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Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

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TKNorris

Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

I don't want to re-invent the wheel so I'm asking what method and
attachment point, to each piece of equipment, you experienced K-Line owners
use to bond the K3s, P3, SP3, etc. and then on to the station ground. I
have
Thank you, Tom NB5Q
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Jim Brown-10

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

On 4/20/2020 6:08 PM, Tom Norris NB5Q wrote:
> I'm asking what method and
> attachment point, to each piece of equipment, you experienced K-Line owners
> use to bond the K3s, P3, SP3, etc. and then on to the station ground.

I use wires soldered to screw lugs, making sure that the attachment
point is not insulated from the chassis by paint. Some of the equipment
has a dedicated grounding screw. Shells of DB connectors SHOULD be
bonded to the equipment chassis, but not always -- some mfrs screw up
and fail to do that.

Some of my equipment goes out in the field from time to time, so I use
single circuit Power Pole connectors to make that easy. I'll use 2-6"
between the lug and the PowerPole, then make a loop soldered to a
PowerPoles that connect to each piece of gear in the string (so each
connector has two wires). There are lots of suitable variations on this,
depending on how the shack is laid out.

These are the slides for my talks on station power, grounding, and
bonding. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf

73, Jim K9YC
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Randy Farmer-2

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

I'm currently in the process of wiring up my new station and I happen to
be working on the equipment bonding phase for my pair of K3s SO2R
station. I'm doing my best to get decent connectivity between the
station components, but can't really figure out how to terminate large
(AWG 10) wire to the teeny 6-32 ground screws on the back of the K3,
especially since something like six bond wires need to be attached to
the transceivers. There appear to be no available ring terminals that
will fit these small screws; the smallest I can find are for #10 studs.
Even by using a threaded standoff installed in the K3 ground nut and a
longer screw to stand the rings off, stacking a bunch of these huge
terminals is extremely difficult. Providing some means of reasonably
quick disconnect for servicing purposes is equally difficult. Exactly
how can I go about connecting big wires to little ground posts?

73...
Randy, W8FN

On 4/20/2020 10:22 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 4/20/2020 6:08 PM, Tom Norris NB5Q wrote:
>> I'm asking what method and
>> attachment point, to each piece of equipment, you experienced K-Line
>> owners
>> use to bond the K3s, P3, SP3, etc. and then on to the station ground.
>
> I use wires soldered to screw lugs, making sure that the attachment
> point is not insulated from the chassis by paint. Some of the
> equipment has a dedicated grounding screw. Shells of DB connectors
> SHOULD be bonded to the equipment chassis, but not always -- some mfrs
> screw up and fail to do that.
>
> Some of my equipment goes out in the field from time to time, so I use
> single circuit Power Pole connectors to make that easy. I'll use 2-6"
> between the lug and the PowerPole, then make a loop soldered to a
> PowerPoles that connect to each piece of gear in the string (so each
> connector has two wires). There are lots of suitable variations on
> this, depending on how the shack is laid out.
>
> These are the slides for my talks on station power, grounding, and
> bonding. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

NK7Z

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

Hi Randy,

I rebuilt my shack six years ago, and documented a bit of that. One
part was connecting grounds to the back of the rigs. See:

https://www.nk7z.net/rebuilding-the-shack/

Look at a few of the photos. One shows a large copper ring terminal,
which will fit a K3, etc., and how it was connected to 3/4 inch braid.

Basically I folded the braid, inserted it and some solder cut to length
into the ring terminal solder bucket. I then held it in place with a
set of pliers, and hit the ring terminal with a Burns-O-Matic torch.
You can see the jig I had set up on the top of the glass jar.

Yes... I know grounds are not supposed to be soldered...

