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Disgrunteled Japanese

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ab2tc

Re: Disgruntled Europeans

Hi,

It's been an interesting discussion. As a naturalized US citizen I am fully aware how privileged we are in this country buying equipment of any kind, imported or not. I just went through the motions of ordering the VX-8R from Universal Radio except the final step of actually placing the order. My final price shipped UPS ground (5 days typical) to my New York home is $369.90. There is a 9.95$ shipping charge but then there is currently a $20 coupon applied by Universal. No sales tax since Universal does no business in NY. Even in the few cases where sales tax applies, it's a "mere" 7-9%. I do feel bad for my fellow hams in most other countries who are not as fortunate.

AB2TC - Knut

Julian, G4ILO wrote

It's really a dream. There are so many hid of all sortsden costs that much of the saving gets eaten up by the time the product gets here. I just did a quick example of a Yaesu VX-8R, listed by Universal Radio at $379. Add on say $50 for international shipping. That comes to GBP 268 (£1 = $1.60) You'll be charged 17.5% VAT on arrival here plus a GBP 13 tax collection fee bringing the total to GBP 328. Nevada Radio is selling the EU version (VX-8E) for GBP 338. So ten quid gets you the EU version plus a locally supported warranty.
<snip>

Johnny Siu

Re： Japanese prices ('disgruntled' thread re-titled)

In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Hello Eric,

Thanks for the thorough clarification.

If you have no objection, can I translate your message in Japanese and pass it to the ham colleagues in Japan who are complaining about the excessive price differences?

I think this will let them understand more so that they can make their own judgement and customer's choice.

73 & HNY

Johnny Siu VR2XMC

----- 郵件原件 ----
寄件人﹕ "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
收件人﹕ The Smiths <[hidden email]>
副本(CC) Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>; Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
傳送日期﹕ 2010/1/5 (二) 7:47:27 AM
主題： Re: [Elecraft] Japanese prices ('disgruntled' thread re-titled)

Looks like there is a lot of confusion surrounding K3 pricing in Japan. :-)

We've worked with EDC in Japan for 10 years. They are a very small
company, owned by JA8CCL, that is honorable and that gives support above
and beyond what is normally required to their customers. That includes
fixing improperly customer built K1s, KX1s, K2s and K3s under their
'warranty' at no charge. They are a high value added distributor who
does not forget the customer once the sale is made.

I agree that the prices can look high when just comparing the raw EDC JA
price to our web price. What many do not realize is that EDC bears a lot
of import and transport expense that would normally be borne by the
customer if they buy a product direct.

The K3 prices listed by EDC also include the following ALL of the
following import and support costs that do not appear on our price list
here:

1. The local JA consumption tax. (VAT) In the US this is added to the
invoice at time of sale. In JA, EDC shows it already included on their
K3 price list.

2. Import duty entering JA.

(The above two items are computed based on the total cost of the product
on the shipper invoice, including all shipping and handling costs. )

- EDC can't fly 'under the radar' as many individuals try to do. Like
us, they are carefully watched by the import officials and have to be
squeaky clean - paying all taxes, duties etc.

3.. Import shipping to JA from CA. (not cheap!)

4. Cost of handling all the customs paperwork, fee payment etc.
Especially when importing larger value and size shipments, Japan can be
one of the more time consuming bureaucracies to deal with.

5. Cost of the variation in the Yen - Dollar exchange rate.
This is significant. The exchange rate has varied between 110 and 90 yen
to the dollar over the past 18 months, 22%, and even more so over the
past 2-1/2 years. I know of specific periods over the past ten years
where EDC has actually lost money importing our products due to shifts
in the exchange rate.

6. Cost of funds to carry inventory.. EDC orders many of our products
well ahead of time and stocks them at their cost, tying up funds that
could be used elsewhere.

7. Cost to pay for their offices, test equipment and employees.

EDC also carries all of the cost of advertising in the JA local market.
Ads in JA CQ are way more expensive than QST.

They also translate all of our manuals into Japanese. Not an easy
undertaking.

