FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...

[Guy Hamblen]

Here's a link to information about an FCC ID#.  St Lucia
Telecommuncations Bureau is asking  for this information prior to
bringing my transceiver into the country.

"An FCC ID has 2 elements. The first is a three-character Grantee Code
which usually begins with an alphabetic character and does not contain
1s or 0s. The FCC permanently assigns this code to a company for
authorization of radio frequency equipment."  from
http://www.tech-faq.com/fcc-id.shtml.

My Yaesu handheld has a FCC ID on the case under the battery. I may be
mistaken, but isn't this # part of the Type Acceptance process for any
transceiver?

As I find the answer, I'll post to the board.  Thanks, Guy, N7UN/2


> From: Phil Kane

>  AFAIK there is no such thing as "FCC ID" for a transceiver of
>  this sort but check with Elecraft to see if they have ever run
>  into this.

An amateur bands-only transceiver capable of operating strictly within
Part
97 spectrum is exempt from FCC importation certification/authorization.
See
47 CFR 2.1204(a)(2).  This rule is further exemplified under ET Docket
No.
03-108; FCC 07-66. "Cognitive Radio Technologies and Software Defined
Radios."

Paul, W9AC
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[P.B. Christensen]

> As I find the answer, I'll post to the board.  Thanks, Guy, N7UN/2

The answer is that an FCC ID number may, or may not be affixed to your Part
97 transceiver.  With the exception of amplifiers under part 97.315, Part 97
transceivers need no certification/authorization, even if they are imported
into the U.S.  This should not be confused with certification under Part 15
where a "personal use" exemption often applies.

In St. Lucia, you'll need to demonstrate that your transceiver is exempt
from certification/authorization.  Your job is convince the respective
county's customs officers that amateur-band transceivers require no FCC
certification/authorization.  If an external RF amplifier is being taken,
then be prepared to show evidence of the FCC ID number to both U.S. and
foreign customs agents.

Upon re-entry into the U.S., be prepared to show CBP officers a copy of Part
97 and 47 CFR 2.1204.  I would also bring a copy of ET Docket No. 03-108
which DOES specifically state that Part 97 transceivers are exempt from
certification/authorization.  Otherwise, you will not find a rule within
Part 97 that specifically excludes certification/authorization for amateur
transceivers.  It's the absence of an affirmative rule that presents
difficulties when an officer states: "Fine, but show me the rule."

Paul, W9AC.

----- Original Message -----
From: "GUY HAMBLEN" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:53 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...

> Here's a link to information about an FCC ID#.  St Lucia
> Telecommuncations Bureau is asking  for this information prior to
> bringing my transceiver into the country.
>
> "An FCC ID has 2 elements. The first is a three-character Grantee Code
> which usually begins with an alphabetic character and does not contain
> 1s or 0s. The FCC permanently assigns this code to a company for
> authorization of radio frequency equipment."  from
> http://www.tech-faq.com/fcc-id.shtml.
>
> My Yaesu handheld has a FCC ID on the case under the battery. I may be
> mistaken, but isn't this # part of the Type Acceptance process for any
> transceiver?
>
> As I find the answer, I'll post to the board.  Thanks, Guy, N7UN/2
>
>
>> From: Phil Kane
>
>>  AFAIK there is no such thing as "FCC ID" for a transceiver of
>>  this sort but check with Elecraft to see if they have ever run
>>  into this.
>
> An amateur bands-only transceiver capable of operating strictly within
> Part
> 97 spectrum is exempt from FCC importation certification/authorization.
> See
> 47 CFR 2.1204(a)(2).  This rule is further exemplified under ET Docket
> No.
> 03-108; FCC 07-66. "Cognitive Radio Technologies and Software Defined
> Radios."
>
> Paul, W9AC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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[Bob Naumann W5OV]

Before anyone travelling to the Caribbean "gets prepared" and worries about
showing of all of these documents, keep in mind that no one cares about
someone transporting their own amateur radio through customs. Their concern
is catching stuff that is going to be sold - and they want to collect the
duty on it.

Have your FCC license with you and the owner's manual for the radio - just
in case. It is your personal property, and you will not be leaving it in the
country you are taking it to. It is of no more concern than if you were
bringing a camera with you. All that said, I have been through customs
dozens of times going to Antigua and back through U.S. customs both in
Puerto Rico and in Miami and not once did anyone ask me for any FCC id
numbers or anything like that - either direction.

Act like there's no reason to be concerned (which there really isn't - since
you are not importing the stuff to sell it) and pay one of the porters at
the airport to take all of your bags on one of their carts - including any
radio equipment - right from baggage claim area, through customs, and then
outside the airport. Do not volunteer any information you are not asked for
or mention ham radio equipment unless you are asked about it.

You should not take your radio or amplifier in the original cartons. Get
them inside of normal looking suitcases if at all possible. Look like a
tourist - not a freight transporter.

73,

Bob W5OV / V26O


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Christensen
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:44 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...

