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Digitized IF over IP?

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Jim Miller

Digitized IF over IP?

Has anyone digitized the K3s IF and streamed it over an IP connection?

73

Jim ab3cv
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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-2

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

Latency is going to be a huge problem.

73 -- Lynn

On 11/20/2017 11:05 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

> Has anyone digitized the K3s IF and streamed it over an IP connection?
>
> 73
>
> Jim ab3cv
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tomb18

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

In reply to this post by Jim Miller

Hi,
The questions is why? What are you trying to achieve?
Tom
va2fsq.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 2:14 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Digitized IF over IP?

Latency is going to be a huge problem.

73 -- Lynn

On 11/20/2017 11:05 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

tomb18

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

Hi,
That would be incredibly inefficient if you really want the whole IF. The IF
output of the K3 is 8.215 MHz so you would have to sample at twice this.
On the other hand, the original questions was "Has anyone digitized the K3S
IF and streamed it over an IP connection?" and the answer is yes, many
people people have.
However, there is always something sampling the IF at the K3 and then
providing some sort of processing before hand.
For example you could hook up an SDRPlay and sample at 2MHz and you will
then have a maximum bandwidth of 2MHz. That will be perfectly fine.
However, again, it is not that efficient. What do you want your panadapter
to display? Your display has a finite number of pixels. Today, the highest
resolution would be 4K where you have 3840 data points. Why send all 4
million data points when you need to display only 3840? Of course I'm
simplifying this a lot but it's the general idea.
There are lots of solutions out there. Just look up software defined radios
and dongles and find some drivers that will stream the data.
73 Tom
va2fsq.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Miller
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 2:32 PM
To: Tom
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Digitized IF over IP?

Remote panadapter

Jim ab3cv

On Nov 20, 2017, at 2:23 PM, Tom <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,
The questions is why? What are you trying to achieve? Tom
va2fsq.com

-----Original Message----- From: Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT Sent: Monday,
November 20, 2017 2:14 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re:
[Elecraft] Digitized IF over IP?
Latency is going to be a huge problem.

73 -- Lynn

> On 11/20/2017 11:05 AM, Jim Miller wrote:
> Has anyone digitized the K3s IF and streamed it over an IP connection?
> 73
> Jim ab3cv
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Steve Sergeant

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

Somebody must have already written the code to collect several hundred
FFT bins of 100 or 125 millisecond duration over IP as single-line
updates to a display app on the far end. With typical compression (LZV,
RLL, etc.) that would yield around a 300kbps bitstream or so for 512
frequency bins and 1/8-sec updates; not really a lot of data for most
modern Internet connections.

This is all really well-understood technology which is well supported by
a number of development environments.

I couldn't tell you what commercial products do this, if they do exist.

On 11/20/17 11:58 AM, Tom wrote:

> Hi,
> That would be incredibly inefficient if you really want the whole IF.
> The IF output of the K3 is 8.215 MHz so you would have to sample at
> twice this.
> On the other hand, the original questions was "Has anyone digitized the
> K3S IF and streamed it over an IP connection?" and the answer is yes,
> many people people have.
> However, there is always something sampling the IF at the K3 and then
> providing some sort of processing before hand.
> For example you could hook up an SDRPlay and sample at 2MHz and you will
> then have a maximum bandwidth of 2MHz. That will be perfectly fine.
> However, again, it is not that efficient. What do you want your
> panadapter to display? Your display has a finite number of pixels.
> Today, the highest resolution would be 4K where you have 3840 data
> points. Why send all 4 million data points when you need to display
> only 3840? Of course I'm simplifying this a lot but it's the general idea.
> There are lots of solutions out there. Just look up software defined
> radios and dongles and find some drivers that will stream the data.
> 73 Tom
> va2fsq.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Jim Miller
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 2:32 PM
> To: Tom
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Digitized IF over IP?
>
> Remote panadapter
>
> Jim ab3cv
>
> On Nov 20, 2017, at 2:23 PM, Tom <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> The questions is why? What are you trying to achieve? Tom
> va2fsq.com
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT Sent: Monday,
> November 20, 2017 2:14 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re:
> [Elecraft] Digitized IF over IP?
> Latency is going to be a huge problem.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
>> On 11/20/2017 11:05 AM, Jim Miller wrote:
>> Has anyone digitized the K3s IF and streamed it over an IP connection?
>> 73
>> Jim ab3cv
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Jim Miller

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

In reply to this post by tomb18

Although the IF frequency is 8.215Mhz the bandwidth at that frequency can't
be that much. Wouldn't down converting or sampling then down before down
converting yield a much more reasonable data stream?

