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D 104

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k5oai

Re: Fwd: D 104

ok since this thread has assumed the usual endless back and forth,
and before it is ended by the powers that be,
I'd like to repeat what I said when I first answered,

I now use an amplified D-104 on my K3
yes it does some impedance transformation magic,
that's not why I use it, it just has a prettier finish
than the un amplified one I have.

I have a local blind ham who has run an audio board
for recording studios and bans for the last 30 years
he has known me for the last 20 years,
so he knows my natural voice.

He helped me set up the K3's EQ and mike gain
for the amplified D-104 to where
it sounds exactly like I do in person

I then switched to the un amplified D-104,
the sound (frequency responses) were exactly the same!

I also have one of the ceramic heads,
nicknamed the D-104 Sideband Head.

I then swapped around the 3 different mikes and elements
others that listened were completely unable
to tell which mike and element I was using,
the all sounded good and identical in response.

So my vote is for the position that says
when the K3's EQ and mike gain are set up correctly
you can't tell a bloody bit of difference!

P.S. just to muddy the waters further
I also bought one of the Yamaha 400 headsets
and after adding the voltage required to the rear mike jack
again you can't tell the difference from the D-104's
all get glowing 'natural' audio reports

and that's my 2 cents
over

GB & 73
K5OAI
Sam Morgan

On 6/4/2011 8:42 PM, Paul Christensen wrote:

>> Then why not just put a 1 megohm or so resistor in series with the mic
>> element. I believe the K3 mic input has adequate gain to compensate for
>> it, and it will keep the crystal (or ceramic) mic element happy.
>> The KISS principle applies - a resistor is much more simple than an FET
>> or a transformer.
>
> Plenty of folks have been doing that for decades with their D-104 mics.
> It's fine unless you want to optimize SNR as the source Z of the generator
> (D-104) increases by the amount of the added resistance . I've tried it
> both ways, and a JFET configured either as a source-follower or
> common-source amp with a J201 JFET has always been noticeably quieter when
> compared to the addition of a single resistor after mic element.
>
> For the K3, it's easy to optimize the D-104 with a JFET by using exactly two
> parts: a pair of resistors. That's just two more parts than one 1 meg-ohm
> resistor. In the K3 menu, one simply activates mic bias. When using a
> JFET as a common-source amplifier, the drain resistor is supplied by the K3
> (R89 = 5.6K). A 1uF cap also internal to the K3 (C28) isolates audio from
> the DC bias injection. That leaves only a source resistor and gate leak
> resistor. Sure, not quite as economical as a single 1 meg resistor after
> the mic element, but with only three total parts, I find that the added
> performance more than offsets the addition of a two more parts. In one of
> my D-104 mics, the JFET and two resistors are mounted with adhesive tape
> right on the back of the D-104 element. It doesn't get much simpler.
>
> The JFET is functioning only as an impedance transformation device -- it is
> not matching impedance, nor does it need to for the reasons cited by you and
> K9YC.
>
> Paul, W9AC

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Guy, K2AV

Re: Fwd: D 104

Well, that's wonderful procedure for someone who has a rich easy to
understand voice. Really.

I don't have such a voice. Even when I'm trying to stage project, I sound
like I'm talking through a muffle.

What the K3 voice processing does for me is to elevate the highs enough so
that a spectrogram of my speech actually has highs at the same level as my
lows. It really does NOT sound like me, but the processed voice is clear,
crisp and easily understandable, without harshness. The processing also
keeps that at an even full level, so that there is some "loudness" to the
PEP. As reported by others, it sounds like I gave the mike to another op
and turned on the amp.

I found this very hard to set up until I had the DVR. Once I could play
back it was a matter of an evening of diddling and watching spectrogram.
Then I got on a very QRNish 75m round table and did not bother to turn on
the amp. I was heard by everyone, and they told me to throw away my old
microphone. I didn't bother to enlighten them.

I have my highs and lows set for a 20 db differential with my mid-tones on
the low side of a ramp function. I run "CMP" at 21. Usual business of
keeping ALC meter at 4-5-6 bars.

I'm going to redo all my N1MM audio alphabet and phrase files with the line
out from the K3 run at flat EQ off the mike I will be using.

