Elecraft transveters and freq. counter/signal generator

[Matt Osborn]

According to the transverter manual, I will need a 50mhz signal
generator or a frequency counter to successfully align the
transverter.

I've done a lot searching for signal generators and have found that
those capable of 50mhz are very expensive, around $1500 dollars
minimum.

I found a B&K frequency counter (Model 1856D) for around $430.00 that
will measure up to 3ghz.  I suspect that B&K doesn't have the
tolerances of the big boys, hence their lower prices.  B&K also has a
model that will measure up to 175mhz for about $100.00 less.  The 175
would be enough for the transverter, but in for a penny, in for a
pound comes to mind.  Why spend $350.00 this month and then $430.00
next month?

Will the 1856D work for aligning the transverter?  My question
revolves around which of the two instruments (signal generator or
freq. counter) will accomplish the task the best.

Better yet, anybody know of any better alternatives?  I keep running
into the chicken and egg problem.  If I build it myself, I can't
calibrate it. If I buy the tools to calibrate it, then I don't need to
build  it.

They say a smart man learns from his mistakes, but a wise man learns
from the mistakes of others. Please help me be a wise man.

All advice is most welcome!
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[johnny-52]

Hi Matt,

There is always some tolerence in frequency in the amateur radio world.  A
modern transceiver such as ICOM IC756pro3 equipped with TCXO could be a very
good alternative frequency source.  You may consider bringing your
transverter to hams who own these kind of rigs for calibration.  Clearly, if
you can find a IC7800, then it should be better.  Unless you are keen on
testing your equipments, investing further in laboratory grade signal
generator seems too dear.

73

Johnny Siu VR2XMC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Osborn" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 9:24 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Elecraft transveters and freq. counter/signal generator


According to the transverter manual, I will need a 50mhz signal
generator or a frequency counter to successfully align the
transverter.

I've done a lot searching for signal generators and have found that
those capable of 50mhz are very expensive, around $1500 dollars
minimum.

I found a B&K frequency counter (Model 1856D) for around $430.00 that
will measure up to 3ghz.  I suspect that B&K doesn't have the
tolerances of the big boys, hence their lower prices.  B&K also has a
model that will measure up to 175mhz for about $100.00 less.  The 175
would be enough for the transverter, but in for a penny, in for a
pound comes to mind.  Why spend $350.00 this month and then $430.00
next month?

Will the 1856D work for aligning the transverter?  My question
revolves around which of the two instruments (signal generator or
freq. counter) will accomplish the task the best.

Better yet, anybody know of any better alternatives?  I keep running
into the chicken and egg problem.  If I build it myself, I can't
calibrate it. If I buy the tools to calibrate it, then I don't need to
build  it.

They say a smart man learns from his mistakes, but a wise man learns
from the mistakes of others. Please help me be a wise man.

All advice is most welcome!
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[Jeff Stai WK6I]

hi Matt - it all kind of depends on how accurate YOU want it to be - but you can align it by simply using any 50MHz receiver or transmitter that is in any reasonable state of alignment. The adjustment itself is not super critical.

For example, you could have another station send you a CW test signal on 50.100. Set your receiver to receive 50.100 and adjust the trimmer Z6 until you have the test signal in the right place in your receiver passband.

Many antenna analyzers (e.g., MFJ) have a frequency counter function, it just may not be obvious. You might also be able to use a receiver to pick up the 22.000MHz signal from the LO with a sensing wire near it and zero beat to that (I haven't tried this).

If all else fails, find a local 50MHz net and listen in - adjust the trimmer until you can hear them on the expected frequency. You could do same with a local beacon in the 50.060-50.080 US beacon band - here's a good list of worldwide beacons:

http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/por/50.htm

(If you tell me where you are, I may be able to help further...)

hope this gets you started! - jeff wk6i


At 06:24 PM 7/5/2005, Matt Osborn wrote:
>According to the transverter manual, I will need a 50mhz signal
>generator or a frequency counter to successfully align the
>transverter.

--
Jeff Stai               [hidden email]
Twisted Oak Winery      http://www.twistedoak.com/
Rocketry Org. of CA     http://www.rocstock.org/
Amateur Radio           WK6I ~ Calaveras County, CA ~ WI6NE
40th Annual California QSO Party! ~ Oct 1-2, 2005 ~ http://www.cqp.org/


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[Don Wilhelm-3]

Matt,

On the aquisition of test equipment, there is a tender balance between price
and performance.  And it revolves around how often the equipment will be
used and just how accurate is necessary.  Tradeoffs are often required.  For
instance, I have a very good frequency counter, and my signal generator,
while quite stable, does not have a digital readout of frequency, so the
frequency resolution of the generator alone is sometimes inadequate - I use
my very stable and accurate counter to set the freqency of the signal
generator, so I don't need a signal generator with digital readout, so I
looked for one that would be stable.

