Elecraft business practices - more info

[Lou Voerman W2ROW]

I heard from Elecraft Sales and will attempt to communicate what I was told.
Sales is using a new shopping cart platform which allows them limited time
to capture payment information. As a result, it seems that they are unable
to defer payment in the case of a backorder, so orders are charged
immediately (as was the case for the two orders I placed recently).

They said that they are testing a new application which will allow deferring
payment until actual ship time. The target for this application to be
implemented is next month. In the mean time they said they will add a refund
offer to the notifications they send to customers when a backorder occurs.

I am generally satisfied with this explanation but would have liked to have been
told in advance.

Again, I have been a loyal and satisfied Elecraft customer for many years
and am not attempting to in any way talk anyone out of doing business with
them. I was surprised when my credit card was charged twice before shipment
was projected to occur and now I have more knowledge.

Thanks,
Lou





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[Cliff Frescura]

Being in the payments industry, I can tell you that most of these policies
are driven by the card brands (Visa, MasterCard, etc.), certifying bodies
(PCI, EMVCo) as well as the payment gateways.  It is a very complicated
chain with many rules.

The shopping cart either does an immediate charge or what is called a
"pre-auth" where it holds the funds but does not transfer them yet.  If and
when they decide to actually charge the card, then a complete/post-auth is
issued.  The catch is that if a pre-auth is issued it will reverse
automatically if no complete/post-auth is issued, usually within 24 hours.
So the only practical choice is to charge the card.

The alternative is for the shopping cart to get a card token from the
gateway that it can store and retrieve for later payment.  It is verboten to
store clear text card numbers, in any media: computer, post it note, etc.
When the order is shipped, operations tells the shopping cart software to go
ahead and charge against the card token.  In this scenario it would be best
practice to the shopping cart software to also delete the token and
associated card data from the payment gateway, unless the cardholder
explicitly opted in to save card info.

This is not an Elecraft only issue.  Payments are very complicated and
challenging for many merchants.  Fundamental reasons are for risk reduction
(for all stakeholders) and security.

73,

Cliff K3LL

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lou Voerman W2ROW
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 1:27 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft business practices - more info

I heard from Elecraft Sales and will attempt to communicate what I was told.

Sales is using a new shopping cart platform which allows them limited time
to capture payment information. As a result, it seems that they are unable
to defer payment in the case of a backorder, so orders are charged
immediately (as was the case for the two orders I placed recently).

They said that they are testing a new application which will allow deferring
payment until actual ship time. The target for this application to be
implemented is next month. In the mean time they said they will add a refund
offer to the notifications they send to customers when a backorder occurs.

I am generally satisfied with this explanation but would have liked to have
told in advance.

Again, I have been a loyal and satisfied Elecraft customer for many years
and am not attempting to in any way talk anyone out of doing business with
them. I was surprised when my credit card was charged twice before shipment
was projected to occur and now I have more knowledge.

Thanks,
Lou





--
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[John Simmons]

Cliff,

Thanks for your insightful post. I was in the mail-order biz in the 80s,
and we had to rely on weekly mailings of flagged credit card numbers. It
was a PITA to look up every number taken over the phone and most of us
at this place relied on 'gut' instincts based upon the behavior of the
caller. Much safer now!

73,
John NI0K

> Cliff Frescura <mailto:[hidden email]>
> Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:52 PM
> Being in the payments industry, I can tell you that most of these policies
> are driven by the card brands (Visa, MasterCard, etc.), certifying bodies
> (PCI, EMVCo) as well as the payment gateways. It is a very complicated
> chain with many rules.
>
> The shopping cart either does an immediate charge or what is called a
> "pre-auth" where it holds the funds but does not transfer them yet. If and
> when they decide to actually charge the card, then a complete/post-auth is
> issued. The catch is that if a pre-auth is issued it will reverse
> automatically if no complete/post-auth is issued, usually within 24 hours.
> So the only practical choice is to charge the card.
>
> The alternative is for the shopping cart to get a card token from the
> gateway that it can store and retrieve for later payment. It is
> verboten to
> store clear text card numbers, in any media: computer, post it note, etc.
> When the order is shipped, operations tells the shopping cart software
> to go
> ahead and charge against the card token. In this scenario it would be best
> practice to the shopping cart software to also delete the token and
> associated card data from the payment gateway, unless the cardholder
> explicitly opted in to save card info.
>
> This is not an Elecraft only issue. Payments are very complicated and
> challenging for many merchants. Fundamental reasons are for risk reduction
> (for all stakeholders) and security.
>
> 73,
>
> Cliff K3LL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lou Voerman W2ROW
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 1:27 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft business practices - more info
>
> I heard from Elecraft Sales and will attempt to communicate what I was
> told.
>
> Sales is using a new shopping cart platform which allows them limited time
> to capture payment information. As a result, it seems that they are unable
> to defer payment in the case of a backorder, so orders are charged
> immediately (as was the case for the two orders I placed recently).
>
> They said that they are testing a new application which will allow
> deferring
> payment until actual ship time. The target for this application to be
> implemented is next month. In the mean time they said they will add a
> refund
> offer to the notifications they send to customers when a backorder occurs.
>
> I am generally satisfied with this explanation but would have liked to
> have
> told in advance.
>
> Again, I have been a loyal and satisfied Elecraft customer for many years
> and am not attempting to in any way talk anyone out of doing business with
> them. I was surprised when my credit card was charged twice before
> shipment
> was projected to occur and now I have more knowledge.
>
> Thanks,
> Lou
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT-3]

... and being in the service provider business, I can tell you that way
too many shopping carts are set up on the assumption that the product
will ship within 24 hours.

The typical developer has never read a merchant credit card agreement,
and doesn't know that many of them state that you do not charge the card
until the merchandise is actually shipped.

The developer doesn't seen a need for split transactions, since no one
ever mentioned that they'd be taking orders for a very expensive product
with an order backlog.

I'm ashamed of what my industry has become.

-- Lynn

On 2/13/2019 8:52 PM, Cliff Frescura wrote:
> Being in the payments industry, I can tell you that most of these policies
> are driven by the card brands (Visa, MasterCard, etc.), certifying bodies
> (PCI, EMVCo) as well as the payment gateways.  It is a very complicated
> chain with many rules.
______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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