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Cruise Lines

Going on a cruise in a few months, so I emailed the cruise line about operating at sea with a KX2. Here is the reply: “Ham Radios, Shortwave Radios or Satellite Radios (portable or standalone) may not be brought on board as they pose a risk of interfering with onboard navigational equipment.” OK! The line has a right to say no. But...

I have operated my KX2 QRP 40m portable with a GPS and Laptop in the transmission RF envelope with no interference problems. I know maritime uses mostly 156-162 MHz for ship to ship or ship to shore, some specific HF frequencies (outside of our bands) are allocated for emergency communications and satellite navigation is typically 1150-1610 MHz. Most ships now have WiFi and rely on phone apps for on-board communication, so there are a few thousand phones on board operating in the GHz range that are no problem. Also, as a USN Sub Service vet I learned a few things about at-sea comms 40-some years ago, and considering the improvements in our technology...

Sorry if I seem to be ranting, but opportunities to operate at sea (for a OM in Ohio) are rare and this cruise line’s position seems to me to be the easy answer: ban all Hams outright.

Keeping Watch-
shu KE8KJZ

Joe Shuman
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Jeff Griffin

Re: Cruise Lines

Try a different cruise line. Last year AMSAT had their annual meeting on a cruise ship. Radio operation was allowed on HF VHF and UHF without any issues from the ships officers.

73 Jeff kb2m

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joseph Shuman via Elecraft
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2019 10:48 AM
To: Elecraft Mail Server
Subject: [Elecraft] Cruise Lines

Going on a cruise in a few months, so I emailed the cruise line about operating at sea with a KX2. Here is the reply: “Ham Radios, Shortwave Radios or Satellite Radios (portable or standalone) may not be brought on board as they pose a risk of interfering with onboard navigational equipment.” OK! The line has a right to say no. But...

I have operated my KX2 QRP 40m portable with a GPS and Laptop in the transmission RF envelope with no interference problems. I know maritime uses mostly 156-162 MHz for ship to ship or ship to shore, some specific HF frequencies (outside of our bands) are allocated for emergency communications and satellite navigation is typically 1150-1610 MHz. Most ships now have WiFi and rely on phone apps for on-board communication, so there are a few thousand phones on board operating in the GHz range that are no problem. Also, as a USN Sub Service vet I learned a few things about at-sea comms 40-some years ago, and considering the improvements in our technology...

Sorry if I seem to be ranting, but opportunities to operate at sea (for a OM in Ohio) are rare and this cruise line’s position seems to me to be the easy answer: ban all Hams outright.

Keeping Watch-
shu KE8KJZ

Joe Shuman
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David Bunte

Re: Cruise Lines

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Joe -

A few years ago tethered was a QCWA group that cruised in the Caribbean on
a Holland America ship. They had two stations set up with permission of the
Cruise Line. It turns out that the fellow who played in the Piano Bar each
evening was also a Ham and operated as well. I worked them from home on 40
CW. Then another friend went on an Alaska Cruise, also with Holland America
and secured permission to bring his QRP rig and a whip antenna that he
clamped to a deck railing to get on the air.

I realize that the most recent of these was about 7 or 8 years ago but my
guess is that you got the “standard” response, and would encourage you to
keep trying.

73 de Dave - K9FN

On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 10:49 AM Joseph Shuman via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Going on a cruise in a few months, so I emailed the cruise line about
> operating at sea with a KX2. Here is the reply: “Ham Radios, Shortwave
> Radios or Satellite Radios (portable or standalone) may not be brought on
> board as they pose a risk of interfering with onboard navigational
> equipment.” OK! The line has a right to say no. But...
>
> I have operated my KX2 QRP 40m portable with a GPS and Laptop in the
> transmission RF envelope with no interference problems. I know maritime
> uses mostly 156-162 MHz for ship to ship or ship to shore, some specific HF
> frequencies (outside of our bands) are allocated for emergency
> communications and satellite navigation is typically 1150-1610 MHz. Most
> ships now have WiFi and rely on phone apps for on-board communication, so
> there are a few thousand phones on board operating in the GHz range that
> are no problem. Also, as a USN Sub Service vet I learned a few things
> about at-sea comms 40-some years ago, and considering the improvements in
> our technology...
>
> Sorry if I seem to be ranting, but opportunities to operate at sea (for a
> OM in Ohio) are rare and this cruise line’s position seems to me to be the
> easy answer: ban all Hams outright.
>
> Keeping Watch-
> shu KE8KJZ
>
> Joe Shuman
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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John Oppenheimer

Re: Cruise Lines

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Hi Joe,

Some cruise lines do allow ham radio. A presentation:
https://wparc.us/presentations/Cruise-Ham-Radio-Presentation-1.pdf

KX3 on Carnival: https://www.kn5l.net/hp0/

John KN5L
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JP Douglas

Re: Cruise Lines

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Seems to me you can bring your radio on board, just not operate! What if
you want to operate on one of the stops???

