Digital Mode Interface for the KX3 for WSJT modes

[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

 > I think I heard that a future FW will have fixed levels for Data
 > modes.

That doesn't resolve the need to share the headphone jack!  It simply
means it is easier to deal with external speakers/volume control and
headphone jack.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV



On 7/13/2012 2:48 PM, Bill Conkling wrote:

> I think I heard that a future FW will have fixed levels for Data modes.
>
> I hope I'm right!
>
> ...bill nr4c
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid
>
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Fri, Jul 13, 2012 16:30:40 GMT+00:00
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Digital Mode Interface for the KX3 for WSJT modes
>
>
>> Given that the KX3 supplied cables only have RXD and TXD signals,
>> using the serial port to generate PTT requires that either you use 2
>> serial ports (one may be the KX3 USB cable and the other can be a
>> real port or USB to Serial adapter), or provide a "Y" adapter to go
>> to your interface.
>
> Or simply provide a 3.5mm stereo jack on the interface for connection
> to the KX3 CAT jack.  Properly wired, TxD/RxD go to the KX3 while
> DTR and RTS get split off (in the box) to a pair (or more) of NPN
> transistors for CW and PTT.
>
> The difficulty in dealing with a computer interface for the KX3 is
> the last of a fixed level audio output and the need to share audio
> with the operator headphones/speaker.  Levels for computer decoding
> and operator comfort are not always the same <G> which means a
> buffer/splitter amplifier, external speakers with separate volume
> control and headphone jack or some other "extra box".
>
> 73,
>
>     ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
> On 7/13/2012 10:12 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Bill,
>>
>> You may want to re-think using the serial port on your interface.
>>
>> Most data mode applications like to use the same COM port for rig
>> control (OK, maybe just frequency display) as they use to activate DTR
>> or RTS for PTT.
>>
>> Given that the KX3 supplied cables only have RXD and TXD signals, using
>> the serial port to generate PTT requires that either you use 2 serial
>> ports (one may be the KX3 USB cable and the other can be a real port or
>> USB to Serial adapter), or provide a "Y" adapter to go to your
>> interface.  Use of the "Y" adapter precludes the use of the KX3 USB
>> cable.
>>
>> There is nothing wrong with generating PTT from the audio stream, or
>> just using VOX in the KX3.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> On 7/13/2012 9:51 AM, Bill Conkling wrote:
>>> I am working on an interface in a box w/pcb.  Once you use a box, you
>>> can
> do
>>> anything.  I plan to have full serial port and two audio cables from
>>> computer.  Transformers in the audio chain and a 10K/1k attenuator in
>>> mic
>>> input to KX3.  I will split the serial port to provide proper
>>> connections
>>> for CAT, PTT, and CW as n1mm handles the K3.
>>>
>>> Whole thing in a 2.5X2.5X1 box.
>>>
>>> Big plans....
>>>
>>> ...bill nr4c
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[W7GJ, Lance]

Hi Gary,

If it is still available, I would be interested.  PSE let me know, and I will send
you cash tmrw by mail.....  VY 73, Lance




On 7/13/2012 3:12 AM, Gary K9GS [via Elecraft] wrote:

> Or just buy one of these:
>
> http://www.unifiedmicro.com/sci6.htm
>
> Hard to beat for $25.00.
>
> BTW....I have a brand new one for sale, already assembled, never used.
> Will sell for $20.00 including shipping to the lower 48 states.  Note
> this is NOT set up for the KX3...strictly stock using the supplied
> connectors/cables.
>
>
>
>
> On 7/12/2012 7:50 PM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
>
> > Don,
> >
> > After making several sound-card interfaces (never have used a
> > commercially made one),  I deduced the "surest way" to avoid audio
> > problems was by total isolation of computer ground and radio
> > ground.  East to accomplish using isolation transformers for audio
> > and opto-isolators for dc controls.
> >
> > I guess there are applications for a "VOX-like" PTT control, but I
> > use RTL or DTR lines for this with the sw I run.  Opto-isolator like
> > the 4N36 work well in this path.
> >
> > I am going to go ahead making up an I/F with tiny pcb transformers,
> > but probably not try installing all inside a sub-D
> > connector  (commonly called DB-9 or DB-25).  I will use a tiny
> > plastic box and small pc board with mini-phone connectors for audio
> > and DB-9 for RS-232 interface.  I have in mind that it will attach on
> > the back of the KX3 with a velcro-patch (so one can remove it at will).
> >
> > I am just stacked up at present so this will not be worked on
> > right-away (assuming Lance has one for his eme dxpedition).
> >
> > I am writing a power-point presentation to demo the KX3 this
> > weekend.  I'll add it to my website afterward.
> >
> > 73, Ed - KL7UW
> >
> > At 02:49 PM 7/12/2012, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> >> Thanks, yes that is the one that produces the PTT from the audio stream.
> >> I note that Skip no longer has kits and boards, but he has supplied
> >> a complete parts list and the circuit is simple enough to wire on
> >> perfboard.  The photos provide a nice layout guide.
> >>
> >> Contrary to K9YC's statements, I believe the transformers are
> >> necessary for use with a laptop.
> >> Jim's "bond everything together" is a great solution (and it works)
> >> for the home station using a desktop computer, but bonding the
> >> computer becomes more difficult when using laptops with all plastic
> >> cases.  I cannot find a good place to connect to the computer ground
> >> of my IBM Thinkpad.unless it just happens to be the jackscrews on
> >> the VGA connector - but those are there to prevent connector
> >> pullout, and may or may not be grounded.  (I use a desktop at the
> >> home station).
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Don W3FPR
> >
> > 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
> > ======================================
> > BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
> > EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
> > DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
> </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7559045&i=0>
> > "Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm
> > ======================================
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7559045&i=1>
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>
> --
>
>
> 73,
>
> Gary K9GS
>
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
> CW Ops #1032 http://www.cwops.org
>
> ************************************************
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] </user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7559045&i=2>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Digital-Mode-Interface-for-the-KX3-for-WSJT-modes-tp7559019p7559045.html 
>
> To start a new topic under Elecraft, email [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from Elecraft, click here
> <
> NAML
> <http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml>
>

--
Lance Collister, W7GJ
(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT   59834-0073
USA
TEL: [phone]
QTH: DN27ub
URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
Windows Messenger: [hidden email]
Skype: lanceW7GJ
2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME
email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web
page (above)!

[Bob Cunnings NW8L]

Yes, I *know* that the KXSER serial cable carries only wires for TXD and RXD.

That's why I said that the KXSER cable would run between the KX3 and
the interface box.

As the original message stated, a *full* serial port would run from
the computer to the interface box, where PTT and CW would be broken
out for connection to the KX3 independently of the serial line to the
KX3 (which could be a KXSER).

73,

Bob NW8L



What is missing is that the KXSER serial cable carries only wires for
TXD and RXD.
Furthermore, the backshell is molded, so you cannot open it and add the
wires.

To use PTT from RTS or DTE, you would have to use a regular serial cable
to your interface box, and then provide an outlet from that box to plug
the KXSER cable into, and route the TXD and RXD signals on to the KX3.

If one chooses to use the KXUSB cable, you would need 2 ports to use PTT
from RTS or DTR.- one having the RTS or DTR signals and the other being
a port associated with the USB to serial chip.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/13/2012 11:52 AM, Bob Cunnings wrote:

> I don't understand this response. Why would he need to use 2 serial
> ports or Y adapters? He states that a full serial port will run from
> computer to interface box, where the serial signals will be broken out
> as required for PTT and CW. Presumably the KXSER rs-232 cable could
> run between interface box and the KX3 to convey RXD and TXD. What am I
> missing?
>
> Bob NW8L
>
> Bill,
>
> You may want to re-think using the serial port on your interface.
>
> Most data mode applications like to use the same COM port for rig
> control (OK, maybe just frequency display) as they use to activate DTR
> or RTS for PTT.
>
> Given that the KX3 supplied cables only have RXD and TXD signals, using
> the serial port to generate PTT requires that either you use 2 serial
> ports (one may be the KX3 USB cable and the other can be a real port or
> USB to Serial adapter), or provide a "Y" adapter to go to your
> interface.  Use of the "Y" adapter precludes the use of the KX3 USB cable.
>
> There is nothing wrong with generating PTT from the audio stream, or
> just using VOX in the KX3.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> On 7/13/2012 9:51 AM, Bill Conkling wrote:
>> I am working on an interface in a box w/pcb.  Once you use a box, you can do
>> anything.  I plan to have full serial port and two audio cables from
>> computer.  Transformers in the audio chain and a 10K/1k attenuator in mic
>> input to KX3.  I will split the serial port to provide proper connections
>> for CAT, PTT, and CW as n1mm handles the K3.
>>
>> Whole thing in a 2.5X2.5X1 box.
>>
>> Big plans....
>>
>> ...bill nr4c

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Don Wilhelm-4]

Sorry Bob,

I did not mean to ignore your initial offerings, but there were others
chiming in with information that simply would not work, and assumptions
that the KXUSB cable could provide PTT via RTS or DTR.
The folks at Elecraft support have also been asked questions about RTS
or DTR PTT with the K3USB cable, and it is just not possible.

I was trying to provide the information requested - not by you, but by
others who initiated emails based on your i\original question.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/13/2012 8:24 PM, Bob Cunnings wrote:

> Yes, I *know* that the KXSER serial cable carries only wires for TXD and RXD.
>
> That's why I said that the KXSER cable would run between the KX3 and
> the interface box.
>
> As the original message stated, a *full* serial port would run from
> the computer to the interface box, where PTT and CW would be broken
> out for connection to the KX3 independently of the serial line to the
> KX3 (which could be a KXSER).
>
> 73,
>
> Bob NW8L
>
>
>
> What is missing is that the KXSER serial cable carries only wires for
> TXD and RXD.
> Furthermore, the backshell is molded, so you cannot open it and add the
> wires.
>
> To use PTT from RTS or DTE, you would have to use a regular serial cable
> to your interface box, and then provide an outlet from that box to plug
> the KXSER cable into, and route the TXD and RXD signals on to the KX3.
>
> If one chooses to use the KXUSB cable, you would need 2 ports to use PTT
> from RTS or DTR.- one having the RTS or DTR signals and the other being
> a port associated with the USB to serial chip.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/13/2012 11:52 AM, Bob Cunnings wrote:
>> I don't understand this response. Why would he need to use 2 serial
>> ports or Y adapters? He states that a full serial port will run from
>> computer to interface box, where the serial signals will be broken out
>> as required for PTT and CW. Presumably the KXSER rs-232 cable could
>> run between interface box and the KX3 to convey RXD and TXD. What am I
>> missing?
>>
>> Bob NW8L
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> You may want to re-think using the serial port on your interface.
>>
>> Most data mode applications like to use the same COM port for rig
>> control (OK, maybe just frequency display) as they use to activate DTR
>> or RTS for PTT.
>>
>> Given that the KX3 supplied cables only have RXD and TXD signals, using
>> the serial port to generate PTT requires that either you use 2 serial
>> ports (one may be the KX3 USB cable and the other can be a real port or
>> USB to Serial adapter), or provide a "Y" adapter to go to your
>> interface.  Use of the "Y" adapter precludes the use of the KX3 USB cable.
>>
>> There is nothing wrong with generating PTT from the audio stream, or
>> just using VOX in the KX3.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> On 7/13/2012 9:51 AM, Bill Conkling wrote:
>>> I am working on an interface in a box w/pcb.  Once you use a box, you can do
>>> anything.  I plan to have full serial port and two audio cables from
>>> computer.  Transformers in the audio chain and a 10K/1k attenuator in mic
>>> input to KX3.  I will split the serial port to provide proper connections
>>> for CAT, PTT, and CW as n1mm handles the K3.
>>>
>>> Whole thing in a 2.5X2.5X1 box.
>>>
>>> Big plans....
>>>
>>> ...bill nr4c
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Edward R Cole]

