Elecraft Antennas in trees

[AD6XY]

What you need are a set of climbing poles, which needs the poles, 3 ropes and a weight. The climbing poles are very two long rods with a hook on the end of each able to slide along each other (but not tilt !). The poles extend via two ropes, one per pole attached to the base of that pole and to near the top of the other. Then you hook the first pole over a branch. Pull on a rope to extend the second pole and hook it over a higher branch. Continue branch by branch up the tree.  This contraption can carry a weight attached to a third rope with a release mechanism (a breakable tie for example). When over the branch you want, pull the rope from the correct side so the weight comes over the branch and back down to ground. The climbing contraption also needs to be tied to the rope so you can unhook it from the lower branch.

After this, curse the fact you forgot to tie the aerial to the rope and start again.

Hard work. It is easier to fire up a weight in a catapult. To stop leaving failed projectiles (e.g. tennis balls) in the tree, make the projectile out of ice, it will then melt.

[Dan Barker]

... and, HOWEVER you get the ropes over the tree, they will someday fall. If
the location is a "good one", you may want to use it again. Rather than
trying to hit that perfect branch again, I always include an extra rope, for
after the fall.

The "extra rope" is a continuous loop that reaches the ground and does not
bear any weight. It is used simply to pull a new rope/antenna up after the
current one falls. It looks like I have three ropes over the branch, but one
holds the antenna and the other two are just both sides of the "backup"
loop.

I usually do my antenna launching in the winter when foilage is less, but
the things come down whenever they please. With a loop over each "good"
branch, I can pull up new rope/wire even in the middle of summer.

Dan / WG4S / K2 #2456

<snip>
Subject: RE: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Antennas in trees
</snip>

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[Alan Bloom]

On Sun, 2008-07-27 at 04:14, David Woolley (E.L) wrote:
> Benny Aumala wrote:
> >
> > http://www.antennalaunchers.com/csv19/index.htm
>
> That URL seems to lead to a cybersquatter (the sort that gives you
> their search engine results).

It works if you delete the "/csv19/index.htm" part.

> It might, though, be worth noting that professional tree climbers use
> throw bags and slick line to get a messenger over a tree limb.  The
> throw bags are tough bags filled with around 12oz of ball bearings and
> the slick link is typically a 5mm rope made from slippery plastic.

I was absolutely amazed watching a guy from the local tree service use
one of those things.  He just grabbed the rope a couple feet from the
bag, swung it in a circle a couple times, and effortlessly lofted it
precisely over the desired branch about 50 feet in the air.

Al N1AL


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[AC7AC]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[Jon Kåre Hellan]

David Woolley (E.L) wrote:
> Benny Aumala wrote:
>>
>> http://www.antennalaunchers.com/csv19/index.htm
>
> That URL seems to lead to a cybersquatter (the sort that gives you
> their search engine results).

It's http://www.antennalaunchers.com/csv19/index.html - with an 'l' at
the end.

>
> It might, though, be worth noting that professional tree climbers use
> throw bags and slick line to get a messenger over a tree limb.  The
> throw bags are tough bags filled with around 12oz of ball bearings and
> the slick link is typically a 5mm rope made from slippery plastic.
>
>
>

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[Bill Johnson-9]

I have one of those bags and they work very nicely, once you get the hang of
the timing.  I have yet to get over 30-35' in a vertical toss with accuracy.
So far my best bet has been a 7.5' fishing rod with 60 lb test line and some
weights, around 3/4 oz.  If I miss and the weight comes down where I don't
want it, I detach the weight and wind the line back very slowly so as to not
entangle the line.  At 60 lb test, one doesn't want to create too much
whiplash and catch one in the head.  Oh, did I mention safety glasses!


72,

Bill

K9YEQ
K2 #35, K2 # 5279, KX1 #35, Mini Modules, etc.  

----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alan Bloom
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 1:29 PM
To: David Woolley (E.L)
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Antennas in trees

On Sun, 2008-07-27 at 04:14, David Woolley (E.L) wrote:
> Benny Aumala wrote:
> >
> > http://www.antennalaunchers.com/csv19/index.htm
>
> That URL seems to lead to a cybersquatter (the sort that gives you
> their search engine results).

It works if you delete the "/csv19/index.htm" part.

> It might, though, be worth noting that professional tree climbers use
> throw bags and slick line to get a messenger over a tree limb.  The
> throw bags are tough bags filled with around 12oz of ball bearings and
> the slick link is typically a 5mm rope made from slippery plastic.

I was absolutely amazed watching a guy from the local tree service use
one of those things.  He just grabbed the rope a couple feet from the
bag, swung it in a circle a couple times, and effortlessly lofted it
precisely over the desired branch about 50 feet in the air.

