Elecraft

Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

Classic

List

Threaded

39 messages Options

K8TE

Re: Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

I saw the dual panadatpors yesterday--very, very cool!

I'll try to snap some pictures today. BTW, my phone is connected to the
Internet, although the connection via Verizon is almost useless here in San
Ramon! It does take pictures and provides a very accurate time. I operate
my K3 and KX3 away from home a lot, frequently out of reach of the Internet.
Accurate time is sometimes valuable to me.

I brought extra cash with me to entice anyone at the Elecraft booth for an
early K4 delivery. It hasn't worked yet. I need a lower serial number than
my old friend Peter, N5YJ, formerly K5HAB.

I did get Wayne and Eric to autograph the bottom cover of my K2 kit. I'll
begin the kit's inventory soon and even assembly later this year. I'm
hoping my K4 arrives before I finish the K2 since the latter's progress will
likely be very slow.

73, Bill, K8TE

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Elecraft mailing list

Re: Radio clocks, internet and security!

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

I follow those who counsel and implement "caution" with all the
modern/current internet connections and digital wonders. Just because
something is possible doesn't mean it's wise. I have had one - yes, one
- virus infection in 34 years of being online with minimal firewall and
virus protection. I attribute this to strict caution in opening,
responding, and searching internet content of any and all kinds. There's
a Supreme Court maxim about not taking any and all cases that I think
applies here: "Resist the entering wedge."

...robert
KE2WY

On 10/19/2019 00:08, Walter Underwood wrote:

> A zillion years ago, I was maintaining some ???groupware??? for engineers at HP (Notesfiles). I was amazed to learn that some people used a different set of commands than I did. They found some bugs in those clearly superfluous commands. Despite their obviously mistaken approach to using the software, I fixed the bugs. :-)
>
> So, be open to different uses of a product. Me, I keep Pacific time on my watch and UTC on my KX3. I log my SOTA activations in UTC. I reset the KX3 clock before each activation.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
>> On Oct 18, 2019, at 4:54 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Chuck and all,
>>
>> How many actually use the clock in the K3, K3S, KX3 or KX2?
>> I certainly don't. In the case of the KX3 it is used to time the charging of the internal batteries - good use.
>>
>> I can see a ham without a watch or cell phone to want the rig to display the time for logging, but for me, my good old Timex on my wrist tells me what time to log. The clock in my KX3 is more difficult to access than simply glancing at my wrist!
>>
>> I have never even set the clock in my K3 or KX3! Nor do I feel a need to do so.
>>
>> As far as the K4 Linux software/firmware being internet connected, I have my reservations about that. I have enough stuff connected to the internet, and someone will have to demonstrate the benefit of my ham radio being connected to the internet in addition to my computers.
>>
>> If connection of the K4 to the internet is to be done, I have concerns about security and personal privacy. Even Linux is subject to bad stuff from the internet - it is not entirely secure, it is just that the number of users is small compared to other OS versions and hackers just do not bother for most cases.
>>
>> When my refrigerator or microwave begins to listen in to my conversations, I begin to worry about the BIG Brother consequences.
>>
>> BTW, I do not have an Alexa or Siri device for those security reasons. I can easily use a switch on the wall to operate a light switch and it is secure. I can turn on my home theater or my computer AV application when I want to hear music or view videos.
>>
>> Call me old-fashioned, but I like to have control of my environment. The Internet Of Things seems to be fraught with exposures and dangers that I am not willing to accept.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 10/18/2019 2:03 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:
>>> Is a more accurate clock possible? I imagine that depends on available chips but it???s a common topic.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

--
Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY
[hidden email]
Syracuse, New York, USA
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

David Gilbert

Re: Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

In reply to this post by David Woolley (E.L)

I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does everything by itself. For some
reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few
minutes before it kicks in. So far I haven't figured out why.

73,
Dave AB7E

On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
> There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer
> every time that you boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an
> installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP
> reference implementation, currently owned by the University of
> Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.
>
> The reference version means the version used to verify the
> implementability of the specification in the RFC document.
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Tox

Re: Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see
if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just
suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of
event, and just waiting for next scheduled update.