I am sure there are better ways... This is just what I did.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 4/23/20 5:37 AM, Randy Farmer wrote:

> I'm currently in the process of wiring up my new station and I happen to
> be working on the equipment bonding phase for my pair of K3s SO2R
> station. I'm doing my best to get decent connectivity between the
> station components, but can't really figure out how to terminate large
> (AWG 10) wire to the teeny 6-32 ground screws on the back of the K3,
> especially since something like six bond wires need to be attached to
> the transceivers. There appear to be no available ring terminals that
> will fit these small screws; the smallest I can find are for #10 studs.
> Even by using a threaded standoff installed in the K3 ground nut and a
> longer screw to stand the rings off, stacking a bunch of these huge
> terminals is extremely difficult. Providing some means of reasonably
> quick disconnect for servicing purposes is equally difficult. Exactly
> how can I go about connecting big wires to little ground posts?
>
> 73...
> Randy, W8FN
>
> On 4/20/2020 10:22 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 4/20/2020 6:08 PM, Tom Norris NB5Q wrote:
>>> I'm asking what method and
>>> attachment point, to each piece of equipment, you experienced K-Line
>>> owners
>>> use to bond the K3s, P3, SP3, etc. and then on to the station ground.
>>
>> I use wires soldered to screw lugs, making sure that the attachment
>> point is not insulated from the chassis by paint. Some of the
>> equipment has a dedicated grounding screw. Shells of DB connectors
>> SHOULD be bonded to the equipment chassis, but not always -- some mfrs
>> screw up and fail to do that.
>>
>> Some of my equipment goes out in the field from time to time, so I use
>> single circuit Power Pole connectors to make that easy. I'll use 2-6"
>> between the lug and the PowerPole, then make a loop soldered to a
>> PowerPoles that connect to each piece of gear in the string (so each
>> connector has two wires). There are lots of suitable variations on
>> this, depending on how the shack is laid out.
>>
>> These are the slides for my talks on station power, grounding, and
>> bonding. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Randy Farmer-2

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

Thanks for the info, Dave. Your approach works fine IF you're using the
ground bar ground technique. I'm attempting to follow Jim's advice (see
slides 91 through 113 in his Grounding and Audio presentation referenced
below). For this, you need bond wires between the individual boxes in
the station. BTW, I have found that 1/2" braid can be rolled up and
crimped in 45A Power Pole connectors.

73...
Randy, W8FN

On 4/23/2020 8:53 AM, Dave Cole wrote:

> Hi Randy,
>
> I rebuilt my shack six years ago, and documented a bit of that. One
> part was connecting grounds to the back of the rigs. See:
>
> https://www.nk7z.net/rebuilding-the-shack/
>
> Look at a few of the photos. One shows a large copper ring terminal,
> which will fit a K3, etc., and how it was connected to 3/4 inch braid.
>
> Basically I folded the braid, inserted it and some solder cut to
> length into the ring terminal solder bucket. I then held it in place
> with a set of pliers, and hit the ring terminal with a Burns-O-Matic
> torch. You can see the jig I had set up on the top of the glass jar.
>
> Yes... I know grounds are not supposed to be soldered...
>
> I am sure there are better ways... This is just what I did.
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 4/23/20 5:37 AM, Randy Farmer wrote:
>> I'm currently in the process of wiring up my new station and I happen
>> to be working on the equipment bonding phase for my pair of K3s SO2R
>> station. I'm doing my best to get decent connectivity between the
>> station components, but can't really figure out how to terminate
>> large (AWG 10) wire to the teeny 6-32 ground screws on the back of
>> the K3, especially since something like six bond wires need to be
>> attached to the transceivers. There appear to be no available ring
>> terminals that will fit these small screws; the smallest I can find
>> are for #10 studs. Even by using a threaded standoff installed in the
>> K3 ground nut and a longer screw to stand the rings off, stacking a
>> bunch of these huge terminals is extremely difficult. Providing some
>> means of reasonably quick disconnect for servicing purposes is
>> equally difficult. Exactly how can I go about connecting big wires to
>> little ground posts?
>>
>> 73...
>> Randy, W8FN
>>
>> On 4/20/2020 10:22 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On 4/20/2020 6:08 PM, Tom Norris NB5Q wrote:
>>>> I'm asking what method and
>>>> attachment point, to each piece of equipment, you experienced
>>>> K-Line owners
>>>> use to bond the K3s, P3, SP3, etc. and then on to the station ground.
>>>
>>> I use wires soldered to screw lugs, making sure that the attachment
>>> point is not insulated from the chassis by paint. Some of the
>>> equipment has a dedicated grounding screw. Shells of DB connectors
>>> SHOULD be bonded to the equipment chassis, but not always -- some
>>> mfrs screw up and fail to do that.
>>>
>>> Some of my equipment goes out in the field from time to time, so I
>>> use single circuit Power Pole connectors to make that easy. I'll use
>>> 2-6" between the lug and the PowerPole, then make a loop soldered to
>>> a PowerPoles that connect to each piece of gear in the string (so
>>> each connector has two wires). There are lots of suitable variations
>>> on this, depending on how the shack is laid out.
>>>
>>> These are the slides for my talks on station power, grounding, and
>>> bonding. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

