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So, if we are going to annoy someone, that means we can't do it? What? Then we shouldn't be working on getting into space, that is likley to annoy someone... the folks that live there for one... and I don't want to go any further with that one.... Or.. we don't want to go to the park tomorrow.. we might annoy someone that would have used the picnic table we are using... We don't want to go ... ok.. get it? How about this... can't use cw anywhere... it annoys someone... just try it on 14.230.. or ... Don't use your K3, cause it annoys those that can't hear as well as you do.... Man, that irritates me... when they can't hear my K2, ..... BANG! goes that theory... ok, so... why not USB where ever? Cause folks want to talk to folks.. and there is a reverse switch on most all the rigs... if you want to run USB somewhere... and someone doesn't choose to switch.. guess its gonna be tuff to talk to 'em, my suggestion? use cw, or digital.... or ........ I'm gonna go get on the air... want a chat?... or need a qsl? .. I have new ones... and I am workin through the "to answer" stack.. but if you sent one and didn't get one... email me... if you need one and need a Q... email me. Hey, I'm only tryin to help those that need a card from Wy. k? --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy I've got a face for radio.. and a voice for cw... Heard that or saw it somewhere... cute huh? _________________________________________________________________ E-mail for the greater good. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ GreaterGood_______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Brian Lloyd-6
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On Sat, 24 May 2008 20:33:38 -0700, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>True, Brian. > >A few years ago a buddy and I were chatting on the air with our K2s >comparing the performance of the filters. As part of our testing we made >sure we had no adjacent frequency signals and then switched sidebands back >and forth to see how the rigs sounded. > >A guy broke into our QSO berating us for transmitting on an "illegal" >sideband for that band. > >I think Ian may have touched on the source of his misunderstanding about the >IARU adopting the current sequence of sidebands used. I don't know if other >countries have rules about that, but the USA does not. > >But the breaker on our frequency wasn't hearing that. He KNEW we were the >scum of the bands for our continued illegal act ivies and was quick to point >that out! His position was that if what we were doing was not illegal yet, >it should be. > >My concern here is that as the Ham bands become more and more populated with >non-technical "operators", no matter how skilled at operating they might be, >many will tend to want to legislate more and more uniformity in Ham >operations. That can quickly get in the way of free-ranging experimentation, >simply playing with old or unusual modes of communications or doing >anything they don't agree supports their personal goals. > >We need room for both as we always have: those for whom their goal in the >hobby is to be the best possible "operator", based on their DX, contest >scores or their participation in public service activities, and those for >whom the hobby is a venue for experimentation and tinkering with equipment. > >We Amateur Radio Operators have contributed greatly in both arenas over the >years. I hope we will continue to do so. But it requires the freedom for >some Hams to do something many others think is absurd, obviously useless and >wasteful of spectrum space while the experimenters take care not to abuse >their privileges within the rules. > >Of course there will always be those who believe the others should be shut >down. > >It's up to the rest of us to keep both camps relaxed and tolerant as much as >we can. > >Ron AC7AC > Ron, When someone tells you are using the wrong sideband, just say that you are trying to be diverse by giving each sideband their fair share of use/implementation ;O) Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" An excerpt from a letter written in 1755 from the Assembly to the Governor of Pennsylvania. Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like. http://www.n5ge.com http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
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In reply to this post by w6jd
Way before his time: that little ditty is ascribed to
Robert McCloskey, State Department spokesman, Vietnam war era. Used by many since, like so many good sayings. Churchill was good at it too. David G3UNA > Thank you Alan Greenspan!! > > Doug > W6JD > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: Lyle Johnson <[hidden email]> > >> Thank you for the clarifications Ian. >> >> > ... All it needs to swap >> > sidebands is a few changes from "+" to "-" in the DSP code, and to link >> > that to the band selector. It's all done for us in the K3... but are >> > you >> > *sure* you got those signs right, Lyle? :-) >> >> "I know you believe you understand what you think I wrote, but I am not >> sure you realize that what you read is not exactly what I meant." >> >> :-) >> >> 73, >> >> Lyle KK7P >> Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by N5GE
In reply to a similar question at Dayton, Riley Hollingsworth
specifically addressed the legitimacy of hams using LSB on 20 meters and above, and USB on 40 meters and below ("with the possible exception of 160 meters" which drew a laugh from the crowd). The convention currently in use is merely traditional and reflects military preference for standardization (due to channelization) promulgated in the early days of SSB. K9ZTV _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by daleputnam
G'day,