I personally wouldn't have contacted the cruise line, I'd bring the
radio on board and talk to the captain, explaining you are doing HF and
not interfering whatsoever. You never know, maybe he's a ham.

I'm going to Ecuador in a couple of weeks, one of my HF radios is coming
with me...

73 de Jose Douglas KB1TCD

On 10/16/2019 10:48 AM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:

> Going on a cruise in a few months, so I emailed the cruise line about operating at sea with a KX2. Here is the reply: “Ham Radios, Shortwave Radios or Satellite Radios (portable or standalone) may not be brought on board as they pose a risk of interfering with onboard navigational equipment.” OK! The line has a right to say no. But...
>
> I have operated my KX2 QRP 40m portable with a GPS and Laptop in the transmission RF envelope with no interference problems. I know maritime uses mostly 156-162 MHz for ship to ship or ship to shore, some specific HF frequencies (outside of our bands) are allocated for emergency communications and satellite navigation is typically 1150-1610 MHz. Most ships now have WiFi and rely on phone apps for on-board communication, so there are a few thousand phones on board operating in the GHz range that are no problem. Also, as a USN Sub Service vet I learned a few things about at-sea comms 40-some years ago, and considering the improvements in our technology...
>
> Sorry if I seem to be ranting, but opportunities to operate at sea (for a OM in Ohio) are rare and this cruise line’s position seems to me to be the easy answer: ban all Hams outright.
>
> Keeping Watch-
> shu KE8KJZ
>
> Joe Shuman
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Daniel Solano Gómez

Re: Cruise Lines

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Hello, Joe,

Yeah, operating on a cruise line is tricky. I talked to someone a couple of weeks ago that organises cruises with amateur operation, and he made it clear it is not straightforward. I think the ARRL has a decent page on operting on international waters at <http://www.arrl.org/maritime-mobile-operation-in-international-waters>.

In particular, they talk about:

* You need to have permission from the cruise line to bring your radio on board, regardless of whether you operate on board

* Permission from the ship’s captain to operate on board

* Need to have reciprocal priveleges to operate in whatever territorial waters you happen to be in

* If the ship is in international waters, you are subject to the jurisdiction of the country to which the ship is registered. So, if it is a U.S.-registered ship (not likely), you follow part 97 rules as usual. Otherwise, you will need priveleges to operate in the country to which the ship is registered.

So, it’s not simple. Say you had permission from the cruise line and captain to operate on a cruise ship registered in Panama. While in U.S. territorial waters, U.S. rules apply. When you enter international waters, Panama rules apply. When you enter the territorial waters of a stop, e.g. Mexico, Jamaica, those rules apply.

Best wishes!

73,

Daniel, AG5UT

On mié oct 16 10:48 2019, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:

Kevin Cozens-2

Re: Cruise Lines

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

On 2019-10-16 10:48 a.m., Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:
> ???Ham Radios, Shortwave Radios or Satellite Radios (portable or
> standalone) may not be brought on board as they pose a risk of
> interfering with onboard navigational equipment.???

That sounds like they don't know much about the difference between receiving
only radios and ones that can also transmit. For a shortwave radio to cause
a problem for the onboard nav equipment there would have to be something
very wrong with either the shortwave radio or the navigation equipment.

Perhaps it is partly post-911 paranoia. The first time I went on a cruise
(several decades ago now), I took my Sony ICF 2010 shortwave radio on its
first vacation. In fact, I bought the radio not long before I was to go on
the cruise for that very purpose. It never occurred to me to ask if it was
ok to use onboard. I used it out in the open with the whip extended and no
one ever said anything about it.

--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/ | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |
#include <disclaimer/favourite> | --Chris Hardwick
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Rich-4

Re: Cruise Lines

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

I just went on Royal Caribbean and right in the list of prohibited
articles such as guns, knives, explosives etc. They list Ham Radio
equipment as prohibited.