On top of these costs they also need to make a small profit. It isn't
much, based on what I've observed. (He makes most of his revenue from
designing custom medical equipment and custom hard disk drive
manufacturing test equipment.)

To be honest, JA8CCL does this out of his love for the hobby, and out of
a personal friendship with me going back 20 years. Once he sells a
product to a customer, he supports them for life. Period. He has a large
following of loyal customers, many who have emailed us directly to
compliment EDC on their support.

That said, we're also always working with them to try to get the JA EDC
price lower. Its a challenge, but we'll keep working on it. There is not
a lot of margin to play with in the ham radio market.

While others have pointed out that its difficult, if not impossible, to
buy most JA manufactured top end radios directly from Japan, please
let's not let this thread degenerate into a pro-con of one manufacturer
or government against another.

Rather than tie up the reflector with an extended conversation on this,
please feel free to email me directly with any comments and suggestions
you might have.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
----

>> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:09:32 -0800
>> To: [hidden email]
>> From: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>>
>> I would personally prefer to buy from a local distributor, for the exact reason you mention.
>> So I'm willing to pay a little extra for that convenience.
>> The question is how much will I (or more generally, one) be willing to pay for the additional convenience.
>>
>> With regards to ham radio equipment, bands could be different from one country to another (and certainly the case between US and JA), so there's another reason you might want to deal locally.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV

Yahoo!香港提供網上安全攻略，教你如何防範黑客! 請前往 http://hk.promo.yahoo.com/security/ 了解更多!

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ayoshida

Re: Japanese prices ('disgruntled' thread re-titled)

In reply to this post by Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Hi

I wll foward this message to my blog.

One of HAPPY users of KX1, K1, K2 and K3
73
aki ja1nlx

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:

> Looks like there is a lot of confusion surrounding K3 pricing in Japan. :-)
>
> We've worked with EDC in Japan for 10 years. They are a very small
> company, owned by JA8CCL, that is honorable and that gives support above
> and beyond what is normally required to their customers. That includes
> fixing improperly customer built K1s, KX1s, K2s and K3s under their
> 'warranty' at no charge. They are a high value added distributor who
> does not forget the customer once the sale is made.
>
> I agree that the prices can look high when just comparing the raw EDC JA
> price to our web price. What many do not realize is that EDC bears a lot
> of import and transport expense that would normally be borne by the
> customer if they buy a product direct.
>
> The K3 prices listed by EDC also include the following ALL of the
> following import and support costs that do not appear on our price list
> here:
>
> 1. The local JA consumption tax. (VAT) In the US this is added to the
> invoice at time of sale. In JA, EDC shows it already included on their
> K3 price list.
>
> 2. Import duty entering JA.
>
> (The above two items are computed based on the total cost of the product
> on the shipper invoice, including all shipping and handling costs. )
>
> - EDC can't fly 'under the radar' as many individuals try to do. Like
> us, they are carefully watched by the import officials and have to be
> squeaky clean - paying all taxes, duties etc.
>
> 3. Import shipping to JA from CA. (not cheap!)
>
> 4. Cost of handling all the customs paperwork, fee payment etc.
> Especially when importing larger value and size shipments, Japan can be
> one of the more time consuming bureaucracies to deal with.
>
> 5. Cost of the variation in the Yen - Dollar exchange rate.
> This is significant. The exchange rate has varied between 110 and 90 yen
> to the dollar over the past 18 months, 22%, and even more so over the
> past 2-1/2 years. I know of specific periods over the past ten years
> where EDC has actually lost money importing our products due to shifts
> in the exchange rate.
>
> 6. Cost of funds to carry inventory. EDC orders many of our products
> well ahead of time and stocks them at their cost, tying up funds that
> could be used elsewhere.
>
> 7. Cost to pay for their offices, test equipment and employees.
>
>
> EDC also carries all of the cost of advertising in the JA local market.
> Ads in JA CQ are way more expensive than QST.
>
> They also translate all of our manuals into Japanese. Not an easy
> undertaking.
>
> On top of these costs they also need to make a small profit. It isn't
> much, based on what I've observed. (He makes most of his revenue from
> designing custom medical equipment and custom hard disk drive
> manufacturing test equipment.)
>
> To be honest, JA8CCL does this out of his love for the hobby, and out of
> a personal friendship with me going back 20 years. Once he sells a
> product to a customer, he supports them for life. Period. He has a large
> following of loyal customers, many who have emailed us directly to
> compliment EDC on their support.
>
> That said, we're also always working with them to try to get the JA EDC
> price lower. Its a challenge, but we'll keep working on it. There is not
> a lot of margin to play with in the ham radio market.
>
> While others have pointed out that its difficult, if not impossible, to
> buy most JA manufactured top end radios directly from Japan, please
> let's not let this thread degenerate into a pro-con of one manufacturer
> or government against another.
>
> Rather than tie up the reflector with an extended conversation on this,
> please feel free to email me directly with any comments and suggestions
> you might have.
>
> 73, Eric WA6HHQ
> ----
>
>
>>> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 13:09:32 -0800
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>>>
>>> I would personally prefer to buy from a local distributor, for the exact reason you mention.
>>> So I'm willing to pay a little extra for that convenience.
>>> The question is how much will I (or more generally, one) be willing to pay for the additional convenience.
>>>
>>> With regards to ham radio equipment, bands could be different from one country to another (and certainly the case between US and JA), so there's another reason you might want to deal locally.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV
>>>
>>> From: Duncan Carter <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>>> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:51:19 -0700
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Another consideration is the degree of risk in acting as your own
>>>> import/export agent. Almost all vendors sell on terms where the buyer
>>>> is the owner of the equipment once it leave the seller's facility. If
>>>> there's a problem during transit, it becomes the buyer's problem.
>>>> Insurance can help but it's not a cure-all; avoidance of claims payment
>>>> is a common practice. In many countries, getting equipment through
>>>> customs can be a real "adventure". Most countries are also familiar
>>>> with the many ruses for avoiding import duties; most have a high degree
>>>> of regulation of payment for just this reason. Attempting to avoid such
>>>> duties can produce a high risk of having the equipment confiscated.
>>>>
>>>> Dunc, W5DC
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>