NK7Z

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the info! Upon reflection, I will be following Jim's slide 105.

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 4/23/20 6:11 AM, Randy Farmer wrote:

> Thanks for the info, Dave. Your approach works fine IF you're using the
> ground bar ground technique. I'm attempting to follow Jim's advice (see
> slides 91 through 113 in his Grounding and Audio presentation referenced
> below). For this, you need bond wires between the individual boxes in
> the station. BTW, I have found that 1/2" braid can be rolled up and
> crimped in 45A Power Pole connectors.
>
> 73...
> Randy, W8FN
>
> On 4/23/2020 8:53 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
>> Hi Randy,
>>
>> I rebuilt my shack six years ago, and documented a bit of that. One
>> part was connecting grounds to the back of the rigs. See:
>>
>> https://www.nk7z.net/rebuilding-the-shack/
>>
>> Look at a few of the photos. One shows a large copper ring terminal,
>> which will fit a K3, etc., and how it was connected to 3/4 inch braid.
>>
>> Basically I folded the braid, inserted it and some solder cut to
>> length into the ring terminal solder bucket. I then held it in place
>> with a set of pliers, and hit the ring terminal with a Burns-O-Matic
>> torch. You can see the jig I had set up on the top of the glass jar.
>>
>> Yes... I know grounds are not supposed to be soldered...
>>
>> I am sure there are better ways... This is just what I did.
>>
>> 73, and thanks,
>> Dave (NK7Z)
>> https://www.nk7z.net
>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
>> ARRL Technical Specialist
>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>>
>> On 4/23/20 5:37 AM, Randy Farmer wrote:
>>> I'm currently in the process of wiring up my new station and I happen
>>> to be working on the equipment bonding phase for my pair of K3s SO2R
>>> station. I'm doing my best to get decent connectivity between the
>>> station components, but can't really figure out how to terminate
>>> large (AWG 10) wire to the teeny 6-32 ground screws on the back of
>>> the K3, especially since something like six bond wires need to be
>>> attached to the transceivers. There appear to be no available ring
>>> terminals that will fit these small screws; the smallest I can find
>>> are for #10 studs. Even by using a threaded standoff installed in the
>>> K3 ground nut and a longer screw to stand the rings off, stacking a
>>> bunch of these huge terminals is extremely difficult. Providing some
>>> means of reasonably quick disconnect for servicing purposes is
>>> equally difficult. Exactly how can I go about connecting big wires to
>>> little ground posts?
>>>
>>> 73...
>>> Randy, W8FN
>>>
>>> On 4/20/2020 10:22 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>> On 4/20/2020 6:08 PM, Tom Norris NB5Q wrote:
>>>>> I'm asking what method and
>>>>> attachment point, to each piece of equipment, you experienced
>>>>> K-Line owners
>>>>> use to bond the K3s, P3, SP3, etc. and then on to the station ground.
>>>>
>>>> I use wires soldered to screw lugs, making sure that the attachment
>>>> point is not insulated from the chassis by paint. Some of the
>>>> equipment has a dedicated grounding screw. Shells of DB connectors
>>>> SHOULD be bonded to the equipment chassis, but not always -- some
>>>> mfrs screw up and fail to do that.
>>>>
>>>> Some of my equipment goes out in the field from time to time, so I
>>>> use single circuit Power Pole connectors to make that easy. I'll use
>>>> 2-6" between the lug and the PowerPole, then make a loop soldered to
>>>> a PowerPoles that connect to each piece of gear in the string (so
>>>> each connector has two wires). There are lots of suitable variations
>>>> on this, depending on how the shack is laid out.
>>>>
>>>> These are the slides for my talks on station power, grounding, and
>>>> bonding. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
>>>>
>>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Vic Rosenthal

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

In reply to this post by Randy Farmer-2

I use thin, flat, copper strips. I use a paper punch to make neat holes
in them. You can stack a whole bunch of them on a terminal. They are a
little fragile, but you don't have to mess with them often.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 23/04/2020 15:37, Randy Farmer wrote:

NK7Z

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding, question for K9YC.