As you suggest further processing before sending over IP to something that
can be reasonably displayed would make sense as well.

My desire is to not have a PC at the remote station. Something embedded is
fine.

73

jim ab3cv

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Tom <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
> That would be incredibly inefficient if you really want the whole IF. The
> IF output of the K3 is 8.215 MHz so you would have to sample at twice this.
> On the other hand, the original questions was "Has anyone digitized the
> K3S IF and streamed it over an IP connection?" and the answer is yes, many
> people people have.
> However, there is always something sampling the IF at the K3 and then
> providing some sort of processing before hand.
> For example you could hook up an SDRPlay and sample at 2MHz and you will
> then have a maximum bandwidth of 2MHz. That will be perfectly fine.
> However, again, it is not that efficient. What do you want your panadapter
> to display? Your display has a finite number of pixels. Today, the
> highest resolution would be 4K where you have 3840 data points. Why send
> all 4 million data points when you need to display only 3840? Of course
> I'm simplifying this a lot but it's the general idea.
> There are lots of solutions out there. Just look up software defined
> radios and dongles and find some drivers that will stream the data.
> 73 Tom
> va2fsq.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Jim Miller
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 2:32 PM
> To: Tom
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Digitized IF over IP?
>
> Remote panadapter
>
> Jim ab3cv
>
> On Nov 20, 2017, at 2:23 PM, Tom <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> The questions is why? What are you trying to achieve? Tom
> va2fsq.com
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT Sent: Monday,
> November 20, 2017 2:14 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re:
> [Elecraft] Digitized IF over IP?
> Latency is going to be a huge problem.
>
> 73 -- Lynn
>
> On 11/20/2017 11:05 AM, Jim Miller wrote:
>> Has anyone digitized the K3s IF and streamed it over an IP connection?
>> 73
>> Jim ab3cv
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
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tomb18

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

In reply to this post by tomb18

Yes, that is the idea. There are already some SDR’s that will do this, without the need for a PC. Here is an example
http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/SDR-IP.html

Of course if you want to do this yourself, it depends where you want to start...
73

From: Jim Miller
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 4:21 PM
To: Tom
Cc: Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Digitized IF over IP?

Although the IF frequency is 8.215Mhz the bandwidth at that frequency can't be that much. Wouldn't down converting or sampling then down before down converting yield a much more reasonable data stream?

As you suggest further processing before sending over IP to something that can be reasonably displayed would make sense as well.

My desire is to not have a PC at the remote station. Something embedded is fine.

73

jim ab3cv

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k6dgw

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

In reply to this post by Steve Sergeant

The P3 is the biggest thing I miss when operating remote to W7RN. I
bought my P3 as a "toy" but it's the only thing I look at now. The
station is about 60 km from me, I've thought about getting an easement
and running 60 km of RG-58 down to my P3, but I doubt I'd have any
signal at the house [:-)

Was thinking of mixing the 8.1 MHz IF down to baseband, sampling it and
feeding it down on the iNet, mixing it back to something the P3 will
tune to. I think there are devices on the market to do something like
that, just haven't pursued it yet.

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 11/20/2017 12:10 PM, Steve Sergeant wrote:

> Somebody must have already written the code to collect several hundred
> FFT bins of 100 or 125 millisecond duration over IP as single-line
> updates to a display app on the far end. With typical compression (LZV,
> RLL, etc.) that would yield around a 300kbps bitstream or so for 512
> frequency bins and 1/8-sec updates; not really a lot of data for most
> modern Internet connections.
>
> This is all really well-understood technology which is well supported by
> a number of development environments.
>
> I couldn't tell you what commercial products do this, if they do exist.
>

Jim AB3CV

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

Perhaps if Wayne and Eric (and Lyle) are listening perhaps there is a
market for a IP-P3. Most of the P3 as it stands is an empty case. Maybe
something that could be an addon?