Good luck

Scott
AD6YT

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does everything by itself. For some
> reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few
> minutes before it kicks in. So far I haven't figured out why.
>
> 73,
> Dave AB7E
>
>
> On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
> > There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer
> > every time that you boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an
> > installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP
> > reference implementation, currently owned by the University of
> > Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.
> >
> > The reference version means the version used to verify the
> > implementability of the specification in the RFC document.
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Dual panadapter on K4 at Pacificon

For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant. For timed or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate. I see on reason to maintain microsecond timing.

Remember, it's only a hobby.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see
> if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just
> suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of
> event, and just waiting for next scheduled update.
>
> Good luck
>
> Scott
> AD6YT
>
> On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does everything by itself. For some
>> reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few
>> minutes before it kicks in. So far I haven't figured out why.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>>> On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
>>> There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer
>>> every time that you boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an
>>> installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP
>>> reference implementation, currently owned by the University of
>>> Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.
>>>
>>> The reference version means the version used to verify the
>>> implementability of the specification in the RFC document.
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

David Gilbert

Re: Clock Accuracy

My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's
unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I
couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for
contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better
for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two
tenths of a second of everyone else.

Dave AB7E

On 10/19/2019 12:32 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant. For timed or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate. I see on reason to maintain microsecond timing.
>
> Remember, it's only a hobby.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see
>> if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just
>> suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of
>> event, and just waiting for next scheduled update.
>>
>> Good luck
>>
>> Scott
>> AD6YT
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does everything by itself. For some
>>> reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few
>>> minutes before it kicks in. So far I haven't figured out why.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Dave AB7E
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
>>>> There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer
>>>> every time that you boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an
>>>> installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP
>>>> reference implementation, currently owned by the University of
>>>> Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.
>>>>
>>>> The reference version means the version used to verify the
>>>> implementability of the specification in the RFC document.
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>

Jim Brown-10

Re: Clock Accuracy

Clock stability will depend on a lot of things, including temperature
and the quality of the clock circuitry. Over the years, the clocks in my
Thinkpads have tended to be pretty stable. The $20 Casio on my wrist has
drifted about 30 seconds in the two years I've worn it.

Since first using JT65 6-8 years ago, I've used
http://www.timesynctool.com/ with the same result. I found it far
easier to install than Meinberg (which I tried to install to be able to
incorporate data from a USB GPS puck when expeditioning out of range of
internet). Instead, I settled on BktTimeSync for that purpose.

73, Jim K9YC

On 10/19/2019 12:57 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
> My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's
> unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I
> couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for
> contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better
> for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two
> tenths of a second of everyone else.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Gwen Patton

Re: Clock Accuracy

I use the same tool as Jim Brown. Nettime (from timesynctool.com) works
really well, and can be polled anytime to make sure the time is as close as
possible.

Gwen, NG3P

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 4:24 PM Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Clock stability will depend on a lot of things, including temperature
> and the quality of the clock circuitry. Over the years, the clocks in my
> Thinkpads have tended to be pretty stable. The $20 Casio on my wrist has
> drifted about 30 seconds in the two years I've worn it.
>
> Since first using JT65 6-8 years ago, I've used
> http://www.timesynctool.com/ with the same result. I found it far
> easier to install than Meinberg (which I tried to install to be able to
> incorporate data from a USB GPS puck when expeditioning out of range of
> internet). Instead, I settled on BktTimeSync for that purpose.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 10/19/2019 12:57 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
> > My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's
> > unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I
> > couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for
> > contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better
> > for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two
> > tenths of a second of everyone else.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--

-+-+-+-+-
Jenny Everywhere's Infinite: Quark Time
http://quarktime.net
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

john@kk9a.com

Re: Clock Accuracy

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

I cannot imagine starting a contest two minutes before everyone else
or ending it two minutes later.

John KK9A - W4AAA

David Gilbert AB7E wrote:

My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's
unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I
couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for
contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better
for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two
tenths of a second of everyone else.

Dave AB7E

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: Clock Accuracy

And you believe everyone else follows all the rules? Two minutes early and stop 2 minutes early and 3KW PEP. Get your head out of the sand. There is no honor among thieves.

Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2019, at 9:29 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
> I cannot imagine starting a contest two minutes before everyone else or ending it two minutes later.
>
> John KK9A - W4AAA
>
>
>
> David Gilbert AB7E wrote:
>
>
> My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's
> unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I
> couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for
> contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better
> for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two
> tenths of a second of everyone else.
>
> Dave AB7E
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Tony Estep

Re: Clock Accuracy

In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com

I don't know Meinberg, but I use Dimension 4. It starts when my computer
boots. From pressing the On switch to full operation is about 1 minute, and
the computer time is set within 0.1 second. Anybody can do the same, no
problem.

Tony KT0NY
T

T
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Jim Brown-10

Re: Clock Accuracy

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

On 10/19/2019 7:42 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> Two minutes early and stop 2 minutes early and 3KW PEP. Get your head out of the sand. There is no honor among thieves.

Timing errors like this would be exposed by log checking. I'm a member
of one of the largest US contest clubs, and I've visited many of the
bigger stations. Power cheating is NOT what WE do. It is, however,
widely believed that there is significant power cheating in some
countries.

73, Jim K9YC
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Randy Heise

Re: Clock Accuracy

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating. But all these software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is there something equivalent for Macs?

Randy, NB7E

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2019, at 12:59 PM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of everyone else.
>
> Dave AB7E
>
>
>> On 10/19/2019 12:32 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant. For timed or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate. I see on reason to maintain microsecond timing.
>>
>> Remember, it's only a hobby.
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see
>>> if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just
>>> suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of
>>> event, and just waiting for next scheduled update.
>>>
>>> Good luck
>>>
>>> Scott
>>> AD6YT
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does everything by itself. For some
>>>> reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few
>>>> minutes before it kicks in. So far I haven't figured out why.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Dave AB7E
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
>>>>> There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer
>>>>> every time that you boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an
>>>>> installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP
>>>>> reference implementation, currently owned by the University of
>>>>> Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reference version means the version used to verify the
>>>>> implementability of the specification in the RFC document.
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

weaverwf@usermail.com

Re: Clock Accuracy

Does the Mac need one? How gar off is your clock?

73,

Bill WE5P

>
> On Oct 19, 2019 at 23:50, Randy Heise <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating. But all these software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is there something equivalent for Macs? Randy, NB7E Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 19, 2019, at 12:59 PM, David Gilbert wrote: > > > My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of everyone else. > > Dave AB7E > > >> On 10/19/2019 12:32 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: >> For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant. For timed or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate. I see on reason to maintain microsecond timing. >> >> Remember, it's only a hobby. >> >> Bob, K4TAX >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox wrote: >>> >>> Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see >>> if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just >>> suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of >>> event, and just waiting for next scheduled update. >>> >>> Good luck >>> >>> Scott >>> AD6YT >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does everything by itself. For some >>>> reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few >>>> minutes before it kicks in. So far I haven't figured out why. >>>> >>>> 73, >>>> Dave AB7E >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote: >>>>> There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer >>>>> every time that you boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an >>>>> installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP >>>>> reference implementation, currently owned by the University of >>>>> Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF. >>>>> >>>>> The reference version means the version used to verify the >>>>> implementability of the specification in the RFC document. >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >>> >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

David Gilbert

Re: Clock Accuracy

In reply to this post by john@kk9a.com

I was talking about logged QSO times. Pretty sure you know what's what
I meant, so I'm pretty sure you're just trying to be cute.

Dave AB7E

On 10/19/2019 7:29 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I cannot imagine starting a contest two minutes before everyone else
> or ending it two minutes later.
>
> John KK9A - W4AAA
>
>
>
> David Gilbert AB7E wrote:
>
>
> My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's
> unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I
> couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for
> contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better
> for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two
> tenths of a second of everyone else.
>
> Dave AB7E
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: Clock Accuracy

Administrator

Wow, it mist be a poor propagation day..

Thread closed. Its volume is way out of control.

Folks, please self moderate on your posts when there have been a lot of postings on a topic. Its not necessary to beat topics to death as this one has been.

