Elecraft K4 and Accessibility

[Elecraft mailing list]

Is it possible to get the audio CW feedback on the K4, or even the K3/K3S?

--David


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2019 11:26 AM
To: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 and Accessibility

Hi Wayne,

Thanks as always for your direct response. I appreciate your forthrightness on this issue and willingness to tackle the more difficult questions/aspects/design decision justifications.

Elecraft has, as I stated in my original email, always been supportive of the blind ham community inasmuch as design limitations and parameters allow, and I for one appreciate your continuing commitment to that. Computer control couldn’t be simpler on the Elecraft rigs I own. The Hampod is also a fantastic accessory, and we appreciate your working with the developers of these aids.

I suspect that, were I able to get a higher end rig, I’d be opting for a K3 for the exact reasons you specify. But I’m a knob and button kind of guy. I think, were I interested in going whole hog for a K4, that your option (1) seems to be the most straightforward path, certainly in the short term, to get the mostbang for our accessibility buck, as it were. There’s lots of flexibility there.

I’m not sure what the state of the art is for touch screen accessibility under GNU/Linux. I know there is a GNOME-based screen reader, as well as an Android-based screen reader. Given the right clever people, it might be possible to have an alternative UI, but, as you say, that would be a pretty significant support issue for a pretty small market of users. But one could potentially duplicate those controls on, say, an Amazon Fire or Android tablet app. I think there really are possibilities for the right clever people…shame I’m not one such.

Again, I appreciate that Elecraft at least considers these issues, which is more than I can say for many, many other companies.

Vy 73,


Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: [hidden email]
Mobile: [phone]

> On May 24, 2019, at 2:02 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Buddy et al,
>
> We've definitely been thinking about this.
>
> There's a paradigm shift going on in transceiver design, and we reached a point where we needed to embrace it. This shift is not entirely aligned with accessibility, as you know. I'll address alternatives in this email.
>
> As for the K4 specifically, its user interface is dependent in part on use of the touch screen. This was simply the only way to integrate an equivalent of the K3S, P3, and all of the new hardware/software required to implement a direct-sampling radio. The use of a touch screen allows context sensitivity (physical overloading) for controls, making the K4 the equivalent of a much larger radio without touch. The resulting compact size is still compatible with portable use (4.5" x 13.5" x 11", 10 pounds, and power-efficient), a hallmark of Elecraft transceivers.
>
> Regarding accessibility, there are three possible approaches:
>
> 1. The K4's entire complement of controls, both hard and touch, will be represented by a set of "2-letter" commands. This API will be fully public as it is for our other transceivers. Presumably external devices or computers will be able to immediately make use of these commands to effect a flexible accessible interface.
>
> 2. In theory we could implement a large-target version of the LCD's touch controls, with proximity-based audio feedback and no panadapter. This would be a very ambitious project requiring ongoing support, similar to that needed for mobile/fixed app development. We don't have the staff to support this, so we'd need to engage the wider community to find a developer with suitable skills and motivation. The API or spec for such an effort doesn't exist at this time.
>
> 3. The K3S has very similar strong-signal performance and similar basic features, without touch. Since many of the added features of the K4 are panadapter-centric, a blind ham may very well find that the K3S is a viable alternative. No doubt there will be more used K3's and K3S's on the market over the next year. The KX3 and KX2 provide audio CW feedback on most controls and are another non-touch alternative.
>
> I hope the alternatives I've suggested to use of the K4's normal UI will be helpful in most cases.
>
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>
>
>> On May 24, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Buddy Brannan [hidden email] [KX3] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> [Sorry, sent this to Gary instead of the list] Hey Gary,
>>
>> I’m curious about this as well, as are others…see K8HSY’s post on the blind-hams list. See also my response full of speculation (below). Wayne, please feel free to comment on my comments and correct me where I erred:
>>
>> I’ve been beating the accessibility drum on the Elecraft reflector for ages, and Wayne has assured that they would not go to all touch screen access, for that very reason. Elecraft has, in the person of one of their tech support people in the past, and Wayne in emails to me, committed to doing what they can in design parameters to make accessibility attainable, and they have been super cooperative with people like the Hampod folks and others who want to design accessibility tools.
>>
>> The K4 has a full GNU/Linux computer built into it, and it’s got a client/server architecture, with network access available, so it seems to me accessibility should be possible, even relatively easy, to implement. Especially given that there are still a wide range of physical buttons and knobs on board.
>>
>> And, unlike Yaecomwoodlincotec, the principals at Elecraft are not only available by email, but very responsive besides. If you’re really interested in a perspective direct from the horse’s mouth, write to Wayne directly at [hidden email]. He really does answer email.
>>
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Email: [hidden email]
>> Mobile: [phone]
>>
>>> On May 23, 2019, at 1:47 PM, Gary Lee [hidden email] [KX3] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> could someone describe the front panel of the k4 with reference to that of the k3? With the added touch screen, I am wondering about usability for the blind operator.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> __._,_.___
>> Posted by: Buddy Brannan <[hidden email]>
>> Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (2)
>> VISIT YOUR GROUP
>> • Privacy • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
>>
>> SPONSORED LINKS
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>> __,_._,___
>