Jim ab3cv

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:45 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The P3 is the biggest thing I miss when operating remote to W7RN. I
> bought my P3 as a "toy" but it's the only thing I look at now. The station
> is about 60 km from me, I've thought about getting an easement and running
> 60 km of RG-58 down to my P3, but I doubt I'd have any signal at the house
> [:-)
>
> Was thinking of mixing the 8.1 MHz IF down to baseband, sampling it and
> feeding it down on the iNet, mixing it back to something the P3 will tune
> to. I think there are devices on the market to do something like that,
> just haven't pursued it yet.
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 11/20/2017 12:10 PM, Steve Sergeant wrote:
>
>> Somebody must have already written the code to collect several hundred
>> FFT bins of 100 or 125 millisecond duration over IP as single-line
>> updates to a display app on the far end. With typical compression (LZV,
>> RLL, etc.) that would yield around a 300kbps bitstream or so for 512
>> frequency bins and 1/8-sec updates; not really a lot of data for most
>> modern Internet connections.
>>
>> This is all really well-understood technology which is well supported by
>> a number of development environments.
>>
>> I couldn't tell you what commercial products do this, if they do exist.
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>

Don Wilhelm

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

In reply to this post by k6dgw

Skip,

Have you considered a VNC connection to a computer local to the K3/P3?
Of course, that will not show you the P3 screen nor even the SVGA screen
(unless it is done using a camera), but if the P3 IF OUT is connected to
an LP-PAN box, the baseband I/Q outputs from LPpan run to a quality
soundcard can produce a panadapter display on the computer monitor.
NaP3 will also provide rig control, and Win4K3 will do that as well and
also allow linking with several other logging applications, CW Skimmer,
and many others.
I am not certain about latency concerns, and that may be a problem on
CW, but it may not be a problem on phone.

Tom VA2FSQ (the author of Win4K3) has some other possibilities such as
his support for video capture of the P3/SVGA screen, so that may give
you some additional possibilities for solutions. Take a look at
https://va2fsq.com/

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/20/2017 4:45 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

> The P3 is the biggest thing I miss when operating remote to W7RN. I
> bought my P3 as a "toy" but it's the only thing I look at now. The
> station is about 60 km from me, I've thought about getting an easement
> and running 60 km of RG-58 down to my P3, but I doubt I'd have any
> signal at the house [:-)
>
> Was thinking of mixing the 8.1 MHz IF down to baseband, sampling it and
> feeding it down on the iNet, mixing it back to something the P3 will
> tune to. I think there are devices on the market to do something like
> that, just haven't pursued it yet.
>

Jim AB3CV

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

Doing a screen grab is certainly possible a variety of ways. But it would
seem to me that doing the FFT of a realistic size and update rate and just
streaming the data to the control location would likely be more efficient.
Most of the SVGA display is blank at any point in time and a waste of
bandwidth. Doing an A/D converter and feeding an FPGA for the FFT must have
been done before by the HPSDR guys. https://openhpsdr.org/
The control point can then display the data, average it as desired, provide
a waterfall of it, etc.

Something with 1024 or 2048 points and 10bits of data would make a good
place to get a start on feasibility. The control of such a remote device
would probably need SPAN, CENTER (freq offset), SCALE (gain) and REF LVL.
Along with the data stream would need to come the band/freq info from the
K3s. The rest would be in the Control Point display, likely software.

I really don't need to outperform the P3 but it's probably possible to do
so. Just having the P3 as it is and being able to have the screen remotely
would be a great capability.

I recently worked at a station which didn't have K3/P3 at all locations and
it was like walking around in the dark!!