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n7ws

Re: Disgruntled Europeans

In reply to this post by Doug Turnbull

--- On Mon, 1/4/10, ab2tc <[hidden email]> wrote:
I do feel bad for my fellow hams in most other countries who are not as fortunate.

Yeah but they get all of that "free" health care.

Imagine what it would cost them if the US dollar was still a hard currency instead of Monopoly money. And it works against us going the other direction.

For example: I just got back from the post office where I bought sixty International first-class airmail stamps for $58.80 and my credit union where I got 100 $1.00 bills. DX hams want two or three dollars now for a direct QSL reply, so this
may cover 60 outgoing QSLs, if I add in the dollar bills in my wallet.

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Philippe Trottet

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Dick Williams-2

Hum !
Did Yaesu, Icom or Kenwood are sending their products straight on line and provide such attention to their customers ?
One more reason to be confident with Elecraft, a proud US company !
Great part of the succes is quality of service and Elecraft is on the way to carve out a crupper to our usual providers.
They waked up my Ham spirit after too many decades using most of the "limousine" rigs available on the market.
It's time to move to "Nascar" rigs and challenge for the "piston cup ".
Bst 73's & Happy New Year
Philippe A65BI (F5LTB), ex-9Q1TB for the last exotic one.
K3#3616
By Hams, for Hams, what else !

>>> "Dick Williams" <[hidden email]> 04-01-2010 23:08 >>>
Has anybody tried to buy a Yaesu, Icom or Kenwood direct from Japan without
going thru their dealers in the states?

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:49 AM
To: Tom Meier
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese

Tom,

If he buys direct from Elecraft, he will have Tech Support direct from
Elecraft, so I would guess he does not know his facts.

He may not have access to tech support from the Japanese distributor,
but that is a different statement.