<snipo> So, if we are going to annoy someone, that means we can't do it? What? Then we shouldn't be working on getting into space, that is likley to annoy someone... the folks that live there for one... <snipo> Too right. The surest sign that there is intelligent life out there is that they haven't tried to contact us. Regards, Mike VP8NO _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by hf4me
>The convention currently in use is merely traditional and reflects
>military preference for standardization (due to channelization) >promulgated in the early days of SSB. LSB use on 40m and below is *strictly* a HAM convention. Military, commercial marine, and civil aviation standardized on USB from the very earliest days of the SSB era. Almost all *early* non-shipboard US military sideband sets offered *only* USB mode. This includes the late 1950s USAF AN/ARC-65 and the USN AN/ARC-38A sets for aircraft, and the AN/GRC-106 and AN/PRC-47 for ground service. These were among the earliest SSB sets in common military use. The succeeding generation of sets offered selectable sideband. This includes the USAF AN/ARC-58, USN AN/ARC-94 (618T-2), AN/FRC-93 (KWM-2A), AN/URC-32, AN/URC-58 and AN/GRC-165 (Harris RF-301), AN/PRC-74, RT-618/URC, T-827/URT, R-1051/URR, etc. But these all date from the early 1960s and later, long after HAMs had settled on LSB on 40m and below. Even though some later sets offered LSB, or even ISB, it was almost never used. When I was associated with US military communication systems, the only time I ever saw LSB used on a military frequency was on Military Affilliated Radio System (MARS) nets. Since MARS is comprised mainly of HAMs, years ago *some* circuits followed the HAM convention for net frequencies below about 7.5 MHz. But even MARS eventually went completely to USB. Mike / KK5F _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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As long as I worked for Marconi Marine and later Mackay Radio, I don't ever
remember having a shipboard receiver that would work lower sideband. I have a Siemens E-410 solid state set that is absolutely top notch and has provisions for a LSB module, but I have never been able to find one! The DEBEG guys in Germany, who I got a service manual from never recalled even seeing a LSB module. I had a couple of them\ looking in flea markets there and they never turned up one. Letters to DEBEG and Siemens turned up nothing. Siemens says they didn't make many modules and had none in stock at any price. I had a PRC-74 for a good while and finally sold it as there was no LSB. Helluva a good working and very rugged radio. 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Morrow" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 11:07 AM Subject: [Elecraft] Re: USB on all bands ?? > >The convention currently in use is merely traditional and reflects >>military preference for standardization (due to channelization) >>promulgated in the early days of SSB. > > LSB use on 40m and below is *strictly* a HAM convention. Military, > commercial marine, and civil aviation standardized on USB from the > very earliest days of the SSB era. > > Almost all *early* non-shipboard US military sideband sets offered > *only* USB mode. This includes the late 1950s USAF AN/ARC-65 and > the USN AN/ARC-38A sets for aircraft, and the AN/GRC-106 and AN/PRC-47 > for ground service. These were among the earliest SSB sets in common > military use. > > The succeeding generation of sets offered selectable sideband. This > includes the USAF AN/ARC-58, USN AN/ARC-94 (618T-2), AN/FRC-93 (KWM-2A), > AN/URC-32, AN/URC-58 and AN/GRC-165 (Harris RF-301), AN/PRC-74, > RT-618/URC, T-827/URT, R-1051/URR, etc. But these all date from the > early 1960s and later, long after HAMs had settled on LSB on 40m and > below. > > Even though some later sets offered LSB, or even ISB, it was almost > never used. When I was associated with US military communication systems, > the only time I ever saw LSB used on a military frequency was on Military > Affilliated Radio System (MARS) nets. Since MARS is comprised mainly > of HAMs, years ago *some* circuits followed the HAM convention for net > frequencies below about 7.5 MHz. But even MARS eventually went > completely to USB. > > Mike / KK5F > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1465 - Release Date: 5/25/2008 1:22 PM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by KK7P
Hi,
Had to throw my 2 cents worth in. Personally I would welcome a shift to USB on the lower bands, but I am not very optimistic it will happen. With DSP, adding LSB to any radio is practically without cost (example K3: nil (ALT is required by some CW ops) except for a few engineering hours) so there is no great incentive for manufacturers to drop the LSB selection. I operate mainly above 10MHz so I find that the few times I go on the lower bands, I am a klutz tuning because my brain tells me to tune in the opposite direction of what is actually needed. So here is a request for a new feature: An option to reverse the tuning direction of the tuning knob (per band). Anybody else feeling a need for this luxury feature? Knut - AB2TC
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In reply to this post by N5GE
