Elecraft Product Ideas
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As I said before, I DO NOT want to install an
hf amplifier INSIDE my K2. A nice outboard amp would suit me. What are my small HF AMP choices, in the 100/200W PEP ranges? - HF Packer @ 35amp - hardly enough DB gain. - Tokoyo 100W - a bit illegal to buy - HF SuperPro 100W - if it becomes available - ? The FCC, and probably the 11m CB'ers, haven't made this easy. So a nice 100 or 200W PEP amp, for me, would be a good addition on the desk space next to my soon-to-be-aligned K2 # 5422. I've lived thru the AM, SSB, Tubes, "solid state" days. Got my EE degree and worked in the field 30 years. Worked in many MANY microelectronics fab and design groups. I'm quite sure I know more about CMOS, bipolar and analog IC design/fab/test - than I do about Tube technology. Its a reality - that there are few FEW IC designers out there - who understand RF. And only recently have they begun to worry about R/L/C's (strays & parasitics) - in their chip/device layouts & designs. Sub-micron has made this a designer's requirement. I do not understand the design constraints of creating a linear HF amplifier. All I know is the tube amps of a generation back, along with the 2006 tube maxi amps (KWatt) of today - all seem to have relatively simple circuits. Intuition tells me - a 6146 TUBE amp box, designed right, powered right - would be a very useful amplifier addition - and would earn respect to those who heard it on the bands. What's to knock? And I have to believe it could be relatively small. As a list member of several IC-7000 and IC-706MKIIG BB groups - these hams regularly complain about solid state final problems in these 2006 rigs. Icom's lack of replacement devices, mysterious problems, failures, $300 replacement Icom service charges .... "heat" problems, are all common topics on these boards. In all, over past 10 years I've owned (3) IC-706MKIIG's, and (1) IC-7000 (winter 2005 when they came out). But alas - I like the smell of solder, like to build things with my hands. And my intuition usually serves me well. Anyone out there - think a 200Watt PEP tube 6146 amplifier - would cut it with a K2? Why? Why not? Why couldn't Elecraft, design and market one? I'll leave the "Product Ideas" arena - too much what-if I suspect. I guess I'm also a poor QRP'er candidate. 73's, Fred, N3CSY __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Hello Fred,
> As I said before, I DO NOT want to install an > hf amplifier INSIDE my K2. A nice outboard amp > would suit me. What are my small HF AMP > choices, in the 100/200W PEP ranges? KPA100 in an EC2. See <http://www.kk7p.com/k2kpa100.html> Enjoy! Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
Why don't you build a KPA100 and put it in a separate EC2 enclosure as many, myself included, have done.
&3, Doug W6JD -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]> > As I said before, I DO NOT want to install an > hf amplifier INSIDE my K2. A nice outboard amp > would suit me. What are my small HF AMP > choices, in the 100/200W PEP ranges? > > - HF Packer @ 35amp - hardly enough DB gain. > - Tokoyo 100W - a bit illegal to buy > - HF SuperPro 100W - if it becomes available > - ? > > The FCC, and probably the 11m CB'ers, haven't made > this easy. > > So a nice 100 or 200W PEP amp, for me, would be > a good addition on the desk space next to my > soon-to-be-aligned K2 # 5422. > > I've lived thru the AM, SSB, Tubes, "solid state" > days. Got my EE degree and worked in the field > 30 years. Worked in many MANY microelectronics > fab and design groups. I'm quite sure I know > more about CMOS, bipolar and analog IC design/fab/test > - than I do about Tube technology. > > Its a reality - that there are few FEW IC designers > out there - who understand RF. And only recently > have they begun to worry about R/L/C's (strays > & parasitics) - in their chip/device layouts & > designs. Sub-micron has made this a designer's > requirement. > > I do not understand the design constraints of > creating a linear HF amplifier. All I know is > the tube amps of a generation back, along with > the 2006 tube maxi amps (KWatt) of today - all seem > to have relatively simple circuits. > > Intuition tells me - a 6146 TUBE amp box, designed > right, powered right - would be a very useful > amplifier addition - and would earn respect to > those who heard it on the bands. What's to knock? > And I have to believe it could be relatively > small. > > As a list member of several IC-7000 and IC-706MKIIG > BB groups - these hams regularly complain about > solid state final problems in these 2006 rigs. > Icom's lack of replacement devices, mysterious > problems, failures, $300 replacement Icom service > charges .... "heat" problems, are all common topics on > these boards. In all, over past 10 years I've > owned (3) IC-706MKIIG's, and (1) IC-7000 (winter > 2005 when they came out). > > But alas - I like the smell of solder, like to > build things with my hands. And my intuition > usually serves me well. > > Anyone out there - think a 200Watt PEP tube > 6146 amplifier - would cut it with a K2? > Why? Why not? > > Why couldn't Elecraft, design and market one? > > I'll leave the "Product Ideas" arena - too much > what-if I suspect. I guess I'm also a poor > QRP'er candidate. > > 73's, Fred, N3CSY > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
On May 22, 2006, at 5:35 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: > As I said before, I DO NOT want to install an > hf amplifier INSIDE my K2. A nice outboard amp > would suit me. What are my small HF AMP > choices, in the 100/200W PEP ranges? > > - HF Packer @ 35amp - hardly enough DB gain. > - Tokoyo 100W - a bit illegal to buy > - HF SuperPro 100W - if it becomes available > - ? I think there are some amps from Italy but these also are currently illegal in the U.S. > The FCC, and probably the 11m CB'ers, haven't made > this easy. The FCC has proposed easing the regulations and hopefully this will happen soon. If/when it does, the situation will change and I expect there will be additional (legal) choices, possibly including legal- limit amps which can be driven by a barefoot K2. > > So a nice 100 or 200W PEP amp, for me, would be > a good addition on the desk space next to my > soon-to-be-aligned K2 # 5422. > As others have mentioned, installing the KPA100 in an EC2 enclosure is a good choice. 73 - Bob, N7XY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