73,
Don W3FPR

Tom Meier wrote:
> Was talking with a JA operator yesterday who said that Elecraft is getting
a
> very bad name in that country - not for their product, but because of a
> business decision to have everything go through an exclusive dealer for
both
> sales and service. The problem (according to this operator) is that the
> exclusive dealer is jacking the price up by up to 50%. Yes, it is true
that
> they can buy the product directly from Elecraft, but doing so puts you
> without access to any tech support.
>
> Don't know if this is the isolated case of a guy who doesn't have his
facts
> straight and likes to spread rumors. We've got a few of them in this
> country also. But thought I'd pass this along.
>
> 73 de Tom (K7ZZ)
>
>
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PD2R

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

To me the argument that "we" have to buy our Japanese rigs from an importer
too, isn't a very good one.
Everyone in the world has to buy there Japanese rigs from a importer so
everybody has to pay more.
But with Elecraft equipment, only the Japanese have buy there stuff from a
importer whilst the rest of the world can buy directly from Elecraft and
therefore save some money.

73, Maarten
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Maarten, PD2R
Member of the PI4DX contest group
www.pi4dx.com

Elecraft K3 nr:1849

Peter, DL2FI

Re: Disgruntled Europeans

In reply to this post by Doug Turnbull

>Okay we have VAT rates (Sales tax)
> that run between 15% and 22% depending on one's country but this does not
come
> close to explaining the price differentials.

Not only VAT, you forgot that European Dealers have to give 2 Years warranty
instead of 1 Year (or for some products only 90 Days) There also are much
higher cost for burocracy, office rental, man power, Insurance, tax. Not
only Ham Eqipment is more expensive over here, but houses, cars, Bananas,
Computers. (Ok, beer is cheaper in Germany :-)

We are working together with Elecraft since 10 years, selling all Elecraft
products. Several hundreds of European HAMs got their kits (and of course
also factory built K3) from us. I can´t count the number of K2, K1, KX1
which have been finished on my workbench due to problems the builders had.
Some DXPeditions by Germans could start only because we did a repair 3 days
before take off.

We proudly feel as a part of the Elecraft Family.

Peter, DL2FI and Nik, DL7NIK
QRPproject

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AD4C2009

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Fumiaki Okushi

WOW ! according that pdf document(http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf) If we add all the modules and filters price for a fully loaded K3,it will cost in japan 2,014,200 (two million fourteen thousand two hundred)yens,can anyone say how many USD is that amount,sounds like a lot

AD4C

"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"

--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:25 PM

From: Hector Padron <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:51:18 -0800 (PST)

> WOW ! Hard to believe,then I imagine a fully loaded K3 will be then over 5 grands in japan with that dealer EDC?

You can find the price list for K3 (and accessories) at
http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf

Note that the pdf includes Japanese so parts of the page may not render properly depending on the pdf reader you may have..

Regards,
Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV

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Tom Hammond-2

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

Hector:

According to several currency calculators:

2,014,200 JPY = $21,983.0832 USD

Whew.

73,

Tom N0SS

At 09:38 01/05/2010, you wrote:

>WOW ! according that pdf
>document(http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf) If we add all the
>modules and filters price for a fully loaded K3,it will cost in
>japan 2,014,200 (two million fourteen thousand two hundred)yens,can
>anyone say how many USD is that amount,sounds like a lot
>
>AD4C
>
>
>"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"
>
>--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>From: Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>To: [hidden email]
>Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:25 PM
>
>
>From: Hector Padron <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:51:18 -0800 (PST)
>
> > WOW ! Hard to believe,then I imagine a fully loaded K3 will be
> then over 5 grands in japan with that dealer EDC?
>
>You can find the price list for K3 (and accessories) at
>http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf
>
>Note that the pdf includes Japanese so parts of the page may not
>render properly depending on the pdf reader you may have..
>
>Regards,
>Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
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>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Barry N1EU

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

Looking at the same PDF, I get 622,900 yen = $6800 plus 22,900yen/$250 per 8-pole filter.

