Dynamic Mics on K3
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I'm trying to use a dynamic mic with the K3 (KIO3 MIC INPUT high gain)
but I can't be satisfied with the modulation (I'm listening with another radio on 144 MHz using an XV144 with the K3). If I keep the compression level below 15 the mod is awful. Tried with 4 or 5 different dynamic mics, but the results are almost the same. I made a couple of ipothesis: Balanced Mics doesn't match too well with the unbalanced input of the radio. The mic level is too low (I tried to push with mic gain and TXG VCE, but no results so far). Any suggestion? 73 de Giulio IW3HVB ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Most microphones appear to work fine with the K3, I am not sure why you
are trying to use a balanced mic with the K3. Anyway, the common MC-43S microphone from Kenwood, as used on the TS-570, will work well on a K3 if you want a low cost microphone to try. I would suggest a mic gain setting of "high" and 30, with compression of 20 with that mic. Also computer headsets work well for many users, these are very low cost. Some adjustment of the TX EQ sometimes helps. You don't say which type of modulation you are using, SSB sounds fine, if you are using AM or FM the current beta firmware of 2.80 doesn't include compression on AM (not sure about FM), the next release will. I have been testing with 2.81 and that works well on AM with compression. If you e-mail me off list, I will send you a link to a 14 MB MP3 file of the UK Elecraft net from this Sunday (3.629 MHz LSB). All the stations on that net, except one (who was using a K2), were using a K3 and all have good to excellent sounding audio. 73 Dave, G4AON I'm trying to use a dynamic mic with the K3 (KIO3 MIC INPUT high gain) but I can't be satisfied with the modulation (I'm listening with another radio on 144 MHz using an XV144 with the K3). If I keep the compression level below 15 the mod is awful. Tried with 4 or 5 different dynamic mics, but the results are almost the same. I made a couple of ipothesis: Balanced Mics doesn't match too well with the unbalanced input of the radio. The mic level is too low (I tried to push with mic gain and TXG VCE, but no results so far). Any suggestion? 73 de Giulio IW3HVB ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Giulio Pico - IW3HVB
What does the transmit audio sound like on the hf bands? Fern
----- Original Message ----- From: "Giulio Pico - IW3HVB" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:39 PM Subject: [Elecraft] Dynamic Mics on K3 I'm trying to use a dynamic mic with the K3 (KIO3 MIC INPUT high gain) but I can't be satisfied with the modulation (I'm listening with another radio on 144 MHz using an XV144 with the K3). If I keep the compression level below 15 the mod is awful. Tried with 4 or 5 different dynamic mics, but the results are almost the same. I made a couple of ipothesis: Balanced Mics doesn't match too well with the unbalanced input of the radio. The mic level is too low (I tried to push with mic gain and TXG VCE, but no results so far). Any suggestion? 73 de Giulio IW3HVB ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.20/1943 - Release Date: 2/10/2009 7:20 AM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Giulio Pico - IW3HVB
Giulio,
You did not say what microphones you were trying to use, only that they were 'dynamic'. Are you attempting to use Pro-Audio microphones? If so, check out the information provided by Jim Brown K9YC at http://haminterfacing.pdf/. Do your microphones have adequate output? Do they need Phantom Power? There can be many reasons you are not having success. How does the audio sound from the K3 monitor. You said you did the evaluation on 144 MHz, but what mode? If it is FM, then many have reported issues with 'thin audio' on FM, and Elecraft is currently working on improvement for that condition. How does the K3 sound with the microphones on SSB? 73, Don W3FPR Giulio Pico - IW3HVB wrote: > I'm trying to use a dynamic mic with the K3 (KIO3 MIC INPUT high gain) > but I can't be satisfied with the modulation (I'm listening with another > radio on 144 MHz using an XV144 with the K3). > If I keep the compression level below 15 the mod is awful. Tried with 4 > or 5 different dynamic mics, but the results are almost the same. > I made a couple of ipothesis: > Balanced Mics doesn't match too well with the unbalanced input of the radio. > The mic level is too low (I tried to push with mic gain and TXG VCE, but > no results so far). > Any suggestion? > > 73 de Giulio IW3HVB > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Don Wilhelm ha scritto:
> Giulio, > > You did not say what microphones you were trying to use, only that > they were 'dynamic'. Are you attempting to use Pro-Audio > microphones? If so, check out the information provided by Jim Brown > K9YC at http://haminterfacing.pdf/. Do your microphones have adequate > output? Do they need Phantom Power? There can be many reasons you > are not having success. > > How does the audio sound from the K3 monitor. You said you did the > evaluation on 144 MHz, but what mode? If it is FM, then many have > reported issues with 'thin audio' on FM, and Elecraft is currently > working on improvement for that condition. How does the K3 sound with > the microphones on SSB? > Currently I'm using a Shure SM57 dynamic mic. The others are brandless or unknown. The mic doesn't need phantom power, but I agree with you that the output level of the microphone maybe is a little low. The tests I run were on SSB only, no FM or AM. The sound on the K3 monitor seems perfect (and that points the problem elsewhere, that is a test I didn't make until a minute ago). After a brief test on hf (listening on a K2) the audio seems fairly better than on 144 MHz. I've a feeling about the XV144.... It seems that at a certain point in the IF path the signal become reduced in bandwidth, maybe the filters are a little off band.... 73 de Giulio IW3HVB ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:15:40 +0100, Giulio Pico - IW3HVB wrote:
>Currently I'm using a Shure SM57 dynamic mic. Hello Giulio, That mic will work just fine with a K3. I use an RE16, which is electrically quite similar. A correction to the link that Don gave you. It's http://audiosystemsgroup.com/HamInterfacing.pdf With any pro mic, you should adjust the TX equalizer to reduce the level of the lowest audio bands and boost the level of the two highest bands. The TXEQ settings in my K3 are: 50 -16dB 100 -16dB 200 -10dB 400 -3dB 800 0dB 1600 0dB 2400 +3dB 3200 +10dB To set mic gain and compression, follow the instructions in the K3 manual. My compression control is set to provide an indicated 10-14dB on the compression meter on peaks. I'm a serious contester, and my rig consistently gets reports of excellent audio from other serious contesters, including some who are also audio engineers. 73, Jim Brown K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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> With any pro mic, you should adjust the TX equalizer to reduce
> the level of the lowest audio bands and boost the level of the > two highest bands. The TXEQ settings in my K3 are: Jim's settings look good for standard bandwidth SSB. For the K3's ESSB mode, I would rein-in on the EQ extremes, and try a cut at 200Hz. The 50-100Hz bands can be flat or even boosted slightly, depending on the response of the mic. At the high end, I would back off on the 3.2K setting to no more than +5-6 dB, again depending on the mic's response. Results will vary, but that's a good place to start with a dynamic mic. I'm not sure if anyone has measured the K3's TX ESSB distortion products between 50-100 Hz (sourced through the front panel mic connector), but backing off on TX output power and running a slightly elevated V+ may be the neighborly thing to do. Paul, W9AC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:02:29 -0500, Paul Christensen wrote:
>Jim's settings look good for standard bandwidth SSB. For the K3's ESSB >mode, I would rein-in on the EQ extremes, and try a cut at 200Hz. The >50-100Hz bands can be flat or even boosted slightly, depending on the >response of the mic. At the high end, I would back off on the 3.2K setting >to no more than +5-6 dB, again depending on the mic's response. Results >will vary, but that's a good place to start with a dynamic mic. I agree with Paul that for ESSB, less equalization is appropriate. I would, however, still apply steep low cut at 50 Hz and 100 Hz to any pro mic, simply because there's no useful speech content in those bands, but most mics will produce popping and other breathe noise in that spectrum, and most shacks will have a lot of acoustic noise in that spectrum. All single-D mics (virtually all popular handheld vocal mics) suffer from proximity effect, so some low cut is also needed for the 200 Hz octave band with these mics. As to high frequency EQ -- this EQ compensates for the rolloff produced by the TX filter and the RX filter, so if you're transmitting through a wide filter, I would not use that EQ. That said, I consider ESSB to be quite wasteful of the limited spectrum available to hams. It's fine to use it when there's little activity on the bands, but those who are selfish enough to use it on a crowded band make me want to build and fire up an arc transmitter. 73, Jim Brown K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:36:46 +0000, Dave G4AON wrote:
>I am not sure why you >are trying to use a balanced mic with the K3. Perhaps because it's bought and paid for, and because it works quite well. That's why I do it! There's nothing wrong (or even unusual) with using a balanced mic with the K3 -- all you need to do is wire it properly! 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Giulio Pico - IW3HVB
Giulio,
Your problem is easy to fix. I also use a Shure SM 57 on my K3. It is a professional microphone, and is Low Impedance. You need to use an in-line impedance matching transformer. I use a Shure A95UF with an adaptor cable I made myself. They are inexpensive and work very well. Companies like Shure, Audio Technica, Radio Shack, Sescom, and many others make them. Here is an example: http://www.coutant.org/matching/5.html I'm sure you can find them in Italy. Cheers, Ken N6TZV Message: 14 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:15:40 +0100 From: Giulio Pico - IW3HVB <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Dynamic Mics on K3 To: [hidden email] Cc: [hidden email] Message-ID: <[hidden email]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Don Wilhelm ha scritto: > Giulio, > > You did not say what microphones you were trying to use, only that > they were 'dynamic'. > Currently I'm using a Shure SM57 dynamic mic. The others are brandless or unknown. 73 de Giulio IW3HVB ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Giulio Pico - IW3HVB
Giulio,
I had a brain fade.... I just realized, I only use the Shure A95 transformer when driving the High Impedance input of my Collins. But that is something to keep in mind. The K3 input should accept the SM57 directly with the proper cable wiring. You are correct: your problem is not the microphone. By the way, I get very good audio reports with mine. Jim K9YC's suggestion to roll off the low end at 50Hz and 100Hz is a good one. The SM57 has quite a bit of proximity effect and you should keep your distance to at least 3" or more. I use a fairly large windscreen on mine as well. Enjoy! Cheers, Ken N6TZV On Feb 11, 2009, at 4:18 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
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In reply to this post by Giulio Pico - IW3HVB
Audio reports? -- Join the Elecraft SSB Net if you can (for N.
America, Sundays 1800 UTC on 14.316). Somebody will record your signal (and others) on their DVR, and play it back to you. You'll have a good audience full of opinions. Windy KM5Q Santa Fe, NM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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