Customer responsiveness

[DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL]

Bill said:

[snip]
N6KR:
>Some firmware functionality being added as we speak is not represented.
Example: how to select PTT CW vs. Full/Semi QSK (we got the message :)

         Bravo Elecraft!  It took Ten-Tec nearly a year
to get that same message on the original Orion.  :-(

                                         73,  Bill  W4ZV
[snip]

As I recall, TT also basically told their customers that, "This is not
a design flaw, this is how it is supposed to work." And further, even
argued back about what was and what was not necessary for their
customer's satisfaction.

Of course, my being a lurker as opposed to an Orion owner, my memory
may not be 100% (rarely is).

So this is a nice difference between E and TT (although it is possible
to track some other "developmental/production" similarities between
the two).

de Doug KR2Q
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[Igor Sokolov-2]

There is still no easy way to get CW PTT in K2 though. That is a pity.

73, Igor UA9CDC


: Bill said:
:
: [snip]
: N6KR:
: >Some firmware functionality being added as we speak is not represented.
: Example: how to select PTT CW vs. Full/Semi QSK (we got the message :)
:
:          Bravo Elecraft!  It took Ten-Tec nearly a year
: to get that same message on the original Orion.  :-(
:
:                                          73,  Bill  W4ZV
: [snip]
:
: As I recall, TT also basically told their customers that, "This is not
: a design flaw, this is how it is supposed to work." And further, even
: argued back about what was and what was not necessary for their
: customer's satisfaction.
:
: Of course, my being a lurker as opposed to an Orion owner, my memory
: may not be 100% (rarely is).
:
: So this is a nice difference between E and TT (although it is possible
: to track some other "developmental/production" similarities between
: the two).
:
: de Doug KR2Q
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[Roelof Bakker]

Hello Don,

"Those pin 1 places have round solder pads while the other pins are
rectangular pads and it is easy to miss the pin 1 solder connection and
not notice it."

This happened to me as well, when I build K2 #6177 in July.
The resistance check for the control board did not fit and an unsoldered pin
1 was the culprit. Just like you wrote the other day, I found that the pin
could be soldered from the top of the board. I used a small size (PT-K)
Weller tip and the damage to the IC socket was minimal and hardly
noticeable.
I made a few other mistakes; a cap with the wrong value in the VCO circuit
and a wrong cap across the IF transformer L34.
The biggest mistake was soldering a NE612 in the location of the MC1350 IF
amplifier.
Cutting the legs and removing them one by one was easy to do.
Fortunately I had a few NE612's lying around for some home brew projects, so
eventually no damage was done.

Though this might seem to be a kind of horror scenario, it was not. This
experience has largely improved my feeling that this is a rig I can fix
myself, when the need arises.
This was the main reason I bought it in the first place.

73,
Roelof, pa0rdt
Middelburg, Netherlands


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[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> As I recall, TT also basically told their customers that, "This is not
> a design flaw, this is how it is supposed to work." And further, even
> argued back about what was and what was not necessary for their
> customer's satisfaction.

Not only that ... TT do not learn from their mistakes.  The same fight
is being repeated over the Omni VII!  

Among other issues, most software and many interface hardware now
implement PTT in CW.  Any radio that is unable to deal with PTT
is a significant problem for the user who often does not understand
why his new rig does not work properly since his previous rig worked
fine.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

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[Brendan Minish]

On Mon, 2007-09-24 at 13:35 -0400, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> > As I recall, TT also basically told their customers that, "This is
> not
> > a design flaw, this is how it is supposed to work." And further,
> even
> > argued back about what was and what was not necessary for their
> > customer's satisfaction.
>
> Not only that ... TT do not learn from their mistakes.  The same fight
> is being repeated over the Omni VII!  
>

I am trying at the moment to add support for the OmniVII (without having
access to an OmniVII) to a well known logging package however it appears
that TT's programming reference manual may be wrong regarding the byte
order and data required to set the frequency

In addition to this it is just plain crazy to change the control format
for a new radio in such a way that it is completely incompatible with
previous radios from the same manufacturer, By all means add to the
capabilities of a protocol but don't completely alter the basics  

Multiple Emails for further information on this to both TT and RFsquared
have gone unanswered to date.

hardly a good approach if you want your product to have widespread
logging software support

Thankfully with Elecraft the K3 will build on the K2 protocol (which in
turn was built on the Kenwood protocol) and we all know how much more
responsive Elecraft are to Queries.

If anyone can help me with the orionVII serial protocol please contact
me off list.

73
Brendan EI6IZ



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[.hank.]