73

jim ab3cv

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Skip,
>
> Have you considered a VNC connection to a computer local to the K3/P3?
> Of course, that will not show you the P3 screen nor even the SVGA screen
> (unless it is done using a camera), but if the P3 IF OUT is connected to an
> LP-PAN box, the baseband I/Q outputs from LPpan run to a quality soundcard
> can produce a panadapter display on the computer monitor. NaP3 will also
> provide rig control, and Win4K3 will do that as well and also allow linking
> with several other logging applications, CW Skimmer, and many others.
> I am not certain about latency concerns, and that may be a problem on CW,
> but it may not be a problem on phone.
>
> Tom VA2FSQ (the author of Win4K3) has some other possibilities such as his
> support for video capture of the P3/SVGA screen, so that may give you some
> additional possibilities for solutions. Take a look at
> https://va2fsq.com/
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 11/20/2017 4:45 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>
>> The P3 is the biggest thing I miss when operating remote to W7RN. I
>> bought my P3 as a "toy" but it's the only thing I look at now. The station
>> is about 60 km from me, I've thought about getting an easement and running
>> 60 km of RG-58 down to my P3, but I doubt I'd have any signal at the house
>> [:-)
>>
>> Was thinking of mixing the 8.1 MHz IF down to baseband, sampling it and
>> feeding it down on the iNet, mixing it back to something the P3 will tune
>> to. I think there are devices on the market to do something like that,
>> just haven't pursued it yet.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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tomb18

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

In reply to this post by Jim Miller

Hi Here is a demo using remote rig, and a kx3. https://youtu.be/8--Vk2WWLok
In this case, the videos author is using a product from Eltima that streams a sound card USB port over TCP. This again requires a pc at the radio end to stream the output of the sound card to the remote computer. But as you can see it works well.
Also don't underestimate the capabilities of screen sharing programs. They do of course require a computer at the radio end but then there are loads of possibilities. There is also a pure teamviewer solution that can be used with many different clients.
https://youtu.be/kWa7zSBeD6Q&sns
There are lots of possibilities. The P3 however, doesn't have the ability. There is on the other hand, a port in the back that was intended for this purpose but never implemented. 73 Tom
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------From: Jim Miller <[hidden email]> Date: 2017-11-20 6:52 PM (GMT-05:00) To: [hidden email] Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Digitized IF over IP?
Doing a screen grab is certainly possible a variety of ways. But it would
seem to me that doing the FFT of a realistic size and update rate and just
streaming the data to the control location would likely be more efficient.
Most of the SVGA display is blank at any point in time and a waste of
bandwidth. Doing an A/D converter and feeding an FPGA for the FFT must have
been done before by the HPSDR guys. https://openhpsdr.org/
The control point can then display the data, average it as desired, provide
a waterfall of it, etc.

Something with 1024 or 2048 points and 10bits of data would make a good
place to get a start on feasibility. The control of such a remote device
would probably need SPAN, CENTER (freq offset), SCALE (gain) and REF LVL.
Along with the data stream would need to come the band/freq info from the
K3s. The rest would be in the Control Point display, likely software.

I really don't need to outperform the P3 but it's probably possible to do
so. Just having the P3 as it is and being able to have the screen remotely
would be a great capability.

I recently worked at a station which didn't have K3/P3 at all locations and
it was like walking around in the dark!!

73

jim ab3cv

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 6:26 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

Richard Ferch-2

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

In reply to this post by Jim Miller

Relaying FFT spectrum data to another computer is certainly doable.

For example, N1MM Logger+ can relay its spectrum display window to other
instances of N1MM+ over a LAN or the Internet. If you have a copy of N1MM+
running at the radio site and equipped to display a spectrum window, that
copy of N1MM+ can relay its spectrum window data to another copy of N1MM+
running somewhere else. Either copy of N1MM+ can be the one doing the
actual logging.

With a K3/K3S, at the radio site you would need an SDR such as the SDRPlay,
or an LP-PAN plus a good sound card, plus software: Win4K3Suite, or N2IC's
Waterfall Bandmap program, together with a copy of N1MM+. At the remote
control site, all you need is N1MM+. See the online documentation for N1MM+
(the Spectrum Display Window web page) for details.

