-1500 2200 3749 13.4 279.3
1.7 Ameritron AL-1200 1500 3349 11.8 284.8 2.2 Amplifier "X" 5000 5000 17.0
294.3 1.0 OM 2000+ 2000 4095 13.0 314.8 2.0 Acom 600S 700 2795 8.5 330.7
4.0 Acom 1500 1500 3990 11.8 339.3 2.7 QRO HF-3KDX 2200 4595 13.4 342.3 2.1
SPE Expert 1.3k-FA w/o ATU 1200 3700 10.8 342.9 3.1 Alpha 8410 2000 4995
13.0 383.9 2.5 SPE Expert 1K-FA 1000 4000 10.0 400.0 4.0 OM-2500 HF 2500
5995 14.0 428.8 2.4 SPE Expert 1.3K-FA w/ATU 1200 5000 10.8 463.3 4.2 Acom
2000 2000 6490 13.0 498.8 3.2 OM-2500 A 2500 7095 14.0 507.5 2.8 Alpha 9500
2200 6995 13.4 521.1 3.2 SPE Expert 2K-FA 2200 7000 13.4 521.4 3.2


Next table is sorted by conventional "$ per watt" column.

Amplifier model Pwr out Price ($USD) dBm over 100 watt $USD per 1 dBm *$USD
per watt* Amplifier "X" 5000 5000 17.0 294.3 1.0 Ameritron AL-811H 800 999
9.0 110.6 1.2 QRO HF-2500DX (used) 2000 2500 13.0 192.2 1.3 Alpha 99 (used)
2000 3000 13.0 230.6 1.5 Ameritron AL-1500 2200 3749 13.4 279.3 1.7 OM
2000+ 2000 4095 13.0 314.8 2.0 QRO HF-3KDX 2200 4595 13.4 342.3 2.1
Ameritron AL-1200 1500 3349 11.8 284.8 2.2 Ameritron AL-82 1300 2995 11.1
268.9 2.3 OM-2500 HF 2500 5995 14.0 428.8 2.4 Alpha 8410 2000 4995 13.0
383.9 2.5 Ameritron ALS-1306 1200 3000 10.8 278.0 2.5 Acom 1500 1500 3990
11.8 339.3 2.7 Acom 1010 700 1870 8.5 221.3 2.7 Acom 1000 1000 2750 10.0
275.0 2.8 OM-2500 A 2500 7095 14.0 507.5 2.8 SPE Expert 1.3k-FA w/o ATU
1200 3700 10.8 342.9 3.1 Alpha 9500 2200 6995 13.4 521.1 3.2 SPE Expert
2K-FA 2200 7000 13.4 521.4 3.2 Acom 2000 2000 6490 13.0 498.8 3.2 Elecraft
KPA500 600 2100 7.8 269.9 3.5 Acom 600S 700 2795 8.5 330.7 4.0 SPE Expert
1K-FA 1000 4000 10.0 400.0 4.0 SPE Expert 1.3K-FA w/ATU 1200 5000 10.8
463.3 4.2
73,  Nick
ve3ey

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Merv Schweigert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have 3 1/4 inch hard line running about 400 ft to the antennas will that
> work ok?
>
> Its the fittings from 3 1/4 to a pl-259 that are the killer..
>
> 73 Merv K9FD/KH6
>
>  To all those comparing 500+ W versus 1500 W, and want instant on, with
>> auto tracking the K3 in frequency, maybe you should consider the SPE/Expert
>> 1.3K-FA.
>>
>> The desk space that it takes up is not much more than the KPA500, and it
>> comes with a built in auto ATU.  It will reportedly put out up to1500 W.
>> The price for the 3+dB gain in output is also increased, but less than 3 dB.
>>
>> Now if you want to cash in your 401K , SPE/Expert also offers the 2K-FA,
>> which will be at least an S unit stronger than the KPA500 !   Again also
>> with the auto tracking of the K3 and fully auto ATU.  However you may need
>> to consider increasing the power handling of your coaxes and antennas !
>>
>> Chuck,  W7CS
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>

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[Elecraft mailing list]

I think some people take this HOBBY way to serious ;)



      From: Nick - VE3EY <[hidden email]>
 To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 2:48 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Considering a KPA-500
   
How far does your hard earned $$ go when purchasing an ham amplifier?