You will have to review your own needs and justify the purchase of test gear
within the range of your ham budget.  Often, you can combine instrumentation
to produce more accurate results.  As you can likely determine from the
above paragraph, a really good frequency counter is the highest on my list
of priorities, as is an accurate DVM and a good 'scope - with the ones I
have,  I can measure frequency, voltage and phase of RF signals up to 100
MHz and frequency up to 512 MHz.  I can use these three instruments (within
the range limits of each) to utilize other not-so-accurate instruments (such
as my signal generator) while achieving accurate results.  Understand your
needs, and for a one-shot measurement, ask around for folks who can do those
measurements for you (an aquantence who works in an electronics lab???), or
investigate electronic equipment rental places - it is usually better to
rent than to buy if you are only going to use it once.

So for your direct question, I would opt for the frequency counter rather
than the signal generator - you can make a simple signal generator from a
crystal oscillator and determine the exact frequency with your counter, and
the signal generator level can be determined with an RF Probe if need be.
More convenience in test equipment means more dollars, but the same results
can be obtained by alternate means if one applies a bit of creative thinking
about other known accurate instruments that may be available.  Sometimes the
use of such fundamentals as Ohms Law and similarly basic relationships can
be used in conjunction with your array of available instruments to expand
your capabilities at little extra cost - for example, a voltmeter becomes a
current meter with a bit of Ohms Law application and a small value resistor.

73,
Don W3FPR

> -----Original Message-----
>
> According to the transverter manual, I will need a 50mhz signal
> generator or a frequency counter to successfully align the
> transverter.
>
> I've done a lot searching for signal generators and have found that
> those capable of 50mhz are very expensive, around $1500 dollars
> minimum.
>
> I found a B&K frequency counter (Model 1856D) for around $430.00 that
> will measure up to 3ghz.  I suspect that B&K doesn't have the
> tolerances of the big boys, hence their lower prices.  B&K also has a
> model that will measure up to 175mhz for about $100.00 less.  The 175
> would be enough for the transverter, but in for a penny, in for a
> pound comes to mind.  Why spend $350.00 this month and then $430.00
> next month?
>
> Will the 1856D work for aligning the transverter?  My question
> revolves around which of the two instruments (signal generator or
> freq. counter) will accomplish the task the best.
>
> Better yet, anybody know of any better alternatives?  I keep running
> into the chicken and egg problem.  If I build it myself, I can't
> calibrate it. If I buy the tools to calibrate it, then I don't need to
> build  it.
>
> They say a smart man learns from his mistakes, but a wise man learns
> from the mistakes of others. Please help me be a wise man.
>
> All advice is most welcome!

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[N8LP]

If you want to start gathering test equipment Matt, you should start
watching eBay and other used equipment sources to get an idea what's out
there and what it goes for. I'm a big believer in buying used gear of
10-20 year old vintage from Hewlett Packard and Tektronix in particular.
I have an arsenal of test equipment I have assembled over the last
several years that includes a HP Vector Network Analyzer, HP signal
generator, Tek spectrum analyzer, a Tek bench scope, portable Tek scope
and some other odds and ends. These are pieces that were state of the
art not too long ago, all solid state, etc.

The total price for all this stuff when it was new was well over
$50,000... I paid a total of about $2000. You can't  approach the specs
of this gear with ham grade equipment, although in certain instances you
can come close enough for many measurements with a combination of
commercial, kit and homebrew ham gear if you are willing to build a good
part of it.  A counter is an example of something that you can get at a
good price, especially a kit version... but I would stick with used gear
for a scope or signal generator.

Larry N8LP



Matt Osborn wrote:

>According to the transverter manual, I will need a 50mhz signal
>generator or a frequency counter to successfully align the
>transverter.
>
>I've done a lot searching for signal generators and have found that
>those capable of 50mhz are very expensive, around $1500 dollars
>minimum.
>
>I found a B&K frequency counter (Model 1856D) for around $430.00 that
>will measure up to 3ghz.  I suspect that B&K doesn't have the
>tolerances of the big boys, hence their lower prices.  B&K also has a
>model that will measure up to 175mhz for about $100.00 less.  The 175
>would be enough for the transverter, but in for a penny, in for a
>pound comes to mind.  Why spend $350.00 this month and then $430.00
>next month?
>
>Will the 1856D work for aligning the transverter?  My question
>revolves around which of the two instruments (signal generator or
>freq. counter) will accomplish the task the best.
>
>Better yet, anybody know of any better alternatives?  I keep running
>into the chicken and egg problem.  If I build it myself, I can't
>calibrate it. If I buy the tools to calibrate it, then I don't need to
>build  it.
>
>They say a smart man learns from his mistakes, but a wise man learns
>from the mistakes of others. Please help me be a wise man.
>
>All advice is most welcome!
>_______________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Post to: [hidden email]
>You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>
>
>  
>

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