> As I find the answer, I'll post to the board.  Thanks, Guy, N7UN/2

The answer is that an FCC ID number may, or may not be affixed to your Part
97 transceiver.  With the exception of amplifiers under part 97.315, Part 97

transceivers need no certification/authorization, even if they are imported
into the U.S.  This should not be confused with certification under Part 15
where a "personal use" exemption often applies.

In St. Lucia, you'll need to demonstrate that your transceiver is exempt
from certification/authorization.  Your job is convince the respective
county's customs officers that amateur-band transceivers require no FCC
certification/authorization.  If an external RF amplifier is being taken,
then be prepared to show evidence of the FCC ID number to both U.S. and
foreign customs agents.

Upon re-entry into the U.S., be prepared to show CBP officers a copy of Part

97 and 47 CFR 2.1204.  I would also bring a copy of ET Docket No. 03-108
which DOES specifically state that Part 97 transceivers are exempt from
certification/authorization.  Otherwise, you will not find a rule within
Part 97 that specifically excludes certification/authorization for amateur
transceivers.  It's the absence of an affirmative rule that presents
difficulties when an officer states: "Fine, but show me the rule."

Paul, W9AC.

----- Original Message -----
From: "GUY HAMBLEN" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:53 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...

> Here's a link to information about an FCC ID#.  St Lucia
> Telecommuncations Bureau is asking  for this information prior to
> bringing my transceiver into the country.
>
> "An FCC ID has 2 elements. The first is a three-character Grantee Code
> which usually begins with an alphabetic character and does not contain
> 1s or 0s. The FCC permanently assigns this code to a company for
> authorization of radio frequency equipment."  from
> http://www.tech-faq.com/fcc-id.shtml.
>
> My Yaesu handheld has a FCC ID on the case under the battery. I may be
> mistaken, but isn't this # part of the Type Acceptance process for any
> transceiver?
>
> As I find the answer, I'll post to the board.  Thanks, Guy, N7UN/2
>
>
>> From: Phil Kane
>
>>  AFAIK there is no such thing as "FCC ID" for a transceiver of
>>  this sort but check with Elecraft to see if they have ever run
>>  into this.
>
> An amateur bands-only transceiver capable of operating strictly within
> Part
> 97 spectrum is exempt from FCC importation certification/authorization.
> See
> 47 CFR 2.1204(a)(2).  This rule is further exemplified under ET Docket
> No.
> 03-108; FCC 07-66. "Cognitive Radio Technologies and Software Defined
> Radios."
>
> Paul, W9AC
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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[Alan Bloom-2]

On Sun, 2009-10-25 at 19:44 -0400, Paul Christensen wrote:
...
>
> Upon re-entry into the U.S., be prepared to show CBP officers a copy of Part
> 97 and 47 CFR 2.1204.  I would also bring a copy of ET Docket No. 03-108
> which DOES specifically state that Part 97 transceivers are exempt from
> certification/authorization.  

Paul - I searched the following document (ET Docket No. 03-108) for the
words "amateur" and "97" but couldn't find anything in it that exempts
part 97 transceivers from anything.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-05-57A1.pdf

Could you give me a pointer to where in the document it says that?

Also, in 47 CFR 2.1204,

http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title47/47-1.0.1.1.3.10.221.4.html

the closest thing to an exemption for ham radios I could find was:

   "Three or fewer radio receivers, computers, or other unintentional
   radiators as defined in part 15 of this chapter, are being imported
   for the individual's personal use and are not intended for sale."

But that doesn't seem to apply to an amateur transceiver (nothing about
transmitters).

Thanks,

Alan N1AL


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[P.B. Christensen]

Alan Bloom:

> Paul - I searched the following document (ET Docket No. 03-108) for the
> words "amateur" and "97" but couldn't find anything in it that exempts
> part 97 transceivers from anything.  Could you give me a pointer to where
> in the document it says that?

See footnote 51 of the R&O, beginning with "The transmitters in question
were marketed as amateur equipment, which is normally exempt from a
certification requirement..."  Also see paragraph 62 with resepct to SDRs
used in the amateur service.  Specifically...

"In the Notice, we proposed to exempt manufactured software defined radios
that are designed to operate solely in amateur bands from any mandatory
declaration and certification requirements, provided the equipment
incorporates features in hardware to prevent operation outside of amateur
bands...Therefore, we decline to adopt any new regulations for amateur
transceivers or D/A converters at this time."

> Also, in 47 CFR 2.1204,
> the closest thing to an exemption for ham radios I could find was:
>   "Three or fewer radio receivers, computers, or other unintentional
>   radiators as defined in part 15 of this chapter, are being imported
>   for the individual's personal use and are not intended for sale."

That's the Part 15 "personal use exception," I already commented on and does
not apply to Part 97 transceivers.  Alan, look again at Sec. 2.1204(a)(2)
concerning certification and importation:

"Sec. 2.1204  Import conditions.

(a) Radio frequency devices may be imported only if one or more of
these conditions are met:
(1) The radio frequency device has been issued an equipment
authorization by the FCC.
(2) The radio frequency device is not required to have an equipment
authorization and the device complies with FCC technical administrative
regulations."