Jim,

In looking at your slides, slide 105, (thanks for sharing the
presentation BTW), it strikes me that the coax cable braid running
between radio/amp/tuner/antenna panel, would act as a bonding
connection, so I would not need to add a large wire between those items.
Is this correct? If not, why not?

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 4/23/20 7:13 AM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP wrote:

> I use thin, flat, copper strips. I use a paper punch to make neat holes
> in them. You can stack a whole bunch of them on a terminal. They are a
> little fragile, but you don't have to mess with them often.
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
> Rehovot, Israel
> Formerly K2VCO
> CWops no. 5
> http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
> On 23/04/2020 15:37, Randy Farmer wrote:
>> I'm currently in the process of wiring up my new station and I happen
>> to be working on the equipment bonding phase for my pair of K3s SO2R
>> station. I'm doing my best to get decent connectivity between the
>> station components, but can't really figure out how to terminate large
>> (AWG 10) wire to the teeny 6-32 ground screws on the back of the K3,
>> especially since something like six bond wires need to be attached to
>> the transceivers. There appear to be no available ring terminals that
>> will fit these small screws; the smallest I can find are for #10
>> studs. Even by using a threaded standoff installed in the K3 ground
>> nut and a longer screw to stand the rings off, stacking a bunch of
>> these huge terminals is extremely difficult. Providing some means of
>> reasonably quick disconnect for servicing purposes is equally
>> difficult. Exactly how can I go about connecting big wires to little
>> ground posts?
>>
>> 73...
>> Randy, W8FN
>>
>> On 4/20/2020 10:22 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On 4/20/2020 6:08 PM, Tom Norris NB5Q wrote:
>>>> I'm asking what method and
>>>> attachment point, to each piece of equipment, you experienced K-Line
>>>> owners
>>>> use to bond the K3s, P3, SP3, etc. and then on to the station ground.
>>>
>>> I use wires soldered to screw lugs, making sure that the attachment
>>> point is not insulated from the chassis by paint. Some of the
>>> equipment has a dedicated grounding screw. Shells of DB connectors
>>> SHOULD be bonded to the equipment chassis, but not always -- some
>>> mfrs screw up and fail to do that.
>>>
>>> Some of my equipment goes out in the field from time to time, so I
>>> use single circuit Power Pole connectors to make that easy. I'll use
>>> 2-6" between the lug and the PowerPole, then make a loop soldered to
>>> a PowerPoles that connect to each piece of gear in the string (so
>>> each connector has two wires). There are lots of suitable variations
>>> on this, depending on how the shack is laid out.
>>>
>>> These are the slides for my talks on station power, grounding, and
>>> bonding. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

N4ZR

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

In reply to this post by Randy Farmer-2

I think the answer lies in the ground bus. I used a 3/4" copper water
pipe along the back edge of my desk, with a short pigtail of #2 wire to
the K3. I used a yellow-jacketed Home Depot ring terminal on both ends
of the #2, and metal-tapping screws to connect to the bus.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/23/2020 8:37 AM, Randy Farmer wrote:

> I'm currently in the process of wiring up my new station and I happen
> to be working on the equipment bonding phase for my pair of K3s SO2R
> station. I'm doing my best to get decent connectivity between the
> station components, but can't really figure out how to terminate large
> (AWG 10) wire to the teeny 6-32 ground screws on the back of the K3,
> especially since something like six bond wires need to be attached to
> the transceivers. There appear to be no available ring terminals that
> will fit these small screws; the smallest I can find are for #10
> studs. Even by using a threaded standoff installed in the K3 ground
> nut and a longer screw to stand the rings off, stacking a bunch of
> these huge terminals is extremely difficult. Providing some means of
> reasonably quick disconnect for servicing purposes is equally
> difficult. Exactly how can I go about connecting big wires to little
> ground posts?
>
> 73...
> Randy, W8FN
>
> On 4/20/2020 10:22 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On 4/20/2020 6:08 PM, Tom Norris NB5Q wrote:
>>> I'm asking what method and
>>> attachment point, to each piece of equipment, you experienced K-Line
>>> owners
>>> use to bond the K3s, P3, SP3, etc. and then on to the station ground.
>>
>> I use wires soldered to screw lugs, making sure that the attachment
>> point is not insulated from the chassis by paint. Some of the
>> equipment has a dedicated grounding screw. Shells of DB connectors
>> SHOULD be bonded to the equipment chassis, but not always -- some
>> mfrs screw up and fail to do that.
>>
>> Some of my equipment goes out in the field from time to time, so I
>> use single circuit Power Pole connectors to make that easy. I'll use
>> 2-6" between the lug and the PowerPole, then make a loop soldered to
>> a PowerPoles that connect to each piece of gear in the string (so
>> each connector has two wires). There are lots of suitable variations
>> on this, depending on how the shack is laid out.
>>
>> These are the slides for my talks on station power, grounding, and
>> bonding. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Buck

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

In reply to this post by Randy Farmer-2

Poke a hole in the braid and sandwich it between two large washers. Or
drill a hole in strap and sandwich that. You can then put multiple
holes in the strap to connect other wires.

I wish Elecraft had larger ground lugs.

k4ia, Buck
K3s# 11497
Honor Roll 8B DXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 4/23/2020 9:11 AM, Randy Farmer wrote:

donovanf

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

In reply to this post by N4ZR

Hey Pete, 2 AWG wire is 1/4 in diameter...

Are you sure?

Maybe your using super flexible welding wire... Maybe not...

73
Frank
W3LPL

----- Original Message -----

From: "N4ZR" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 2:27:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

I think the answer lies in the ground bus. I used a 3/4" copper water
pipe along the back edge of my desk, with a short pigtail of #2 wire to
the K3. I used a yellow-jacketed Home Depot ring terminal on both ends
of the #2, and metal-tapping screws to connect to the bus.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/23/2020 8:37 AM, Randy Farmer wrote:

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

In reply to this post by Randy Farmer-2

On 4/23/2020 6:11 AM, Randy Farmer wrote:
> I'm attempting to follow Jim's advice (see slides 91 through 113 in his
> Grounding and Audio presentation referenced below).

Hi Randy,

In my station, I use crimp lugs that fit under chassis screws. Stranded
wire works fine. When bonding in a string between interconnected gear,
strands can be removed to fit in the crimps. I use single connectors to
a short length of wire at each chassis, then do the looped
interconnection with the mating PowerPole. Inside the shack, I mostly
use #12 stranded for bonding. Clipping a few strands from each, it's
possible to fit two #12 wires in the largest (#10) PowerPole insert.

I've made up many hundreds of Power Pole cables of all sizes large and
small, but I don't own a crimper for them. I crimp with needle-nose
pliers and solder. There's a learning curve to making the insert fit. :)

I use PowerPoles in this application for two reasons. First, access to
the rear of gear on my operating desk is difficult, because it's a shelf
attached to the wall that supports it, and there are shelves both above
and below that also hold gear. The shelves are held away from the wall a
few inches so that cables can pass between them.

Second, some of my gear goes out into the field for FD, and for county
and grid expeditions. The PowerPoles make that easier.

73, Jim K9YC

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding, question for K9YC.

In reply to this post by NK7Z

On 4/23/2020 7:23 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> In looking at your slides, slide 105, (thanks for sharing the
> presentation BTW), it strikes me that the coax cable braid running
> between radio/amp/tuner/antenna panel, would act as a bonding
> connection, so I would not need to add a large wire between those items.
> Is this correct? If not, why not?

The difference shows up at audio frequencies and for lightning. Coax
between gear is usually longer than needed for bonding -- that is,
dedicated bonding conductors can be shorter, thus lower inductance and
resistance. See the slides that address audio buzz from power line
leakage currents. At AF (and for lightning), bonding is a band-aid for
Pin One Problems that is present in virtually all ham gear, computer
gear, and audio gear.