In a message dated 5/22/06 8:38:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes: > As I said before, I DO NOT want to install an > hf amplifier INSIDE my K2. A nice outboard amp > would suit me. As others have already pointed out, just build the KPA100 in an EC2 enclosure, Elecraft can't offer that as a kit, but you can homebrew/modify it. > > The FCC, and probably the 11m CB'ers, haven't made > this easy. > It's been that way since 1978. Perhaps the rules will change, but I would not count on it any time soon because FCC takes a while to make Part 97 changes. > I'm quite sure I know > more about CMOS, bipolar and analog IC design/fab/test > - than I do about Tube technology. Tubes are high voltage/low current devices. Different game than silicon. > > I do not understand the design constraints of > creating a linear HF amplifier. I do. All I know is > > the tube amps of a generation back, along with > the 2006 tube maxi amps (KWatt) of today - all seem > to have relatively simple circuits. > Yes, they did. That's because: 1) They could use one or two active devices rather than many 2) They required manual adjustment of the output filter/matching network 3) Most of them had no RF feedback and no real protection against operator error > Intuition tells me - a 6146 TUBE amp box, designed > right, powered right - would be a very useful > amplifier addition - and would earn respect to > those who heard it on the bands. Where I work, we have a saying: "The track circuit does not care how you feel" What's to knock? > > And I have to believe it could be relatively > small. > Compared to what? A pair-of-6146s amplifier has to be at least twice the size of a K2 in order to hold the necessary parts. > As a list member of several IC-7000 and IC-706MKIIG > BB groups - these hams regularly complain about > solid state final problems in these 2006 rigs. > Icom's lack of replacement devices, mysterious > problems, failures, $300 replacement Icom service > charges .... "heat" problems, are all common topics on > these boards. In all, over past 10 years I've > owned (3) IC-706MKIIG's, and (1) IC-7000 (winter > 2005 when they came out). > Those are two models by one manufacturer, both of them super-compact rigs. The problems cited are an indication of trouble with that particular design, not SS finals in general. > But alas - I like the smell of solder, like to > build things with my hands. Then get a junker HW-100 or similar Heath rig, and rework the PA section as an amplifier. There's an article on how to do it on the Elecraft website. If you don't want the entire rig taking up desktop space, rebuild the PA section in a smaller cabinet. And my intuition > > usually serves me well. > "The track circuit does not care how you feel" > Anyone out there - think a 200Watt PEP tube > 6146 amplifier - would cut it with a K2? > Why? Why not? Depends what you mean by 'cut it'. > Why couldn't Elecraft, design and market one? > It could be designed.. But: 1) Such an external amplifier could not be certified under current FCC rules. It would have to be internal. That means a much bigger case than the K2 now has. 2) The parts cost would probably be much more than a KPA100, particularly if a power supply (12 volts DC or 120 volts AC) were included. 3) Manual tuning would be required. 4) The finished product would compete with an established Elecraft option. 73 de Jim, N2EY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
On May 22, 2006, at 8:35 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: > Anyone out there - think a 200Watt PEP tube > 6146 amplifier - would cut it with a K2? > Why? Why not? You gonna run four tubes to get 200 watt PEP out? I've been through this, Fred. 6146's were great in their day, but that day has passed. Get the KPA100 and mount it in an EC2 case. There's your external amplifier. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email] Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!" -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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My answer would be: Don't use 6146's! two Raytheon 4D32's would do the job much better. They are
as cheap as 6146's now. 73, Sandy W5TVW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Coleman" <[hidden email]> To: "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Product Ideas | | On May 22, 2006, at 8:35 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: | | > Anyone out there - think a 200Watt PEP tube | > 6146 amplifier - would cut it with a K2? | > Why? Why not? | | You gonna run four tubes to get 200 watt PEP out? | | I've been through this, Fred. 6146's were great in their day, but | that day has passed. Get the KPA100 and mount it in an EC2 case. | There's your external amplifier. | | Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email] | Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!" | -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 | | _______________________________________________ | Elecraft mailing list | Post to: [hidden email] | You must be a subscriber to post to the list. | Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): | http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft | | Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm | Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com | | | | -- | No virus found in this incoming message. | Checked by AVG Free Edition. | Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.6.1/344 - Release Date: 5/19/2006 | | _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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One reason Elecraft (or any other manufactor of kits) would be unlikely to