Al N1AL


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[Jim Brown-10]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:47:54 -0700, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

>The counterweights need to be heavy enough to hold the antenna, but not
>heavier than needed for that. When trees whip in the winds, the inertia
>of the counterweights can produce shock loads many, many times greater
>than the weights themselves for a brief moment until the weights begin
>to move. The heavier the counterweight, the greater its inertia and the
>shock load

Yes. I have a half dozen dipoles suspended in redwoods, a Douglas Fir, and a
Madrone at roughly 100 ft. I'm at 2,000 ft, about 5 miles from the Pacific,
about 250 ft below the top of the ridge on the ocean side. Without weights,
every antenna I installed was on the ground after the first real storm. Since
I've installed counterweights, all have weathered 75 MPH winds for a couple
of days.

These antennas are heavy -- typically 150-250 ft spans, #10 copper, most with
parallel #12 fan elements (to cover additional bands), and fed with RG8 or
RG11. My weights are roughly 90-95#, and are made by simply filling 6.5gal
water jugs with dry sand (roughly 1.5x heavier than water). Others have had
good success by recycling the counterweights from vintage wood frame windows.
I chose the tension by experimentally determining what it took to achieve the
acceptable degree of droop.

Counterweighting, of course, is only part of the story. When an antenna must
withstand these kinds of forces, every element of their construction becomes
critical. For this reason, I find nearly all of the commonly available center
insulators for dipoles to be seriously lacking. The absolute worst was the
RadioWavz unit. I bought two and used them to build 6M dipoles. Both fell
apart when I pulled on the LM240 that attached to them!  

73,

Jim K9YC


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[Brett Howard]

I've gotten my fair share of storms here too and rather than go the
route of counter weights since I had to kinda skirt the side of a big
cedar I opted for a rope method.

I ended up tying two ropes together at the center point of the dipole.
Then ran the rope up into the trees.  The rope bears all the force (and
it can take some HEAVY beating).  Then the antenna is simply hung from
the rope using crossed zipties around the spreaders (its a fanned
dipole).

This has lived through some pretty hair situations.  I did lose a few
feet of elevation one year but that was because the tree lost a limb and
I fell down to the next branch! hihi.

~Brett (KC7OTG)

On Sun, 2008-07-27 at 22:16 -0700, Jim Brown wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 11:47:54 -0700, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>
> >The counterweights need to be heavy enough to hold the antenna, but not
> >heavier than needed for that. When trees whip in the winds, the inertia
> >of the counterweights can produce shock loads many, many times greater
> >than the weights themselves for a brief moment until the weights begin
> >to move. The heavier the counterweight, the greater its inertia and the
> >shock load
>
> Yes. I have a half dozen dipoles suspended in redwoods, a Douglas Fir, and a
> Madrone at roughly 100 ft. I'm at 2,000 ft, about 5 miles from the Pacific,
> about 250 ft below the top of the ridge on the ocean side. Without weights,
> every antenna I installed was on the ground after the first real storm. Since
> I've installed counterweights, all have weathered 75 MPH winds for a couple
> of days.
>
> These antennas are heavy -- typically 150-250 ft spans, #10 copper, most with
> parallel #12 fan elements (to cover additional bands), and fed with RG8 or
> RG11. My weights are roughly 90-95#, and are made by simply filling 6.5gal
> water jugs with dry sand (roughly 1.5x heavier than water). Others have had
> good success by recycling the counterweights from vintage wood frame windows.
> I chose the tension by experimentally determining what it took to achieve the
> acceptable degree of droop.
>
> Counterweighting, of course, is only part of the story. When an antenna must
> withstand these kinds of forces, every element of their construction becomes
> critical. For this reason, I find nearly all of the commonly available center
> insulators for dipoles to be seriously lacking. The absolute worst was the
> RadioWavz unit. I bought two and used them to build 6M dipoles. Both fell
> apart when I pulled on the LM240 that attached to them!  
>
> 73,
>
> Jim K9YC
>
>
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[David Woolley (E.L)]

Jon Kåre Hellan wrote:

> It's http://www.antennalaunchers.com/csv19/index.html - with an 'l' at
> the end.
>

That's better.

Note that anyone thinking of using this in England might be advised to
consult with the local police as it might be interpreted as being an air
rifle, in which case the muzzle energy is more than three times the
limit above which a firearms certificate would be needed.  (The limit is
12 foot pounds, but the potential energy at the top of the arc is 150 *
0.25, i.e. 37.5 foot pounds, and tennis balls will have high enough drag
that the launch energy will be significantly higher.)

The situation in England seems to depend on the words lethal and weapon.