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[Mark Goldberg]

What do people think about voice recognition? Recent Google Android phones
do a decent job of voice recognition on the phone itself with no connection
to the internet or cloud voice recogniton servers. There are open source
voice recognition software applications that run on Linux. No idea how
powerful the K4 processor is or how capable it might be to do this, but I'm
throwing the idea out there.

73,

Mark
W7MLG
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[wayne burdick]

Short answer: yes, but I can't put a date on it yet.

Wayne
N6KR

> On May 24, 2019, at 1:09 PM, David <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Is it possible to get the audio CW feedback on the K4, or even the K3/K3S?
>
> --David
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2019 11:26 AM
> To: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 and Accessibility
>
> Hi Wayne,
>
> Thanks as always for your direct response. I appreciate your forthrightness on this issue and willingness to tackle the more difficult questions/aspects/design decision justifications.
>
> Elecraft has, as I stated in my original email, always been supportive of the blind ham community inasmuch as design limitations and parameters allow, and I for one appreciate your continuing commitment to that. Computer control couldn’t be simpler on the Elecraft rigs I own. The Hampod is also a fantastic accessory, and we appreciate your working with the developers of these aids.
>
> I suspect that, were I able to get a higher end rig, I’d be opting for a K3 for the exact reasons you specify. But I’m a knob and button kind of guy. I think, were I interested in going whole hog for a K4, that your option (1) seems to be the most straightforward path, certainly in the short term, to get the mostbang for our accessibility buck, as it were. There’s lots of flexibility there.
>
> I’m not sure what the state of the art is for touch screen accessibility under GNU/Linux. I know there is a GNOME-based screen reader, as well as an Android-based screen reader. Given the right clever people, it might be possible to have an alternative UI, but, as you say, that would be a pretty significant support issue for a pretty small market of users. But one could potentially duplicate those controls on, say, an Amazon Fire or Android tablet app. I think there really are possibilities for the right clever people…shame I’m not one such.
>
> Again, I appreciate that Elecraft at least considers these issues, which is more than I can say for many, many other companies.
>
> Vy 73,
>
>
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Email: [hidden email]
> Mobile: [phone]
>
>
>
>> On May 24, 2019, at 2:02 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Buddy et al,
>>
>> We've definitely been thinking about this.
>>
>> There's a paradigm shift going on in transceiver design, and we reached a point where we needed to embrace it. This shift is not entirely aligned with accessibility, as you know. I'll address alternatives in this email.
>>
>> As for the K4 specifically, its user interface is dependent in part on use of the touch screen. This was simply the only way to integrate an equivalent of the K3S, P3, and all of the new hardware/software required to implement a direct-sampling radio. The use of a touch screen allows context sensitivity (physical overloading) for controls, making the K4 the equivalent of a much larger radio without touch. The resulting compact size is still compatible with portable use (4.5" x 13.5" x 11", 10 pounds, and power-efficient), a hallmark of Elecraft transceivers.
>>
>> Regarding accessibility, there are three possible approaches:
>>
