Err TXF on 7.077
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I just tried to make my first QSO (s/n 174 K3/100) - I get ERR TXF when
trying to transmit on 7.077 LSB at 5.0w using Proset K2, via AD-1-K adapter into front connector with Mic Sel set to FP.L Bias Selecting bypass ATU and TUNE to my SG-237 appears to work ok, an ext. Watt/SWR meter shows it transmitting and the SGC tunes ok. Must be something I'm doing, but haven't the faintest what it is -- If all is not lost, where is it? _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In fact, it gives me ERR TXF on a lot of freq I try to transmit on into a
dummy load at 5W So this has to be something stupicd I'm doing, but heaven knows what On 28/12/07 21:09, "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]> sent: > I just tried to make my first QSO (s/n 174 K3/100) - I get ERR TXF when trying > to transmit on 7.077 LSB at 5.0w using Proset K2, via AD-1-K adapter into > front connector with Mic Sel set to FP.L Bias > > Selecting bypass ATU and TUNE to my SG-237 appears to work ok, an ext. > Watt/SWR meter shows it transmitting and the SGC tunes ok. > > Must be something I'm doing, but haven't the faintest what it is -- Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members. -Pearl S. Buck, Nobelist novelist (1892-1973) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Yep - it was me - somehow, I was trying to tx LSB via a 400Hz - now I know
I set that correctly - I checked it 3 times On 28/12/07 21:20, "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]> sent: > In fact, it gives me ERR TXF on a lot of freq I try to transmit on into a > dummy load at 5W > > So this has to be something stupicd I'm doing, but heaven knows what > > > On 28/12/07 21:09, "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]> sent: > >> I just tried to make my first QSO (s/n 174 K3/100) - I get ERR TXF when >> trying >> to transmit on 7.077 LSB at 5.0w using Proset K2, via AD-1-K adapter into >> front connector with Mic Sel set to FP.L Bias >> >> Selecting bypass ATU and TUNE to my SG-237 appears to work ok, an ext. >> Watt/SWR meter shows it transmitting and the SGC tunes ok. >> >> Must be something I'm doing, but haven't the faintest what it is -- Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that! -Lewis Carroll, mathematician and writer (1832-1898) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: Err TXF on 7.077 - resolved
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On Dec 28, 2007 4:26 PM, David Ferrington, M0XDF <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yep - it was me - somehow, I was trying to tx LSB via a 400Hz - now I know > I set that correctly - I checked it 3 times > So the F in TXF must indicate a filter error. It seems that if we had a list of errors that the radio displays we might get a clue and be able to take care of some of the problems without any further help. I don't remember seeing anything about an error list. Is there one? Dave W5DHM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
RE: Re: Err TXF on 7.077 - resolved
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> So the F in TXF must indicate a filter error.
Correct. > It seems that > if we had a list of errors that the radio displays we might > get a clue and be able to take care of some of the problems > without any further help. I don't remember seeing anything > about an error list. Is there one? Yes, in the back of the Operator's Guide. However, it hasn't been updated for TXF which was added recently. 73, Ed - W0YK _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Dave Martin-2
There is on in the manual, but didn't see this in it, I'll look at the wiki
On 28/12/07 23:35, "Dave Martin" <[hidden email]> sent: > On Dec 28, 2007 4:26 PM, David Ferrington, M0XDF <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> Yep - it was me - somehow, I was trying to tx LSB via a 400Hz - now I know >> I set that correctly - I checked it 3 times >> > So the F in TXF must indicate a filter error. It seems that if we had > a list of errors that the radio displays we might get a clue and be > able to take care of some of the problems without any further help. I > don't remember seeing anything about an error list. Is there one? > > Dave W5DHM -- A person usually has two reasons for doing something: a good reason and the real reason. -Thomas Carlyle, historian and essayist (1795-1881) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: Err TXF on 7.077 - resolved
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In reply to this post by Ed Muns, W0YK
Bueno!