73, Jim K9YC

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

In reply to this post by N4ZR

On 4/23/2020 7:27 AM, N4ZR wrote:
> I used a 3/4" copper water pipe along the back edge of my desk, with a
> short pigtail of #2 wire to the K3.

#2 ????? That's FAR larger than needed for bonding inside the shack.
Also, remember that lightning is an RF event, not a DC event, so
inductance dominates the bonding impedance. #10-#12 stranded is plenty
good enough for bonding between your gear and that bonding bus.

73, Jim K9YC
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NK7Z

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding, question for K9YC.

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

That explains it perfectly Jim, thanks!!!

73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 4/23/20 10:47 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

> On 4/23/2020 7:23 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
>> In looking at your slides, slide 105, (thanks for sharing the
>> presentation BTW), it strikes me that the coax cable braid running
>> between radio/amp/tuner/antenna panel, would act as a bonding
>> connection, so I would not need to add a large wire between those
>> items. Is this correct? If not, why not?
>
> The difference shows up at audio frequencies and for lightning. Coax
> between gear is usually longer than needed for bonding -- that is,
> dedicated bonding conductors can be shorter, thus lower inductance and
> resistance. See the slides that address audio buzz from power line
> leakage currents. At AF (and for lightning), bonding is a band-aid for
> Pin One Problems that is present in virtually all ham gear, computer
> gear, and audio gear.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Randy Lake

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

In reply to this post by Randy Farmer-2

Ok. I am sure I will get the wrath of God for going in this direction but
here we go. I was licensed in 91 and have put together 2 average so contest
stations with no grounds. None what so ever except power grounds. I have a
bunch of equipment, not intentionally interconnected, that has had no issue
in all that time. If I had seen something that led me to fix an issue I
certainly would have. Safety ? Maybe. I am just not sure that the thousands
of dollars that could be put into this type of grounding is necessary, in
my part of the world.
So, no grounds on lugs of any equipment, no grounds on tower (100') no
grounding of coax. Aside lightning strikes, which I have had and not issue,
what can I gain from spending the $$$ ?
If someone can convince me I will consider.

Randy N1KWF

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:38 AM Randy Farmer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm currently in the process of wiring up my new station and I happen to
> be working on the equipment bonding phase for my pair of K3s SO2R
> station. I'm doing my best to get decent connectivity between the
> station components, but can't really figure out how to terminate large
> (AWG 10) wire to the teeny 6-32 ground screws on the back of the K3,
> especially since something like six bond wires need to be attached to
> the transceivers. There appear to be no available ring terminals that
> will fit these small screws; the smallest I can find are for #10 studs.
> Even by using a threaded standoff installed in the K3 ground nut and a
> longer screw to stand the rings off, stacking a bunch of these huge
> terminals is extremely difficult. Providing some means of reasonably
> quick disconnect for servicing purposes is equally difficult. Exactly
> how can I go about connecting big wires to little ground posts?
>
> 73...
> Randy, W8FN
>
> On 4/20/2020 10:22 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> > On 4/20/2020 6:08 PM, Tom Norris NB5Q wrote:
> >> I'm asking what method and
> >> attachment point, to each piece of equipment, you experienced K-Line
> >> owners
> >> use to bond the K3s, P3, SP3, etc. and then on to the station ground.
> >
> > I use wires soldered to screw lugs, making sure that the attachment
> > point is not insulated from the chassis by paint. Some of the
> > equipment has a dedicated grounding screw. Shells of DB connectors
> > SHOULD be bonded to the equipment chassis, but not always -- some mfrs
> > screw up and fail to do that.
> >
> > Some of my equipment goes out in the field from time to time, so I use
> > single circuit Power Pole connectors to make that easy. I'll use 2-6"
> > between the lug and the PowerPole, then make a loop soldered to a
> > PowerPoles that connect to each piece of gear in the string (so each
> > connector has two wires). There are lots of suitable variations on
> > this, depending on how the shack is laid out.
> >
> > These are the slides for my talks on station power, grounding, and
> > bonding. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