73,
Eric
Moderator etc.
elecraft.com

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Edward R Cole

Re: Clock Accuracy

In reply to this post by David Gilbert

Since I run mostly digital eme (JT65) my computer time accuracy needs
are pretty strick (<1 second). For years I used dimension 4 and
switched to BktTimeSync (from IZ2BKT) last four years to utilize GPS
time using a cheap USB dongle GPS unit.

BktTime can sync to NTP off the Internet or from a GPS. Or have both
running. I run with NTP turned off and GPS Sync on startup so I do
not need an Internet connection. I have another computer for
Internet/e-mail/loggers, etc.

Just booted the computer and got an update of 1.903000 seconds. Next
sync shifted time -0.027000 seconds. I have it set for sync every
ten minutes which keeps time within about 0.2 seconds which is more
than adequate for synchronous digital modes (like JT65 or FT8).

I do not use the clock in my K3 so rarely update it. Logging is
manual using computer time.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
Dubus-NA Business mail:
[hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bill Frantz

Re: Clock Accuracy

In reply to this post by Randy Heise

Apologies to Eric who closed this thread, but getting Macs to
work is on topic and generally not covered much on this list.
Please tell me if I am off base and I'll try to clean up my act.

The built in Mac time synch works very well. Since I sometimes
operate where there is no Internet access, I am thrown back on
the accuracy of the computer clock. I can get enough off that
FT8 doesn't work any more. The solution is to fire up my phone
as a hot spot, connect to it, and use the Date and Time panel to
change the time provider away from North America and back. That
gooses the software into doing a synch and then things are good again.

I have never gotten manual setting of the time to work well
enough for FT8. I would love a technique that worked well for
when that rare DX is the one that is off. A QSO in both logs is
more valuable than correct time.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 10/19/19 at 11:50 PM, [hidden email] (Randy
Heise) wrote:

>As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating.
>But all these software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is
>there something equivalent for Macs?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | When an old person dies, a | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | library burns. - Joe McGawon | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | Irish Ethnographer | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-3

Re: Clock Accuracy

In reply to this post by Randy Heise

Most operating systems have NTP clients built in.

Sure, there are a million clients out there (I use Tardis), and there
are probably more that work under BSD-like UNIX (MacOS).

The one built in to the OS is probably just fine.

73 -- Lynn

On 10/19/2019 8:50 PM, Randy Heise wrote:

> As a new FT-8 user on my K2, I find this thread fascinating. But all these software solutions appear to be for PC’s. Is there something equivalent for Macs?
>
> Randy, NB7E
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 19, 2019, at 12:59 PM, David Gilbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> My laptop, which I use for FT8, fires up about 2.5 seconds off. That's unusable for FT8, which is why I use Meinberg NTP to sync it. I couldn't care less if it was 2 minutes off for logging (even for contesting), but for FT8 it should be, as you say, 0.5 seconds or better for best results. Meinberg (which is free) puts me within one or two tenths of a second of everyone else.
>>
>> Dave AB7E
>>
>>
>>> On 10/19/2019 12:32 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>>> For logging purposes +/- a few seconds is relatively unimportant. For timed or sequence transmissions 0.5 seconds seems adequate. I see on reason to maintain microsecond timing.
>>>
>>> Remember, it's only a hobby.
>>>
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Oct 19, 2019, at 2:19 PM, Tox <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Typical NTP implementations only query every N minutes. Might check to see
>>>> if your implementation also checks at startup, but if you're just
>>>> suspend/waking a windows laptop it may not be triggering that sort of
>>>> event, and just waiting for next scheduled update.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>> AD6YT
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM David Gilbert <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't have to rerun Meinberg. It does everything by itself. For some
>>>>> reason it just doesn't seem to do it on startup ... it takes a few
>>>>> minutes before it kicks in. So far I haven't figured out why.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73,
>>>>> Dave AB7E
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/19/2019 4:37 AM, David Woolley wrote:
>>>>>> There is something wrong if you have to re-run a Windows installer
>>>>>> every time that you boot Windows! The Meinberg product is just an
>>>>>> installer; the actual software installed is the open source NTP
>>>>>> reference implementation, currently owned by the University of
>>>>>> Delaware, and developed under the leadership of David Mills W3HCF.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reference version means the version used to verify the
>>>>>> implementability of the specification in the RFC document.
>>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>