73,
Rich VE3KI
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Thom

K1 Fix and Align

I built my K1 and I was so careful to make sure I did everything right.

I have the receiver aligned but for some reason I cannot get the
transmitter to align at all.

I do not have the time, with everything going on, to try and
troubleshoot this thing.

I would like to find someone I can send this radio to and get it up and
running like it should.

Please send me a private email if you can help.

thanks

73

Thom KI8W

[hidden email]

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k6dgw

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

In reply to this post by Jim AB3CV

Agreed Jim, Only the top line of the waterfall changes, all the rest is
history that could easily be replicated at the control site. In that
scheme, one would just send the output of the FFT and do all the display
at the control site. However, whatever is involved, I would also like
to be able to push the buttons and turn the knob. The max BW required
at the 1st IF to just bring it down and feed my P3 is 200 KHz, and I
never use more than 50 KHz spans, usually 20 KHz on CW. With RemoteRig,
my K3 looks, feels, and sounds like it is actually making the RF. Would
be nice to include the P3 in that.

Interesting ensemble of engineering tradeoffs, no?

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 11/20/2017 3:52 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

> Doing a screen grab is certainly possible a variety of ways. But it
> would seem to me that doing the FFT of a realistic size and update
> rate and just streaming the data to the control location would likely
> be more efficient. Most of the SVGA display is blank at any point in
> time and a waste of bandwidth. Doing an A/D converter and feeding an
> FPGA for the FFT must have been done before by the HPSDR guys.
> https://openhpsdr.org/
> The control point can then display the data, average it as desired,
> provide a waterfall of it, etc.
>

Don Wilhelm

Re: K1 Fix and Align

In reply to this post by Thom

Thom,

I am ignoring your request for a private email - but I believe I can
help, and there may be other K1 users out there who may want similar
information.

First I need to ask what specifically are you having trouble with in the
transmit alignment.

If it is that you cannot adjust the pre-mixer and RF bandpass filters on
the band board, all I can say is that you should re-do the receive
alignment with a strong signal source of a known frequency within the
tuning range of the K1. Although on-the-air signals may be sufficient,
they may not tell the entire story.

First make certain the BFO is adjusted properly to peak the FL3 passband
at your preferred sidetone pitch.
Then turn the switch on the bottom of the K1 board to the TEST position
and adjust the TX Offset trimmer so the audio frequency is the same as
your sidetone pitch (use SPOT to zero beat). Spectrogram is useful in
setting te audio pitch properly. You can download Spectrogram from my
website www.w3fpr.com. Scroll down on the opening page for the links.

After doing that, re-do the Premixer and RF Bandpass adjustments in
transmit mode with the OUT parameter set to 1.5 watts. Adjust for peak
output power on each band.

I can do the alignment/repair/calibration of your K1 if you do not want
to pursue it on your own.

You can send me a private email and I will send you my service form.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/20/2017 8:11 PM, Thom wrote:

> I built my K1 and I was so careful to make sure I did everything right.
>
> I have the receiver aligned but for some reason I cannot get the
> transmitter to align at all.
>
> I do not have the time, with everything going on, to try and
> troubleshoot this thing.
>
> I would like to find someone I can send this radio to and get it up and
> running like it should.
>

Jim Miller

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

In reply to this post by k6dgw

And if it’s all bundled up as a P3/0-Mini I have no problem with that.

73

Jim ab3cv

On Nov 20, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Fred Jensen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Agreed Jim, Only the top line of the waterfall changes, all the rest is history that could easily be replicated at the control site. In that scheme, one would just send the output of the FFT and do all the display at the control site. However, whatever is involved, I would also like to be able to push the buttons and turn the knob. The max BW required at the 1st IF to just bring it down and feed my P3 is 200 KHz, and I never use more than 50 KHz spans, usually 20 KHz on CW. With RemoteRig, my K3 looks, feels, and sounds like it is actually making the RF. Would be nice to include the P3 in that.

Interesting ensemble of engineering tradeoffs, no?