73,
Barry N1EU

Tom Hammond-2 wrote

Hector:

According to several currency calculators:

2,014,200 JPY = $21,983.0832 USD

Whew.

73,

Tom N0SS

At 09:38 01/05/2010, you wrote:
>WOW ! according that pdf
>document(http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf) If we add all the
>modules and filters price for a fully loaded K3,it will cost in
>japan 2,014,200 (two million fourteen thousand two hundred)yens,can
>anyone say how many USD is that amount,sounds like a lot
>
>AD4C
>
>
>"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"
>
>--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Fumiaki Okushi <fumiaki@okushi.com> wrote:
>
>
>From: Fumiaki Okushi <fumiaki@okushi.com>
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:25 PM
>
>
>From: Hector Padron <ad4c2008@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:51:18 -0800 (PST)
>
> > WOW ! Hard to believe,then I imagine a fully loaded K3 will be
> then over 5 grands in japan with that dealer EDC?
>
>You can find the price list for K3 (and accessories) at
>http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf
>

Matt Palmer-4

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Tom Hammond-2

Need to learn to count there hector, that number seems a bit high
based on my calculation more like 6-7k. 1 yen roughly equals $0.01. So
not so much. I think you added multiple K3's in there, if you just
added up all the colums. The price is even lower if you dont get
factory built.

Matt
W8ESE
心正即刀正

On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Tom Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hector:
>
> According to several currency calculators:
>
> 2,014,200 JPY = $21,983.0832 USD
>
> Whew.
>
> 73,
>
> Tom N0SS
>
> At 09:38 01/05/2010, you wrote:
>>WOW ! according that pdf
>>document(http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf) If we add all the
>>modules and filters price for a fully loaded K3,it will cost in
>>japan 2,014,200 (two million fourteen thousand two hundred)yens,can
>>anyone say how many USD is that amount,sounds like a lot
>>
>>AD4C
>>
>>
>>"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"
>>
>>--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>From: Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]>
>>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>>To: [hidden email]
>>Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:25 PM
>>
>>
>>From: Hector Padron <[hidden email]>
>>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>>Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:51:18 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> > WOW ! Hard to believe,then I imagine a fully loaded K3 will be
>> then over 5 grands in japan with that dealer EDC?
>>
>>You can find the price list for K3 (and accessories) at
>>http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf
>>
>>Note that the pdf includes Japanese so parts of the page may not
>>render properly depending on the pdf reader you may have..
>>
>>Regards,
>>Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV
>>
>>______________________________________________________________
>>Elecraft mailing list
>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese [END of thread]

Administrator

Guys - Lets end this thread for now. This is something we are acutely
aware of and are constantly working on.

73, Eric WA6HHQ
Elecraft list moderator.
----

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Ken Chandler

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by AD4C2009

I think someone has shifted a decimal point me thinks, I've heard of
profit mark-up, but this during a resession beats the lot....Hi

Ken..G0ORH

Sent from my iPhone

On 5 Jan 2010, at 15:38, Hector Padron <[hidden email]> wrote:

> WOW ! according that pdf document(http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf
> ) If we add all the modules and filters price for a fully loaded
> K3,it will cost in japan 2,014,200 (two million fourteen thousand
> two hundred)yens,can anyone say how many USD is that amount,sounds
> like a lot
>
> AD4C
>
>
> "For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"
>
> --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> From: Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:25 PM
>
>
> From: Hector Padron <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:51:18 -0800 (PST)
>
>> WOW ! Hard to believe,then I imagine a fully loaded K3 will be then
>> over 5 grands in japan with that dealer EDC?
>
> You can find the price list for K3 (and accessories) at
> http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf
>
> Note that the pdf includes Japanese so parts of the page may not
> render properly depending on the pdf reader you may have..
>
> Regards,
> Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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AD4C2009

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Tom Hammond-2

WOW !! You are telling me that a ham in japan who will like to purchase a fully loaded K3 will have to pay almost twenty two grands? Unbelivable,with that amount I can buy me two IC-7800,poor guys,that is not good for them at all.
It will be better for them to order it directly from Elecraft and pay all the transportation expenses I guess.