Thus, 47 CFR 2.1204(a)(2) applies to amateur-band only transceivers.  Since
the FCC does not require certification/authorization of amateur-band
transceivers, this subsection on importation & certification exemption is
invoked, provided that the equipment otherwise complies with FCC technical
administrative regulations.

Paul, W9AC


.

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[Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU]

Robert W5OV wrote:
> Before anyone travelling to the Caribbean "gets prepared" and worries about
> showing of all of these documents, keep in mind that no one cares about
> someone transporting their own amateur radio through customs. Their concern
> is catching stuff that is going to be sold - and they want to collect the
> duty on it.
>  
I was once required to post a bond on my K3 when taking it to a
Caribbean country.
They accepted all the cash I had, which wasn't as much as the percentage
they wanted.
When I left, I got to the airport an extra hour ahead, and received my
original cash as a refund.

Leigh/WA5ZNU

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[AC7AC]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[P.B. Christensen]

> Before anyone travelling to the Caribbean "gets prepared" and worries
> about
> showing of all of these documents, keep in mind that no one cares about
> someone transporting their own amateur radio through customs.

Until one day when you meet that one overzealous customs officer who says:
"You can enter, but your equipment can't."  Carrying a few extra documents
along with your other paper credentials may make a significant difference,
depending on the customs officer you get on any given day.

Paul, W9AC

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[P.B. Christensen]

> Faced with such a question for any equipment that didn't show a number, I
> would insert "Not Applicable" or "None".

Ron, good feedback.  I probably wouldn't state "None" as it may give the
impression that there should be an FCC ID number when "Not Applicable" would
be more appropriate.  Then, be prepared to present the supplemental
documents if a customs officer forces the issue.

Paul, W9AC

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[Jack Smith-6]

Another possibility is to obtain a carnet. (pronounced car-nay) A carnet
is a document allowing temporary importation of equipment without
payment of duties and taxes, where the goods are only to  be in the
country temporarily.

When I was active in the cellular radio telecommunications consulting
business, we hauled specialized test equipment all around Europe and
Asia with carnet documents without much of a problem. When leaving the
country you present the carnet and the equipment to establish that the
equipment has, in fact, left the country.


Jack K8ZOA



Paul Christensen wrote:

>> Before anyone travelling to the Caribbean "gets prepared" and worries
>> about
>> showing of all of these documents, keep in mind that no one cares about
>> someone transporting their own amateur radio through customs.
>>    
>
> Until one day when you meet that one overzealous customs officer who says:
> "You can enter, but your equipment can't."  Carrying a few extra documents
> along with your other paper credentials may make a significant difference,
> depending on the customs officer you get on any given day.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>  

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[Bob Naumann W5OV]

Leigh,

How did they determine you had something that needed duty collected on it?
As you found, they did not ask for FCC certification - it's always the
money. We had the same problem in Antigua until we caught on to the "don't
ask, don't tell" policy and using the porters to handle your bags.

As you found, they wanted to make sure that you were not selling it in
country and them not collecting the duty they are "entitled" to.

The best thing to do is to keep a low profile, be a tourist and not draw any
attention. Again, no cardboard boxes - just normal suitcases that look like
they are full of clothes.

The customs agents in these little countries are not in place to enforce
telecomm laws - it is to collect duty.

None of this is not to say that it is impossible to have a problem - the
point is that if you go looking for trouble with these guys, you're going to
find it. If you don't say anything, just be a vacationer and be lazy - let
the local porters take your luggage (it's worth the few bucks you pay them)
and you should slip through without difficulty.

Relax and have fun.

73,

Bob W5OV / V26O



-----Original Message-----
From: Leigh L. Klotz, Jr WA5ZNU [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 11:59 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Robert Naumann
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...

Robert W5OV wrote:
> Before anyone travelling to the Caribbean "gets prepared" and worries
about
> showing of all of these documents, keep in mind that no one cares about
> someone transporting their own amateur radio through customs. Their
concern
> is catching stuff that is going to be sold - and they want to collect the
> duty on it.
>  
I was once required to post a bond on my K3 when taking it to a
Caribbean country.
They accepted all the cash I had, which wasn't as much as the percentage
they wanted.
When I left, I got to the airport an extra hour ahead, and received my
original cash as a refund.

Leigh/WA5ZNU

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[hf4me]

I haven't tried this and probalby won't BUT what "other documentation" are
you referring to?  What might they be looking for?  Just what is it they
might be questioning?

Thanks es 73, de Jim KG0KP

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Christensen" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FCC ID & DOC # for the K2...

>> Faced with such a question for any equipment that didn't show a number, I
>> would insert "Not Applicable" or "None".
>
> Ron, good feedback.  I probably wouldn't state "None" as it may give the
> impression that there should be an FCC ID number when "Not Applicable"
> would
> be more appropriate.  Then, be prepared to present the supplemental
> documents if a customs officer forces the issue.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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>

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