Rich

K3RWN

On 10/16/2019 10:48 AM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:

N4ZR

Re: Cruise Lines

In reply to this post by Kevin Cozens-2

Good thing you didn't pick it up and talk into it ;^)

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 10/16/2019 12:26 PM, Kevin Cozens wrote:

> On 2019-10-16 10:48 a.m., Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:
>> ???Ham Radios, Shortwave Radios or Satellite Radios (portable or
>> standalone) may not be brought on board as they pose a risk of
>> interfering with onboard navigational equipment.???
>
> That sounds like they don't know much about the difference between
> receiving only radios and ones that can also transmit. For a shortwave
> radio to cause a problem for the onboard nav equipment there would
> have to be something very wrong with either the shortwave radio or the
> navigation equipment.
>
> Perhaps it is partly post-911 paranoia. The first time I went on a
> cruise (several decades ago now), I took my Sony ICF 2010 shortwave
> radio on its first vacation. In fact, I bought the radio not long
> before I was to go on the cruise for that very purpose. It never
> occurred to me to ask if it was ok to use onboard. I used it out in
> the open with the whip extended and no one ever said anything about it.
>

k6dgw

Re: Cruise Lines

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Don't know if this info will help but ... in 2005, we booked a cruise on
Princess from Ft. Lauderdale thru the Canal to Los Angeles. It was 16
days which was about 5 days too many, I really began to get tired of the
Big White Boat. The Canal transit was fantastic though. I wrote to
Princess asking to take my KX1, and included photos and specifications
of the radio, LiFePO4 battery [with DOT certification], and antenna as
any good engineer would do. The answer was swift ... "Absolutely not,
you might interfere with the [-------] which included navigation,
communications, lifeboat radios, microwave ovens, pool pumps, and
blenders in the bars, and it might start a fire among other such things
as we may think of."

On the premise that while HQ may think they're in charge the Captain
actually runs the ship, I took my wireless apparatus anyway. After
settling in, and noting the small size of our "balcony" which more
resembled a "shelf" and wondering how I was going to turn this into a
radio shack, I took my stuff to the purser's desk where I showed a very
young 8th or 9th officer my license, explained my radio, and answered
his questions. He was particularly interested in the KXPD1 touch
paddle. He told me I had the Captain's permission to use my radio while
at sea, but not in public spaces and I was not to remove any paint. He
willingly wrote this into my ARRL mini-logbook into which I also logged
a dozen Q's while in the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico, all SA.

Our cabin was on the port side [left as you face the pointy part of the
boat] which put a few thousand tons of steel between me and North
America for essentially the entire trip. I did hear one NA signal, very
weak, W9RE working some contest. In the end, trying to get something to
radiate from our "shelf" turned out to be quite a bit of trial and
error, and the thrill of operating afloat waned. I have a base-loaded
knock-off of an M1 whip, however the resonator looks an awful lot like a
pipe bomb on the airport X-Ray and I chose a random wire instead since
I'm already toast at TSA with braces on my legs and some scrap metal in
my shoulder.

Our kids gave us an Alaskan cruise for our 40th anniversary. It was
Holland America, I did the letter thing and they said "As long as you
have the proper license, you're welcome to bring your wireless device."
I ultimately left it home and just enjoyed the cruise. YMMV

73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/16/2019 7:48 AM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote:

Rick Tavan-2

Re: Cruise Lines

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Yes, cruise lines and their captains are all over the map on ham radio.
FWIW, I sailed from FO to VP6 in June/July this year with a letter of
authorization to operate in FO. On the M.S. Paul Gaugin, I requested and
received permission to operate on board. I first asked our cabin steward
who sent a junior officer from Engineering to talk to me. I explained that
I wanted to string an antenna across the pool deck, out of reach of people
and only while in use. He understood, took the request to a higher
authority, and relayed verbal permission back through the cabin steward. No
idea how high up the chain it went. I only operated on board for about an
hour while anchored off Pitcairn. It was fun but I was very weak. Did
better on land from FO.

Ponant Cruise Line recently bought the Gaugin. Dunno what that will do.
I've sailed with Ponant but never took radio gear.

/Rick N6XI

On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 7:49 AM Joseph Shuman via Elecraft <
[hidden email]> wrote:

--
--

Rick Tavan
Truckee and Saratoga, CA
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