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

> On 11/20/2017 3:52 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
> Doing a screen grab is certainly possible a variety of ways. But it would seem to me that doing the FFT of a realistic size and update rate and just streaming the data to the control location would likely be more efficient. Most of the SVGA display is blank at any point in time and a waste of bandwidth. Doing an A/D converter and feeding an FPGA for the FFT must have been done before by the HPSDR guys. https://openhpsdr.org/
> The control point can then display the data, average it as desired, provide a waterfall of it, etc.
>

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Jim Shepherd

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

In reply to this post by Jim Miller

Google "streaming svga output over ip" There is a lot of equipment out
there to take the SVGA output from the P3 and send it out across the
internet. Could the P3 Utility be operated remotely with some extensions to
allow setting things like the Ref Lvl? This should give you a full screen
display on a computer at the remote site.

Jim Shepherd, W6US

ps-I missed mine during the Sweepstakes this last weekend...It was in for
repairs in Watsonville...
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Edward R Cole

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

In reply to this post by Jim Miller

I"m not sure what bw you are requiring for IP, but I assume you are
talking about the 1st IF of the K3 or K3s.

You do realize that its very wideband at that point. Roofing filters
follow the 1st IF to feed the 2nd IF and DSP ckts. I run two LP-Pan
from the IF of both my main and subRx on the K3. Input bw of the
LP-Pan is 400-KHz and can provide 196-KHz IQ baseband output. I also
have a SDR-IQ with max bw of 190-KHz. I only utilize that bw when
measuring sun noise on 1296; normal bandpass for monitoring is
100-KHz which covers eme sub-bands. For MAP65 I only monitor 60-KHz
(144.095-144.155 MHz); Map65 takes output of two LP-Pan into a
Delta44 soundcard which has 96 KHz bw. My emu0202 can do 196 KHz but
run from K3 audio out its limited to 4-KHz bw.

I would guess the 1st IF would receive bw of a complete band (28-30
MHz on 10m).

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

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k6dgw

Re: Digitized IF over IP?

Yes, 1st IF normally feeds a P3 at around 8 MHz thru a short length of
RG-58.

Yes, the BW at the 1st IF is quite wide, limited only by the front end
BPF. After down conversion to baseband [or something close, 15 KHz
comes to mind [:-)] it would need bandlimiting before the ADC. That's
not at all unheard of. 50 KHz BW would be fine with me, I'd settle for
20 KHz.

Yes, I know where the roofing filters are and they're not relevant here,
the P3 sees the signal chain before them in a local environment.

The P3, in a purely local environment, has access to the K3 via the CAT
port which tells it where VFO A and B are tuned, thus permitting Fixed
Tune mode where the P3 cursor follows the "Big Knob." That would be
really cool in the remote environment.

There are many non-P3 solutions here ... I have a P3 ... first plan
would be to get it to work remotely. I will try running the K3 CAT port
thru the P3 to the RRC-1258 and see if that still works remotely and
what the P3 does with all the Microbit chatter on the cable.

Lots of good info and ideas coming out of this. Thanks to all

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 11/21/2017 2:20 AM, Edward R Cole wrote:

> I"m not sure what bw you are requiring for IP, but I assume you are
> talking about the 1st IF of the K3 or K3s.
>
> You do realize that its very wideband at that point. Roofing filters
> follow the 1st IF to feed the 2nd IF and DSP ckts. I run two LP-Pan
> from the IF of both my main and subRx on the K3. Input bw of the
> LP-Pan is 400-KHz and can provide 196-KHz IQ baseband output. I also
> have a SDR-IQ with max bw of 190-KHz. I only utilize that bw when
> measuring sun noise on 1296; normal bandpass for monitoring is 100-KHz
> which covers eme sub-bands. For MAP65 I only monitor 60-KHz
> (144.095-144.155 MHz); Map65 takes output of two LP-Pan into a Delta44
> soundcard which has 96 KHz bw. My emu0202 can do 196 KHz but run from
> K3 audio out its limited to 4-KHz bw.
>
> I would guess the 1st IF would receive bw of a complete band (28-30
> MHz on 10m).
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW
> http://www.kl7uw.com
> Dubus-NA Business mail:
> [hidden email]