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> Among other issues, most software and many interface hardware now
> implement PTT in CW.  Any radio that is unable to deal with PTT
> is a significant problem for the user who often does not understand
> why his new rig does not work properly since his previous rig worked
> fine.
>
> 73,
>
>    ... Joe, W4TV

I certainly hope that the PTT function on CW did not end up
getting lost in the K3 & QSK thread.
That is the one major thing that I miss on the K2 - the ability
to use PTT with contest programs!

73    Hank    K8DD


--
---
If God intended you to be on single sideband,
he would have given you only one nostril.
- Steve, K2PTS (SK)
---

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Igor,

While not an 'easy way', there is a way.  Take a look at the CW PTT for
the K2 article on my website http://w3fpr.qrpradio.com.

The circuit interrupts the paddle lines (and the front panel mic PTT if
you add that part) until an external signal (active low) is received.

I have no circuit boards or other parts - I usually construct it on .1
inch perfboard with plated through holes.

73,
Don W3FPR

Igor Sokolov wrote:
> There is still no easy way to get CW PTT in K2 though. That is a pity.
>
> 73, Igor UA9CDC
>
>  
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[Greg - AB7R]

Not to worry.  The K3 will have FOUR PTT schemes:

1.  QSK
2.  Semi Break-in
3.  PTT only
4.  A cross-mode setup used in 6m and up - See FAQ under 6m for details (This feature
will probably be post first shipment).

Then of course there's the best VOX available that you will find anywhere. :)

-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Mon Sep 24 15:15 , hank k8dd  sent:

>Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>> Among other issues, most software and many interface hardware now
>> implement PTT in CW.  Any radio that is unable to deal with PTT
>> is a significant problem for the user who often does not understand
>> why his new rig does not work properly since his previous rig worked
>> fine.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>>    ... Joe, W4TV
>I certainly hope that the PTT function on CW did not end up
>getting lost in the K3 & QSK thread.
>That is the one major thing that I miss on the K2 - the ability
>to use PTT with contest programs!
>
>73    Hank    K8DD
>
>
>--
>---
>If God intended you to be on single sideband,
>he would have given you only one nostril.
>- Steve, K2PTS (SK)
>---
>
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[Tom Hammond-2]

Hank, et al:

At 14:15 09/24/2007, hank k8dd wrote:
>I certainly hope that the PTT function on CW did not end up
>getting lost in the K3 & QSK thread. That is the one major
>thing that I miss on the K2 - the ability
>to use PTT with contest programs!

Don't worry pal... it's DEFINITELY NOT BEEN IGNORED!

73,

Tom   N0SS

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[N6TR]

On Mon, Sep 24, 2007 at 03:15:06PM -0400, hank k8dd wrote:

> Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> >
> >Among other issues, most software and many interface hardware now
> >implement PTT in CW.  Any radio that is unable to deal with PTT
> >is a significant problem for the user who often does not understand
> >why his new rig does not work properly since his previous rig worked
> >fine.
> >
> >73,
> >
> >   ... Joe, W4TV
> I certainly hope that the PTT function on CW did not end up
> getting lost in the K3 & QSK thread.
> That is the one major thing that I miss on the K2 - the ability
> to use PTT with contest programs!

This works very well on the K3.  Even has a phono jack for the PTT input
on the rear panel.

73 Tree
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[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Glad to hear Elecraft is implementing "auto-sensed transmit CW", a necessity
for weak-signal DXing on VHF, where SSB and CW are often used interchangeably
on the same frequency. The way it was described in the FAQ, though, gave me
some concern, because it wasn't made clear that the auto-sensed (by code key
press) shift to CW mode (along with its automatic VFO offset) must be in vogue
ONLY in Transmit mode until such time as the rig is set to CW mode manually by
the operator. In other words, when the rig is being used in SSB mode and it
switches to CW Transmit automatically because of a code key press, it must
revert to SSB mode with all last-used SSB settings for Receive mode. This
would be true for both QSK and semi-break-in operation.

The whole idea of this is that one can switch to CW on the fly and still hear
the SSB station you are trying to talk to without retuning. Conversely, the
SSB station can hear your CW signal (because of the automatic frequency
offset) without retuning. This functional capability is the bottom line, and
unless the scheme implemented can do this, then it isn't as useful as it could
be.

This scheme is implemented as described in several (maybe all) of the recent
Yaesu transceivers that include 6M.

