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Equipment Storage and operation

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Dave Sublette-2

Equipment Storage and operation

I should start with an apology to the group. Although I stand by what I
said in a previous post, I feel that the way I expressed myself was in
violation of decorum standards for this group. I am sorry for that.

After letting my BP come down and thinking about it a bit, I realized that
I have useful experience doing the very same thing that the gentleman was
asking about. I stored and operated equipment in an unheated, uncooled
outdoor environment for over 20 years. To wit, I operated four microwave
bands with transverters and amplifiers mounted remotely in a "weatherproof"
box mounted at 185 feet on my 200 foot rotating tower. Here is what
happened:

The equipment was mounted in an enclosure commonly referred to as the
"white box project" among microwave folks. It is of very high quality
design and construction, having sealed gaskets around the hinged cover and
screened vents. The equipment inside consisted of DEMI transverters, which
I built from a kit and amplifiers that were originally built for commercial
microwave links. The point being, it was all very good quality. I have
the test gear to verify that it was all operating with good sensitivity,
etc....

Over the course of the time I used it, I had to bring it down every two to
four years for repair. Corrosion from condensation was a big problem. On
the circuit boards, chip components would crack and solder connections
opened, probably from expansion and contraction due to heat and cold. I
don't recall any electrolytic capacitor failures, but those would certainly
be vulnerable under those conditions.

It was first degree abuse of electronics equipment, no doubt. My defense
for this is that it was unavoidable because the equipment has to be mounted
close to the antennas to minimize transmission line losses. I believe the
majority of us that operate microwaves mount our equipment like this and
there are many stories similar to mine.

Some folks mounted fans and light bulbs in the remote enclosures. The fans
removed some of the heat in Summer and the lightbulbs maintained some heat
in Winter and kept some of condensation from forming. Short of elaborate
measures, I don't know how the operating conditions could be matched to
those in a heated and air-conditioned shack.

So here is my attempt at constructive suggestion. I still cringe at the
thought of putting any equipment in an unheated and uncooled space outside.

73,

Dave, K4TO
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ktalbott

Re: Equipment Storage and operation

We engineered electronics packages for these types of environment, from
desert to arctic. Keys for success:
1- Inside of housing must be designed to route any condensation away from
the electronics. Design ENCOURAGES condensation on normally cooler
enclosure surfaces, not the electronics.
2- A compartment heater (actually a high wattage, low value resistor) is
ALWAYS energized to keep interior air temperature and temperature of
electronic assemblies slightly above exterior.
3- Compartment must be absolutely air tight so as not to allow breathing as
atmospheric pressure changes.
Condensation that occurs collects on housing and drains to bottom of
enclosure. If cooling is required, it must be done with heat exchanger to
avoid ingress of outside air.
BTW, mission critical equipment was housed in nitrogen purged compartments,
including conduit which is major source of humid air flow! We required that
equipment stored during construction must have compartment heaters
energized.
So, it can be done.
Ken ke4rg

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On
Behalf Of Dave Sublette
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 8:38 AM
To: Elecraft Discussion List <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] Equipment Storage and operation

I should start with an apology to the group. Although I stand by what I
said in a previous post, I feel that the way I expressed myself was in
violation of decorum standards for this group. I am sorry for that.

<snip>

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Michael Walker

Re: Equipment Storage and operation

Just to expand on this and share my experiences.

I have been running a remote station in Ontario for 15 years. The building
is not heated or cooled at all.

It has seen from 100F down to -20F without issue. The radios have been
Kenwood TS480 to a Flex 6300 and during the time, the amps were either an
SGC500 or a KPA500. The TS480 and the KPA500 come right online from the
coldest days possible. One day it took 10 minutes of full power RTTY to
get the amp temp to read above 0C (32F). That is how cold it was.

The Flex 6300 is only engineered to 0F for the FPGA as it is not cold
temperature hardened. My solution to that is that I don't turn off the
Flex all winter as the FPGA generates enough heat (about 5 watts) to keep
itself warm.

The humidity ranges from 20% to 100% and it can change from that in weeks
if not days. That past week it has been mid 90's and about the same in
humidity.

I have a few tower control boxes and for the most part, they are open at
the bottom to let any moisture drain out should it happen to get inside as
I have given up on total box waterproofing. I have seen too many equipment
boxes flooded, so 1/16" holes seem to solve that. Fresh water does not
hurt most electronics. Yes, those in Salt Water areas have bigger problems.

I've taken a KX2 out of a car that was at -20C and used it (yes, the LCD
was slow). That same KX2 has been taken from its pelican case at +35C and
used it. It might have been a bit off frequency but I had no way of
telling or hearing if it actually was.

I have yet to have an issue in the past 15 years that I can relate to being
in a non-environmentally controlled room.

The same is true for our cars that see the same temperature extremes
without issues (other than car batteries that fail). I take that back.
On one car, my XM radio antenna would fail if it got too cold. Welcome to
the Great White North!

The short story is, the electronics we use today are well engineered and
can handle temperature extremes and with a bit of ventilation help, they
should work just fine.