>> 1. The K4's entire complement of controls, both hard and touch, will be represented by a set of "2-letter" commands. This API will be fully public as it is for our other transceivers. Presumably external devices or computers will be able to immediately make use of these commands to effect a flexible accessible interface.
>>
>> 2. In theory we could implement a large-target version of the LCD's touch controls, with proximity-based audio feedback and no panadapter. This would be a very ambitious project requiring ongoing support, similar to that needed for mobile/fixed app development. We don't have the staff to support this, so we'd need to engage the wider community to find a developer with suitable skills and motivation. The API or spec for such an effort doesn't exist at this time.
>>
>> 3. The K3S has very similar strong-signal performance and similar basic features, without touch. Since many of the added features of the K4 are panadapter-centric, a blind ham may very well find that the K3S is a viable alternative. No doubt there will be more used K3's and K3S's on the market over the next year. The KX3 and KX2 provide audio CW feedback on most controls and are another non-touch alternative.
>>
>> I hope the alternatives I've suggested to use of the K4's normal UI will be helpful in most cases.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 24, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Buddy Brannan [hidden email] [KX3] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> [Sorry, sent this to Gary instead of the list] Hey Gary,
>>>
>>> I’m curious about this as well, as are others…see K8HSY’s post on the blind-hams list. See also my response full of speculation (below). Wayne, please feel free to comment on my comments and correct me where I erred:
>>>
>>> I’ve been beating the accessibility drum on the Elecraft reflector for ages, and Wayne has assured that they would not go to all touch screen access, for that very reason. Elecraft has, in the person of one of their tech support people in the past, and Wayne in emails to me, committed to doing what they can in design parameters to make accessibility attainable, and they have been super cooperative with people like the Hampod folks and others who want to design accessibility tools.
>>>
>>> The K4 has a full GNU/Linux computer built into it, and it’s got a client/server architecture, with network access available, so it seems to me accessibility should be possible, even relatively easy, to implement. Especially given that there are still a wide range of physical buttons and knobs on board.
>>>
>>> And, unlike Yaecomwoodlincotec, the principals at Elecraft are not only available by email, but very responsive besides. If you’re really interested in a perspective direct from the horse’s mouth, write to Wayne directly at [hidden email]. He really does answer email.
>>>
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Email: [hidden email]
>>> Mobile: [phone]
>>>
>>>> On May 23, 2019, at 1:47 PM, Gary Lee [hidden email] [KX3] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> could someone describe the front panel of the k4 with reference to that of the k3? With the added touch screen, I am wondering about usability for the blind operator.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __._,_.___
>>> Posted by: Buddy Brannan <[hidden email]>
>>> Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (2)
>>> VISIT YOUR GROUP
>>> • Privacy • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
>>>
>>> SPONSORED LINKS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> __,_._,___
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
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[Elecraft mailing list]

