Different mode

[Larry Godek]

I want to try FSK144 and JT-65A on Monday.  Should i be in USB or Data mode?  Should i stay below the 30W level?  First time to try this on 6 meters or any band for that matter so not sure what parameters i should be using or operating under.

I'm plugged directly into the sound card on the Pc so i'll have to play with the transmit level a bit i suspect to keep the signal as clean as possible.  If i set the transmit signal up for PSK31 then it should be ok with the other modes i would think?  Maybe maybe not.  Any help here?

As far as keying the transmitter, it should work with VOX turned on right?

Larry
W0OGH

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[W7GJ, Lance]

Hi Larry,

[hidden email] wrote:
> I want to try FSK144 and JT-65A on Monday.  Should i be in USB or Data mode?

I have always just used USB.

> Should i stay below the 30W level?

I have had no problem running it at full power.

  First time to try this on 6 meters or any band
> for that matter so not sure what parameters i should be using or operating under.
>
> I'm plugged directly into the sound card on the Pc so i'll have to play with the
> transmit level a bit i suspect to keep the signal as clean as possible.  

Just set the ALC the same as you would on SSB - 4 to 5 bars.  WSJT is very clean.

If i set
> the transmit signal up for PSK31 then it should be ok with the other modes i would
> think?  Maybe maybe not.  Any help here?
>
> As far as keying the transmitter, it should work with VOX turned on right?
>
> Larry W0OGH

You COULD use it with VOX turned on.  However, when I am portable I always use it
with the PTT set so that either serial line can turn it on.

GL and VY 73, Lance
>
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--
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX)
P.O. Box 73
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QTH: DN27UB
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[Julian, G4ILO]

telegrapher wrote

I want to try FSK144 and JT-65A on Monday.  Should i be in USB or Data mode?  Should i stay below the 30W level?  First time to try this on 6 meters or any band for that matter so not sure what parameters i should be using or operating under.

I'm plugged directly into the sound card on the Pc so i'll have to play with the transmit level a bit i suspect to keep the signal as clean as possible.  If i set the transmit signal up for PSK31 then it should be ok with the other modes i would think?  Maybe maybe not.  Any help here?

As far as keying the transmitter, it should work with VOX turned on right?

I use DATA A. You want compression disabled (and equalization disabled, coming soon!) and selecting DATA A does that. The ALC in DATA A is also optimized for steady average level audio signals so it won't cause any IMD problems, not that it is normally much of an issue with FSK modes. I use exactly the same audio levels as for PSK.

The K3 is rated for 100W output for 10 minutes, so full power should not cause any problems. The fans will just have to work harder for a living.

I have never used VOX. Why would you need to? If you have a fully wired serial cable between the K3 and PC then just set WSJT to use that COM port and in the K3 menu configure PTT to use RTS.

[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Julian, G4ILO wrote:

> I have never used VOX. Why would you need to? If you have a fully
> wired serial cable between the K3 and PC then just set WSJT to use
> that COM port and in the K3 menu configure PTT to use RTS.

Julian et al.,

I have always used VOX for WSJT keying, so I tried setting it up for RTS control
as you suggest above. But when I try to configure the K3 for ether PTT=RTS or
PTT=DTR with NO RS232-controlling application (like WSJT) running, the rig keys
up (and switches into TEST mode automatically as per the manual). If I then
disconnect the serial cable at the laptop serial connector, the keyed condition
disappears.

My conclusion is that the laptop's serial port is asserting RTS and DTR
full-time for some reason. It's a 2-year-old Dell Latitude D820, Core2
processor, 2 GHz, 2 GB RAM, running XP Home. It has one true RS232 port (COM1),
the one I'm using. Flow control is set to NONE, so it should not be asserting
these lines by default. Has anyone ever encountered this?

Bill W5WVO

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[David Christ]

It may be a too obvious comment, but the easiest way to tell what is
going on is with a serial breakout box.  If you get one with LEDs you
can visually watch the status of the control and data lines in real
time.