Mike va3mw

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 7:04 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We engineered electronics packages for these types of environment, from
> desert to arctic. Keys for success:
> 1- Inside of housing must be designed to route any condensation away from
> the electronics. Design ENCOURAGES condensation on normally cooler
> enclosure surfaces, not the electronics.
> 2- A compartment heater (actually a high wattage, low value resistor) is
> ALWAYS energized to keep interior air temperature and temperature of
> electronic assemblies slightly above exterior.
> 3- Compartment must be absolutely air tight so as not to allow breathing as
> atmospheric pressure changes.
> Condensation that occurs collects on housing and drains to bottom of
> enclosure. If cooling is required, it must be done with heat exchanger to
> avoid ingress of outside air.
> BTW, mission critical equipment was housed in nitrogen purged compartments,
> including conduit which is major source of humid air flow! We required
> that
> equipment stored during construction must have compartment heaters
> energized.
> So, it can be done.
> Ken ke4rg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> On
> Behalf Of Dave Sublette
> Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 8:38 AM
> To: Elecraft Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Equipment Storage and operation
>
> I should start with an apology to the group. Although I stand by what I
> said in a previous post, I feel that the way I expressed myself was in
> violation of decorum standards for this group. I am sorry for that.
>
> <snip>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Dean L

Re: Equipment Storage and operation

I'm gonna jump on this before Eric pulls the plug and takes US to the
woodshed.

I have had a rig(s) of some sort in my vehicles over the past 38 years
driving, in the central Adirondack mts of NY.
Today I used a laser thermometer it was 145 on my dash.
I have a pic of my car thermometer last February it was minus 40f.

If anyone wants to see pix email me offline.

I ran all day FYBO contest at -17f with my kx3, look at my QRZ page.
Stop the fussing and get on the air!!!

I think I made it under the wire.

73
Dean K2WW

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 22:38 Michael Walker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just to expand on this and share my experiences.
>
> I have been running a remote station in Ontario for 15 years. The building
> is not heated or cooled at all.
>
> It has seen from 100F down to -20F without issue. The radios have been
> Kenwood TS480 to a Flex 6300 and during the time, the amps were either an
> SGC500 or a KPA500. The TS480 and the KPA500 come right online from the
> coldest days possible. One day it took 10 minutes of full power RTTY to
> get the amp temp to read above 0C (32F). That is how cold it was.
>
> The Flex 6300 is only engineered to 0F for the FPGA as it is not cold
> temperature hardened. My solution to that is that I don't turn off the
> Flex all winter as the FPGA generates enough heat (about 5 watts) to keep
> itself warm.
>
> The humidity ranges from 20% to 100% and it can change from that in weeks
> if not days. That past week it has been mid 90's and about the same in
> humidity.
>
> I have a few tower control boxes and for the most part, they are open at
> the bottom to let any moisture drain out should it happen to get inside as
> I have given up on total box waterproofing. I have seen too many equipment
> boxes flooded, so 1/16" holes seem to solve that. Fresh water does not
> hurt most electronics. Yes, those in Salt Water areas have bigger
> problems.
>
> I've taken a KX2 out of a car that was at -20C and used it (yes, the LCD
> was slow). That same KX2 has been taken from its pelican case at +35C and
> used it. It might have been a bit off frequency but I had no way of
> telling or hearing if it actually was.
>
> I have yet to have an issue in the past 15 years that I can relate to being
> in a non-environmentally controlled room.
>
> The same is true for our cars that see the same temperature extremes
> without issues (other than car batteries that fail). I take that back.
> On one car, my XM radio antenna would fail if it got too cold. Welcome to
> the Great White North!
>
> The short story is, the electronics we use today are well engineered and
> can handle temperature extremes and with a bit of ventilation help, they
> should work just fine.
>
> Mike va3mw
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 7:04 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > We engineered electronics packages for these types of environment, from
> > desert to arctic. Keys for success:
> > 1- Inside of housing must be designed to route any condensation away from
> > the electronics. Design ENCOURAGES condensation on normally cooler
> > enclosure surfaces, not the electronics.
> > 2- A compartment heater (actually a high wattage, low value resistor) is
> > ALWAYS energized to keep interior air temperature and temperature of
> > electronic assemblies slightly above exterior.
> > 3- Compartment must be absolutely air tight so as not to allow breathing
> as
> > atmospheric pressure changes.
> > Condensation that occurs collects on housing and drains to bottom of
> > enclosure. If cooling is required, it must be done with heat exchanger
> to
> > avoid ingress of outside air.
> > BTW, mission critical equipment was housed in nitrogen purged
> compartments,
> > including conduit which is major source of humid air flow! We required
> > that
> > equipment stored during construction must have compartment heaters
> > energized.
> > So, it can be done.
> > Ken ke4rg
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]
> >
> > On
> > Behalf Of Dave Sublette
> > Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 8:38 AM
> > To: Elecraft Discussion List <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: [Elecraft] Equipment Storage and operation
> >
> > I should start with an apology to the group. Although I stand by what I
> > said in a previous post, I feel that the way I expressed myself was in
> > violation of decorum standards for this group. I am sorry for that.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>