AD4C

"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"

--- On Tue, 1/5/10, Tom Hammond <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Tom Hammond <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
To: "Hector Padron" <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 3:48 PM

Hector:

According to several currency calculators:

2,014,200 JPY = $21,983.0832 USD

Whew.

73,

Tom N0SS

At 09:38 01/05/2010, you wrote:

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese [Ended]

Administrator

Hi Hector - Its nowhere near this high. Someone added incorrectly.

Again - Let's please end this thread. Anyone with questions on this,
please feel free to email me.

73, Eric WA6HHQ

Hector Padron wrote:
> WOW !! You are telling me that a ham in japan who will like to purchase a fully loaded K3 will have to pay almost twenty two grands?
>
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AD6XY

Re: Disgruntled Europeans

In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO

Yes - we are lucky in speaking a similar language to the US. I have imported directly from Japan, but it is more difficult to pay.

Currently the exchange rate is very poor, back in 2008 when I ordered my K3 there were over $2 to the pound. At Dayton that year there were a lot of Brits buying stuff. The "Dayton Specials" and the exchange rate combined made equipment approximately half as expensive compared to the UK. I bought loads, even with VAT it was a bargain. The exchange rate went down to $1.35 last Spring and consequently, US prices were only 10-20 percent lower than UK ones, so I bought nothing at Dayton last year. Now we are back up to $1.60 and prices are again favorable.

But - this has little to do with Elecraft - who refreshingly have fixed prices for us, excellent support and can understand English. They even allowed me to pay 100% up front for my K3 6 months before it was ready to ship. I just wish we could set up some form of monthly bulk shipping arrangement to the UK because all the little items are uneconomically expensive due to shipping charges and the parcelforce extortion money.

Julian, G4ILO wrote

Doug Turnbull wrote

Many EU hams look at prices in QST and CQ and just dream. It seems that one can
purchase Japanese made radios in the States for the same price in dollars as
one pays in Euros or Sterling.

It's really a dream. There are so many hidden costs that much of the saving gets eaten up by the time the product gets here. I just did a quick example of a Yaesu VX-8R, listed by Universal Radio at $379. Add on say $50 for international shipping. That comes to GBP 268 (£1 = $1.60) You'll be charged 17.5% VAT on arrival here plus a GBP 13 tax collection fee bringing the total to GBP 328. Nevada Radio is selling the EU version (VX-8E) for GBP 338. So ten quid gets you the EU version plus a locally supported warranty.

I believe that being able to purchase the kit K3 directly is a great plus to
Elecrafter sales in the EU. True one is a bit exposed as to service but if
one has built the kit then individual boards can be returned for service.
The K3 is small and not that heavy to ship back if needs be for that matter.

I wonder if those who have actually had to ship a K3 back to the US from Europe would agree? I know for a fact that whenever I write on my website or blog about something I bought in the US I get emails from hams asking where in the UK they can order. Many in our hobby are a pretty conservative bunch and will not buy from outside the UK. I think Elecraft could actually be losing sales by not selling through local dealers, not least because there are some people with money burning a hole in their pocket who go to Martin Lynch or W&S on a Saturday morning looking for a new toy to take home and play with, and if there isn't a K3 there to try out they'll buy something else instead.

However I suspect if Elecraft did sell through UK dealers the extra cost to us would be a lot more than in my Yaesu example because there is no dealer mark-up in the price we pay from Elecraft, whereas the Japanese manufacturers have local offices and dealers taking their cut on both sides of the Atlantic. So carry on selling direct, please. :)

Ken Chandler

Re: Disgruntled Europeans

Yes, quite agree Their have been a lot of guys in the uk who would
like a uk agent to take on a bulk delivery / order monthy, this would
lessen the hassle with rip off parcelforce, etc.
The problems I've had with these guys beggers belief.
I have sent a lengthy email to Elecraft about this, and they are fully
aware of our problems.
Someone ( I have no connection with the company, just excellent
service) like Ron, at VINE Antenna's, would handle that with no
problem.