Bill / W5WVO


[hidden email] wrote:

> Not to worry.  The K3 will have FOUR PTT schemes:
>
> 1.  QSK
> 2.  Semi Break-in
> 3.  PTT only
> 4.  A cross-mode setup used in 6m and up - See FAQ under 6m for
> details (This feature will probably be post first shipment).
>
> Then of course there's the best VOX available that you will find
> anywhere. :)
>
> -------------------------
> 73,
> Greg - AB7R
> Whidbey Island WA
> NA-065
>
> On Mon Sep 24 15:15 , hank k8dd  sent:
>
>> Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>>
>>> Among other issues, most software and many interface hardware now
>>> implement PTT in CW.  Any radio that is unable to deal with PTT
>>> is a significant problem for the user who often does not understand
>>> why his new rig does not work properly since his previous rig worked
>>> fine.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>>    ... Joe, W4TV
>> I certainly hope that the PTT function on CW did not end up
>> getting lost in the K3 & QSK thread.
>> That is the one major thing that I miss on the K2 - the ability
>> to use PTT with contest programs!
>>
>> 73    Hank    K8DD
>>
>>
>> --
>> ---
>> If God intended you to be on single sideband,
>> he would have given you only one nostril.
>> - Steve, K2PTS (SK)
>> ---
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
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>
>
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[Greg - AB7R]

Bill,

The way you described is how implementation of this feature is planned.  But it
will not be available for initial shipment.  Wayne, Eric, Lyle and crew will have
to sleep for a couple days after FCS before tackling these additional features.  :)


-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Mon Sep 24 17:46 , "Bill W5WVO"  sent:

>Glad to hear Elecraft is implementing "auto-sensed transmit CW", a necessity
>for weak-signal DXing on VHF, where SSB and CW are often used interchangeably
>on the same frequency. The way it was described in the FAQ, though, gave me
>some concern, because it wasn't made clear that the auto-sensed (by code key
>press) shift to CW mode (along with its automatic VFO offset) must be in vogue
>ONLY in Transmit mode until such time as the rig is set to CW mode manually by
>the operator. In other words, when the rig is being used in SSB mode and it
>switches to CW Transmit automatically because of a code key press, it must
>revert to SSB mode with all last-used SSB settings for Receive mode. This
>would be true for both QSK and semi-break-in operation.
>
>The whole idea of this is that one can switch to CW on the fly and still hear
>the SSB station you are trying to talk to without retuning. Conversely, the
>SSB station can hear your CW signal (because of the automatic frequency
>offset) without retuning. This functional capability is the bottom line, and
>unless the scheme implemented can do this, then it isn't as useful as it could
>be.
>
>This scheme is implemented as described in several (maybe all) of the recent
>Yaesu transceivers that include 6M.
>
>Bill / W5WVO
>
>
>[hidden email] wrote:
>> Not to worry.  The K3 will have FOUR PTT schemes:
>>
>> 1.  QSK
>> 2.  Semi Break-in
>> 3.  PTT only
>> 4.  A cross-mode setup used in 6m and up - See FAQ under 6m for
>> details (This feature will probably be post first shipment).
>>
>> Then of course there's the best VOX available that you will find
>> anywhere. :)
>>
>> -------------------------
>> 73,
>> Greg - AB7R
>> Whidbey Island WA
>> NA-065
>>
>> On Mon Sep 24 15:15 , hank k8dd  sent:
>>
>>> Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Among other issues, most software and many interface hardware now
>>>> implement PTT in CW.  Any radio that is unable to deal with PTT
>>>> is a significant problem for the user who often does not understand
>>>> why his new rig does not work properly since his previous rig worked
>>>> fine.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>>    ... Joe, W4TV
>>> I certainly hope that the PTT function on CW did not end up
>>> getting lost in the K3 & QSK thread.
>>> That is the one major thing that I miss on the K2 - the ability
>>> to use PTT with contest programs!
>>>
>>> 73    Hank    K8DD
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ---
>>> If God intended you to be on single sideband,
>>> he would have given you only one nostril.
>>> - Steve, K2PTS (SK)
>>> ---
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Post to: [hidden email]
>>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>>
>>
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>
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[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

[hidden email] wrote:

> The way you described is how implementation of this feature is
> planned.  But it will not be available for initial shipment.

Totally cool.  :-)   Can't wait. Thanks for listening, Elecraft!

One other possible related feature enhancement that is present on the FT-2000:
They have three settings for the auto-sensed CW mode: OFF, 50, and ON. "OFF"
is no auto-sensed CW ever. "50" is auto-sensed CW on 6M only, not on HF. "ON"
is the feature works on all bands. This makes some sense, but it's probably a
frill -- "implement if easy and there's time" kind of thing. Though it does
sound like an additional logic step that could be implemented in a couple
lines of code. Maybe just one.  :-)

Bill W5WVO

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