I put a little spreadsheet together today.

In addition to conventional "$ per watt" breakdown,  I have also included
"$ per dBm".  It basically tells you how much each additional decibel of
gain over 100 watt output power will cost you based on the estimated power
output , purchase price and gain as compared to your typical barefoot rig.

For power output I have made some rough estimates as to how much power a
given amplifier can produce.  The prices I have collected today from
various vendor or dealer web sites.  May not be entirely accurate but you
get an idea.


This table shows the breakdown sorted by $USD per 1 dBM column

Amplifier model Pwr out Price ($USD) dBm over 100 watt *$USD per 1 dBm*
$USD per watt Ameritron AL-811H 800 999 9.0 110.6 1.2 QRO HF-2500DX (used)
2000 2500 13.0 192.2 1.3 Acom 1010 700 1870 8.5 221.3 2.7 Alpha 99 (used)
2000 3000 13.0 230.6 1.5 Ameritron AL-82 1300 2995 11.1 268.9 2.3 Elecraft
KPA500 600 2100 7.8 269.9 3.5 Acom 1000 1000 2750 10.0 275.0 2.8 Ameritron
ALS-1306 1200 3000 10.8 278.0 2.5 Ameritron AL-1500 2200 3749 13.4 279.3
1.7 Ameritron AL-1200 1500 3349 11.8 284.8 2.2 Amplifier "X" 5000 5000 17.0
294.3 1.0 OM 2000+ 2000 4095 13.0 314.8 2.0 Acom 600S 700 2795 8.5 330.7
4.0 Acom 1500 1500 3990 11.8 339.3 2.7 QRO HF-3KDX 2200 4595 13.4 342.3 2.1
SPE Expert 1.3k-FA w/o ATU 1200 3700 10.8 342.9 3.1 Alpha 8410 2000 4995
13.0 383.9 2.5 SPE Expert 1K-FA 1000 4000 10.0 400.0 4.0 OM-2500 HF 2500
5995 14.0 428.8 2.4 SPE Expert 1.3K-FA w/ATU 1200 5000 10.8 463.3 4.2 Acom
2000 2000 6490 13.0 498.8 3.2 OM-2500 A 2500 7095 14.0 507.5 2.8 Alpha 9500
2200 6995 13.4 521.1 3.2 SPE Expert 2K-FA 2200 7000 13.4 521.4 3.2


Next table is sorted by conventional "$ per watt" column.

Amplifier model Pwr out Price ($USD) dBm over 100 watt $USD per 1 dBm *$USD
per watt* Amplifier "X" 5000 5000 17.0 294.3 1.0 Ameritron AL-811H 800 999
9.0 110.6 1.2 QRO HF-2500DX (used) 2000 2500 13.0 192.2 1.3 Alpha 99 (used)
2000 3000 13.0 230.6 1.5 Ameritron AL-1500 2200 3749 13.4 279.3 1.7 OM
2000+ 2000 4095 13.0 314.8 2.0 QRO HF-3KDX 2200 4595 13.4 342.3 2.1
Ameritron AL-1200 1500 3349 11.8 284.8 2.2 Ameritron AL-82 1300 2995 11.1
268.9 2.3 OM-2500 HF 2500 5995 14.0 428.8 2.4 Alpha 8410 2000 4995 13.0
383.9 2.5 Ameritron ALS-1306 1200 3000 10.8 278.0 2.5 Acom 1500 1500 3990
11.8 339.3 2.7 Acom 1010 700 1870 8.5 221.3 2.7 Acom 1000 1000 2750 10.0
275.0 2.8 OM-2500 A 2500 7095 14.0 507.5 2.8 SPE Expert 1.3k-FA w/o ATU
1200 3700 10.8 342.9 3.1 Alpha 9500 2200 6995 13.4 521.1 3.2 SPE Expert
2K-FA 2200 7000 13.4 521.4 3.2 Acom 2000 2000 6490 13.0 498.8 3.2 Elecraft
KPA500 600 2100 7.8 269.9 3.5 Acom 600S 700 2795 8.5 330.7 4.0 SPE Expert
1K-FA 1000 4000 10.0 400.0 4.0 SPE Expert 1.3K-FA w/ATU 1200 5000 10.8
463.3 4.2
73,  Nick
ve3ey