Joe, W4TV, wrote:

The difficulty in dealing with a computer interface for the KX3 is
the last of a fixed level audio output and the need to share audio
with the operator headphones/speaker.  Levels for computer decoding
and operator comfort are not always the same <G> which means a
buffer/splitter amplifier, external speakers with separate volume
control and headphone jack or some other "extra box".
-----------
I rarely listen to the audio of digital signals since my brain cannot
decode them, anyway.  With a 3.5mm phone plug inserted the internal
speaker is disconnected so I suppose you are using either headphones
or ext. speaker.  No need to hear the signal so volume on KX3 is
adequate to set proper level for digital sw.

But one could provide for separated audio to speaker/headphone and
computer with audio amp and pot for level setting.  Final audio level
is set with soundcard dialog box, anyway.  In my case I use an ext
soundcard that has pots for line-in level.

------------
Regarding serial connections to the computer this is easily handled
by either a full RS-232 cable if you have RS-232 on your computer or
by using a USB/RS-232 conversion cable (like what comes with the
K3).  One then connects DB-9 pins 2,3 for RXD and TXD to a cable to
plug into the ACC-1 jack, and take off pins 4, 7, 5 to split out RTS,
DTR and ground to supply PTT and CW keying, per one's needs.

To provide fullest versatility I would provide both a DB9 serial port
for full serial connection and the 3.5mm mini-phone jack for the
KXUSB cable (RXD, TXD) for those not requiring RTS/DTR controls. One
just uses whichever cable is suitable to their sw needs.  If you use
the KX3 VOX for audio-sensed PTT there is no need for any ancillary
ckt.  If you need hard switched PTT then use RTS/DTR per your sw.

Audio interface should use isolation transformers, and the mic audio
requires a pot for setting proper modulation level (using the ALC
display).  The four contact mic mini-plug is probably the hardest
item to come up with.

Such would satisfy all users, I believe (I do not use HRD or other
control sw so perhaps they require addition controls?).




73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ   500 KHz - 10-GHz   www.kl7uw.com
EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-?
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
"Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm
======================================
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Jim Brown-10]

On 7/15/2012 12:15 AM, Edward R. Cole wrote:
> I rarely listen to the audio of digital signals since my brain cannot
> decode them, anyway.  With a 3.5mm phone plug inserted the internal
> speaker is disconnected so I suppose you are using either headphones
> or ext. speaker.  No need to hear the signal so volume on KX3 is
> adequate to set proper level for digital sw.

I operate RTTY, JT65, FSK441, and ISCAT fairly often, and I've just
started with PSK2K. I find it VERY useful, even IMPORTANT to listen to
what the decoder is seeing. I get close to "right" tuning on RTTY by
ear, then tweak it with the display.  When using FSK441 to work meteor
scatter I'll hear a ping and know to be looking for it. Likewise with
JT65 and ISCAT I'll be able to hear most of the signals that can be
decoded, as well as noise and QRM.  And when using some of these modes
on a band with little activity (like 6M, or 160M during the summer) I'll
be CQing beacon-style while doing something around the shack. Hearing a
signal pulls me back to the operating desk.

There are at least a half dozen other digital modes in use, and with
some you almost need to hear them to recognize which decoding program to
use. :)

>Audio interface should use isolation transformers, and the mic audio
>requires a pot for setting proper modulation level

Both statements are absolutely untrue. I've shown how proper
chassis-to-chassis bonding prevents hum and buzz from power-related
leakage currents, and it is trivially easy to set audio level using a
combination of the output controls on the computer sound card and the
mic gain on the radio.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html