David K0LUM

At 1:41 PM -0600 9/26/09, Bill W5WVO wrote:

>Julian, G4ILO wrote:
>
>>  I have never used VOX. Why would you need to? If you have a fully
>>  wired serial cable between the K3 and PC then just set WSJT to use
>>  that COM port and in the K3 menu configure PTT to use RTS.
>
>Julian et al.,
>
>I have always used VOX for WSJT keying, so I tried setting it up for
>RTS control
>as you suggest above. But when I try to configure the K3 for ether PTT=RTS or
>PTT=DTR with NO RS232-controlling application (like WSJT) running,
>the rig keys
>up (and switches into TEST mode automatically as per the manual). If I then
>disconnect the serial cable at the laptop serial connector, the
>keyed condition
>disappears.
>
>My conclusion is that the laptop's serial port is asserting RTS and DTR
>full-time for some reason. It's a 2-year-old Dell Latitude D820, Core2
>processor, 2 GHz, 2 GB RAM, running XP Home. It has one true RS232
>port (COM1),
>the one I'm using. Flow control is set to NONE, so it should not be asserting
>these lines by default. Has anyone ever encountered this?
>
>Bill W5WVO
>
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[Julian, G4ILO]

Bill W5WVO wrote

Julian et al.,

I have always used VOX for WSJT keying, so I tried setting it up for RTS control
as you suggest above. But when I try to configure the K3 for ether PTT=RTS or
PTT=DTR with NO RS232-controlling application (like WSJT) running, the rig keys
up (and switches into TEST mode automatically as per the manual). If I then
disconnect the serial cable at the laptop serial connector, the keyed condition
disappears.

My conclusion is that the laptop's serial port is asserting RTS and DTR
full-time for some reason. It's a 2-year-old Dell Latitude D820, Core2
processor, 2 GHz, 2 GB RAM, running XP Home. It has one true RS232 port (COM1),
the one I'm using. Flow control is set to NONE, so it should not be asserting
these lines by default. Has anyone ever encountered this?

For many years I have used RTS for PTT and CW keying with various software and radios and I have never come across this. Normally if the rig is switched on when the computer starts up the RTS (PTT) is briefly toggled three times during the startup procedures but it is always left on the off position. It seems an unlikely thing for Dell to deliberately do, so I wonder if you have some program or driver that tries to scan the serial ports at start-up and leaves RTS / DTR in the wrong state afterwards.

There is one program I find that leaves RTS on when it closes and very annoyingly it is Fldigi for Windows which I use rather a lot. But apart from WSJT there is WSPR and the AGWPE packet engine that all use simple PTT control so I really need to leave that K3 option enabled.

While typing this I had a stroke of inspiration. If you type the command:

mode com1 rts=off dtr=off

in a command window that should turn RTS and DTR off. So if you could put that command into whatever the Windows XP equivalent of autoexec.bat is (assuming there is one) that should solve the problem.

[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Hi Julian,

Fascinating! (as Mr Spock would say).

I first enabled PTT=RTS on the K3. The rig keyed up as usual.

I then asserted the command line you suggested in a command window, and the RTS
line dropped but then immediately reasserted itself -- I would say the dropped
time was maybe 200 ms.

As an aside, any application that actually had control of the serial port would
block the user's attempt to control it through the command line. I verified this
by running my logging program (which talks with the K3) and then trying the
command. Windows responded that the serial port was not available. I closed the
logging program and tried again, and it worked as described above.

I'm beginning to think this is some kind of weird-ass Dell snafu... Great! :-(

Thanks,

Bill W5WVO


Julian, G4ILO wrote:

> Bill W5WVO wrote:
>>
>> Julian et al.,
>>
>> I have always used VOX for WSJT keying, so I tried setting it up for
>> RTS control
>> as you suggest above. But when I try to configure the K3 for ether
>> PTT=RTS or
>> PTT=DTR with NO RS232-controlling application (like WSJT) running,
>> the rig keys
>> up (and switches into TEST mode automatically as per the manual). If
>> I then
>> disconnect the serial cable at the laptop serial connector, the keyed
>> condition
>> disappears.
>>
>> My conclusion is that the laptop's serial port is asserting RTS and
>> DTR full-time for some reason. It's a 2-year-old Dell Latitude D820,
>> Core2 processor, 2 GHz, 2 GB RAM, running XP Home. It has one true
>> RS232 port (COM1),
>> the one I'm using. Flow control is set to NONE, so it should not be
>> asserting
>> these lines by default. Has anyone ever encountered this?
>>
>>
>
> For many years I have used RTS for PTT and CW keying with various
> software and radios and I have never come across this. Normally if
> the rig is switched on when the computer starts up the RTS (PTT) is
> briefly toggled three times during the startup procedures but it is
> always left on the off position. It seems an unlikely thing for Dell
> to deliberately do, so I wonder if you have some program or driver
> that tries to scan the serial ports at start-up and leaves RTS / DTR
> in the wrong state afterwards.
>
> There is one program I find that leaves RTS on when it closes and very
> annoyingly it is Fldigi for Windows which I use rather a lot. But
> apart from WSJT there is WSPR and the AGWPE packet engine that all
> use simple PTT control so I really need to leave that K3 option
> enabled.
>
> While typing this I had a stroke of inspiration. If you type the
> command:
>
> mode com1 rts=off dtr=off
>
> in a command window that should turn RTS and DTR off. So if you could
> put that command into whatever the Windows XP equivalent of
> autoexec.bat is (assuming there is one) that should solve the problem.
>
> -----
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
> * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
> * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html 

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Bill,

Just out of curiosity, I tried it here too.  Your momentary action may
be 'normal'
I tried it in CW mode and set the K3 menu to key on DTR.
When I issued the command mode com1 dtr=on, the K3 keyed for a very
brief time and then went back to receive - it did not stay key-down as I
expected.

It may be that your Dell has the on and off states of the control lines
backwards for the default (inactive) state.  I would suggest trying
another computer to verify.

73,
Don W3FPR

Bill W5WVO wrote:

> Hi Julian,
>
> Fascinating! (as Mr Spock would say).
>
> I first enabled PTT=RTS on the K3. The rig keyed up as usual.
>
> I then asserted the command line you suggested in a command window, and the RTS
> line dropped but then immediately reasserted itself -- I would say the dropped
> time was maybe 200 ms.
>
> As an aside, any application that actually had control of the serial port would
> block the user's attempt to control it through the command line. I verified this
> by running my logging program (which talks with the K3) and then trying the
> command. Windows responded that the serial port was not available. I closed the
> logging program and tried again, and it worked as described above.
>
> I'm beginning to think this is some kind of weird-ass Dell snafu... Great! :-(
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill W5WVO
>
>
> Julian, G4ILO wrote:
>  
>> Bill W5WVO wrote:
>>    
>>> Julian et al.,
>>>
>>> I have always used VOX for WSJT keying, so I tried setting it up for
>>> RTS control
>>> as you suggest above. But when I try to configure the K3 for ether
>>> PTT=RTS or
>>> PTT=DTR with NO RS232-controlling application (like WSJT) running,
>>> the rig keys
>>> up (and switches into TEST mode automatically as per the manual). If
>>> I then
>>> disconnect the serial cable at the laptop serial connector, the keyed
>>> condition
>>> disappears.
>>>
>>> My conclusion is that the laptop's serial port is asserting RTS and
>>> DTR full-time for some reason. It's a 2-year-old Dell Latitude D820,
>>> Core2 processor, 2 GHz, 2 GB RAM, running XP Home. It has one true
>>> RS232 port (COM1),
>>> the one I'm using. Flow control is set to NONE, so it should not be
>>> asserting
>>> these lines by default. Has anyone ever encountered this?
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>> For many years I have used RTS for PTT and CW keying with various
>> software and radios and I have never come across this. Normally if
>> the rig is switched on when the computer starts up the RTS (PTT) is
>> briefly toggled three times during the startup procedures but it is
>> always left on the off position. It seems an unlikely thing for Dell
>> to deliberately do, so I wonder if you have some program or driver
>> that tries to scan the serial ports at start-up and leaves RTS / DTR
>> in the wrong state afterwards.
>>
>> There is one program I find that leaves RTS on when it closes and very
>> annoyingly it is Fldigi for Windows which I use rather a lot. But
>> apart from WSJT there is WSPR and the AGWPE packet engine that all
>> use simple PTT control so I really need to leave that K3 option
>> enabled.
>>
>> While typing this I had a stroke of inspiration. If you type the
>> command:
>>
>> mode com1 rts=off dtr=off
>>
>> in a command window that should turn RTS and DTR off. So if you could
>> put that command into whatever the Windows XP equivalent of
>> autoexec.bat is (assuming there is one) that should solve the problem.
>>
>> -----
>> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
>> * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
>> * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
>> * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html 
>>    
>

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[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Hi Don,

i had just come to the same suspicion when I read your email. And we are right.
My homebrew desktop system (Tyan Tiger dual AMD board) works fine. This is a
Dell problem.