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Merv Schweigert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have 3 1/4 inch hard line running about 400 ft to the antennas will that
> work ok?
>
> Its the fittings from 3 1/4 to a pl-259 that are the killer..
>
> 73 Merv K9FD/KH6
>
>  To all those comparing 500+ W versus 1500 W, and want instant on, with
>> auto tracking the K3 in frequency, maybe you should consider the SPE/Expert
>> 1.3K-FA.
>>
>> The desk space that it takes up is not much more than the KPA500, and it
>> comes with a built in auto ATU.  It will reportedly put out up to1500 W.
>> The price for the 3+dB gain in output is also increased, but less than 3 dB.
>>
>> Now if you want to cash in your 401K , SPE/Expert also offers the 2K-FA,
>> which will be at least an S unit stronger than the KPA500 !  Again also
>> with the auto tracking of the K3 and fully auto ATU.  However you may need
>> to consider increasing the power handling of your coaxes and antennas !
>>
>> Chuck,  W7CS
>>
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[Michael Walker]

All I can say, and what I have learned is that great contest, not compressed audio at 600w is so much better than 1500 watts of highly compressed audio.

I think you'll find you'll be just fine.

Mike va3mw
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[W1KSZ]

It's a tad difficult to decipher ....

73, Dick, W1KSZ


On 4/24/2015 11:48 PM, Nick - VE3EY wrote:

> How far does your hard earned $$ go when purchasing an ham amplifier?
>
> I put a little spreadsheet together today.
>
> In addition to conventional "$ per watt" breakdown,  I have also included
> "$ per dBm".   It basically tells you how much each additional decibel of
> gain over 100 watt output power will cost you based on the estimated power
> output , purchase price and gain as compared to your typical barefoot rig.
>
> For power output I have made some rough estimates as to how much power a
> given amplifier can produce.   The prices I have collected today from
> various vendor or dealer web sites.   May not be entirely accurate but you
> get an idea.
>
>
> This table shows the breakdown sorted by $USD per 1 dBM column
>
> Amplifier model Pwr out Price ($USD) dBm over 100 watt *$USD per 1 dBm*
> $USD per watt Ameritron AL-811H 800 999 9.0 110.6 1.2 QRO HF-2500DX (used)
> 2000 2500 13.0 192.2 1.3 Acom 1010 700 1870 8.5 221.3 2.7 Alpha 99 (used)
> 2000 3000 13.0 230.6 1.5 Ameritron AL-82 1300 2995 11.1 268.9 2.3 Elecraft
> KPA500 600 2100 7.8 269.9 3.5 Acom 1000 1000 2750 10.0 275.0 2.8 Ameritron
> ALS-1306 1200 3000 10.8 278.0 2.5 Ameritron AL-1500 2200 3749 13.4 279.3
> 1.7 Ameritron AL-1200 1500 3349 11.8 284.8 2.2 Amplifier "X" 5000 5000 17.0
> 294.3 1.0 OM 2000+ 2000 4095 13.0 314.8 2.0 Acom 600S 700 2795 8.5 330.7
> 4.0 Acom 1500 1500 3990 11.8 339.3 2.7 QRO HF-3KDX 2200 4595 13.4 342.3 2.1
> SPE Expert 1.3k-FA w/o ATU 1200 3700 10.8 342.9 3.1 Alpha 8410 2000 4995
> 13.0 383.9 2.5 SPE Expert 1K-FA 1000 4000 10.0 400.0 4.0 OM-2500 HF 2500
> 5995 14.0 428.8 2.4 SPE Expert 1.3K-FA w/ATU 1200 5000 10.8 463.3 4.2 Acom
> 2000 2000 6490 13.0 498.8 3.2 OM-2500 A 2500 7095 14.0 507.5 2.8 Alpha 9500
> 2200 6995 13.4 521.1 3.2 SPE Expert 2K-FA 2200 7000 13.4 521.4 3.2
>
>
> Next table is sorted by conventional "$ per watt" column.
>
> Amplifier model Pwr out Price ($USD) dBm over 100 watt $USD per 1 dBm *$USD
> per watt* Amplifier "X" 5000 5000 17.0 294.3 1.0 Ameritron AL-811H 800 999
> 9.0 110.6 1.2 QRO HF-2500DX (used) 2000 2500 13.0 192.2 1.3 Alpha 99 (used)
> 2000 3000 13.0 230.6 1.5 Ameritron AL-1500 2200 3749 13.4 279.3 1.7 OM
> 2000+ 2000 4095 13.0 314.8 2.0 QRO HF-3KDX 2200 4595 13.4 342.3 2.1
> Ameritron AL-1200 1500 3349 11.8 284.8 2.2 Ameritron AL-82 1300 2995 11.1
> 268.9 2.3 OM-2500 HF 2500 5995 14.0 428.8 2.4 Alpha 8410 2000 4995 13.0
> 383.9 2.5 Ameritron ALS-1306 1200 3000 10.8 278.0 2.5 Acom 1500 1500 3990
> 11.8 339.3 2.7 Acom 1010 700 1870 8.5 221.3 2.7 Acom 1000 1000 2750 10.0
> 275.0 2.8 OM-2500 A 2500 7095 14.0 507.5 2.8 SPE Expert 1.3k-FA w/o ATU
> 1200 3700 10.8 342.9 3.1 Alpha 9500 2200 6995 13.4 521.1 3.2 SPE Expert
> 2K-FA 2200 7000 13.4 521.4 3.2 Acom 2000 2000 6490 13.0 498.8 3.2 Elecraft
> KPA500 600 2100 7.8 269.9 3.5 Acom 600S 700 2795 8.5 330.7 4.0 SPE Expert
> 1K-FA 1000 4000 10.0 400.0 4.0 SPE Expert 1.3K-FA w/ATU 1200 5000 10.8
> 463.3 4.2
> 73,  Nick
> ve3ey
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Merv Schweigert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I have 3 1/4 inch hard line running about 400 ft to the antennas will that
>> work ok?
>>
>> Its the fittings from 3 1/4 to a pl-259 that are the killer..
>>
>> 73 Merv K9FD/KH6
>>
>>   To all those comparing 500+ W versus 1500 W, and want instant on, with
>>> auto tracking the K3 in frequency, maybe you should consider the SPE/Expert
>>> 1.3K-FA.
>>>
>>> The desk space that it takes up is not much more than the KPA500, and it
>>> comes with a built in auto ATU.  It will reportedly put out up to1500 W.
>>> The price for the 3+dB gain in output is also increased, but less than 3 dB.
>>>
>>> Now if you want to cash in your 401K , SPE/Expert also offers the 2K-FA,
>>> which will be at least an S unit stronger than the KPA500 !   Again also
>>> with the auto tracking of the K3 and fully auto ATU.  However you may need
>>> to consider increasing the power handling of your coaxes and antennas !
>>>
>>> Chuck,  W7CS
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>>
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>
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[Bill Turner-2]