It appears that the rules in South Africa are simpler, and it looks like
it would definitely be classified as a firearm there.  The muzzle energy
limit is also lower.  The only air weapon exemptions appear to be for
calibres less than .22, and I haven't seen many .21 inch 4oz tennis
balls.  The definition doesn't depend on ability to cause harm or the
use of the word "weapon".

It looks like it would also be a firearm in Canada, with an even lower
muzzle energy limit.  The uncertainty there is whether or not it could
cause serious injury.  Batton rounds, with less than 4 times the muzzle
energy have killed people, e.g. recently during a firearms training
exercise in the UK.

--
David Woolley
"The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to
Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio"
List Guidelines <http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm>

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[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

This is Alan's site (as is the previous posting). I whole heartedly recommend the CSV-19. It is simple to use and effective, particularly if you have tall trees.

I've tried most of the other suggested methods, and while most will work to some degree or another, they usually take multiple tries and are height limited.

While this device is not cheap, if you do a lot of antenna work in your trees, this is a real time saver. Well worth the price...

It's also my most borrowed piece of equipment ;o)


http://www.antennalaunchers.com/antlaunching.html

73 & CU in NAQP CW this weekend!

"Jules"

Julius Fazekas
N2WN

Tennessee Contest Group
TnQP http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2/100 #3311
Elecraft K2/100 #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366
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[Ralph Tyrrell]

The ARRL Antenna Book suggests using a pulley and counter weight to allow for the varying distances between trees caused by wind. At my former QTH, Ellijay GA, I noticed that in very gusty conditions sometimes the support trees moved in opposite directions at the same time. I decided to make my counterweight out of an eight foot length of 5/16" chain. Put about a third of the length of the chain on the ground during no wind conditions. Now as the wind moves the trees more of less of the chain gets lifted off the ground. This gives a gradual increment in the weight of the counterweight. The antenna that I had up was 88' of #18 insulatd wire up 40', center fed with 450 Ohm line.

With this antenna I got into ECN on 40 and 20 using the K1 just about every time I tried. (Kevin, wish I could find a place for this type of antenna where I now live.)

I was concerned about the sudden change of weight caused by a solid one piece weight hitting the ground or lifted off the ground. With one third of the chain on the ground the weight does not swing in the breeze.

73, Ty, W1TF, K1 #1423,  K3 #696





     
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[Brian -2]

My G5RV is up in the oak trees here and is attached using springs at each
end.  They are about 12 inches long and 1 inch in diameter.  Been up for a
couple of years with no problems.  

Brian
N1WNC


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[N4LQ-2]

I use a reel with 6 lb line and a wrist rocket  from Walmart with a lead
fishing weight. Lay the reel on the ground and shoot the weight over the top
of the tree. I try to avoid large limbs. You want the line over the soft
bushy limbs. They act as a spring or shock absorber. Use the line to pull up
some nylon twine then use the twine to pull up your rope. The wind can blow
all it wants and those soft limbs act like a nice cushion. I've even been
know to run insulated antenna wire right through a tree with no ill effects
on the HF bands.
Steve Ellington
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Tyrrell" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 1:37 PM
Subject: RE: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Antennas in trees

> The ARRL Antenna Book suggests using a pulley and counter weight to allow
> for the varying distances between trees caused by wind. At my former QTH,
> Ellijay GA, I noticed that in very gusty conditions sometimes the support
> trees moved in opposite directions at the same time. I decided to make my
> counterweight out of an eight foot length of 5/16" chain. Put about a
> third of the length of the chain on the ground during no wind conditions.
> Now as the wind moves the trees more of less of the chain gets lifted off
> the ground. This gives a gradual increment in the weight of the
> counterweight. The antenna that I had up was 88' of #18 insulatd wire up
> 40', center fed with 450 Ohm line.
>
> With this antenna I got into ECN on 40 and 20 using the K1 just about
> every time I tried. (Kevin, wish I could find a place for this type of
> antenna where I now live.)
>
> I was concerned about the sudden change of weight caused by a solid one
> piece weight hitting the ground or lifted off the ground. With one third
> of the chain on the ground the weight does not swing in the breeze.
>
> 73, Ty, W1TF, K1 #1423,  K3 #696
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ]

With close to 40 posts in the last couple of days on these topics, we've
saturated this area. Let's let it rest for now. :-)

73, Eric  WA6HHQ
Elecraft List Moderator


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[Paul Gates, KD3JF]

I had those 12 inch springs once at a location where I live. Most of the time I just put up a 130 ft dipole and feed it with ladder line and let the good times roll!! <G>


--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Brian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Brian <[hidden email]>
> Subject: RE: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Antennas in trees
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 1:41 PM
> My G5RV is up in the oak trees here and is attached using
> springs at each
> end.  They are about 12 inches long and 1 inch in diameter.
>  Been up for a
> couple of years with no problems.  
>
> Brian
> N1WNC
>
>
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