offer tube amps is that they don't want builders putting "der fusin blowing fingers" in a rig with a kilovolt B plus supply. Or multi kv supply for high power (QROo?) amps. One big advantage of solid state rigs. But I still can and do blow the fuses. 73 Rick Dettinger K7MW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy W5TVW" <[hidden email]> To: "Bill Coleman" <[hidden email]>; "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]> Cc: <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Product Ideas > My answer would be: Don't use 6146's! two Raytheon 4D32's would do the job much better. They are > as cheap as 6146's now. > > 73, > Sandy W5TVW > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Coleman" <[hidden email]> > To: "Fred (FL)" <[hidden email]> > Cc: <[hidden email]> > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 10:04 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft Product Ideas > > > | > | On May 22, 2006, at 8:35 AM, Fred (FL) wrote: > | > | > Anyone out there - think a 200Watt PEP tube > | > 6146 amplifier - would cut it with a K2? > | > Why? Why not? > | > | You gonna run four tubes to get 200 watt PEP out? > | > | I've been through this, Fred. 6146's were great in their day, but > | that day has passed. Get the KPA100 and mount it in an EC2 case. > | There's your external amplifier. > | > | Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASEL Mail: [hidden email] > | Quote: "Not within a thousand years will man ever fly!" > | -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 > | > | _______________________________________________ > | Elecraft mailing list > | Post to: [hidden email] > | You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > | Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > | http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > | > | Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > | Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > | > | > | > | -- > | No virus found in this incoming message. > | Checked by AVG Free Edition. > | Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.6.1/344 - Release Date: 5/19/2006 > | > | > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
In a message dated 5/23/06 11:47:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [hidden email]
writes: > Don't use 6146's! two Raytheon 4D32's would do the job much better. They > are > as cheap as 6146's now. > Actually, one 4D32 has almost the power rating of two 6146s. Two 4D32s could probably due 200W easy. 73 de Jim, N2EY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
In a message dated 5/23/06 12:16:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [hidden email]
writes: > One reason Elecraft (or any other manufactor of kits) would be unlikely to > offer tube amps is that they don't want builders putting "der fusin blowing > fingers" in a rig with a kilovolt B plus supply. Or multi kv supply for > high power (QROo?) amps. One big advantage of solid state rigs. Well, sort of. An amp of any serious power will require house current of considerable wattage, and 120 or 240 will kill you stone cold dead if you get careless. On top of that, the current levels of SS power amplifiers are rather serious. To produce 1500W of RF out requires about 3000W DC input or more. If the supply is 50 volts, that's 60 amps or more. Get a ring or other metal object across that and you can fry off a finger or worse. Get a tool across it and the sparks and flying molten metal can be a hazard to your sight, while the boom can be dangerous to your hearing. The dangers are different but the precautions are the same. 73 de Jim, N2EY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by N2EY
On May 23, 2006, at 4:24 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > In a message dated 5/23/06 11:47:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > [hidden email] > writes: > > >> Don't use 6146's! two Raytheon 4D32's would do the job much >> better. They >> are >> as cheap as 6146's now. >> > > Actually, one 4D32 has almost the power rating of two 6146s. Two > 4D32s could > probably due 200W easy. > I recall that the 4D32 was pretty expensive back in the 1950s, while 6146s were much cheaper. Things change. The Johnson Viking I (4D32) was rated at 150W input (CW) and the Viking II (2x6146) was rated at 180 watts input. My first kit was a Viking II plus external VFO (1953). Three 6146s would probably also do 200W output. I would suggest that anyone building a rig with either tube purchase several spares while they are still available. 73 - Bob, N7XY _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Fred (FL)
This is definately OT, but regarding the cost of a 6146, when I was a teenager a 6146 (for my DX-60)cost a about 6 bucks. Taking a teenage girl out on a Saturday night also cost about 6 bucks back then. So I had a choice...I won't tell you what my decision was, however, on another thread here a guy posted that his (blond and attractive) wife was trying to buy him a new rig, but she couldn't get near the Elecraft booth with all the 'nerds' hanging out there...maybe I made the wrong choice on how to spend that 6 bucks. Tom WB2QDG K2 1103 -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Bob Nielsen <[hidden email]> > > On May 23, 2006, at 4:24 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/23/06 11:47:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > [hidden email] > > writes: > > > > > >> Don't use 6146's! two Raytheon 4D32's would do the job much > >> better. They > >> are > >> as cheap as 6146's now. > >> > > > > Actually, one 4D32 has almost the power rating of two 6146s. Two > > 4D32s could > > probably due 200W easy. > > > > I recall that the 4D32 was pretty expensive back in the 1950s, while > 6146s were much cheaper. Things change. The Johnson Viking I (4D32) > was rated at 150W input (CW) and the Viking II (2x6146) was rated at > 180 watts input. My first kit was a Viking II plus external VFO > (1953). Three 6146s would probably also do 200W output. I would > suggest that anyone building a rig with either tube purchase several > spares while they are still available. > > 73 - Bob, N7XY > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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