------------ ORIGINAL MESSAGE ------------(may be snipped)

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 07:09:23 +0000 (UTC), Harry wrote:

>I think some people take this HOBBY way to serious ;)

REPLY:

We should be grateful that they do. A lot of progress is made that
way.

73, Bill W6WRT
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[mcduffie]

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 07:09:23 +0000 (UTC), Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:

> I think some people take this HOBBY way to serious ;)

Define too serious.  I take it very seriously.  It's been with me since high
school and has been responsible for my entire career.  It's what I do.

Gary
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[Jim Brown-10]

On Fri,4/24/2015 11:48 PM, Nick - VE3EY wrote:
> "$ per dBm".

Hi Nick,

Interesting idea, but I find the table impossible to read without line
breaks.

To correct a fundamental error -- dBm is dB referenced to 1 mW. 1W is 30
dBm, 5W is 37 dBm, 100W is 50 dBm, 500W is 57 dBm, 600W (the output of a
KPA500) is 57.8 dBm, 1 kW is 60 dBm, and 1.5 kW ks 61.78 dBm. In other
words, dBm describes the power in Watts.

dB is 10 log (P2/P1). It's also 20 log (V2/V1) if the voltages are
measured in the same impedance. If we want to talk about power
referenced to 100W, the correct unit is dB, not dBm.

73, Jim K9YC


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[ktalbott]

QED

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 10:49 AM
To: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Considering a KPA-500

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 07:09:23 +0000 (UTC), Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:

> I think some people take this HOBBY way to serious ;)

Define too serious.  I take it very seriously.  It's been with me since high
school and has been responsible for my entire career.  It's what I do.