Comments below.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Childers, N5GE" <[hidden email]> To: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] USB on all bands ?? On Sat, 24 May 2008 20:33:38 -0700, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> wrote: >True, Brian. > >A few years ago a buddy and I were chatting on the air with our K2s >comparing the performance of the filters. As part of our testing we made >sure we had no adjacent frequency signals and then switched sidebands back >and forth to see how the rigs sounded. > >A guy broke into our QSO berating us for transmitting on an "illegal" >sideband for that band. > >I think Ian may have touched on the source of his misunderstanding about >the >IARU adopting the current sequence of sidebands used. I don't know if other >countries have rules about that, but the USA does not. > >But the breaker on our frequency wasn't hearing that. He KNEW we were the >scum of the bands for our continued illegal act ivies and was quick to >point >that out! His position was that if what we were doing was not illegal yet, >it should be. > >My concern here is that as the Ham bands become more and more populated >with >non-technical "operators", no matter how skilled at operating they might >be, >many will tend to want to legislate more and more uniformity in Ham >operations. That can quickly get in the way of free-ranging >experimentation, >simply playing with old or unusual modes of communications or doing >anything they don't agree supports their personal goals. > >We need room for both as we always have: those for whom their goal in the >hobby is to be the best possible "operator", based on their DX, contest >scores or their participation in public service activities, and those for >whom the hobby is a venue for experimentation and tinkering with equipment. > >We Amateur Radio Operators have contributed greatly in both arenas over the >years. I hope we will continue to do so. But it requires the freedom for >some Hams to do something many others think is absurd, obviously useless >and >wasteful of spectrum space while the experimenters take care not to abuse >their privileges within the rules. > >Of course there will always be those who believe the others should be shut >down. > >It's up to the rest of us to keep both camps relaxed and tolerant as much >as >we can. > >Ron AC7AC > Ron, When someone tells you are using the wrong sideband, just say that you are trying to be diverse by giving each sideband their fair share of use/implementation ;O) Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq Or you could simply state that you had been trying a fully legal mode at reduced power, AM. That mode uses both sidebands at the same time regardless of the band being transmitted on (80, 40, 20, 160, etc.). "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" An excerpt from a letter written in 1755 from the Assembly to the Governor of Pennsylvania. Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like. http://www.n5ge.com http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE Tom, I like the tag lines you use. Very thought provoking and timely. Keep it up. 73, Jim KD5VXH _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by w5tvw
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In reply to this post by hf4me
>I had a PRC-74 for a good while and finally sold it as there was no LSB.
You're right about it not having LSB, Sandy. I've got an AN/PRC-74B that I've never fired up, so I had forgotten that it should not have been on my list of LSB-capable military sets. At least the 74B covers 20 meters (it goes up to 18 MHz), unlike the earlier models that only covered up to 12 MHz. That makes those models in practice CW-only in the ham bands below 7.3 MHz, except for those five USB 60 meter channels. FWIW, I'd be happy with a shift to USB on all bands, but there's some vintage ham gear out there that might not be readily adaptable. The only real plus to LSB mode is that signal pitch gets higher as the receiver is tuned higher, which seems more natural to me. But it isn't an important issue. It's like tax reform...a good idea that will never happen. 73, Mike / KK5F _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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One time I heard a guy on 20m using LSB. I switched my rig over to
LSB, and we had a nice QSO. During the QSO, it turned out that he had attended Ohio State University. Well, seeing as how I live in Ann Arbor, MI (home of the University of MIchigan), I had a good chuckle at his expense over his use of LSB. Fortunately, no one reprimanded us for using the "wrong" sideband. 73! Dan KB6NU ---------------------------------------------------------- CW Geek and MI Affiliated Club Coordinator Read my ham radio blog at http://www.kb6nu.com LET'S REALLY MAKE THE ARRL THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR HAM RADIO On May 25, 2008, at 2:53 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > Try a CQ on the "other" sideband. Sure, most ops won't copy but > those who > will might produce an interesting QSO. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by AC7AC
On 5/25/2008 11:53 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> Try a CQ on the "other" sideband. Sure, most ops won't copy but those > who will might produce an interesting QSO. > > If they have an Elecraft rig, it won't matter, since it covers both > sidebands. IIRC the Hallicrafters rigs that I used 45 years ago - SX101A receiver, HT-44B transmitter - had capability for operation on either sideband as well as AM and CW. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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All my Drake rigs, T-4X(B,C) and TR-4C along with the R-4(ABC) work both
side bands on all bands. My Swan 240 doesn't, but it was a bare bones rig when new. It covers 80 & 40 on lower and 20 on upper. They all use the 5 and 9 MC system. Kurt W7QHD _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by hf4me
They sure did, and received them both simultaneously!
73 Art Also ex boat anchor user ------------------- K2ASP wrote: IIRC the Hallicrafters rigs that I used 45 years ago - SX101A receiver, HT-44B transmitter - had capability for operation on either sideband as well as AM and CW. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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