Ken..G0ORH
K2, sn 5877, k3 sn 3759

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Jan 2010, at 09:02, AD6XY <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Yes - we are lucky in speaking a similar language to the US. I have
> imported
> directly from Japan, but it is more difficult to pay.
>
> Currently the exchange rate is very poor, back in 2008 when I
> ordered my K3
> there were over $2 to the pound. At Dayton that year there were a
> lot of
> Brits buying stuff. The "Dayton Specials" and the exchange rate
> combined
> made equipment approximately half as expensive compared to the UK. I
> bought
> loads, even with VAT it was a bargain. The exchange rate went down
> to $1.35
> last Spring and consequently, US prices were only 10-20 percent
> lower than
> UK ones, so I bought nothing at Dayton last year. Now we are back up
> to
> $1.60 and prices are again favorable.
>
> But - this has little to do with Elecraft - who refreshingly have
> fixed
> prices for us, excellent support and can understand English. They even
> allowed me to pay 100% up front for my K3 6 months before it was
> ready to
> ship. I just wish we could set up some form of monthly bulk shipping
> arrangement to the UK because all the little items are uneconomically
> expensive due to shipping charges and the parcelforce extortion money.
>
>
>
>
>
> Julian, G4ILO wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Doug Turnbull wrote:
>>>
>>> Many EU hams look at prices in QST and CQ and just dream. It
>>> seems that
>>> one can
>>> purchase Japanese made radios in the States for the same price in
>>> dollars
>>> as
>>> one pays in Euros or Sterling.
>>>
>> It's really a dream. There are so many hidden costs that much of the
>> saving gets eaten up by the time the product gets here. I just did
>> a quick
>> example of a Yaesu VX-8R, listed by Universal Radio at $379. Add on
>> say
>> $50 for international shipping. That comes to GBP 268 (£1 = $1.60)
>> You'll
>> be charged 17.5% VAT on arrival here plus a GBP 13 tax collection fee
>> bringing the total to GBP 328. Nevada Radio is selling the EU version
>> (VX-8E) for GBP 338. So ten quid gets you the EU version plus a
>> locally
>> supported warranty.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I believe that being able to purchase the kit K3 directly is a
>>> great plus
>>> to
>>> Elecrafter sales in the EU. True one is a bit exposed as to
>>> service but
>>> if
>>> one has built the kit then individual boards can be returned for
>>> service.
>>> The K3 is small and not that heavy to ship back if needs be for that
>>> matter.
>>>
>>
>> I wonder if those who have actually had to ship a K3 back to the US
>> from
>> Europe would agree? I know for a fact that whenever I write on my
>> website
>> or blog about something I bought in the US I get emails from hams
>> asking
>> where in the UK they can order. Many in our hobby are a pretty
>> conservative bunch and will not buy from outside the UK. I think
>> Elecraft
>> could actually be losing sales by not selling through local
>> dealers, not
>> least because there are some people with money burning a hole in
>> their
>> pocket who go to Martin Lynch or W&S on a Saturday morning looking
>> for a
>> new toy to take home and play with, and if there isn't a K3 there
>> to try
>> out they'll buy something else instead.
>>
>> However I suspect if Elecraft did sell through UK dealers the extra
>> cost
>> to us would be a lot more than in my Yaesu example because there is
>> no
>> dealer mark-up in the price we pay from Elecraft, whereas the
>> Japanese
>> manufacturers have local offices and dealers taking their cut on both
>> sides of the Atlantic. So carry on selling direct, please. :)
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Disgrunteled-Japanese-tp4250692p4259763.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Geoffrey Downs-2

Re: Disgruntled Europeans

Delighted if a way of reducing shipping costs to the UK could be found but I
for one would not want an exclusive agent arrangement in the UK that would
prevent us dealing direct with Elecraft. I have been very happy being able
to order direct and access the support services there and would like to
continue to do so. If Elecraft set up an agent arrangement in the UK we
might well have reduced shipping costs and less hassle with Parcelforce
(although my experience with them has not been too bad) but other costs
would easily arise to take their place because of the agent's premises,
stock, employees, overheads, currency risk, warranty and service costs etc
etc - see Eric's recent posting about the arrangement with the Japanese
agent. And with a manufacturer who is so responsive and open it would be a
backward step to have to communicate with them at second hand.