On Dec 28, 2007 6:48 PM, Ed Muns <[hidden email]> wrote: > > So the F in TXF must indicate a filter error. > > Correct. > > > It seems that > > if we had a list of errors that the radio displays we might > > get a clue and be able to take care of some of the problems > > without any further help. I don't remember seeing anything > > about an error list. Is there one? > > Yes, in the back of the Operator's Guide. However, it hasn't been updated > for TXF which was added recently. > > 73, > Ed - W0YK > > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Dave Martin-2
TXF is missing - see page 58 in the Owners Manual for others.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Martin" <[hidden email]> To: "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]> Cc: "elecraft" <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: Err TXF on 7.077 - resolved > On Dec 28, 2007 4:26 PM, David Ferrington, M0XDF <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> Yep - it was me - somehow, I was trying to tx LSB via a 400Hz - now I >> know >> I set that correctly - I checked it 3 times >> > So the F in TXF must indicate a filter error. It seems that if we had > a list of errors that the radio displays we might get a clue and be > able to take care of some of the problems without any further help. I > don't remember seeing anything about an error list. Is there one? > > Dave W5DHM > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by M0XDF
I got this error this morning following a suggestion from Lyle to try setting the FLx BW value to a lower value that might more closely match the filter's real bandwidth, in order to try to correct the difference between USB and LSB that I have noticed. I can understand why it might object to transmitting SSB through a 400Hz filter, but 2.4KHz ought not to give a problem.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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Maybe not, but I believe the firmware is set up to allow SSB and CW TX **ONLY** through the 2.7k 5-pole or 2.8k 8-pole. If you set 2.4 kHz it will not allow TX. This is why EVERY K3 must have either of those two filters installed and why you must not try to fool it by setting "FLx BW" lower than 2.7k. FYI, I tried using the 1.0k 8-pole on CW (before this option was locked out by firmware) and I got a *worse* key click report than when using the 2.7k. So there are good reasons behind Elecraft's lockouts. 73, Bill W4ZV |
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Perhaps so, but it creates a problem if my filter is actually a bit narrower than 2.7KHz. There was actually "2.39KHz" written on my filter PCB, as well as the sticker specifying the offset. I don't know if this is the actual bandwidth that was measured when my filter was tested. The manual doesn't say anything about this. But it's a good guess that's what it is. If I understand what Lyle told me by email yesterday correctly, if the filter is narrower than the value set in the configuration then adjusting it for preferred audio on one sideband may result in too shrill audio on the other. Altering just the offset will make the good sideband worse in order to make the other one better, which is exactly what I found. In order to make both sidebands good, I need to be able to alter the other variable, which is the bandwidth. Only I can't, because of this lockout.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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Perhaps so, but it creates a problem if my filter is actually a bit narrower than 2.7KHz. There was actually "2.39KHz" written on my filter PCB, as well as the sticker specifying the offset. I don't know if this is the actual bandwidth that was measured when my filter was tested. The manual doesn't say anything about this. But it's a good guess that's what it is. I seriously doubt it since the 5-pole has been measured at >2.9 kHz (6 dB BW). It's easy enough to check without unnecessary speculation. http://www.zerobeat.net/mediawiki/index.php/K3_Roofing_Filters 73, Bill |
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Unnecessary speculation? Unnecessary as far as you are concerned, perhaps, but not for me. The figures quoted in the Wiki weren't obtained by measuring *my* filter. And I don't have the equipment to easily check it. What else might the "2.39KHz" mean?
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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Who knows? It could mean someone's dyslexic and wrote 2.39 instead of 2.93. It would take me less time to check it than I've spent writing emails about it! All you need is a steady signal source like the XG1 since there's a meter internal to the K3 with 0.1 dB resolution. Just remember to set WIDTH to maximum (which takes the DSP filter out of the equation), set the internal meter to 0.0 dBV in the filter center, and note the frequency difference for both -6.0 dBV points. 73, Bill |
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In case some have not discovered how to use the internal meter, below are some simple instructions. This can be very useful for setting individual FLx Gain, if you want more resolution than simply using the K3 S-meter. All you need is a steady signal source like the XG1 which will give you a reasonable meter strength (S5 or higher). Turn AGC Off. Select Display = AFV and let it settle to a steady reading (value doesn't matter). Then select Display = dBV. Reading should be 0.0 dBV (+/- noise or stability of your source) Now you can compare in dBV at different frequencies (for bandwidth measurements) or different filter choices (for differential gain measurements). Don't forget to turn AGC back on afterwards! If doing BW measurements on the crystal filters, you must first set the DSP BW using WIDTH to a value greater than the XFIL BW. If you don't, you may actually measure the combination of the XFIL and DSP bandwidths. Likewise if you want to check the DSP BWs, you must be using a crystal filter with greater bandwidth than the DSP filter you're measuring. Just remember the K3 has 2 filters: Input > XFIL roofing filter > DSP WIDTH filter If you want to check either, you must set the other so it does not interfere with the overall measurement. To force a specific XFIL, you must disable all other XFILs...just remember to reset them when done! 73, Bill |
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I have barely discovered how to get it on the air yet! Thank you for this explanation. The bit about disabling the wider filters also solves the problem of how to use something like Spectrogram to see the frequency response of just the crystal filter. I didn't think of doing that. :)
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
I think this is moot when it comes to TX. As mentioned by Bill, you can ONLY use
the 2.7 or 2.8 for the TX filter in all modes except for AM, that requires the 6 kHz filter for TX (for now). Setting the BW in CONFIG for either the 2.8 or 2.7 filter is not altering the filter, rather it determines when that roofing filter turns on in relation to adjusting the DSP Filter width with the front panel DSP controls. If you set the 2.8 at 2.8 and adjust the DSP controls from say 3.0 kHz down to 2.4 kHz, the 2.8 will kick in when the DSP filter is set for 2.8. If you set the 2.8 filter BW in CONFIG as 2.6 kHz, then the 2.8 filter will not come on until the DSP BW is set to 2.6 kHz. So if you have the 2.8 set at say FL2, then you set the TX filter as FL2 for all modes except AM. Setting the BW in CONFIG to a lesser value should not affect TX. ------------------------- 73, Greg - AB7R Whidbey Island WA NA-065 K3#0009 On Thu Jan 17 6:04 , G4ILO sent: > > > >Bill W4ZV wrote: >> >> I seriously doubt it since the 5-pole has been measured at >2.9 kHz (6 dB >> BW). It's easy enough to check without unnecessary speculation. >> >Unnecessary speculation? Unnecessary as far as you are concerned, perhaps, >but not for me. The figures quoted in the Wiki weren't obtained by measuring >*my* filter. And I don't have the equipment to easily check it. What else >might the "2.39KHz" mean? > >----- >Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: 222 >G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com >Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf >-- >View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Err-TXF-on-7.077- >Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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OK. If that's the case, we were barking up the wrong tree here.