--
Randy Lake N1KWF
73 Gunn Rd.
Keene,NH
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Randy Lake

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

In reply to this post by NK7Z

Oh yes, I have a K3/P3

Randy N1KWF

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:53 AM Dave Cole <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Randy,
>
> I rebuilt my shack six years ago, and documented a bit of that. One
> part was connecting grounds to the back of the rigs. See:
>
> https://www.nk7z.net/rebuilding-the-shack/
>
> Look at a few of the photos. One shows a large copper ring terminal,
> which will fit a K3, etc., and how it was connected to 3/4 inch braid.
>
> Basically I folded the braid, inserted it and some solder cut to length
> into the ring terminal solder bucket. I then held it in place with a
> set of pliers, and hit the ring terminal with a Burns-O-Matic torch.
> You can see the jig I had set up on the top of the glass jar.
>
> Yes... I know grounds are not supposed to be soldered...
>
> I am sure there are better ways... This is just what I did.
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 4/23/20 5:37 AM, Randy Farmer wrote:
> > I'm currently in the process of wiring up my new station and I happen to
> > be working on the equipment bonding phase for my pair of K3s SO2R
> > station. I'm doing my best to get decent connectivity between the
> > station components, but can't really figure out how to terminate large
> > (AWG 10) wire to the teeny 6-32 ground screws on the back of the K3,
> > especially since something like six bond wires need to be attached to
> > the transceivers. There appear to be no available ring terminals that
> > will fit these small screws; the smallest I can find are for #10 studs.
> > Even by using a threaded standoff installed in the K3 ground nut and a
> > longer screw to stand the rings off, stacking a bunch of these huge
> > terminals is extremely difficult. Providing some means of reasonably
> > quick disconnect for servicing purposes is equally difficult. Exactly
> > how can I go about connecting big wires to little ground posts?
> >
> > 73...
> > Randy, W8FN
> >
> > On 4/20/2020 10:22 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >> On 4/20/2020 6:08 PM, Tom Norris NB5Q wrote:
> >>> I'm asking what method and
> >>> attachment point, to each piece of equipment, you experienced K-Line
> >>> owners
> >>> use to bond the K3s, P3, SP3, etc. and then on to the station ground.
> >>
> >> I use wires soldered to screw lugs, making sure that the attachment
> >> point is not insulated from the chassis by paint. Some of the
> >> equipment has a dedicated grounding screw. Shells of DB connectors
> >> SHOULD be bonded to the equipment chassis, but not always -- some mfrs
> >> screw up and fail to do that.
> >>
> >> Some of my equipment goes out in the field from time to time, so I use
> >> single circuit Power Pole connectors to make that easy. I'll use 2-6"
> >> between the lug and the PowerPole, then make a loop soldered to a
> >> PowerPoles that connect to each piece of gear in the string (so each
> >> connector has two wires). There are lots of suitable variations on
> >> this, depending on how the shack is laid out.
> >>
> >> These are the slides for my talks on station power, grounding, and
> >> bonding. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
> >>
> >> 73, Jim K9YC
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
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> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
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> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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>

Bill Frantz

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

In reply to this post by N4ZR

I changed the ring terminals on my grounding system to spade
lugs for ease of removal.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 4/23/20 at 10:27 AM, [hidden email] (N4ZR) wrote:

>I think the answer lies in the ground bus. I used a 3/4"
>copper water pipe along the back edge of my desk, with a short
>pigtail of #2 wire to the K3. I used a yellow-jacketed Home
>Depot ring terminal on both ends of the #2, and metal-tapping
>screws to connect to the bus.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900 | around us, is there any choice | 150
Rivermead Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall |
Peterborough, NH 03458

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Vic Rosenthal

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

In reply to this post by Randy Lake

The problems of hum and RF pickup are reduced by simply connecting all the equipment chassis together with low inductance conductors. It’s a safety feature as well, providing a backup to the power cables’ ground conductor, and ensuring that disconnecting a coax jumper won’t suddenly put you in the path of an unexpected current. That doesn’t cost thousands and is at most a few hours of work.

Serious lightning protection is something else, and can be very expensive. But although bonding the equipment won’t protect you against direct lightning strikes, it does help to keep everything at the same potential and reduce the possibility of damage from less violent static discharges.