I will look around to see if there is an updated serial port driver that fixes
this. I will be pleasantly surprised if there is. In all likelihood, I will
simply have to eschew using these control lines on this machine.

Bill W5WVO


Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Bill,
>
> Just out of curiosity, I tried it here too.  Your momentary action may
> be 'normal'
> I tried it in CW mode and set the K3 menu to key on DTR.
> When I issued the command mode com1 dtr=on, the K3 keyed for a very
> brief time and then went back to receive - it did not stay key-down
> as I expected.
>
> It may be that your Dell has the on and off states of the control
> lines backwards for the default (inactive) state.  I would suggest
> trying another computer to verify.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> Bill W5WVO wrote:
>> Hi Julian,
>>
>> Fascinating! (as Mr Spock would say).
>>
>> I first enabled PTT=RTS on the K3. The rig keyed up as usual.
>>
>> I then asserted the command line you suggested in a command window,
>> and the RTS line dropped but then immediately reasserted itself -- I
>> would say the dropped time was maybe 200 ms.
>>
>> As an aside, any application that actually had control of the serial
>> port would block the user's attempt to control it through the
>> command line. I verified this by running my logging program (which
>> talks with the K3) and then trying the command. Windows responded
>> that the serial port was not available. I closed the logging program
>> and tried again, and it worked as described above. I'm beginning to think
>> this is some kind of weird-ass Dell snafu...
>> Great! :-( Thanks,
>>
>> Bill W5WVO
>>
>>
>> Julian, G4ILO wrote:
>>
>>> Bill W5WVO wrote:
>>>
>>>> Julian et al.,
>>>>
>>>> I have always used VOX for WSJT keying, so I tried setting it up
>>>> for RTS control
>>>> as you suggest above. But when I try to configure the K3 for ether
>>>> PTT=RTS or
>>>> PTT=DTR with NO RS232-controlling application (like WSJT) running,
>>>> the rig keys
>>>> up (and switches into TEST mode automatically as per the manual).
>>>> If I then
>>>> disconnect the serial cable at the laptop serial connector, the
>>>> keyed condition
>>>> disappears.
>>>>
>>>> My conclusion is that the laptop's serial port is asserting RTS and
>>>> DTR full-time for some reason. It's a 2-year-old Dell Latitude
>>>> D820, Core2 processor, 2 GHz, 2 GB RAM, running XP Home. It has
>>>> one true RS232 port (COM1),
>>>> the one I'm using. Flow control is set to NONE, so it should not be
>>>> asserting
>>>> these lines by default. Has anyone ever encountered this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> For many years I have used RTS for PTT and CW keying with various
>>> software and radios and I have never come across this. Normally if
>>> the rig is switched on when the computer starts up the RTS (PTT) is
>>> briefly toggled three times during the startup procedures but it is
>>> always left on the off position. It seems an unlikely thing for Dell
>>> to deliberately do, so I wonder if you have some program or driver
>>> that tries to scan the serial ports at start-up and leaves RTS / DTR
>>> in the wrong state afterwards.
>>>
>>> There is one program I find that leaves RTS on when it closes and
>>> very annoyingly it is Fldigi for Windows which I use rather a lot.
>>> But apart from WSJT there is WSPR and the AGWPE packet engine that
>>> all use simple PTT control so I really need to leave that K3 option
>>> enabled.
>>>
>>> While typing this I had a stroke of inspiration. If you type the
>>> command:
>>>
>>> mode com1 rts=off dtr=off
>>>
>>> in a command window that should turn RTS and DTR off. So if you
>>> could put that command into whatever the Windows XP equivalent of
>>> autoexec.bat is (assuming there is one) that should solve the
>>> problem. -----
>>> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
>>> * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
>>> * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
>>> * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html 

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[Julian, G4ILO]

Bill W5WVO wrote

Hi Don,

i had just come to the same suspicion when I read your email. And we are right.
My homebrew desktop system (Tyan Tiger dual AMD board) works fine. This is a
Dell problem.