73, Guy

On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Sam Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok since this thread has assumed the usual endless back and forth,
> and before it is ended by the powers that be,
> I'd like to repeat what I said when I first answered,
>
> I now use an amplified D-104 on my K3
> yes it does some impedance transformation magic,
> that's not why I use it, it just has a prettier finish
> than the un amplified one I have.
>
> I have a local blind ham who has run an audio board
> for recording studios and bans for the last 30 years
> he has known me for the last 20 years,
> so he knows my natural voice.
>
> He helped me set up the K3's EQ and mike gain
> for the amplified D-104 to where
> it sounds exactly like I do in person
>
> I then switched to the un amplified D-104,
> the sound (frequency responses) were exactly the same!
>
> I also have one of the ceramic heads,
> nicknamed the D-104 Sideband Head.
>
> I then swapped around the 3 different mikes and elements
> others that listened were completely unable
> to tell which mike and element I was using,
> the all sounded good and identical in response.
>
> So my vote is for the position that says
> when the K3's EQ and mike gain are set up correctly
> you can't tell a bloody bit of difference!
>
> P.S. just to muddy the waters further
> I also bought one of the Yamaha 400 headsets
> and after adding the voltage required to the rear mike jack
> again you can't tell the difference from the D-104's
> all get glowing 'natural' audio reports
>
> and that's my 2 cents
> over
>
> GB & 73
> K5OAI
> Sam Morgan
>
> On 6/4/2011 8:42 PM, Paul Christensen wrote:
> >> Then why not just put a 1 megohm or so resistor in series with the mic
> >> element. I believe the K3 mic input has adequate gain to compensate for
> >> it, and it will keep the crystal (or ceramic) mic element happy.
> >> The KISS principle applies - a resistor is much more simple than an FET
> >> or a transformer.
> >
> > Plenty of folks have been doing that for decades with their D-104 mics.
> > It's fine unless you want to optimize SNR as the source Z of the
> generator
> > (D-104) increases by the amount of the added resistance . I've tried it
> > both ways, and a JFET configured either as a source-follower or
> > common-source amp with a J201 JFET has always been noticeably quieter
> when
> > compared to the addition of a single resistor after mic element.
> >
> > For the K3, it's easy to optimize the D-104 with a JFET by using exactly
> two
> > parts: a pair of resistors. That's just two more parts than one 1
> meg-ohm
> > resistor. In the K3 menu, one simply activates mic bias. When using a
> > JFET as a common-source amplifier, the drain resistor is supplied by the
> K3
> > (R89 = 5.6K). A 1uF cap also internal to the K3 (C28) isolates audio
> from
> > the DC bias injection. That leaves only a source resistor and gate leak
> > resistor. Sure, not quite as economical as a single 1 meg resistor after
> > the mic element, but with only three total parts, I find that the added
> > performance more than offsets the addition of a two more parts. In one
> of
> > my D-104 mics, the JFET and two resistors are mounted with adhesive tape
> > right on the back of the D-104 element. It doesn't get much simpler.
> >
> > The JFET is functioning only as an impedance transformation device -- it
> is
> > not matching impedance, nor does it need to for the reasons cited by you
> and
> > K9YC.
> >
> > Paul, W9AC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Nr4c

Re: D 104

In reply to this post by CHARLES WHITE

Heil has a really nice 8 pin mic connector (I think it's referred to as a
"Foster" connector) and it's about the same price as the one from Radio
Shack but has bit more room inside and fits the radio connector better. HRO
has them for $8 to $10 for pack of two.

...bill nr4c

-----Original Message-----
From: CHARLES WHITE [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 1:23 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] D 104

I would like to connect a D 104 mike to the K3 but the D 104 is a 4 pin jack
and the K3 is 8 pins.

I have not been able to find a 8 pin jack for the mike at either MOUSER or
DIGIKEY suppliers.

Does any one use the D104 with the K3?

Any advise?

Thanks

Charlie White
K6TBB
San Diego
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k6dgw

Re: Fwd: D 104

In reply to this post by Hank Garretson

An aerodynamics engineer will tell you a bumblebee cannot fly. Plug it
in, front or rear, set the MIC SEL menu appropriately and see how it
works. I have a very old "Dispatcher" "variable reluctance" mic. I
have no idea if it is Hi-Z or Lo-Z, and I don't know it's freq
response. It worked fine when I tried it on the K3.

Fred K6DGW

On 6/4/2011 10:48 PM, Hank Garretson wrote:
> I've made tens of thousands of SSB contacts using a fifty-year-old D-104
> directly into the K3 with no resistors, no amplifiers, no transformers, no
> nothing. Audio quality reports were always outstanding.
>
> Don't let the naysayers discourage you. Try it. It will work just fine.

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