Gary
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[k6dgw]

Interesting idea, pretty hard to read.  If it had columns to start with,
they went away in the email for me -- maybe not for others.  The real
measure is $US/dB gained at the other end, but see below.

dBm is power in dB referenced to 1 mW.  1mW=0 dBm.  1W=+30 dBm.
100W=+50dBm.  700W [KPA500 full bars]=+58.45dBm.  1500W=+61.76 dBm

With larger powers measured in watts, it is common to use dBW -- power
in dB referenced to 1 watt.  1W=0dBW.  100W=+20dBw.  700W=+28.45dBW.
1500W=+31.76dBW.  dBW=10*log(power), which is a tad simpler.

1 S-unit is [nominally] 6 dB with S9=50uV at receiver input.  If the
input Z is 50 ohms, that equates to -73 dBm.

$US per S-unit at the other end sort of says it.  Would be interesting
to see what the $US per S-unit is for various antenna arrangements.
There is also a "panadapter gain" [similar to "coding gain"] in that
being able to watch the whole pile-up lets you find the guy he just
worked and gives you an advantage, in dB.  If you live in the middle of
the country, there is a "Stepp-ir gain" in that you can reverse that
antenna almost instantly in a contest.  I don't know how to quantify P3
gain or Stepp-ir gain however. :-)

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org


On 4/24/2015 11:48 PM, Nick - VE3EY wrote:

> In addition to conventional "$ per watt" breakdown,  I have also included
> "$ per dBm".   It basically tells you how much each additional decibel of
> gain over 100 watt output power will cost you based on the estimated power
> output , purchase price and gain as compared to your typical barefoot rig.
>
> For power output I have made some rough estimates as to how much power a
> given amplifier can produce.   The prices I have collected today from
> various vendor or dealer web sites.   May not be entirely accurate but you
> get an idea.

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[Elecraft mailing list]

It was a Joke to the OP since I also keep spreadsheets (The OP knew I was joking with him).

If you think this hobby is serious you should see my other hobby "Reef Aquariums".I tend to take that one far more serious, and for good reason.





      From: Bill Turner <[hidden email]>
 To: Elecraft <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 10:41 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Considering a KPA-500
   
------------ ORIGINAL MESSAGE ------------(may be snipped)

On Sat, 25 Apr 2015 07:09:23 +0000 (UTC), Harry wrote:

>I think some people take this HOBBY way to serious ;)

REPLY:

We should be grateful that they do. A lot of progress is made that
way.

73, Bill W6WRT


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[W7CS]

Actually, if the owner of a SPE/Expert 1.3K-FA chooses to bypass the
input attenuator, installed at the SPE factory, then the 1.3K-FA can
be driven to full output by a K3/10 or even a K2/10 .  This would
reduce the overall price difference between the KPA500/KAT500 and the
1.3K by the cost of the required 100 W options of the KPA3/KAT3 units.

W7CS

>In addition to conventional "$ per watt" breakdown,  I have also included
>"$ per dBm".   It basically tells you how much each additional decibel of
>gain over 100 watt output power will cost you based on the estimated power
>output , purchase price and gain as compared to your typical barefoot rig.
>
>For power output I have made some rough estimates as to how much power a
>given amplifier can produce.   The prices I have collected today from
>various vendor or dealer web sites.   May not be entirely accurate but you
>get an idea.
>In addition to conventional "$ per watt" breakdown,  I have also included
>"$ per dBm".   It basically tells you how much each additional decibel of
>gain over 100 watt output power will cost you based on the estimated power
>output , purchase price and gain as compared to your typical barefoot rig.
>
>For power output I have made some rough estimates as to how much power a
>given amplifier can produce.   The prices I have collected today from
>various vendor or dealer web sites.   May not be entirely accurate but you
>get an idea.

In addition to conventional "$ per watt" breakdown,  I have also included
"$ per dBm".   It basically tells you how much each additional decibel of
gain over 100 watt output power will cost you based on the estimated power
output , purchase price and gain as compared to your typical barefoot rig.

For power output I have made some rough estimates as to how much power a
given amplifier can produce.   The prices I have collected today from
various vendor or dealer web sites.   May not be entirely accurate but you
get an idea.





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