I've just done Spectrogram plots of band noise through the 2.7KHz filter with the DSP opened up to max. They are at www.g4ilo.com/images/usb.gif and www.g4ilo.com/images/lsb.gif if anyone is interested to look at them. They look pretty similar except the skirt widens out at about 20db down on the HF side, and there is more high frequencies getting through on LSB than USB, which I can hear. The bandwidth at -6dB down certainly looks wider than 2.4KHz. I can't see a difference that explains why LSB and USB don't sound the same to me when monitored on-air. I've monitored the transmission using both the K2 (which isn't really a good tool for this since its opposite sideband responses aren't identical either) and the FT-817 which has a fairly wide standard SSB filter and sounds the same on either sideband. -- Julian, G4ILO QRP Station: Elecraft K3 #222; K2 #392 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com On 17/01/2008, Greg - AB7R <[hidden email]> wrote: > I think this is moot when it comes to TX. As mentioned by Bill, you can ONLY use > the 2.7 or 2.8 for the TX filter in all modes except for AM, that requires the 6 > kHz filter for TX (for now). Setting the BW in CONFIG for either the 2.8 or 2.7 > filter is not altering the filter, rather it determines when that roofing filter > turns on in relation to adjusting the DSP Filter width with the front panel DSP > controls. If you set the 2.8 at 2.8 and adjust the DSP controls from say 3.0 kHz > down to 2.4 kHz, the 2.8 will kick in when the DSP filter is set for 2.8. > If you set the 2.8 filter BW in CONFIG as 2.6 kHz, then the 2.8 filter will not > come on until the DSP BW is set to 2.6 kHz. > > So if you have the 2.8 set at say FL2, then you set the TX filter as FL2 for all > modes except AM. Setting the BW in CONFIG to a lesser value should not affect TX. > > > ------------------------- > 73, > Greg - AB7R > Whidbey Island WA > NA-065 > K3#0009 > > On Thu Jan 17 6:04 , G4ILO sent: > > > > > > > > >Bill W4ZV wrote: > >> > >> I seriously doubt it since the 5-pole has been measured at >2.9 kHz (6 dB > >> BW). It's easy enough to check without unnecessary speculation. > >> > >Unnecessary speculation? Unnecessary as far as you are concerned, perhaps, > >but not for me. The figures quoted in the Wiki weren't obtained by measuring > >*my* filter. And I don't have the equipment to easily check it. What else > >might the "2.39KHz" mean? > > > >----- > >Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: 222 > >G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com > >Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf > >-- > >View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Err-TXF-on-7.077- > tp14532160p14919276.html > >Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Elecraft mailing list > >Post to: [hidden email] > >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by Bill W4ZV
What am I doing wrong. When I plug in my stereo earphones I expect to hear
the special effects that others have been noting. It sounds like plain old fashioned stereo to me .. no special effects. This is while listening to CW or SSB. I have speaker set to 1. Speaker + Phones is OFF. I have tried two different sets of stereo phones and tried all of the choices in the AFX menu (delay 1 to 5, and b in). Maybe my head is just hard wired to ignore the effects. Don K7FJ K3 #195 _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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> What am I doing wrong. When I plug in my stereo earphones I
> expect to hear the special effects that others have been > noting. It sounds like plain old fashioned stereo to me .. > no special effects. This is while listening to CW or SSB. > > I have speaker set to 1. Speaker + Phones is OFF. I have > tried two different sets of stereo phones and tried all of > the choices in the AFX menu (delay 1 to 5, and b in). Set SPKR = 2. 73, Ed - W0YK _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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