Thanks Wayne, something to look forward to

--David


-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2019 3:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Buddy Brannan <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Elecraft K4 and Accessibility

Short answer: yes, but I can't put a date on it yet.

Wayne
N6KR

> On May 24, 2019, at 1:09 PM, David <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Is it possible to get the audio CW feedback on the K4, or even the K3/K3S?
>
> --David
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
> Sent: Friday, May 24, 2019 11:26 AM
> To: Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>;
> [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft K4 and Accessibility
>
> Hi Wayne,
>
> Thanks as always for your direct response. I appreciate your forthrightness on this issue and willingness to tackle the more difficult questions/aspects/design decision justifications.
>
> Elecraft has, as I stated in my original email, always been supportive of the blind ham community inasmuch as design limitations and parameters allow, and I for one appreciate your continuing commitment to that. Computer control couldn’t be simpler on the Elecraft rigs I own. The Hampod is also a fantastic accessory, and we appreciate your working with the developers of these aids.
>
> I suspect that, were I able to get a higher end rig, I’d be opting for a K3 for the exact reasons you specify. But I’m a knob and button kind of guy. I think, were I interested in going whole hog for a K4, that your option (1) seems to be the most straightforward path, certainly in the short term, to get the mostbang for our accessibility buck, as it were. There’s lots of flexibility there.
>
> I’m not sure what the state of the art is for touch screen accessibility under GNU/Linux. I know there is a GNOME-based screen reader, as well as an Android-based screen reader. Given the right clever people, it might be possible to have an alternative UI, but, as you say, that would be a pretty significant support issue for a pretty small market of users. But one could potentially duplicate those controls on, say, an Amazon Fire or Android tablet app. I think there really are possibilities for the right clever people…shame I’m not one such.
>
> Again, I appreciate that Elecraft at least considers these issues, which is more than I can say for many, many other companies.
>
> Vy 73,
>
>
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Email: [hidden email]
> Mobile: [phone]
>
>
>
>> On May 24, 2019, at 2:02 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Buddy et al,
>>
>> We've definitely been thinking about this.
>>
>> There's a paradigm shift going on in transceiver design, and we reached a point where we needed to embrace it. This shift is not entirely aligned with accessibility, as you know. I'll address alternatives in this email.
>>
>> As for the K4 specifically, its user interface is dependent in part on use of the touch screen. This was simply the only way to integrate an equivalent of the K3S, P3, and all of the new hardware/software required to implement a direct-sampling radio. The use of a touch screen allows context sensitivity (physical overloading) for controls, making the K4 the equivalent of a much larger radio without touch. The resulting compact size is still compatible with portable use (4.5" x 13.5" x 11", 10 pounds, and power-efficient), a hallmark of Elecraft transceivers.
>>
>> Regarding accessibility, there are three possible approaches:
>>
>> 1. The K4's entire complement of controls, both hard and touch, will be represented by a set of "2-letter" commands. This API will be fully public as it is for our other transceivers. Presumably external devices or computers will be able to immediately make use of these commands to effect a flexible accessible interface.
>>
>> 2. In theory we could implement a large-target version of the LCD's touch controls, with proximity-based audio feedback and no panadapter. This would be a very ambitious project requiring ongoing support, similar to that needed for mobile/fixed app development. We don't have the staff to support this, so we'd need to engage the wider community to find a developer with suitable skills and motivation. The API or spec for such an effort doesn't exist at this time.
>>
>> 3. The K3S has very similar strong-signal performance and similar basic features, without touch. Since many of the added features of the K4 are panadapter-centric, a blind ham may very well find that the K3S is a viable alternative. No doubt there will be more used K3's and K3S's on the market over the next year. The KX3 and KX2 provide audio CW feedback on most controls and are another non-touch alternative.
>>
>> I hope the alternatives I've suggested to use of the K4's normal UI will be helpful in most cases.
>>
>> 73,
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On May 24, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Buddy Brannan [hidden email] [KX3] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> [Sorry, sent this to Gary instead of the list] Hey Gary,
>>>
>>> I’m curious about this as well, as are others…see K8HSY’s post on the blind-hams list. See also my response full of speculation (below). Wayne, please feel free to comment on my comments and correct me where I erred:
>>>
>>> I’ve been beating the accessibility drum on the Elecraft reflector for ages, and Wayne has assured that they would not go to all touch screen access, for that very reason. Elecraft has, in the person of one of their tech support people in the past, and Wayne in emails to me, committed to doing what they can in design parameters to make accessibility attainable, and they have been super cooperative with people like the Hampod folks and others who want to design accessibility tools.
>>>
>>> The K4 has a full GNU/Linux computer built into it, and it’s got a client/server architecture, with network access available, so it seems to me accessibility should be possible, even relatively easy, to implement. Especially given that there are still a wide range of physical buttons and knobs on board.
>>>
>>> And, unlike Yaecomwoodlincotec, the principals at Elecraft are not only available by email, but very responsive besides. If you’re really interested in a perspective direct from the horse’s mouth, write to Wayne directly at [hidden email]. He really does answer email.
>>>
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Email: [hidden email]
>>> Mobile: [phone]
>>>
>>>> On May 23, 2019, at 1:47 PM, Gary Lee [hidden email] [KX3] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> could someone describe the front panel of the k4 with reference to that of the k3? With the added touch screen, I am wondering about usability for the blind operator.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __._,_.___
>>> Posted by: Buddy Brannan <[hidden email]>
>>> Reply via web post • Reply to sender • Reply to group • Start a New Topic • Messages in this topic (2)
>>> VISIT YOUR GROUP
>>> • Privacy • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
>>>
>>> SPONSORED LINKS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> __,_._,___
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html