I will look around to see if there is an updated serial port driver that fixes
this. I will be pleasantly surprised if there is. In all likelihood, I will
simply have to eschew using these control lines on this machine.

Have you tried looking in Device Manager at the properties for the serial port? On mine, on the tab where you can set the baud rate etc. there is a button marked Advanced Settings. Unfortunately when I clicked it a message came up something like "you need write access to the registry to change these settings" so I couldn't see what these settings were. You might be luckier.

[allenrw1955]

You need to login in as "administrator" then you will have full access
or somehow your anti-virus/security software has locked you out. That
ought to be fun to find.

Bob
KB1FRW
73
>
> Have you tried looking in Device Manager at the properties for the serial
> port? On mine, on the tab where you can set the baud rate etc. there is a
> button marked Advanced Settings.

> Unfortunately when I clicked it a message
> came up something like "you need write access to the registry to change
> these settings" so I couldn't see what these settings were. You might be
> luckier.
>
>
>  
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[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Julian, G4ILO wrote:

> Have you tried looking in Device Manager at the properties for the
> serial port? On mine, on the tab where you can set the baud rate etc.
> there is a button marked Advanced Settings...

Yes. The advanced settings have nothing to do with the RS-232 control signals,
unfortunately. And there is no replacement serial driver. Googling various
combinations of key words turns up nothing related to this bug. Apparently this
Dell RS-232 design error is so arcane relative to what virtually all laptop
users use their computers for, that nobody has ever complained about it. :-)

My last step is to go into the BIOS and see if there are any controls in there
that live below the level of the OS.

Oh well.

Bill W5WVO

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[Matt Zilmer]

Bill, even if you make BIOS changes to a port it won't affect the
port's operation under Windoze, since it's all controlled by a kernel
mode driver.

matt W6NIA

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:18:17 -0600, you wrote:

>Julian, G4ILO wrote:
>
>> Have you tried looking in Device Manager at the properties for the
>> serial port? On mine, on the tab where you can set the baud rate etc.
>> there is a button marked Advanced Settings...
>
>Yes. The advanced settings have nothing to do with the RS-232 control signals,
>unfortunately. And there is no replacement serial driver. Googling various
>combinations of key words turns up nothing related to this bug. Apparently this
>Dell RS-232 design error is so arcane relative to what virtually all laptop
>users use their computers for, that nobody has ever complained about it. :-)
>
>My last step is to go into the BIOS and see if there are any controls in there
>that live below the level of the OS.
>
>Oh well.
>
>Bill W5WVO
>
>______________________________________________________________
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[Bill VanAlstyne W5WVO]

Thanks for that info, Matt. Did not know that.

No controls in the BIOS anyway. I'll just have to live with it I guess.
Fortunately, I can use VOX for TX control and don't really need to use the
RS-232 control signals.

Bill W5WVO


Matt Zilmer wrote:

> Bill, even if you make BIOS changes to a port it won't affect the
> port's operation under Windoze, since it's all controlled by a kernel
> mode driver.
>
> matt W6NIA
>
> On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:18:17 -0600, you wrote:
>
>> Julian, G4ILO wrote:
>>
>>> Have you tried looking in Device Manager at the properties for the
>>> serial port? On mine, on the tab where you can set the baud rate
>>> etc. there is a button marked Advanced Settings...
>>
>> Yes. The advanced settings have nothing to do with the RS-232
>> control signals, unfortunately. And there is no replacement serial
>> driver. Googling various combinations of key words turns up nothing
>> related to this bug. Apparently this Dell RS-232 design error is so
>> arcane relative to what virtually all laptop users use their
>> computers for, that nobody has ever complained about it. :-)
>>
>> My last step is to go into the BIOS and see if there are any
>> controls in there that live below the level of the OS.
>>
>> Oh well.
>>
>> Bill W5WVO
>>
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[Jim Brown-10]

On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:41:09 -0600, Bill W5WVO wrote:

>I have always used VOX for WSJT keying

I have always used VOX for both SSB and data modes, even when doing
serious contesting. Works GREAT, simplifies control circuitry. Not a
cough in a carload. The K3 has a particularly good VOX system.

73,

Jim K9YC






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