73 to all

Geoff
G3UCK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Chandler" <[hidden email]>

> Yes, quite agree Their have been a lot of guys in the uk who would
> like a uk agent to take on a bulk delivery / order monthy, this would
> lessen the hassle with rip off parcelforce, etc.
> The problems I've had with these guys beggers belief.
> I have sent a lengthy email to Elecraft about this, and they are fully
> aware of our problems.
> Someone ( I have no connection with the company, just excellent
> service) like Ron, at VINE Antenna's, would handle that with no
> problem.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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w7aqk

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

In reply to this post by Tom Hammond-2

Somebody is double counting (or triple counting) what is shown on the PDF.
Probably confusing since the description is in japanese. They are showing,
I presume, a model as a kit, and then as a pre-built unit, etc. It looks
like the basic 10 watt kit is around 300,000 yen, which is something like
$3,000, but that's before other add-ons. Anyway, a K3, fully loaded, is
nowhere near $21,000 for a japanese buyer! Nonetheless, it does add up to a
significantly higher cost than we pay here in the U.S.

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Hammond" <[hidden email]>
To: "Hector Padron" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese

Matt Palmer-4

Re: Disgrunteled Japanese

know this topic is closed but I would like to point out, I buy stuff
from japan all the time for martial arts (kendo) It is cheaper for me
in the USA to buy stuff from japan than it is for a Japanese person in
japan (significantly so, sometimes as much as 50% cheaper) because I
dont have to pay their equivalent of VAT. It is all relative.

Matt
W8ESE

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:57 AM, David Yarnes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Somebody is double counting (or triple counting) what is shown on the PDF.
> Probably confusing since the description is in japanese. They are showing,
> I presume, a model as a kit, and then as a pre-built unit, etc. It looks
> like the basic 10 watt kit is around 300,000 yen, which is something like
> $3,000, but that's before other add-ons. Anyway, a K3, fully loaded, is
> nowhere near $21,000 for a japanese buyer! Nonetheless, it does add up to a
> significantly higher cost than we pay here in the U.S.
>
> Dave W7AQK
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Hammond" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Hector Padron" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 7:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>
>
>> Hector:
>>
>> According to several currency calculators:
>>
>> 2,014,200 JPY = $21,983.0832 USD
>>
>> Whew.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Tom N0SS
>>
>> At 09:38 01/05/2010, you wrote:
>>>WOW ! according that pdf
>>>document(http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf) If we add all the
>>>modules and filters price for a fully loaded K3,it will cost in
>>>japan 2,014,200 (two million fourteen thousand two hundred)yens,can
>>>anyone say how many USD is that amount,sounds like a lot
>>>
>>>AD4C
>>>
>>>
>>>"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"
>>>
>>>--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>From: Fumiaki Okushi <[hidden email]>
>>>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>>>To: [hidden email]
>>>Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:25 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>From: Hector Padron <[hidden email]>
>>>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Disgrunteled Japanese
>>>Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:51:18 -0800 (PST)
>>>
>>> > WOW ! Hard to believe,then I imagine a fully loaded K3 will be
>>> then over 5 grands in japan with that dealer EDC?
>>>
>>>You can find the price list for K3 (and accessories) at
>>>http://www.edcjp.jp/shop/order-K3.pdf
>>>
>>>Note that the pdf includes Japanese so parts of the page may not
>>>render properly depending on the pdf reader you may have..
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Fumi Okushi/KB2KVV
>>>
>>>______________________________________________________________
>>>Elecraft mailing list
>>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>______________________________________________________________
>>>Elecraft mailing list
>>>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>