Victor 4X6GP

> On 24 Apr 2020, at 3:19, Randy Lake <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ok. I am sure I will get the wrath of God for going in this direction but
> here we go. I was licensed in 91 and have put together 2 average so contest
> stations with no grounds. None what so ever except power grounds. I have a
> bunch of equipment, not intentionally interconnected, that has had no issue
> in all that time. If I had seen something that led me to fix an issue I
> certainly would have. Safety ? Maybe. I am just not sure that the thousands
> of dollars that could be put into this type of grounding is necessary, in
> my part of the world.
> So, no grounds on lugs of any equipment, no grounds on tower (100') no
> grounding of coax. Aside lightning strikes, which I have had and not issue,
> what can I gain from spending the $$$ ?
> If someone can convince me I will consider.
>
> Randy N1KWF
>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:38 AM Randy Farmer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'm currently in the process of wiring up my new station and I happen to
>> be working on the equipment bonding phase for my pair of K3s SO2R
>> station. I'm doing my best to get decent connectivity between the
>> station components, but can't really figure out how to terminate large
>> (AWG 10) wire to the teeny 6-32 ground screws on the back of the K3,
>> especially since something like six bond wires need to be attached to
>> the transceivers. There appear to be no available ring terminals that
>> will fit these small screws; the smallest I can find are for #10 studs.
>> Even by using a threaded standoff installed in the K3 ground nut and a
>> longer screw to stand the rings off, stacking a bunch of these huge
>> terminals is extremely difficult. Providing some means of reasonably
>> quick disconnect for servicing purposes is equally difficult. Exactly
>> how can I go about connecting big wires to little ground posts?
>>
>> 73...
>> Randy, W8FN
>>
>>> On 4/20/2020 10:22 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On 4/20/2020 6:08 PM, Tom Norris NB5Q wrote:
>>>> I'm asking what method and
>>>> attachment point, to each piece of equipment, you experienced K-Line
>>>> owners
>>>> use to bond the K3s, P3, SP3, etc. and then on to the station ground.
>>>
>>> I use wires soldered to screw lugs, making sure that the attachment
>>> point is not insulated from the chassis by paint. Some of the
>>> equipment has a dedicated grounding screw. Shells of DB connectors
>>> SHOULD be bonded to the equipment chassis, but not always -- some mfrs
>>> screw up and fail to do that.
>>>
>>> Some of my equipment goes out in the field from time to time, so I use
>>> single circuit Power Pole connectors to make that easy. I'll use 2-6"
>>> between the lug and the PowerPole, then make a loop soldered to a
>>> PowerPoles that connect to each piece of gear in the string (so each
>>> connector has two wires). There are lots of suitable variations on
>>> this, depending on how the shack is laid out.
>>>
>>> These are the slides for my talks on station power, grounding, and
>>> bonding. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
> --
> Randy Lake N1KWF
> 73 Gunn Rd.
> Keene,NH
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Rick Bates, NK7I

Re: Elecraft K3s, etc. bonding

And in the meantime, lightning protection helps to reduce the noise and
risks of 'everyday' static noise sources like wind, snow, blowing dust
and even rain static. HELPS, not removes.

Having (last fall) just installed a basic dissipation system, the
difference can be quite startling and can allow one to hear a LOT
better. My noise floor also dropped from 10-35 dB with an average of 20
dB the moment I tied it into the existing house safety grounds. And
that was not only increased safety but was cheaper than most low band
reception arrays (which I'll add as well). 'New' DX; SCORE!

Just as any other station feature, one can continue to enhance or
upgrade lightning protection and bonding over time until there is less
return than cost expended.

One more often forgotten note: ALL wiring coming into a building, must
be bonded to the common safety ground; satellite dishes, telephone/DSL
wires, cable TV... ALL of them or lightning will 'find a way' to ruin
your day.

Rick NK7I

On 4/23/2020 10:44 PM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:
> Serious lightning protection is something else, and can be very expensive. But although bonding the equipment won’t protect you against direct lightning strikes, it does help to keep everything at the same potential and reduce the possibility of damage from less violent static discharges.
>
> Victor 4X6GP
>
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